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Author Topic: update on the york situation
statica
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posted 29 January 2003 02:50 PM      Profile for statica   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
(hey, i just wanted to post this somewhere to update you all.)

PLEASE NOTE: The students who occupied the office were forced to leave
after warnings from police were given to leave or be arrested. But, .... The
battle continues.

Press Release
January 28, 2003
for immediate release

STUDENTS OCCUPY PRESIDENT MARSDEN'S OFFICE, DEMAND PUBLIC MEETING

Over 100 students have occupied the Office of the President on the 9th floor
of the Ross Building at York University.

The students are demanding a public forum where President Lorna Marsden can
answer the student concerns around the speech given by Daniel Pipes, an
active endorser of the controversial academic 'monitor' Campus Watch
(www.campus-watch.org ). Pipes political
discourse is also offensive and racist, argue the students, who point to
Pipes unapologetic endorsement of racial, ethnic and religious profiling. On
his webpage, Pipes has stated that "had religious and ethnic profiling been
in place on September 11, it is very unlikely that 19 Arabic-speaking
Muslims would have made it on board with their box-cutters. More broadly, as
a passenger on an airplane, don't you want law enforcement to use whatever
statistical methods it has to figure out who is most likely to make trouble
aboard?" (Daniel Pipes, http://www.danielpipes.org/cair.php
). At today's event, Pipes was quoted
stating "there are three types of barbarianism: Palestinian Nationalism,
Islamism, and the Left." (Daniel Pipes, January 28, 2003, Speech at York
University)

The event was to be originally co-sponsored by the York Centre for
International Security Studies (YCISS) and to be held in the student pub/
restaurant, The Underground. After hearing the concerns of students over
Pipes inflammatory rhetoric and opposition to dissenting opinions, both
YCISS and the Underground withdrew their sponsorship. The Office of the
President then unilaterally chose to relocate the venue on campus, despite
the fact that there had been an agreement to have the event off of campus.

Students are also demanding a public apology for the administrations
violation of University policy regarding Academic Freedom and Racism.
Students believe this decision by the University has aided in the souring of
their environment, and that students of colour, particularly those of Arab
and Muslim decent, will feel targeted and unsafe.


For information, contact:
endsanctionsnow@yahoo.ca


Other Quotes:

"Muslim government employees in law enforcement, the military, and the
diplomatic corps need to be watched for connections to terrorism, as do
Muslim chaplains in prisons and the armed forces. Muslim visitors and
immigrants must undergo additional background checks. Mosques require a
scrutiny beyond that applied to churches, synagogues and temples." (Daniel
Pipes, The Washington Times, January 28, 2003)


"The Time has come for all these stakeholders to take back the universities
as institutions of civilized discourse. This can be done only by ending the
now repugnant atmosphere of extremism and intimidation. The place to start
is by condemning and curbing the leftist activism that too often passes for
Middle East scholarship." (Daniel Pipes, New York Post, June 25, 2002)
York University Policy
York University Human Rights Policy 1995/06/26
Racism
York University acknowledges its on-going responsibility to foster fairness
and respect, to create and maintain a positive working and learning
environment and to promote anti-racism.

Senate of York University
March 26th, 1998
Academic Freedom
"Be it resolved that the Senate of York University considers it essential
that universities in Canada guarantee protections for academic freedom and
tenure..."


From: t-oront-o | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 29 January 2003 04:38 PM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I wanted to respond to Lagatta's question from an earlier thread.

quote:
Mishei, I wish you would say whether the defence of freedom of speech for all extends to neo-nazis and Holocaust deniers
I have stated time and again that anyone who breaks Canadian law, ie hate laws and Human rights codes and neo-nazis /deniers have in abundance..should not be permitted to speak.

[ 29 January 2003: Message edited by: Mishei ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 29 January 2003 11:35 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Well, the very term "barbarian" is racist to its roots (bar-bar = Greek, onomatopoeic, used to describe anyone who spoke a language the Greeks couldn't understand ... as in, "It's all Greek to me." ).

