babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics

Topic Closed  Topic Closed


  
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » archived babble   » the middle east and central asia   » Syrian colonial occupation of Lebanon...

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Syrian colonial occupation of Lebanon...
Saladin
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3663

posted 10 April 2003 04:52 PM      Profile for Saladin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Syrian occupation of Lebanon

With focus on American colonial occupation of Iraq, has everyone forgotten Lebannon?

Syria invaded Lebanon over ten years ago and the occupation continues to this day.


From: damascus | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 10 April 2003 05:20 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually Saladin, as I recall there was thread about this a while ago and few here were moved. It seems that as long as it's not Israel "occupying" land then it is of little importance.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 10 April 2003 05:38 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Agree with Saladin that the Syrian occupation continues (despite the more than questionable source of the report). But Lebanese I know who have returned there seem to think the Syrians are keeping a fairly low profile. There is far more democracy and a much freer press in Lebanon than in Syria itself (admittedly, not difficult ) That might be one reason the occupation is getting less press than before. It used to get a lot, at least in Le Monde, and certainly in Montreal, where there is a very large Lebanese community.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 10 April 2003 07:57 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Some Lebanese think that Lebanon has always been a part of Syria.
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 10 April 2003 08:21 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Indeed. Another of those colonial divisions. Just talking about the Syrian regime, which was brutal indeed. I'm not as up on the current situation with the new leader, but I don't believe the human rights situation has improved much.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2230

posted 10 April 2003 11:25 PM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The thing is most of the borders in the region are artificial and go contrary to traditional cleavages, whether it's the decision by the British to divide Kuwait from Iraq so they could grant Iraq independence while hanging on to oil rich Kuwait as a colony into the 1960s, or the division of Syria and Labanon, or the carving out of the Gulf states etc.
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Saladin
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3663

posted 14 April 2003 04:39 PM      Profile for Saladin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
...as I recall there was thread about this a while ago and few here were moved. It seems that as long as it's not Israel "occupying" land then it is of little importance.

It is very frustrating. You are correct, if Israel or the USA are the invaders then everyone is upset. Then it is all hate hate hate. If it is another country then few care.

People here do not like to be reminded of this fact. Why is that?


From: damascus | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
CyberNomad
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2926

posted 14 April 2003 05:57 PM      Profile for CyberNomad     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
People here do not like to be reminded of this fact. Why is that?

Could it be that's because Truth hurts? (And no one likes pain?)

From: St. Catharines ON | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 14 April 2003 06:02 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well some here sadly see the Syrians as the good guys and anything Israel does as evil incarnate.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Geneva
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3808

posted 16 April 2003 06:47 AM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
our friend Tom:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/16/opinion/16FRIE.html

key phrase: "" the second-best reason for regime change in Syria: it could set Lebanon free. Lebanon is the only Arab country to have had a functioning democracy. It is also the Arab country that is most hard-wired for globalization. Trading and entrepreneurship are in Lebanon's DNA. Lebanon should be leading the Arab world into globalization, but it has not been able to play its natural Hong Kong role because Syria has choked the life out of the place.

Iraq is the only Arab country that combines oil, water, brains and secularism. Lebanon has water, brains, secularism and a liberal tradition. The Palestinians have a similar potential. Which is why I favor "triple self-determination." If Lebanon, Iraq and a Palestinian state could all be made into functioning, decent, free-market, self-governing societies, it would be enough to tilt the entire Arab world onto a modernizing track.""

[ 16 April 2003: Message edited by: Geneva ]


From: um, well | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2230

posted 16 April 2003 11:47 AM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Interesting revisionism. As I recall, Lebanon's "functioning democracy" collapsed circa 1975 because of factional disputes between competing ethnic/religious groups. The NYT makes it sound as if Lebanese democracy failed because of Syria when, in fact, it's the failure of Lebanese democracy and the resulting civil war that provided Syria and Israel with a pretext to invade in order to "restore stability" etc.
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 16 April 2003 12:00 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Two things: to discuss Syria's occupation of part of Lebanon without discussing Israel's occupation of part of Syria is hypocritical to the max. Tjus Rumsfeld and not surprising for most of the group here.

But with that said, Syria has no reason to continue the occupation.

Also, I have said that some here have more tolerance for cultural bigotry than others. Saladin is an important historical figure in Arab history. Yet, when someone appropriates that name to begin an obviously one-sided thread, there are band-wagon jumpers of the usual suspects but not a word of complaint.

