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Author Topic: The "real" story for America's mastery over the Arab world starts now.
Moredreads
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posted 10 April 2003 01:51 AM      Profile for Moredreads     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Robert Fisk: A day that began with shellfire ended with a once-oppressed people walking like giants
From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Elemennntal
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posted 10 April 2003 01:59 AM      Profile for Elemennntal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
From Fisk's commentary:

quote:
The great Lebanese poet Kalil Gibran once wrote that he pitied the nation that welcomed its tyrants with trumpetings and dismissed them with hootings of derision. And the people of Baghdad performed this same deadly ritual yesterday, forgetting that they – or their parents – had behaved in identical fashion when the Arab Socialist Baath Party destroyed the previous dictatorship of Iraq's generals and princes. Forgetting, too, that the "liberators" were a new and alien and all-powerful occupying force with neither culture nor language nor race nor religion to unite them with Iraq.


From: Dubai, UAE --- yeah THERE. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Elemennntal
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posted 10 April 2003 02:02 AM      Profile for Elemennntal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And again:

quote:
Not that the nightmare is entirely over. For though the Americans will mark yesterday as their first day of occupation – they, of course, will call it liberation – vast areas of Baghdad remained outside the control of the United States last night. And at dusk, just before darkness curled over the land, I crossed through the American lines, back to the little bit of Saddam's regime that remained intact within the vast, flat city of Baghdad. Down grey, carless streets, I drove to the great bridges over the Tigris which the Americans had still not crossed from the west. And there, on the corner of Bab al-Moazzam Street, were a small group of mujahedin fighters, firing Kalashnikov rifles at the American tanks on the other side of the waterway. It was brave and utterly pathetic and painfully instructive.

For the men turned out to be Arabs from Algeria, Morocco, Syria, Jordan, Palestine. Not an Iraqi was among them. The Baathist militiamen, the Republican Guard, the greasy Iraqi intelligence men, the so-called Saddam Fedayeen had all left their posts and crept home. Only the foreign Arabs, like the Frenchmen of the Nazi Charlemagne Division in 1945 Berlin, fought on. At the end, many Iraqis had shunned these men and a group of them had turned up to sit outside the lobby of the Palestine Hotel, pleading to journalists for help in returning home.


For me, IMHO, I am happy that Iraqi children don't have to hear the bombs or have their parents worry about their safety.

Still... this commentary, like some of his others the past 2-3 days, just brings me to wonder: indeed, what next?

This has been a war of 'history repeating itself' and I hope it doesn't in this case, but then that would be naive of me, wouldn't it?


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Mishei
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posted 10 April 2003 09:18 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I too hope that history will not repeat. I am somewhat lulled by the fact that there has not been the popular uprising either amongst Arab regimes or it's grassroots population in support of Saddam.

Many (myself included) thought that the the USA would be spurned and suicide bombings along with indiginous guerrrila warfare would be the order of the new day. So far the Americans seem to be welcomed. Let's see what the next few weeks bring.


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Michelle
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posted 10 April 2003 10:07 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, let's hope the Arab population in the region remains cowed and compliant in the face of American imperialism in the region.

(BTW, this is not to say that I hope that we start to see suicide bombings and unrest. I'm just saying that basically what we are hoping for (peace in the region) will not happen because the Arab people are free and happy, but because they are cowed and beaten and taken over. And I don't want Mishei to think I'm putting words in his mouth with the above statement, because I know that wasn't his intent when he made his comment.)

[ 10 April 2003: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 10 April 2003 10:28 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It was unlikely that there would ever be a popular uprising at this juncture. The Arab world generally mutters to itself. But that mutter is, in the long term more dangerous than any uprising.

Why apologize to Mishei, Michelle? It's been very obvious to me that he would be afraid of Arab populations overthrowing their rulers on their own. I mean, what kind of policy do you think they would follow toward Israel?


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Michelle
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posted 10 April 2003 10:36 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I didn't apologize to Mishei. I clarified that I wasn't directing my original comment at him, or claiming that he necessarily feels tht way.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 10 April 2003 10:39 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
*shrug*
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Mishei
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posted 10 April 2003 11:03 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Frankly, I have to admit to some sadness with what I see here. Are you saying that Arabs just compliantly take whatever is handed to them. Nonsense.

Afghanis did not sit idly by and welcome the Soviets nor did the Lebanese welcome the Israelis and the Algerians didn't exacly put out the welcome mat for the French. Why do you give the Iraqis such little credit?


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Mandos
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posted 10 April 2003 11:19 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It is not about taking what is handed to them. The problem is that at this point uprisings against local regimes is not likely to occur. We may see them in the future, but not now, especially not when it would be seen as legitimizing the Domino Effect Theory of Bush.
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ronb
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posted 10 April 2003 11:23 AM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Clearly the situation, even if we look only in Iraq, is a powder keg. If the Kurds are disappointed in Kirkuk, will they turn on the US? Will the Turks turn on the US if the Kurds keep Kirkuk? If Chalabi is foisted on the country, will he turn into Diem? If the Shia are disappointed, will the Badr brigade become a major factor? What is Tikrit going to do? There are many, many potential fuses. And frankly, with this administration's demonstrated carelessness with matches I'm not holding out much hope for a careful, sane approach to "democratization". Pay the Sunnis handsomely -including as many fedayeen and mukharbarat as they can find - to oppress the Shia, screw the Kurds, let the oil contracting and the orgy of US corporate welfare, er reconstruction, begin and damn the torpedoes would be my guess.
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 10 April 2003 12:43 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Afghanis did not sit idly by and welcome the Soviets

Afghanis are no more Arab than are Iranians.

See "the mysterious east" thread.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
drgoodword
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posted 10 April 2003 08:25 PM      Profile for drgoodword   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What ronb said.

drg


From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 11 April 2003 02:25 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Some reaction in the Arab Press:

Saudis are worried

Iraqi opposition groups grow suspicious of US intent

Lebanese are keeping their heads up

Palestinians unhappy, but won't quit their struggle

The fat lady ain't singing yet

[ 11 April 2003: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged

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