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Author Topic: Sharon Destroys a Vegetable Market After Arafat Offers to Hold Talks
josh
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Babbler # 2938

posted 30 January 2003 03:00 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/30/international/middleeast/30CND-MIDE.html
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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Babbler # 1885

posted 30 January 2003 04:15 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The feeling of despair I expressed in that other thread is justified, I see.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 30 January 2003 05:56 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It is to vomit.

The soldiers who drove those tanks have turned sick, just sick.

I had been sitting here wondering how a man like Sharon could possibly be called "Ariel" (me, of course, thinking of the sprite in The Tempest ).

Then it occurred to me that it was likely a biblical name, which would be where Shakespeare also would get it, so I googled.

And there it is. Did you know that Ariel either means "lion of God" or is a symbolic name for Jerusalem ??? I find this hard to square with Shakespeare's sprite, but I'll go look at a copy of the play again and report back.

The disjunction -- between that sleek, brutal bastard and the spirit who sings "Full fathom five" -- is too much for me, too much.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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Babbler # 2534

posted 30 January 2003 06:10 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ariel, whose name does mean "Lion of God", is one of the Archangels. It is a beautiful name. The son of a good friend of mine is named Ariel, and no, she doesn't regret it because of "that mamzer", as she calls him...

Nobody is responsible for nasty people sharing their name. Just think how many German Jews were named Adolf - including Harpo Marx, by the way...


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 30 January 2003 06:17 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"An inhumand and unethical."

And so Israel is now described.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 31 January 2003 09:58 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Funny that this thread just stopped, given that it's still headline news. I wonder what it is that causes Middle East threads to fall silent so quickly.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 31 January 2003 10:04 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Normally they don't - they usually descend into bickering until they've reached 100 posts and have to be shut down.

This one is a rather refreshing exception.

Then again, I don't think there's much that anyone can say about this particular incident, except how despicable it is. I mean, how can you defend these actions?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 31 January 2003 10:50 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Of course, one could reflect that most threads get long because someone comes along to debate the opening post -- and then the back-and-forth ensues.

Apparently no one has a comeback to the sheer wrongness of the IDF action reported here.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Moredreads
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Babbler # 3393

posted 31 January 2003 11:07 AM      Profile for Moredreads     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I do. Of the five point that determine the crime of genocide as defined by the UN in 1948. The third is:


(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;


From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 31 January 2003 07:26 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And this incident (seems like such a sanitized word, but I can't think of a better one, except maybe "catastrophe") makes me a saaaaaaaaaaad panda.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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Babbler # 3192

posted 31 January 2003 07:54 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
When we criticise actions like this, the response is usually "You don't think Israel has a right to self-defense?"

Well, yeah, I do. But this isn't defense. In no rational universe could this be seen as defense.

This is punishment - punishment of people whose only crime is living in the wrong town - and warning. To destroy someone's business - whether by destroying the merchandise or breaking the windows or setting a fire - is a warning. Next time it will be you and your children crushed under the wheel of the tank. Next time it will be your head and not your windows that we break.

This is a terror attack. And this is why we're not too keen about "the only democracy in the Middle East."

[ 31 January 2003: Message edited by: Smith ]


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
evenflow
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Babbler # 3493

posted 05 February 2003 12:30 PM      Profile for evenflow        Edit/Delete Post
I agree Smith, this was a terrorist attack by the Israeli Military. Plain and simple.
From: learning land | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
SamL
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Babbler # 2199

posted 05 February 2003 01:11 PM      Profile for SamL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I've said it once, I'll say it again, send in the UN NOW!!!

An interesting exercise would be if Canada could apply the universality principle for prescriptive jurisdiction (see Belgium war crimes thread), send in JTF2, get Sharon out, send him to the ICC and establish a precedent for universal enforcement of genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity.

Too bad it'l' never happen.


From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
sheep
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posted 05 February 2003 01:13 PM      Profile for sheep     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ha ha! The Canadian military versus the Isreali military. If the Isrealis are unable to find a platoon with an afternoon off, this plan might work!
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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Babbler # 1292

posted 05 February 2003 01:20 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You underestimate the Canadian military and the power of beer.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
evenflow
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Babbler # 3493

posted 05 February 2003 01:55 PM      Profile for evenflow        Edit/Delete Post
Its true, Israel is one of the most armed nations in the world. They have so many weapons of mass destruction it is indeed laughable that any country could ever intervene in the name of justice as you suggest...
From: learning land | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
satana
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Babbler # 2798

posted 05 February 2003 02:09 PM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Military force is not the only way enforce justice.
From: far away | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
evenflow
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3493

posted 05 February 2003 09:44 PM      Profile for evenflow        Edit/Delete Post
Someone should tell Sharon's Israel that.
From: learning land | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
satana
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Babbler # 2798

posted 06 February 2003 02:47 AM      Profile for satana     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why doesn't Canada boycott Israel?
From: far away | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
evenflow
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Babbler # 3493

posted 06 February 2003 11:51 AM      Profile for evenflow        Edit/Delete Post
Good luck with that satana.
From: learning land | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Smith
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3192

posted 06 February 2003 01:09 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Are we sending foreign aid to Israel at this point? Because if we are, we should cut it off.
From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged

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