Imagine if someone used the name Moses to launch attacks on Israel. Would there be the same level of acceptance?


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
CyberNomad
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2926

posted 16 April 2003 12:34 PM      Profile for CyberNomad     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just curious:
quote:
Saladin is an important historical figure in Arab history.

Saladin was Kurdish. Saladin was Muslim. Kurds are non-Arabs ...

From: St. Catharines ON | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
cynic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2857

posted 16 April 2003 04:17 PM      Profile for cynic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Well some here sadly see the Syrians as the good guys and anything Israel does as evil incarnate.

Name three.


From: Calgary, unfortunately | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Saladin
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3663

posted 16 April 2003 05:27 PM      Profile for Saladin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
...obviously one-sided thread, there are band-wagon jumpers of the usual suspects but not a word of complaint.

Wingnut, how many sides are there to an illegal and immoral occupation?

From: damascus | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 16 April 2003 08:55 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Let's examine the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights and you tell me?

CyberNomad, it may be true that Saladin was a Kurd, but he is still an important figure in Arab history and culture. Kurds and Arabs did not always suffer your brand of sectarianism.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
CyberNomad
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2926

posted 16 April 2003 10:50 PM      Profile for CyberNomad     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
WingNut, you are really scraping the gutter's bottom. Sleep well.
From: St. Catharines ON | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 16 April 2003 11:23 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So I know that Saladin is baiting, but I bite:


So it really doesn't matter what "Saladin" thinks of Syria and Lebanon. Is Syria a major issue for most Lebanese? Is Israel? If the Lebanese find Israel to be a greater threat than Syria, even post-withdrawal, then I guess we don't really need to pay too much attention to Syrian activity in Lebanon. It's not like that border isn't rather fake, anyway. And I'm willing to bet that most Lebanese are more opposed to Israel than Syria.


Of course, the point is that "Saladin" and his buddies want to draw some kind of parallel between Israel's occupation of Lebanon and Syrian activity in Lebanon. But that parallel is false. The Arab world, even the Lebanese are way more concerned about Israel, and that's what matters.


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 17 April 2003 02:55 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Lebanese Minister of State seems rather concerned about israel and the USA
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Youngfox
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3750

posted 17 April 2003 03:09 AM      Profile for Youngfox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

Mishei's posts have put me onto the trail of the more silent partner in the N.W.O. conspiracy.Thanks for the inspiration, M.

Some interesting articles including "Jews against Zionism" by Rabbi Goldstein


Boycott Israel Campaign


From: - | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 17 April 2003 07:47 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
WingNut, you are really scraping the gutter's bottom. Sleep well.

You and your friend who calls himself Saladin are excellent guides.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 17 April 2003 08:17 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
CN, I'm so tired of your cheap personal shots every time someone disagrees with you. Could you please knock it off?

And "I know you are but what am I?" isn't all that great either, WingNut.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 17 April 2003 11:32 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Well some here sadly see the Syrians as the good guys

Funny. U.S. immigration/national security people seemed to be thinking, last fall, that the Syrians were at least the useful guys -- when they sent Canadian citizen Maher Arar back there for, ah, interrogation? -- instead of allowing him to continue home to Canada.

Seems to me that the U.S. administration is rather more compromised in its position on Syria than any babbler I can think of -- except, of course, those who are apologists for the U.S. admin.

Bring Maher Arar home!


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 17 April 2003 11:36 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Youngfox this shit you posted is older than history. The "Neturi Carta" is a thoroughly disgraced extreme religious sect that no one but you and couple of your friends on this board trot out from time to time to try and denigrate Israel. It is as always crap and the fact that you would pull this anti-Zionist rabbit from your hat of tricks is no real surprise.

As for the "boycott Israel" campaign, I must say it is similar to the campaigns waged by the extreme right who wish that the world would boycott anything Jewish (Israel the main culprit). If that is the company you wish to keep go ahead.

[ 17 April 2003: Message edited by: Mishei ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Youngfox
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3750

posted 17 April 2003 12:15 PM      Profile for Youngfox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Again, thanks for the bait and label but I tire of your myopic compartmentalization. I shall continue my search for rational groups and people (jewish and otherwise) who seek to expose Israel's criminal antics in league with the American neocons and the corporations who give their murderous regime support and legitimacy. I believe that while boycotting the American pirates one cannot ignore their partners.

