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Author Topic: Possibility for peace?
Gir Draxon
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posted 26 April 2003 08:04 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Palestinians to vote on new cabinet Tuesday ahead of peace plan presentation

New Palestinian leadership, a peace proposal... could this be the answer to Israeli-Palestinian peace?

Stay tuned...


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 26 April 2003 08:17 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Not according to this:
New Palestinian Leadership May Dim Hopes for Peace

This article may have drawn heavily on this , which appeared on the Gush Shalom site.

quote:
Abu-Mazen and his colleagues...have no solid base among their own people, but do have connections with powerful players, most importantly the United States and Israel, with all that entails.

From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 26 April 2003 11:30 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well Al I would prefer to hope that Abu Mazen is an agent for peace. Surely you would as well?
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 27 April 2003 01:22 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I suppose it all depends on the definition of "peace," and who gets to do the defining.
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Bubbles
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posted 27 April 2003 01:35 AM      Profile for Bubbles        Edit/Delete Post
I suspect that so long the Americans are in Iraq there is little hope for peace. They might come to some type of agreement (under duress) but that might not lead to rights the Palestinians aspire to.

As long as there is pressure from the leadership of the Americans, Isrealis and the Palestinians nothing will get settled as far as equitable rights is concerned. And without fair play there is no hope for peace. The military, political and economic powers are too incompatible.

[ 27 April 2003: Message edited by: Bubbles ]


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satana
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posted 27 April 2003 03:27 AM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Agent for "peace"? Abu Mazen is one of the most corrupt members of the PA, not to mention a Holocaust denier, as well. Just goes to show how low Zionists are willing go today to further their racist agenda.

[ 27 April 2003: Message edited by: satana ]


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al-Qa'bong
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posted 27 April 2003 03:46 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
It was Abbas' idea to take the dusty village of Abu Dis, rename it "Al Quds" and then to hand the entire city of Jerusalem over to Israel. Abbas is frequently celebrated by such figures as Ha'aretz commentator Akiva Eldar for his apparent willingness to repudiate Palestinian refugees' right of return.

Why do the names "Quisling" and "Seyss-Inquart" spring to mind when reading about this guy?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 27 April 2003 04:05 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I suspect that so long the Americans are in Iraq there is little hope for peace. They might come to some type of agreement (under duress) but that might not lead to rights the Palestinians aspire to.
As long as there is pressure from the leadership of the Americans, Isrealis and the Palestinians nothing will get settled as far as equitable rights is concerned. And without fair play there is no hope for peace. The military, political and economic powers are too incompatible.

Umm what do you think is more important- stopping the bloodshed or the complete abolishment of Israel? "Peace" just isn't enough for you- it must not be a comprimising peace. No, only a complete Palestinian takeover of all of "Israel" will do.

If this is not the way you think, than what IS "fair play", "equitable rights" etc. as they apply to this situation? If not the complete elimnation of Israel, what SHOULD take place?


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DaddySno
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posted 27 April 2003 12:43 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Santana, when in doubt, pull out the ole race card.
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Mishei
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posted 27 April 2003 12:55 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Indeed Satana is correct in claiming that Abu Mazen did in the early 80's engage in Holocaust denial. However as I understand it he has since recanted. See this exerpt from the ADL;

Tragically Holocaust denial has become a tool in the fight against Israel fuelled by some Western bigots like Ernst Zundel who was one of the first to try to make common cause with Muslim extremists on this matter.

quote:
Mahmoud Abbas (abu Mazen)

In 1983, in an early public example of denial from an indigenous Middle Eastern source, a Palestinian named Mahmoud Abbas (also known as Abu Mazen) wrote The Other Side: The Secret Relationship between Nazism and the Zionist Movement. In the book, Abbas suggested that the six million figure was "peddled" by the Jews but that in fact "the Jewish victims may number six million or be far fewer, even fewer than one million." In 1995, reports of the book's existence reached the Western press, largely because of the public prominence that Abbas had attained as the chief PLO architect of the Oslo peace accords and cosigner of the 1993 Declaration of Principles in Washington. The California-based Simon Wiesenthal Center publicly called for Abbas to clarify his position on the Holocaust, but no clear statement was forthcoming. In an interview with the Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv, Abbas tried to frame the issue in terms of realpolitik. "When I wrote The Other Side...we were at war with Israel," Abbas said. "Today I would not have made such remarks...Today there is peace and what I write from now on must help advance the peace process."


ADL on Muslim Holocaust denial


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Mandos
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posted 27 April 2003 01:27 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes. It has become a tool. I have written repeatedly on this matter. It is only a tool because...there is a fight against Israel...
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satana
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posted 28 April 2003 05:16 AM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
People complain how corrupt Arab leaders are. Now you should know why. Israel along with the US and Europe create and support them. They don't represent their people and any "peace" plans they sign are meaningless. This "peace" will only be enforced on the people of the region through oppression.

Real, just, and lasting peace must be a peace between people not corrupt, unrepresentative politicians. Peace has no real meaning until the human rights of all people involved are respected. This can't happen until these people can look at each other as equals. But, equality and democracy in the middle-east will mean the end of Israel as an exclusively Jewish state.

Until then, "peace" will mean more oppression, and prolonging the conflict indefinitely.


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DaddySno
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posted 28 April 2003 12:30 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
People complain how corrupt Arab leaders are. Now you should know why. Israel along with the US and Europe create and support them.

So Israel created the dictators in the middle east ? That's a new one.


From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Scout
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posted 28 April 2003 12:32 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
along with the US and Europe

Did you miss that part on purpose?

Troll.


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DaddySno
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posted 28 April 2003 12:39 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No.We all know that the US and Europe had a hand in planting dictators in the middle east, for whatever reasons. How about you explaining to me how Israel created the dictators in the middle east.

Troll.


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libertyman
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posted 28 April 2003 12:55 PM      Profile for libertyman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Anyone remeber a time in the late 60`s?When the Jewish state was attacked from all sides? What would you do?
If the Palastiane stopped homicide attacks there would be peace.If Israel stopped incursans.The homicide attacks would continue.what does that tell you?

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Scout
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posted 28 April 2003 12:58 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Two trolls, backing each other up, thread after thread. How cute.
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libertyman
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posted 28 April 2003 01:03 PM      Profile for libertyman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
what? its not true what i said?you know it is sir,
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Scout
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posted 28 April 2003 01:07 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Who are you calling sir?
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libertyman
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posted 28 April 2003 01:16 PM      Profile for libertyman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I am calling you sir,giving you respect that you are not giving me, as everyone can see.So you call me name is fine. I will still show respect.But your answer is to call names and not repond to the facts then that is fine too.That shows how much your argument dosen`t hold water
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DaddySno
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posted 28 April 2003 01:37 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Listen Scout, I don't know who this liberty guy is, so I'm just asking you to answer my question. How did Israel create dictatorships in the middle east ?
From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Scout
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posted 28 April 2003 01:47 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, I'm not a sir, a fact you could have verified quite easily yourself. I also think you have my arguments and someone else’s confused. I simply called you a troll. If that is name calling, well boo hoo. You are behaving like a troll. You cast racist aspersion on the entire Palestinian population. Racist comments like that violate babbles policy. You are in fact a troll.

quote:
If Israel stopped incursans.The homicide attacks would continue.what does that tell you?

Racist little troll.

And Sno, I didn't say they did, I asked why a good portion of the post was ignored. I asked you to clarify your post. I never made any assertion about who created the dictators, that was another poster.

As for calling me a troll. :rolleyes


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DaddySno
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posted 28 April 2003 02:27 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So did I clarify it for you ? Actually, don't even bother answering.

[ 28 April 2003: Message edited by: DaddySno ]


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DrConway
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posted 28 April 2003 04:01 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Didn't Egypt have one piddly little division in the Sinai Peninsula in 1967?
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
satana
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posted 28 April 2003 06:18 PM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
DaddySno, I said creating "Arab leaders", which is general, and does not neccesarily mean setting up dictatorships.
Two relevant examples: Abu Mazen for Palestinians and Ahmad Chalabi for Iraqis. Both corrupt and unpopular. Both supported and promoted by powerful people in the Israeli government to "lead their people". The only way these people can control a country is through oppression.

libertyman, attacks would continue because Israel is the problem.


From: far away | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
libertyman
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posted 28 April 2003 06:39 PM      Profile for libertyman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You cast racist aspersion on the entire Palestinian population. Racist comments like that violate babbles policy. You are in fact a troll.

quote:If Israel stopped incursans.The homicide attacks would continue.what does that tell you?


if you going to quote ,quote the entire statment.dont just pick a part of it.


oh and Isreal is the probelm how? tell me how?"
If palestine stopped the attacks there would be peace".oh thats the quote someone forgot to add in .btw


From: New york | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
libertyman
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posted 28 April 2003 06:44 PM      Profile for libertyman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
calling me a racist? thats a horable thing to say to someone...If thats the case then you a racist to Israel...would that be the case? or your making a double standard? I will answer that . Yes you are making one
From: New york | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 28 April 2003 07:20 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Didn't Egypt have one piddly little division in the Sinai Peninsula in 1967?

C'mon, Dr. C. Get with the mythology willya?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
DaddySno
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posted 28 April 2003 08:53 PM      Profile for DaddySno     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Two relevant examples: Abu Mazen for Palestinians and Ahmad Chalabi for Iraqis. Both corrupt and unpopular. Both supported and promoted by powerful people in the Israeli government to "lead their people". The only way these people can control a country is through oppression.

Didn't Abu Mazen get picked by the oldest terrorist in the world aka Yasser Arafat ?How are these new leaders oppresing their people ? Did you want Yasser and Saddam still in power ? Anyways, these aren't relevant examples. Even if they were, give me some other examples throughout the middle east. How did Israel set up the dictatorships in Syria ? Egypt ? Saudi Arabia ? Yemen ? Explain that to me. I'd love to read your answer.

[ 28 April 2003: Message edited by: DaddySno ]


From: Potissauga | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 28 April 2003 09:40 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
*tossing breadcrumbs*

quote:
Didn't Abu Mazen get picked by the oldest terrorist in the world aka Yasser Arafat ?

No.

Where did you get that idea, or are all Arabs simply brothers in terrorism?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged

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