babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


  
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » archived babble   » the NDP   » Question For NDPers: Do You Think It Is Wise To Trash Other NDPers In A Public Forum?

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Question For NDPers: Do You Think It Is Wise To Trash Other NDPers In A Public Forum?
leftcoastguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5232

posted 23 November 2004 02:18 AM      Profile for leftcoastguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, do you?

[ 23 November 2004: Message edited by: leftcoastguy ]


From: leftcoast | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1299

posted 23 November 2004 03:46 AM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why? What did you do now?

But, seriously, no -- not really.


From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 23 November 2004 03:47 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ahhh, how nice not to be in a party!!!
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5474

posted 23 November 2004 04:19 AM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think some people just like to complain. Heh -- I just needed to say that.

Obviously not everyone who is obsessed with complaining about the NDP is in it, and some are probably members of other parties. Some probably adhere to narrow ideological preferences and wouldn't be happy unless the NDP doesn't go exactly their way. Some people are genuine, but w/ the proliferation of “Jack’s Moustache has too much Grey -- he isn’t leadership material” threads it does get a bit boring/annoying.

Anyways I look forward to some more Liberal/Conservative bashing cause this NDP bashing is starting to get passé.


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Debra
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 117

posted 23 November 2004 08:52 AM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Anyways I look forward to some more Liberal/Conservative bashing cause this NDP bashing is starting to get passé.

Me too!


From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
the grey
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3604

posted 23 November 2004 08:57 AM      Profile for the grey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Piatkowski:
Why? What did you do now?

But, seriously, no -- not really.


Sometimes people need to vent. And it's tough bite your tongue when there are limited opportunities available.


From: London, Ontario | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1299

posted 23 November 2004 10:55 AM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Then, please vent away (you have reason to), but be aware that this is a public space.
From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
thorin_bane
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6194

posted 23 November 2004 11:02 AM      Profile for thorin_bane     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Funny thing is I'm not a dipper. I vote for them but only cuz they are the closest to my "way of thinking" I worked on the campiagn even donated, but am not a card carrying member. I like cueball, love not being part of a party. Hell I would vote liberal if Brian Tobin was PM or Lloyd Axeworthy. But Lib and progress has went out the window. Oh a little off topic but don't forget to vote for tommy douglas. I would vote for Trudeau because he used his NDP past to make this country better but I would like to see an NDP proclaimed the greatest canadian, justr to piss off the cons.
From: Looking at the despair of Detroit from across the river! | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Doug
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 44

posted 23 November 2004 03:12 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Constructive criticism is always best, but I see no problem with bashing away when it's deserved. If there's a problem, it should come out.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2

posted 23 November 2004 04:05 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My answer is "of course", because party-loyalty stuff makes me le barf.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 625

posted 23 November 2004 04:09 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Question For NDPers: Do You Think It Is Wise To Trash Other NDPers In A Public Forum?

I don't think it's a question of "wise" or "unwise." If I want to say I'd rather stick hot needles in my eyes than work on a campaign with, say, Darrel Dexter or Peter Kormos, I'm going to say it, and if someone has a problem with what I say, they can talk to me about it. But I'm not going to refrain from talking for fear of offending or "causing a fuss."

It's silence that allows old boys clubs, or prejudiced or dishonest leadership to control ridings, and even higher levels in the party.

[ 23 November 2004: Message edited by: meades ]


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 23 November 2004 04:23 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
On Party Unity
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 23 November 2004 04:29 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hehe.

quote:
It is essential that all class-conscious workers clearly realize the harmfulness and inadmissibility of any factionalism whatsoever which inevitably leads, in practice, to less friendly work and to repeated and intensified attempts by enemies of the ruling party who have attached themselves to it under false pretenses, to deepen the divisions and use them for purposes of counter-revolution.

Uh, guys? Gate open, horses gone. Please forward this to the Marxist-Leninists, the Leninist-Marxists, The People's Coalition of October 5, the People's Coalition of the Morning of October 6, the Judean People's Front, the People's Front of Judea...


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718

posted 23 November 2004 04:31 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
Besides, anyone can come on here and say they're an NDPer, while spouting all kinds of garbage.

Even if (to take things to an absurd length) you had to mail Audra a photocopy of your NDP membership card before being allowed to join, ten bucks is a pretty small price to pay in order to be able to troll for a year and not get trashed for it.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 23 November 2004 04:42 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My understanding that this was not an NDP site. That is partly why I bother with it (to the chagrin of some.)
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
praenomen3
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4758

posted 23 November 2004 04:59 PM      Profile for praenomen3        Edit/Delete Post
JUDITH: I do feel, Reg, that any Anti-Imperialist group like ours must reflect such a divergence of interests within its power-base.

REG: Agreed. Francis?

FRANCIS: Yeah. I think Judith's point of view is very valid, Reg, provided the Movement never forgets that it is the inalienable right of every man--

STAN: Or woman.

FRANCIS: Or woman... to rid himself--

STAN: Or herself.

FRANCIS: Or herself.

REG: Agreed.

FRANCIS: Thank you, brother.

STAN: Or sister.

FRANCIS: Or sister. Where was I?

REG: I think you'd finished.

FRANCIS: Oh. Right.

REG: Furthermore, it is the birthright of every man--

STAN: Or woman.

REG: Why don't you shut up about women, Stan. You're putting us off.

STAN: Women have a perfect right to play a part in our movement, Reg.

FRANCIS: Why are you always on about women, Stan?

STAN: I want to be one.

REG: What?

STAN: I want to be a woman. From now on, I want you all to call me 'Loretta'.

REG: What?!

LORETTA: It's my right as a man.

JUDITH: Well, why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?

LORETTA: I want to have babies.

REG: You want to have babies?!

LORETTA: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.

REG: But... you can't have babies.

LORETTA: Don't you oppress me.

REG: I'm not oppressing you, Stan. You haven't got a womb! Where's the foetus going to gestate?! You going to keep it in a box?!

LORETTA: [crying]

JUDITH: Here! I-- I've got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans', but that he can have the right to have babies.

FRANCIS: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother. Sister. Sorry.

REG: What's the point?

FRANCIS: What?

REG: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies when he can't have babies?!

FRANCIS: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.

REG: Symbolic of his struggle against reality...

BRIAN: Are you the Judean People's Front?

REG: Fuck off!

BRIAN: What?

REG: Judean People's Front. We're the People's Front of Judea! Judean People's Front. Cawk.

FRANCIS: Wankers.

BRIAN: Can I... join your group?

REG: No. Piss off.

BRIAN: I didn't want to sell this stuff. It's only a job. I hate the Romans as much as anybody.

PEOPLE'S FRONT OF JUDEA: Shhhh. Shhhh. Shhh. Shh. Shhhh.

REG: Schtum.

JUDITH: Are you sure?

BRIAN: Oh, dead sure. I hate the Romans already.

REG: Listen. If you really wanted to join the P.F.J., you'd have to really hate the Romans.

BRIAN: I do!

REG: Oh, yeah? How much?

BRIAN: A lot!

REG: Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the fucking Judean People's Front.

P.F.J.: Yeah...

JUDITH: Splitters.

P.F.J.: Splitters...

FRANCIS: And the Judean Popular People's Front.

P.F.J.: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Splitters. Splitters...

LORETTA: And the People's Front of Judea.

P.F.J.: Yeah. Splitters. Splitters...

REG: What?

LORETTA: The People's Front of Judea. Splitters.

REG: We're the People's Front of Judea!

LORETTA: Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.

REG: People's Front! C-huh.

FRANCIS: Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?

REG: He's over there.

P.F.J.: Splitter!


From: x | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
the grey
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3604

posted 23 November 2004 04:59 PM      Profile for the grey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by meades:

It's silence that allows old boys clubs, or prejudiced or dishonest leadership to control ridings, and even higher levels in the party.