[ 17 April 2003: Message edited by: Youngfox ]


From: - | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 17 April 2003 12:33 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ah yes hate America hate Israel campaign know it well...
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Youngfox
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3750

posted 17 April 2003 12:40 PM      Profile for Youngfox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
M, your generalizations tend to overshadow the occasionally insightful commentary you offer. You may consider any future reference to America or Israel as a reference to their murderous regimes.(unless otherwise specified)
I am sorry if I was not clear enough for you to see from up there on that moral high ground. Generalizations undermine us all and I shall endeavor to be more concise in future postings.

From: - | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 17 April 2003 12:46 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Younfox, while I am no particular fan of the Republican party. the United States is not a hateful regime. It is not perfect for sure but your hateful diatribe against it should be saved for the real despotic monsters of this earth.

Where is your rage for, Mugabe or the "governemnets of, China, Libya, Syria, Congo....? I wonder


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
ronb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2116

posted 17 April 2003 12:56 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The great and powerful Oz has spoken. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Youngfox
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3750

posted 17 April 2003 01:01 PM      Profile for Youngfox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I choose to focus on those who wish to shape the order of the world and rewrite history, not those monsters who rape and plunder their own nation's and people. (Although the Neocons in the US and The Zionists in Israel could fall loosely into that category as well, in my oh so humble opinion.)
My attention at this moment in history is drawn by the pursuit of the NWO by the most powerful and dangerous regimes on the planet whose huge arsenal of WMDs threaten all.
You sound fairly knowledgable when it comes to these localized menaces, why don't you use your big fat brain and this forum to address their inhumanity? I focus where I see the greatest threats to world peace.

From: - | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 17 April 2003 01:09 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
My attention at this moment in history is drawn by the pursuit of the NWO by the most powerful and dangerous regimes on the planet whose huge arsenal of WMDs threaten all.

And in your humble opinion that would be the evil Americans and Isrtaelis? Im interested in knowing when exactly the Americans (since WW2...and that will neeed a whole other thread)or Israelis have used WMD to threaten anyone. Better yet when have the Israelis ever used such weapons? Better yet what other nations would you add to this list? Oddly I notice some glaring ommissions....hmmm where is North Korea, Pakistan, Iran, India?. These countries alone pose a far greater threat in the use of WMD than Israel or evil (in your stilted eyes) America ever might. Then of course we cannot forget China, Great Britain, France...oh Youngfox your selectiveness is so obvious.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Youngfox
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3750

posted 17 April 2003 02:42 PM      Profile for Youngfox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I am getting tired of gagging on your self-righteous, anti-Semitic accusations. Israel and the USA are terrorizing and invading other nations, pretty much as we speak. Their preemptive doctrines are despicable and in violation of international law. In fact, based on the preemptive logic the Bush administration applied to Iraq, the US should invade and "disarm" Israel some time soon. They really would find WMD and if they were the moral godfathers they pretend to be they would also have plenty of juicy war crimes to prosecute. Too bad they are bum-chums in this little N.W.O. junket. I do not single out any one religion over another as they all have points both good and bad. I am however vehemently opposed to the foreign policies of both of these NATION'S REGIMES. I am however appalled by all of the anti -Muslim, anti-Arab pabulum gushing from down south. BOYCOTT FOX, although if you watch that crap you are probably a Nazi, Neocon Racist or toothless illiterate that would rather shoot than boycott.
(No I am not anti-toothless) Am I to assume you are anti-atheist? Waaaaaa - Audra, Jehovah, Allah, Jesus save me from the self- appointed superhero defender of world Jewry!
I have seen and read articles by Jews inside and outside of Israel who are against their murderous regime and I applaud their bravery and willingness to be world citizens. Boycott all brands that lend legitimacy and power to these two murderous and honourless regimes! I am sorry for all of the thread wobbling I have undertaken in order to defend myself from your obviously Anti-Atheist attacks. Flame, goad and label all you want I am done responding to your knee-jerk and biased personal attacks. Email me if you wish to "enlighten" me further because I really want to get back to addressing thread topics.
Peace

From: - | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 17 April 2003 03:54 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I am getting tired of gagging on your self-righteous, anti-Semitic accusations.
Hmm well it wasn't me that directly accused you of being anti-Semitic. Indeed a well-respected Babbler Mimichekele2 did just that (well he accused you of posting a Boycott Israel site that was antisemitic) and I happen to fully agree with him.

For those that wish to see this exchnage it is in the NEWS thread dealing with the B'nai Brith ad.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 17 April 2003 04:01 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is no longer about Syria or Lebanon and I'm sick of trying to get these threads back on topic with all this squabbling.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

   Open Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca