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Author Topic: Finally! Arafat Accused of Genocide
Beechtree
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3511

posted 03 March 2003 08:51 PM      Profile for Beechtree        Edit/Delete Post
It's about time this sham of a Nobel Peace Prize winner were charged as the arch-terrorist he is.

quote:
Jews Sue Arafat in Paris Court Over Israel Attacks
Mon March 3, 2003 03:58 PM ET
PARIS (Reuters) - Relatives of Jewish victims of attacks in Israel have filed a complaint in a Paris court against Palestinian President Yasser Arafat, accusing him of crimes including genocide, a judicial official said on Monday. Read about it.

From: Hog Town | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
CyberNomad
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posted 03 March 2003 09:09 PM      Profile for CyberNomad     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why bother to sue the bastard ... Mossad should put a bullet through his head.
From: St. Catharines ON | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Eauz
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posted 03 March 2003 09:10 PM      Profile for Eauz   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh come on, it's great that he is sued, but there are always 2 sides to the coin. What do I hear everyday on the news? "Another 4 Palestinian houses were blowen up today, because of suspected terrorist hidouts. Listen, as much as both sides hate each other, would you like it if were were working and than come home and realized that your house was blowen down just in the name of "Fighting Terrorism" ? Tons of people are left homeless each day there, no wonder the Palestinians hate the Jews so much. I think both guys should be throwen in jail never to see light again.

This is rediculous, One of the leaders gets Screwed over while the other one gets to run loose and use more terrorism to fight terrorism.


From: New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Moredreads
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posted 03 March 2003 09:11 PM      Profile for Moredreads     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ahh, just ignore their twaddle Eauz.
From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 03 March 2003 09:12 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Would someone explain to me how a man who runs a barely-functional government can possibly seriously be an instrument of genocide?

Idi Amin committed genocide. So did the unnamed leaders of the Rwandan ethnic factions. So did Slobodan Milosevic and Radovan Karadzic (Serbia)and Franco Tudjman (Croatia).

They were able to do so because they had at their disposal functioning government apparatus and people who would follow their orders.

Arafat's government has been hamstrung at every turn, and his offices have been under siege at least three times in the last three years.

How can this man possibly be capable of giving orders to commit genocide?

(Note that I do not say he is incapable of genocidal thoughts or actions. I do say he is incapable of making it happen as the situation is presently constituted, assuming the plaintiffs' complaints to be true.)


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
CyberNomad
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posted 03 March 2003 09:17 PM      Profile for CyberNomad     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
How can this man possibly be capable of giving orders to commit genocide?

DrConway, either you're showing off your ignorance, or you're jesting.

From: St. Catharines ON | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 03 March 2003 09:58 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Perhaps I choose to put myself in the shoes of the Man from Mars who doesn't know anything about the situation except what he sees.

Well, a Man from Mars, standing in my shoes, would see that Yasser Arafat's government is very weak and its apparatus, nonexistent.

The Man from Mars would naturally ask what evidence there exists to directly support the notion that Arafat himself is able to order genocidal acts to take place, keeping in mind that his country exists in a position of weakness relative to Israel.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
SamL
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posted 03 March 2003 10:49 PM      Profile for SamL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
From the Rome Statute and the Genocide Convention of 1940-something:

quote:
Article 6
Genocide
For the purpose of this Statute, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

I'd have to agree with DrC's points.

On a slightly related note, one of the things that had been bugging me at the start of this intifada was that while they were demanding that Arafat rein in terrorists, the IDF's first targets was the police infrastructure that could have done this.

[Edited for clarity]

[ 04 March 2003: Message edited by: SamL ]


From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
CyberNomad
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posted 03 March 2003 11:04 PM      Profile for CyberNomad     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
DrConway and SamL ... you're both very funny. Really.
quote:
Genocide
For the purpose of this Statute, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

See, SamL ... there is no prohibition about kicking the butts of terrorists.

quote:
keeping in mind that his country exists in a position of weakness relative to Israel.