There is, I think, a distinction between choosing to be silent and choosing which venues are the appropriate ones for speaking out.


From: London, Ontario | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
meades
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 625

posted 23 November 2004 05:52 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Babble is the perfect place for criticism of the party simply because there are so many members who participate on the boards, and so many people in the party read the boards.

It's not like CBC or some other major news media will hop on a story about conflicts in an NDP riding association that concern internal politics. Don Newman might bring it up for background when he's covering federal convention, but beyond that, I doubt the media would even notice. And if it's a case of racism or sexism, and the party is unsuccessful in rooting out those elements, people should be aware, and should punish the party for not practicing what it preaches.


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 23 November 2004 06:28 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
My understanding that this was not an NDP site. That is partly why I bother with it (to the chagrin of some.)

You understand correctly.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
thwap
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5062

posted 23 November 2004 06:44 PM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post
I'm an NDP supporter. But I would like to think that I criticize the NDP, and that I don't trash it, or other NDPers. At least, as NDPers.
From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 25 November 2004 04:52 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm an NDP man, and the last thing I want is someone saying I can't criticize my own damn party in public. It's a free country, and as long as what I say isn't an actionable criminal or civil offence, then the NDP can just go suck eggs if I criticize someone.

Hell, I can say I don't like Jack Layton because he has a mustache. (Actually, the mustache works well on him, but I'm citing a hypothetical example where I might use superficial considerations to criticize the NDP leadership)

So anyone who feels that he or she shouldn't criticize the NDP or the behavior of members of the NDP in babble should erase that feeling and bring forward any criticisms.

Police officers like to claim they can do their own dirty laundry in private, and look what happens. They ass-pat each other right into good ol' "desk jobs" and "administrative suspensions with pay" and nothing substantive changes in the culture of entitlement the cops have as far as abusing the trust of the public.

Same principle with the NDP. If people in the NDP say the party should be immune to criticism in a public forum (now, having said this, there is one exception I would make, and that is during an election; during an election, people have to focus like a laser beam on the direction set by the party platform and the party leader. Infighting at that time is a strategic misstep. Any other time is fine and dandy, like right now.) regardless of the circumstances then they are, in effect, advocating for the NDP to abuse the trust of its membership to do whatever the hell its officials damn well please.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Budd Campbell
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7019

posted 25 November 2004 05:11 PM      Profile for Budd Campbell        Edit/Delete Post
Can I extend this topic a little? What do Babblers think of party members who will leak embarassing inside information to the media, for example, the background on nomination races, party financial disputes, the behind the scenes stuff from conventions or council meetings, and so on.
From: Kerrisdale-Point Grey, Vancouver | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
Babbler # 621

posted 25 November 2004 05:12 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What audra, meades, DrConway said.

Party loyalism is a disease of a weak and effete organization.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Budd Campbell
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7019

posted 25 November 2004 05:15 PM      Profile for Budd Campbell        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by meades:
If I want to say I'd rather stick hot needles in my eyes than work on a campaign with, say, Darrel Dexter or Peter Kormos, I'm going to say it, ...


Did they do something wrong?


From: Kerrisdale-Point Grey, Vancouver | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
meades
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 625

posted 25 November 2004 05:33 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just theoretical examples
From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Budd Campbell
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7019

posted 25 November 2004 06:15 PM      Profile for Budd Campbell        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by meades:
Just theoretical examples

The little smirky thingy suggests otherwise.


From: Kerrisdale-Point Grey, Vancouver | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Kinetix
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5296

posted 25 November 2004 06:37 PM      Profile for Kinetix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
While I don't know if I'd work on a campaign for Kormos, I'm sure he'd be a riot to drink with.
From: Montréal, Québec | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
meades
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 625

posted 25 November 2004 08:23 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The little smirky thingy suggests otherwise.

you think?

From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1299

posted 26 November 2004 01:05 AM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The question was whether it was "wise", to which I answered, "probably not". If the question was "should it be allowed?", then my answer would be "as if we could stop anyone".
From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
speechpoet
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3693

posted 26 November 2004 02:40 AM      Profile for speechpoet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Should we bash other NDPers on Babble? Christ, no. What would we do at convention?
From: Sunny Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Left Turn
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7142

posted 26 November 2004 02:58 AM      Profile for Left Turn        Edit/Delete Post
speechpoet wrote:
quote:
Should we bash other NDPers on Babble? Christ, no. What would we do at convention?

Criticism of ideas is okay, criticism of individuals is not. I do make an exception with respect to the most repulsive member of the bourgeoisie (ex. George Bush), but I do not believe in openly attacking fellow workers online. I post to these forums in the hopes that others on these boads might adopt better positions on issuesa that matter. I dont denounce them for holding ideas with which I happen to disagree.

United we can create a world free of capitalist exloitation where workers actualkly control their own labour.

Divided we fall prey to petty infighting while the capitalists gett away with bloody murder.


From: BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5474

posted 26 November 2004 04:00 AM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think it's fine to criticize the party whether it is the individuals in the sense of their positions or ability to do the job or the parties' policies, so long as it's not during an election (where I agree with Dr.C -- same goes for all parties).

If it's wise or not who knows. Not even ten percent [its an observation so no swooping please] of the people on here use their real full names, and those who do can't be quoted in real life unless they are actually who they say they are. And the only people who can prove that are those with access to the IP log and a way to track it. So unless something illegal (or against babble policy) is said, nothing here is *at least technically* off limits. So it's not as if these things said are particularly useful to others. It's mostly armchair analysis.

That being said what I still think what I said earlier in this thread still rings true. Repetition can get boring.


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Steve N
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2934

posted 26 November 2004 08:15 AM      Profile for Steve N     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
If it's wise or not who knows. Not even ten percent [its an observation so no swooping please] of the people on here use their real full names, and those who do can't be quoted in real life unless they are actually who they say they are. And the only people who can prove that are those with access to the IP log and a way to track it. So unless something illegal (or against babble policy) is said, nothing here is *at least technically* off limits. So it's not as if these things said are particularly useful to others. It's mostly armchair analysis.

Hmm. I had a little rant on the ONDP Convention thread. I heard about immediatly, and got an attempted dressing down in person. "If you have a problem, call me, don't go posting about it on a public forum". I'll probably hear about this post too...


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 26 November 2004 08:25 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Steve N:

Hmm. I had a little rant on the ONDP Convention thread. I heard about immediatly, and got an attempted dressing down in person. "If you have a problem, call me, don't go posting about it on a public forum". I'll probably hear about this post too...


And did you tell whomever it was who told you that to shove it up his or her ass? Because that's what I would've told anyone who tried to intimidate me into silence.

[ 26 November 2004: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Budd Campbell
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7019

posted 26 November 2004 01:02 PM      Profile for Budd Campbell        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Kennelly:
...the most repulsive member of the bourgeoisie (ex. George Bush), but I do not believe in openly attacking fellow workers online. ...

United we can create a world free of capitalist exloitation where workers actualkly control their own labour.

Divided we fall prey to petty infighting while the capitalists gett away with bloody murder.


Hmmmm. Well, ... good luck and Godspeed young man.


From: Kerrisdale-Point Grey, Vancouver | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289

posted 27 November 2004 10:59 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Kennelly:
Divided we fall prey to petty infighting while the capitalists gett away with bloody murder.

You are quite correct, divisiveness does not further the causes of equality and getting rid of corporate control. And they are getting away with much more than murder.

Infighting based upon personal special interests and ideologies is going to be pretty thin gruel, whenn all rights are finally stripped away, because people could NOT see the bigger picture, and apply it to local levels.

Edited to add: In the case of Dagmar yes, as I do not believe he is NDP at all.

