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Author Topic: New poll in Globe and Mail friday Jan 2
rob mcguffin
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posted 05 January 2004 02:26 PM      Profile for rob mcguffin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
here are the results of a poll that was in the Globe and Mail on Friday January 2nd...by the way the poll is no where to be found now....I wonder why...lol
quote:
If a Canadian election is held in 2004, how will you vote?


Bloc
585 votes (2 %)

Conservative
9477 votes (30 %)

Liberal
8584 votes (28 %)

NDP
9624 votes (31 %)

Other
2819 votes (9 %)


Total Votes: 31089



From: windsor | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Heather
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posted 05 January 2004 02:49 PM      Profile for Heather   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Couldn't find it either...the only poll I could find was the Mars poll.
From: Planet Earth | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rob mcguffin
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posted 05 January 2004 02:56 PM      Profile for rob mcguffin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I guess they would want to bury that poll pretty quick...it makes me mad though how they can sweep it under the rug like that.They must have been horrified to see those results as much as i was delightfully suprised.
From: windsor | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sharon
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posted 05 January 2004 03:16 PM      Profile for Sharon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I followed that poll over the weekend as well and went back last evening to see what the final result was. And yes, it's gone although right under the current poll, they claim to offer the results of the past seven polls. I was hoping someone would write a letter to the editor.
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
scribblet
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posted 05 January 2004 04:08 PM      Profile for scribblet        Edit/Delete Post
I think it was an unually large no. of voters so I'm wondering if somehow the poll was hacked and rigged ?
From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
rob mcguffin
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posted 05 January 2004 04:16 PM      Profile for rob mcguffin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Of course it must have been!The NDP won!.....I don't think so scribblet i could see if it was a runaway victory but because the vote was so dispersed amongst the top three partys and that there were so many other votes it seems very unlikely.
From: windsor | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sara Mayo
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posted 05 January 2004 04:18 PM      Profile for Sara Mayo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Whenever the Globe asks an interesting question, it is not unusaly for the number of responses to exceed 30,000.

31960 responded to the question about the most interesting Canadian news story of 2003.

(My apologies for the side-scroll!)

[ 05 January 2004: Message edited by: Sara Mayo ]


From: "Highways are monuments to inequality" - Enrique Penalosa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cpar
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posted 05 January 2004 04:39 PM      Profile for Cpar     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I also voted in the poll, and when I went to see the results- the poll was nowhere to be found- could it be that the Globe and Mail forget?
From: kelowna, BC | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
rob mcguffin
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posted 05 January 2004 04:55 PM      Profile for rob mcguffin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah they want to forget it all right....but i think they forgot that 30 thousand people who voted won't.
From: windsor | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
rob mcguffin
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posted 05 January 2004 04:57 PM      Profile for rob mcguffin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I can see the Liberals platform for the federal election already....A vote for the NDP is a vote for the conservatives....
From: windsor | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Newbie
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posted 05 January 2004 04:59 PM      Profile for Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
While it wasn't necessarily hacked and rigged, the results were absurdly skewed. Of course all online polls are worthless, but this one just makes all their online polls look silly even to those who aren't aware of it, so they took it down.

While we're on the subject of polls, over the holidays the American Family Association (the hate group) conducted an online poll on equal marriage. Someone emailed Dan Savage about it and he mentioned it in his online column about gay sex (Savage Love 2.0)

http://www.afa.net/petitions/marriagepoll.asp

As a result, with over a million votes cast, 59% are in favour of "homosexual marriage."

They promise "The results will be presented to Congress."

Should be fun.

Rob, so far the Liberal party line is that the Conservatives simply don't matter, they're irrelevant.

[ 05 January 2004: Message edited by: Newbie ]


From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
rob mcguffin
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posted 05 January 2004 05:09 PM      Profile for rob mcguffin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Rob, so far the Liberal party line is that the Conservatives simply don't matter, they're irrelevant.


I think you will see that change with the NDP gaining strength and momentum...the liberals will be scrambleing to pick up votes any where possible and i don't think Martin is prepared to spar with Layton through the media to attack the NDP.

From: windsor | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Newbie
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posted 05 January 2004 05:36 PM      Profile for Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
On the contrary....

I think the NDP gaining strength and momentum is exactly what the Martin Liberals want and are doing everything they can to help. It is NOT to Martin's advantage to win the embarassing majority they are headed towards unless the NDP can move up.

They want to be Canada's national conservative party, which means their opposition HAS to be from the left. Eliminate the Conservatives and make the NDP the opposition, and the 21st century will be even more dominated by Liberals than the 20th was.

[ 05 January 2004: Message edited by: Newbie ]


From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Emma D.
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posted 05 January 2004 06:32 PM      Profile for Emma D.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
For your information, I too was puzzled about the poll disappearing and I have e-mailed the Globe this morning. No reply yet.
From: Stratford | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tim
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posted 05 January 2004 10:54 PM      Profile for Tim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
i don't think Martin is prepared to spar with Layton through the media to attack the NDP
They don't need the media, the Liberals have their very own website:
Say Anything ... Jack

And here's the NDP response

One interesting thing about the Liberal press release is that the contact listed is Dennis Mills (who me? worried?)


From: Paris of the Prairies | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Performance Anxiety
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posted 05 January 2004 11:18 PM      Profile for Performance Anxiety        Edit/Delete Post
Nice bit of meme warfare between the Libs & NDP!!!! Libs 0. NDP 1. PLAY ON!!!


From: Outside of the box | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
vickyinottawa
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posted 07 January 2004 10:45 AM      Profile for vickyinottawa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
side note: Douglas Fisher, political columnist for the Ottawa Sun, talks about the Globe Poll in his column about Layton today.

Click

[ 07 January 2004: Message edited by: vickyinottawa ]


From: lost in the supermarket | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
MJay
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posted 07 January 2004 11:04 AM      Profile for MJay     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Interesting to see this columnist say that Dennis Mills told him personally that he will not be running again.
From: Montréal | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Emma D.
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posted 07 January 2004 11:13 AM      Profile for Emma D.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I e-mailed the Globe (for a second time) asking where this poll had gone to. This is the reply I received this morning, for your information :

It was a glitch and a case of human error. In order for the polls to stay available for seven days they need to be archived in a very precise way. Normally this is done by our evening news editor around 8:00 each night but because of holidays etc. the person who archived the federal election poll was new to the task and inadvertntly overwrote the survey, causing us to lose the results.

Since then, I have taken steps to clarify the process in an attempt to avoid this problem in the future.

Angus


From: Stratford | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
rob mcguffin
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posted 07 January 2004 06:07 PM      Profile for rob mcguffin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Since then, I have taken steps to clarify the process in an attempt to avoid this problem in the future.

Yeah no more polls about who you will vote for in 2004 where the NDP win!

From: windsor | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
banquo
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posted 07 January 2004 07:33 PM      Profile for banquo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, Emma at least you got a reply. I haven't.

That's actually a relatively believable scenario. Although I could easily see some part-time editor knowing perfectly well how to archive properly deciding that just this once...


From: north vancouver, bc | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 07 January 2004 08:42 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think Newbie has it right. If they did spike it (which seems likely) it was because it makes their polls look stupid, not to sabotage the NDP. Everyone knows that the Libs are going to win the election. To have a poll lying around that suggests that it's a race between the CP and the NDP would make anyone conclude that these polls aren't worth wasting your time on.
From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
rob mcguffin
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posted 08 January 2004 02:36 AM      Profile for rob mcguffin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
To have a poll lying around that suggests that it's a race between the CP and the NDP would make anyone conclude that these polls aren't worth wasting your time on.
So does that mean that your poll that tells you the liberals will win a waste of time too?If this poll suggests that, then should'nt all polls in general be catorgorized as a waste?What makes a poll suggesting a Liberal win accurate?The Political scene in Canada has gone through a drastic change in the last three months....in my opinion any thing at this point is possible.Besides the poll suggested a three way race not a two way race...it just so happens the Liberals were third.

[ 08 January 2004: Message edited by: rob mcguffin ]


From: windsor | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
banquo
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posted 08 January 2004 03:37 AM      Profile for banquo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Self-sampling polls (like any newspaper poll), while not exactly a waste of time, are not by any stretch of the imagination reliable indicators of voting intent.

Here's another BTW. Along with a table down the page showing percentages expressed from many of the reputable firms over the past few years. http://www.canadawebpages.com/pc-polls.asp

[ 08 January 2004: Message edited by: banquo ]


From: north vancouver, bc | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Newbie
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posted 08 January 2004 09:04 AM      Profile for Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by rob mcguffin:
So does that mean that your poll that tells you the liberals will win a waste of time too?If this poll suggests that, then should'nt all polls in general be catorgorized as a waste?

You don't seem to understand that this isn't a poll -- it's an online, self-selected piece of crap that has no relationship whatsoever to a scientific poll. You don't even have to live in Canada to answer it.

It doesn't matter what the results are -- the fact that they are absurdly wrong in this case is just a handy way of pointing out to how much a piece of crap the thing is.


From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Guêpe
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posted 08 January 2004 09:09 AM      Profile for Guêpe   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
wasnt that a web poll?
From: Ottawa | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
rob mcguffin
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posted 08 January 2004 02:06 PM      Profile for rob mcguffin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You don't seem to understand that this isn't a poll -- it's an online, self-selected piece of crap that has no relationship whatsoever to a scientific poll. You don't even have to live in Canada to answer it.

It doesn't matter what the results are -- the fact that they are absurdly wrong in this case is just a handy way of pointing out to how much a piece of crap the thing is.


Why so angry?Its just a harmless web POLL!Don't worry all the other polls still have YOUR Liberals still in front.This sounds like it could be the same reaction the people at the Globe and Mail had when they seen the results.

From: windsor | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Newbie
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posted 08 January 2004 02:25 PM      Profile for Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My Liberals?

Where on earth did you get that from???? I have never voted for the federal Liberals in my life and don't intend to start now.

You still don't seem to understand what this is all about -- the results of web polls are worthless, no matter what they say. That people are calling this poll worthless has nothing to do with it saying the Liberals are in third place. It's worthless because its "sample" is composed of Globe & Mail readers who as a group are older, whiter, more Toronto-based and English-speaking than a valid cross-section of Canadians, combined with partisans of the NDP and Conservative parties who typically spread the word through mailing lists and bulletin boards that there's a poll out there waiting to be manipulated.


From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
rob mcguffin
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posted 08 January 2004 02:48 PM      Profile for rob mcguffin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
composed of Globe & Mail readers who as a group are older, whiter, more Toronto-based and English-speaking than a valid cross-section of Canadians, combined with partisans of the NDP and Conservative parties who typically spread the word through mailing lists and bulletin boards that there's a poll out there waiting to be manipulated.

Holy crap don't you think a cross section of far right conservatives and close to far left NDPer's is a diverse group in itself?I don't consider the Globe and Mail an NDP read paper...i can guarentee you more red Liberals read that paper than NDPer's.What paper would you suggest Liberals read?Your analysis above seems a little contradicting my expieriance with the NDP suggests it's anything but "older,whiter,english speaking".

From: windsor | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 08 January 2004 02:48 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
combined with partisans of the NDP and Conservative parties who typically spread the word through mailing lists and bulletin boards that there's a poll out there waiting to be manipulated.

We've actually discussed how to manipulate these polls here at babble. May I suggest the use of Mozilla for poll manipulation? It's Cookie Manager feature makes finding the cookie that the poll drops easy, and deleting it even easier! It doesn't mess you up the way deleting all of your cookies in Netscape or IE can.

Vote early, vote often!


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Holy Holy Holy
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posted 08 January 2004 02:56 PM      Profile for Holy Holy Holy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Where on earth did you get that from???? I have never voted for the federal Liberals in my life and don't intend to start now.
Um, who DO you vote for? I was similarly confused.

[ 08 January 2004: Message edited by: Holy Holy Holy ]


From: Holy | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
banquo
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posted 08 January 2004 07:32 PM      Profile for banquo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There is a new Environics poll out today. Caught it while watching Don Newman on Newsworld. It's not on the Environics website yet but it shows Liberals gaining almost everywhere, including Alberta although the Conservatives are still leading strongly there. NDP support is up in only Manitoba if I remember right and either flat or within the margin everywhere else including nationally.

http://erg.environics.net/ if you want to keep an eye open for this one. Usually takes them a couple of days.


From: north vancouver, bc | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 08 January 2004 07:34 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I always had the impression that Newbie supports the NDP.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
dale
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posted 08 January 2004 07:57 PM      Profile for dale        Edit/Delete Post
. . .
quote:
Newbie supports the NDP.

And apparently, votes that way occasionally.


From: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cpar
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posted 08 January 2004 11:00 PM      Profile for Cpar     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I saw the CBC coverage this evening which had the Bloc at 15% and the NDP at 8%, then it was casually mentioned that the Bloc and NDP were backwards. It also sowed that 39% of NDP voters preferred P. Martin as PM- anybody out here know any of them?
From: kelowna, BC | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 08 January 2004 11:05 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah the numbers were something like 51-25-15-8 Lib-CP-BQ-NDP, where they had obviously gotten the NDP and BQ numbers mixed up. A strong majority of both Conservative and NDP supporters picked Martin as the best PM.

This poll will certainly be in the Globe & Mail tomorrow morning.


From: --> . <-- | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kiavash Najafi
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posted 09 January 2004 12:06 AM      Profile for Kiavash Najafi     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The CBC report I saw had the NDP at 15% and the Bloc at 8%.

Mansbridge mentioned that the poll was conducted on the first few days of Martin as the PM. Does that mean the poll was conducted before the holidays?

The fact that only 25% of the NDP supporters considered Jack as the best person for the PM's office is rather confusing.

I suppose there's something rotten in the state of Environics. Liberal internal pollings show the NDP on a dangerous rise in many urban centres.


From: Toronto and Ottawa | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
LukeVanc
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posted 09 January 2004 06:47 AM      Profile for LukeVanc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Um, who DO you vote for? I was similarly confused.

He voted for George Slitherman in the provincial elections because the candidate in TCR was a straight filipino woman, if that's any consolation.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 09 January 2004 08:30 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hey LukeVanc, that was probably a satisfying dig to write, but it really kind of mischaracterizes what Newbie ACTUALLY said about his voting choice. It's pretty nasty to imply that Newbie wouldn't vote for someone because she's Filipino or a woman - are you calling him a racist male chauvanist? You might want to watch that.

Here's what Newbie really said:

quote:
Yes, she managed to get about as much as Sewall did, but not as much as Sewall and the NDP candidate did together. In other words, the left wing vote declined by a third while it increased province wide.

Basically, the NDP vote peaked in the election Rae lost, when Brent Hawkes ran in St. George - St. David.

This time around, Hawkes endorsed Smitherman. Does it not tell you something about what an appalling job the NDP has done in this riding when its former candidate is prominently featured in the Liberal candidate's campaign literature?

Lara's team did an APPALLING job. I never even received any campaign literature, let alone a phone call or door-to-door visit from a campaign worker. Her campaign didn't exist in the gay village, in the condos or in Rosedale.

The NDP can pretend all it wants that this riding consists only of St. Jamestown, and in return, we'll just keep on voting Liberal.

The NDP in my riding keeps going out of its way to make sure I know they don't want my vote.

And I keep obliging.

If the NDP wants to EVER have a chance in this riding, it needs to broaden its appeal. No, that doesn't mean abandoning immigrants and poor people, despite what one thug here accused me of advocating. It means building bridges and finding candidates who can carry the NDP's message to the people currently voting Liberal, Tory and Green.

Anyone who thinks that person is Gene Lara betrays their total ignorance of this riding.


Quite a bit different than your characterization.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Newbie
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posted 09 January 2004 01:30 PM      Profile for Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thanks Michelle. Incidentally, in another thread yesterday, I said I didn't want to see Paul Hellyer run in Toronto Centre or any other riding. Like most racists/sexists, I am primarily prejudiced against rich old straight white guys!


What I want in a Toronto Centre candidate is what I want in every other riding in Canada -- the person most able to maximize NDP votes and make us look like a credible government in waiting, even if the riding isn't winnable. Olivia Chow, a straight woman of colour, (who I realize is not going to run in the riding) is an example of someone who could do that. Paul Hellyer, I wager, wouldn't even do as well as Lara did.

At the time of the election there were some on this board who were convinced Gene Lara was a great candidate with a realistic chance of victory. I disagreed and said so, along with the reasons why. I was also right. Shooting the messenger doesn't help anyone, nor does accusing him of racism, sexism or any other ism, and neither do delusions of victory whether based on wishful thinking or bogus web polls.

I'm an NDP supporter -- most of the time. I'll never be a cheerleader for the NDP or any other party.


From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Boinker
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posted 09 January 2004 07:30 PM      Profile for Boinker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think Martin will not do that well in the election and that is why there have been no big announcements or hints that he is going to the polls.

The NDP in fact is much better situated as Jack is having an amazing effect on the voter recognition component. People need to know where we as NDPers are different than Liberals and why they are not the good "money managers" they cliam to be (i.e. the gun registry for example). Martin is trying to spin this boondogle as if her were not part of the same party that sponsored it. But its not working.

Layton needs an issue and I think Martin's support of Star Wars miight be that issue. We can better spend the money.


From: The Junction | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
scottndp
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posted 09 January 2004 08:43 PM      Profile for scottndp     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The poll posted by environics should not be taken too seriously. It was done when Martin became Prime Minister and does not reflect the dramatic political changes we are seeing in the last few days. There is a definite timing on the reinteration of this poll. It was well co-ordinated to discuss this on the CBC last night while at the same time Paul Martin endorsed something so awful as the missle defense plan. It is meant to contradict what Canadians are beginning to feel - a profound change in course for our country.

Today Paul Martin also showed his true colours on gay marriage. The Liberals are the party with a large number of homophobic MPs. Shameful! No party can talk about a future "national will" and be so unaware of today and what tomorrow will bring. Legislation must always address social reality. It is in that concept that we can do well. Whether it be pot laws, star wars, sustainable economy, housing, and the rebuilding of our country. If we honestly address the issue with wise solutions we have a bright future ahead of us.

I joined the NDP because I believe in social values. I don't like the current state of our communities, our cities, our provinces, this country and our world. Our party has alot of potential because we endorse positive ideas. There is a place for us and it growing in this world. I see good things to come for NDPers and progressive Canadians!

Scott (a new babble/r)


From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
hibachi
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posted 11 January 2004 02:21 PM      Profile for hibachi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think that polls move more glacially, and that the political effects of events in a couple of days are not going to affect the overall poll numbers greatly.

For a long time we have seen Liberal numbers around 50, combined Conservative numbers at around 24, NDP numbers around 10-15, and Bloc numbers around 8.

The main change in the numbers (if there is any) seems to come in the runup to the election.

The problem for the NDP is if the Liberals stay in the 50% range. The NDP could be wiped out.


From: Toronto, Ont. | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boinker
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posted 11 January 2004 05:23 PM      Profile for Boinker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I have no crystal ball as to what will happen in the next election. What seems to me clear is that nine of the leaders have been tested in a debate on the main issues of the nation.

Conservatives like Martin and the Conservative Party want closer integration with the US. Chretien's victories were all based on the idea that he and the Liberals are social democrats fighting regard action against the dark pwoers of reaction. The NDP has an opportunity to demonstrate that this is entirely false.

The opposition to the Iraq War, the support of social programs and bilingualism and the general multicultural cosmopolitan view of the world all represent the struggle inside the Liberal Party itself. In Canada there is largescale and broad support for these agenda among the population.

The NDP can remind everyone that Paul Martin and the Liberals owed the "liberal" aspect of the agenda to Chretien's last term repentance and first term lies about the oprogressiveness of the agenda.

One of the nauseating things about Martin is that he uses the ill formed belief that only Liberals and capitalists ought to run the country.

I think the NDP could do the job much better if the voters were patient and supportive enough.


From: The Junction | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 12 January 2004 12:35 PM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by rob mcguffin:
I can see the Liberals platform for the federal election already....A vote for the NDP is a vote for the conservatives....

...to which the response should be, "Yeah, but voting Liberal is the same as voting Tory anyway, so vote NDP, dammit."

Well, maybe not verbatim. But that should be the gist.

E.


From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged

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