Someone once challenged me on this when I once said that "barbarian" was derived from the Roman/Greek labelling of the Germanic tribes they encountered, since their language sounded a lot like "bar-bar-bar".

Glad to see that my knowledge of the derivation squares with your note that it's onomatopoeic.

[ 29 January 2003: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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posted 30 January 2003 12:04 AM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I have stated time and again that anyone who breaks Canadian law, ie hate laws and Human rights codes and neo-nazis /deniers have in abundance..should not be permitted to speak.

But what if you feel that something is hate speech and the Canadian law simply has not caught up with it yet?

Is the JSF/CJC making any effort at all to address these concerns when inviting such people, or is it just "Hey, this person likes Israel, so hurrah for him"? Because right now, it sure looks like they're inviting anyone and everyone who likes the occupation, regardless of the speakers' other politics, regardless of how that affects their fellow students. And they have a right to do that, but it's not admirable.

I'm not saying Pipes should have been prevented from speaking (and as you well know, he did speak without incident), but perhaps it behooves us all to be a little more sensitive and less sectarian when considering whom we ask to speak at public institutions and how we present those we do want to speak for us.

The JSF has a right to ask Pipes to speak. The CJC has a right to help them get him up here. I, in turn, have a right to think that was a really shitty thing for them to do.

[ 30 January 2003: Message edited by: Smith ]


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Flowers By Irene
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posted 30 January 2003 12:16 AM      Profile for Flowers By Irene     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The credit (or blame) for Pipes speaking on campus @York is not the JFS' - although they originally invited him, they agreed after YCISS rescinded their sponsorship of the event, to hold the talk off campus. Lorna Marsden had the event moved to Tait, and it is she who responsible for the direct violation of University policy re: racism and academic freedom.
From: "To ignore the facts, does not change the facts." -- Andy Rooney | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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posted 30 January 2003 12:21 AM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, ok. My apologies to the JFS, then.

Well, sort of. I still think it's kind of shitty that they wanted him to speak in the first place. Betrays bad taste. But clearly they were trying to be accommodating, so ok.

[ 30 January 2003: Message edited by: Smith ]


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mishei
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posted 30 January 2003 08:14 AM      Profile for Mishei     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The credit (or blame) for Pipes speaking on campus @York is not the JFS' - although they originally invited him, they agreed after YCISS rescinded their sponsorship of the event, to hold the talk off campus.
OK I have spoken with many of the JSF people who were involved in the planning of this event (the same people who had a representative of Peace Now speak to them a while back) and they tell me that there NEVER WAS ANY SUCH AGREEMENT. Simply put it is a LIE.

According to my JSF sources they were told at first by York security people that the event would NOT be held on campus. As a result they were exploring other options which included a rally at the front gates of York and a talk off-site.

When CJC was appraoched for assistance it was apparantly their lobbying that helped bring academic freedom back to the campus. This was corroborated in a column yesterday by Rosie Di Manno.

Smith, as for predicting what someone may or may not utter, well in certain circumstances I think storng and viable conclusions can be reached. For example, given David Irving's proclivity towards anti-semitism and the court case in which he was acclaimed a racist and anti-semite, one could logically conclude he is such and his speech will reflect it. The same can be said for people like Ernst Zundel, Malcolm Ross and Paul Fromm all of whom have been involved in judicial or quasi-judicial cases dealing with hate speech and/or alliances with hate groups.

The line becomes a bit fuzzy when no legal issues are involved but there is significant proof (not innuendo, misinterpretation or nuance) of hate speech as in for example, Louis Farakhan and David Icke both of whom came to Canada and both of whom spoke here.

Pipes falls into none of these categories. In fact he has echoed other scholars and historians one such revered academic is Islam historian Bernard Lewis who has claimed that the Palestinian /Israeli conflict is "...just another example of the bloody clashes that arise on the margins of Islam, whenever it encounters a competing civilization" (Globe and Mail, Jan 30/03 as written by Margaret Wente). Should Bernard Lewis then also never be permitted to speak at York University?

We must be careful when it comes to speech especially on campus but the above are at least my guidelines for what they are worth.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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posted 30 January 2003 09:04 AM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
OK I have spoken with many of the JSF people who were involved in the planning of this event (the same people who had a representative of Peace Now speak to them a while back) and they tell me that there NEVER WAS ANY SUCH AGREEMENT. Simply put it is a LIE.

Well, then I retract my apology.

quote:

According to my JSF sources they were told at first by York security people that the event would NOT be held on campus. As a result they were exploring other options which included a rally at the front gates of York and a talk off-site.

"Don't censor our censorship advocate! Ra, ra!"

quote:

When CJC was appraoched for assistance it was apparantly their lobbying that helped bring academic freedom back to the campus.

Yeah, you just keep going on about the wonders of academic freedom...until Norman Finkelstein or Edward Said wants to speak, right? Then you'll be going on about how insensitive York is, or wherever...

quote:

Pipes falls into none of these categories. In fact he has echoed other scholars and historians one such revered academic is Islam historian Bernard Lewis who has claimed that the Palestinian /Israeli conflict is "...just another example of the bloody clashes that arise on the margins of Islam, whenever it encounters a competing civilization"

Yeah, darn those violent Muslims! Shame on them, trying to hurt the innocent, peace-loving Jews and Christians!

You know, I've read some of Bernard Lewis, and I really don't think he thinks it's quite that simple...


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 30 January 2003 09:51 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Daniel Pipes is in many ways worse than Bernard Lewis, but indeed Lewis is one of the intellectual roots of Pipes advocacy. Lewis contains, at the very least, the seeds of racism and hate. In Pipes, it sprouts. Who knows where it will bloom?
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 30 January 2003 10:10 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Pipes is being interviewed on CBC Radio One right now.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 30 January 2003 10:32 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sorry: my listening was interrupted; but it seemed to me that the interview was very scattered. The interviewer (Anna Maria Tremonti) was tough enough, but she hadn't done her homework on, eg, the CampusWatch site -- he was able to fend off the second-hand impressions she had by claiming that the site contains only legitimate critical commentary on individual Middle East scholars -- and since she didn't seem able to come back at him at all, I'm assuming she hadn't looked at the site herself. Shame.

He wasn't particularly coherent himself, though -- kept slipping away from her, but partly, I think, because he doesn't actually have anything that deep to say, just a collection of claims that he collects in order to create an all-over spooky effect.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 30 January 2003 10:35 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I didn't hear it, but I'm surprised that Tremonti was tough at all on him. She has a reputation for being the "anti-Neil-MacDonald." Former Israel correspondent, pretty sympathetic to Israel.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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Babbler # 3192

posted 30 January 2003 11:17 AM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, you can be sympathetic to Israel without liking censorship advocates...

Hell, I think we need to reclaim the term "pro-Israel." It's not anti-Israel to want Israel to stop doing violent illegal bullshit, any more than it's anti-American to be angry at Bush or anti-Canadian to protest the FTAA or the treatment of the Innu.

[ 30 January 2003: Message edited by: Smith ]


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 30 January 2003 12:21 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Or anti-Italian to hate Berlusconi and his fascist buddies Bossi and Fini.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 30 January 2003 12:33 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A clincher, lagatta.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic
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posted 30 January 2003 02:27 PM      Profile for Polunatic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
By the way, this event was part of "Israel Fest" occuring at campuses across Toronto over a couple of weeks.

Israel Fest

It would seem that the lack of controversy EXCEPT for Daniel Pipes seems to show there's a lot of tolerance at Toronto Universities.


From: middle of nowhere | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged

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