[ 27 November 2004: Message edited by: remind ]


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Budd Campbell
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7019

posted 06 December 2004 02:41 AM      Profile for Budd Campbell        Edit/Delete Post
I have a question that is a slight variation on the actual topic of this thread. I would like to know what one should do when you hear or hear about damaging gossip about a fellow NDP memeber?
Should you tell the person or persons who are the subject of this gossip what is being said behind their back? What if the person who is spreading this material is a key party operative, someone who is closely connected to provincial office or to one of the party's affiliates or officially recognized caucuses?

In the case I am personally thinking of an elderly couple with many long decades of service to the party are being libelled. Members attending a committee meeting were told by someone who has an ideological agenda and believes causes are more important than individuals that this marriage of 40 or more years is an abusive relationship. The charge is perfectly ridiculous, but it's also libel.

What should one do? I would like to hear how other Babblers would respond to a situation like this.


From: Kerrisdale-Point Grey, Vancouver | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 06 December 2004 03:57 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You should not say anything about it to the perosn targetted, and challenge the person telegraphing though you in the most strenuous terms, on the basis that they are spreading gossip, and that is just as bad as anything else. You might even try and talk to the source of the gossip and say the same kind of things.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
meades
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 625

posted 06 December 2004 04:05 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well if it's obviously bull shit, I would just ignore it completely. Giving attention to people who just like to make a fuss just gives them power. Think of them like trolls. Feeding them makes them stronger.

If there were any possibility of truth behind the claim, I would confront the subject of the gossip if possible, and not name the source of the information. If they deny it, seek the opinions of others (people generally don't admit to major character flaws, such as being a misogynist or racist) and think back on any past patterns of action of the person in question, and make your judgement from that.


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289

posted 06 December 2004 04:18 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Agreeing with cueball, I do not think the couple should be burdened with the gossip and judgement of others. But the other doing the spreading should be confronted with it, if this type of stuff faces no opposition then it spreads further, it does not always stop it.

People, perhaps new to the committee structure, who do not know the couple, could pick this info up and dismiss very good information and support by such a long time politicaly active and aware couple because of such labeling and gossip.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
fatal ruminate
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5280

posted 10 December 2004 05:05 PM      Profile for fatal ruminate     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
From experience, I can say that some members of the party take quite poorly to any criticism, whether in a public forum or in private.

I noticed that after comments regarding the problems in Trinity-Spadina during the last campaign that my e-mailbox was bombarded with quite a few nasty e-bombs.

So if you wish to offer comments in this forum, just consider that some are willing to attack those with which they disagree.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sine Ziegler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 225

posted 11 December 2004 07:35 PM      Profile for Sine Ziegler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I like when Liberals trash each other in public forums.
From: Calgary | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
southpaw
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7668

posted 29 December 2004 08:21 PM      Profile for southpaw     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
OH MY GOD NO! Let's be good little lemmings and jump over the cliff! But seriously, of course - we have to keep an eye out on all our politicians and a public forum is one way to communicate. Yes, yes, yes, other parties are obviously in here "spying" but who of us don't go to other party sites? It's all part of the fun and games.

The thing is, we can trash away, vent, BUT unless we take some action alongside with it then we're only perpetuating Glen Cllarke scenarios over and over. The guy should have been booted by the party and part of that was up to us. Look where it got us, back into non-credibility again.

So go after your fellow NDP asshole politician, hold them hard to things. But don't forget to praise and support those doing good. AND praise and support the ones you went over if they decided to make changes.


From: east vancouver | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
ceti
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7851

posted 16 January 2005 10:49 AM      Profile for ceti     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just a brief comment here -- I think there are other important issues here than just party loyalty, etc.

As I far as I can see, this public forum is permanently archived (or I guess as long as the Rabble servers are kept online) which is a reason why Google's GMail is so controversial and why I think it is good netiquette to ask list members whether they want an open or closed list with a publicly accessible archive.

I think the onus is more on the individual poster who could be embarrassed by their incoherent postings at a later date. I think in this age we are still working out privacy issues, so it's not a settled topic yet, but I think it's important to bear in mind why some people might take issue with "washing dirty laundry in public".