DrConway, your Man from Mars might notice that Arafat does not have a country. And never will.

From: St. Catharines ON | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
verbatim
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posted 03 March 2003 11:10 PM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Under that convention, only states parties can be convicted of genocide. If Arafat has no state power behind him, he can't be convicted of genocide. There are lots of other things he could be convicted of, but genocide under the convention just isn't on.
From: The People's Republic of Cook Street | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 03 March 2003 11:17 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Its about bloody time that Arafat is lamabsted for genocide. You see, both Israelis and Palestinians have committed war crimes, but too often we have one side accusing the other of many things and not admitting to anything.

Trying the criminals of both sides is a step in the right direction.


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
CyberNomad
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posted 03 March 2003 11:24 PM      Profile for CyberNomad     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
verbatim is right. But they'll get him on the criminal conspiracy charge.
From: St. Catharines ON | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Moredreads
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posted 03 March 2003 11:55 PM      Profile for Moredreads     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You see Dr. C., et al, you are encourgaing the continued disemination of twaddle.
From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 04 March 2003 12:11 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
DrConway, your Man from Mars might notice that Arafat does not have a country. And never will.

NO! REALLY?! My god, Captain Obvious, the scales have fallen from my eyes! Welcome to Last Week!

The Palestinian Authority has been a facade for the last 10 years... oh wait, it WAS a facade! I seem to vaguely recall that the autonomy of the PA has never been as broad and expansive as the autonomy of, say, Israel within its own borders.

Thanks for making my point for me.

[ 04 March 2003: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 04 March 2003 08:12 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Moredreads, any time anyone here supports Israel in any way you just want to ignore them. That's fine, however what is clear to me is that there are many more coming on to Babble, many progressive Jews, who while they may not all agree with Israeli policies from time to time, they are Zionists who support the State of Israel.

Shalom Aleichem my frineds. It has been lonely here but now I welcome you on board.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 04 March 2003 08:28 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
CyberNomad is new to this discussion? You could have fooled me.

In fact, do I not remember his New Year's resolution to stay out of Israel-Palestine threads?

But back to the topic: Do I take it that this suit in Paris is tit-fot-tat, a response to the suit in Belgium against Sharon?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 04 March 2003 08:45 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No, but Beechtree, Stockholm, Jonathan and Gir Draxan are all recent Rabble Rousers who have at least a balanced view of the Israel/Palestinian crisis.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 04 March 2003 08:51 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I will admit that I have read Jonathan with interest.

Excuse me now, though -- gotta go try walking a white line to test the ole' balance.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
satana
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posted 04 March 2003 09:06 AM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
...Zionists who support the State of Israel
progressive racists? oh, well. welcome to babble.

From: far away | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 04 March 2003 09:21 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Enough with the name-calling, satana.

And can we please get back to the discussion at hand instead of being so self-congratulatory about our supposed "balance"? Neither the pro-Israel faction nor the anti-Zionist faction on babble have shown much in the way of "balance" and when it comes to a debate, there really isn't much need for it. If this is just going to turn into a meta-discussion about who's a better babbler, I'm going to close the thread.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
satana
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posted 04 March 2003 09:28 AM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
well, I think arafat is a criminal.
From: far away | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 04 March 2003 10:16 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hey CN, after the Mossad puts a bullet through Arafat's head, Hamas can put a bullet through Sharon's head.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 04 March 2003 10:51 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And now we are advocating murder on Babble.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 04 March 2003 10:54 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"now" we are? He's responding to another person's post about killing Arafat. Scroll up.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 04 March 2003 10:55 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Not me. I'm just pointing out to CN the logical result of his advocacy of murder.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 04 March 2003 10:57 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hee hee. I was waiting for the outrage.

You're one to talk about "balance", Mishei. Snerk. Where was all your outrage after reading the second post to the thread?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Moredreads
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posted 04 March 2003 12:16 PM      Profile for Moredreads     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Moredreads, any time anyone here supports Israel in any way you just want to ignore them. That's fine, however what is clear to me is that there are many more coming on to Babble, many progressive Jews, who while they may not all agree with Israeli policies from time to time, they are Zionists who support the State of Israel.

Bizarre, Beechtree is neither new nor progressive. If he/she is Jewish is not my concern, however the fact that Beetchtree is a neo-facist nutcase is a little worrying.

When I posted this rather lengthy quote:

quote:
"...this economic supremacy, of the the west over the rest of the world if I do not bring it into close connection with a political conception of supremacy which has been peculiar to the west for many centuries and has been regarded as in the nature of things: this conception it has maintained in its dealings with other peoples. Take any single area you like, take for example India. England did not conquer India by the way of justice and of law: she conquered India without regard to the wishes, to the views of the natives, or to their formulations of justice, and, when necessary, she has upheld this supremacy with the most brutal ruthlessness. Just in the same way Cortez or Pizarro annexed Central America and the northern states of South America, not on the basis of any claim of right, but from the absolute inborn feeling of the superiority of the west. The settlement of the North American continent is just as little the consequence of any claim of superior right in any democratic or international sense; it was the consequence of a consciousness of right which was rooted solely in the conviction of the superiority and therefore of the right of the west. If I think away this attitude of mind which in the course of the last three or four centuries has won the world for the west, then the destiny of this race would in fact have been no different from that, say, of the Chinese: an immensely congested mass of human beings crowded upon an extraordinarily narrow territory, an over-population with all its unavoidable consequences. If Fate allowed the west to take a different path, that is only because this west was convinced that it had the right to organize the rest of the world."

And asked for his commentary, his repsonse was:

quote:
MD, the psychology here is accurate, yet I would not say this is a phenomenon unique to 'the west'. A mere cursory glance at the Chinese dynasties, the three kingdoms in Korea, the Mongol and Ottoman empires, or Japan in the nineteenth and early twentieth century, will show you this is the mark of the human species and not merely a white region in the west. The success story of the west has more to do with implementations of new technologies and the capacity to exercise dominance than anything else.

Unbeknowenst to him I used the phrase "the west" in place of the phrase "white race," and also excluded the name of the original author. The original author, sometime after making this speech in 1932, went on to 'implement' new 'technologies' and used the 'capacities to exercise dominance' of the german state to try and extinguish the Jews of Europe.

But of course, so few actually know how to reckognize the theoretical essence of facism, and instead look only toward overt indicators, such as blatant anti-semetism so as to indetify it. Time and time again, many people, unaware of the underlying ideology of facism, fail to recognize it when it is being put into practice against Arabs.

Oddly, Beechtree is one of the only supporters of the occupation to actually strike towards that essential facist truth of the occupation. Unfortunately, he thinks its right.

BTW it is twaddle, just as Hitlers 'Lebensraum' speach was twaddle. I am sure that you would agree that it would hae been best if Hitler had been 'ignored' by more people, rather than touted as being 'progressive' and balanced, as many people thought at the time.

Thread referenced at this URL.


From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Moredreads
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posted 04 March 2003 12:19 PM      Profile for Moredreads     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
NO! REALLY?! My god, Captain Obvious, the scales have fallen from my eyes! Welcome to Last Week!

Dr. C., I appologize, this quote was well worth wading through a litle twaddle.


From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
CyberNomad
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Babbler # 2926

posted 04 March 2003 12:21 PM      Profile for CyberNomad     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I just love skdadl:
quote:
In fact, do I not remember his New Year's resolution to stay out of Israel-Palestine threads?

I think, nay I'm sure that, this topic is about seven Jews suing Arafat (the person) in a Paris Court.
[My New Year's resolution is still intact ... not easy to keep, I must admit.]

A note to josh: Hamas have been trying to eliminate Sharon for quite some time; without success. And the way things are unfolding, they won't be around for much longer.


From: St. Catharines ON | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2785

posted 04 March 2003 12:30 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Michelle I did miss CyberNomad's post. Quite right. No one should be advocating muder PERIOD. neither Josh in "jest" or Cyber.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged

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