But there is of course the larger issue of Left sectarianism which is a different issue than whether we should all get behind someone like Kerry or god forbid Martin if Harper comes close to winning the next election. I'm still of two minds on this issue. It speaks to bigger problems of democracy that we are left with vicariously exercising political power by throwing stones at our own from the sidelines of history.


From: various musings before the revolution | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
lacabombi
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7014

posted 16 January 2005 12:03 PM      Profile for lacabombi     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There are certain issues where the "wash our dirty laundry in private" line has to trashed: sexism, homophobia and racism come to mind.

I also give the credit of the doubt to those who criticize publicly that they must have tried internally.

I bet that fellow Babblers who -so far- expressed reservations about public criticism of the NDP without providing exceptions are white heterosexual men, very remote from such issues.


From: Ontario | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6438

posted 16 January 2005 12:25 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
For whatever it's worth I think those political parties where the emphasis is on unity at all expenses and criticisms are kept to lowered hushes it ends up looking cultish and unobjective to the person looking from the outside. Seeing persons engaged in thoughtful discussions and a willingness to criticize someone even within your own fold is refreshing although it can't become thematic to the point it is disruptive.

Just my opinion - I'm not NDP.


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
lacabombi
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7014

posted 16 January 2005 09:22 PM      Profile for lacabombi     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Hailey: Seeing persons engaged in thoughtful discussions and a willingness to criticize someone even within your own fold is refreshing although it can't become thematic to the point it is disruptive

In my view it can and sometimes should be thematic and disruptive as long as people's legitimate concerns are being ignored (as in "ignore the issue it would go away").


From: Ontario | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
ceti
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7851

posted 18 January 2005 02:01 PM      Profile for ceti     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
lacacombi's "white heterosexual men" is a canard -- another essentialization of a much more complex dynamic. In fact, it is the majority community's constantly dredging of dirty laundry that disrespects minority communities who have their internal politics and issues to work through in addition to suffering under the harsh glare of scrutinity from unsympathetic and often hostile outsiders. I think one must ascertain one's own situatedness before engaging in these debates.

That said, of course internal democracy is vital, but one must also measure leading by example against intellectual dilletantism which often resembles drive-by trashing rather than constructive criticism and a dedication to change. It's easy to "babble", it's much harder to sit down and work with people.

Incidentally, for what it's worth, I am not white.


From: various musings before the revolution | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
lacabombi
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7014

posted 20 January 2005 06:03 PM      Profile for lacabombi     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

lacacombi's "white heterosexual men" is a canard -- another essentialization of a much more complex dynamic. In fact, it is the majority community's constantly dredging of dirty laundry that disrespects minority communities who have their internal politics and issues to work through in addition to suffering under the harsh glare of scrutinity from unsympathetic and often hostile outsiders. I think one must ascertain one's own situatedness before engaging in these debates.
That said, of course internal democracy is vital, but one must also measure leading by example against intellectual dilletantism which often resembles drive-by trashing rather than constructive criticism and a dedication to change. It's easy to "babble", it's much harder to sit down and work with people.

Incidentally, for what it's worth, I am not white.


Could you, please, say it in plain english or get off the potty ?

So you are not white! ARen't we a nation of diversity ? White, non white, uncle Toms etc..


From: Ontario | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
ceti
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7851

posted 22 January 2005 02:19 PM      Profile for ceti     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What, that is English as far as I can tell. And the last comment was to alert you to your own assumptions. I would never throw that in unless as a direct response to your baiting in the first place.

My main point is that unless people are willing to constructively engage in these issues so as to build a strong social movement, then the excessive trashing of others doesn't help. The left is remarkably adept at squabbling with itself, which is fine until we have to deal with reality.

[ 22 January 2005: Message edited by: ceti ]


From: various musings before the revolution | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
lacabombi
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7014

posted 22 January 2005 09:15 PM      Profile for lacabombi     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So you are convinced I was "baiting". Keep reading the worse in people and keep commenting accordingly!

Only your prejudice that you are exposing, ceti.

[ 22 January 2005: Message edited by: lacabombi ]


From: Ontario | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca