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Author Topic: Moving to Linux Part IV
radiorahim
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2777

posted 02 October 2005 10:21 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A continuation of previous threads

Here's the last one!

Moving to Linux Part III


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
Babbler # 621

posted 04 October 2005 01:29 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm just going to continue the KDE vs. Gnome thing here. I tried to think if there was a single feature of KDE I would miss, and there isn't. Is anti-aliasing implemented in Gnome yet? How extensive is this? Is it just for fonts? Does Gnome have a font manager?

The other thing I'm starting to think about is customized tweaks that I might want to preserve as I upgrade my system. (I am going to more or less do a clean install.) The only thing I can think of is my TeX/LaTeX system where I have gone to a lot of trouble to manually encode fonts, etc. Other than this, it's hard to think of anything, but on the other hand, it's so long ago that I might just be forgetting.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3336

posted 04 October 2005 01:52 AM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rasmus raven:
I'm just going to continue the KDE vs. Gnome thing here. I tried to think if there was a single feature of KDE I would miss, and there isn't.

I stripped KDE off my machine. All of it. I haven't used it for years. I don't use Gnome as a desktop, but I do use several of its applications, so I have a partial Gnome install. I don't need eye candy and the sluggishness that goes with it.

I have been slowly removing programs that I don't ever use and cleaning out unused dependencies. (orphaner) It makes for a cleaner system. If I don't use it, I don't want it.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Raos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5702

posted 04 October 2005 03:11 AM      Profile for Raos     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would be far too worried to try and do anything like that. I've found that gnome works pretty well for me.
From: Sweet home Alaberta | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
rbil
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 582

posted 04 October 2005 01:04 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
After using the Enlightenment window manager on my laptop, I decided to install it on my main computer so that I can take advantage of the dual monitor setup I have on this computer. I've posted a couple of screenshots of what the E17 desktop looks like.

My desktop is spanning across 2 19" monitors. These are rather large screen captures, although I have compressed them a little. The first shows the complete desktop and the second is cropped to just show the desktop on my first monitor.

2048x768 Desktop (1.3MB download):

http://w-3productions.com/e17_dual.png

1024x768 Desktop (867.5KB download):

http://w-3productions.com/snapshotmenu.png

The latter is displaying a look at the popup menuing system that E17 uses.

With all its eye-candy, Enlightenment is not nearly as resource intensive as KDE or Gnome and IMHO, the most beautiful desktop available for computers today.

Cheers.

[ 04 October 2005: Message edited by: rbil ]

[ 04 October 2005: Message edited by: rbil ]


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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Babbler # 3336

posted 04 October 2005 01:23 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Raos:
I would be far too worried to try and do anything like that.

Frankly, I was too. That's why I do it slowly. If I were to do another install, I'd start with minimal and build up as necessary.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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Babbler # 3336

posted 04 October 2005 01:28 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
rbil, your Enlightenment screen shots look great. Enlightenment has come a long way from where it was when I was playing with it.
From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
rbil
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 582

posted 04 October 2005 02:51 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cougyr:
rbil, your Enlightenment screen shots look great. Enlightenment has come a long way from where it was when I was playing with it.

Yes indeed it has. The developers worked for 2 years to redo Enlightenment from scratch essentially. E16 has been around for awhile and that is what you're probably familiar with. E17 is a whole new thing and although still in early development is VERY promising to be the desktop of the future.

Cheers.


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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Babbler # 3336

posted 04 October 2005 04:13 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If this works, it should show my Fluxbox screen with imp opened. http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=e98a9t

In the lower right corner is Gkrellm, which I use to monitor my adsl connection. Note that there are no icons and no exposed menu. I can access the menu anywhere just by right clicking my mouse.

[ 04 October 2005: Message edited by: Cougyr ]


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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Babbler # 4169

posted 04 October 2005 04:48 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm a fluxbox / blackbox fan myself bob.
From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3336

posted 04 October 2005 06:17 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by No Yards:
I'm a fluxbox / blackbox fan myself bob.

I don't need to persuade you, do I sharp-eyes? I tried them all, and used XFce for about a year. Then, XFce came out with version 4 and screwed up their menu function. I jumped to Fluxbox before they fixed it, and have been here ever since.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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Babbler # 7039

posted 04 October 2005 08:51 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
edited because I found the answer to my question myself

[ 04 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7039

posted 05 October 2005 10:31 AM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
[root@localhost lu]# cat /home/lu/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs/bcwireless_#linuxtalk.log | grep stupid
cat: /home/lu/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs/bcwireless_#linuxtalk.log: No such file or directory

Nice try rbil. (same result when I do it as user)

You can call me anything under the sky but I DO have a memory and DO know what you said.

Also the way you "took me down" when I did something as su when I didn't need to (what's the harm anyway?) may not have used the word 'stupid' but the message was loud and clear. For fuck's sake what do you expect from somebody who's used Windows for 8 years and doesn't know much about Linux?

You were in a bad mood because of an argument with somebody else on Babble just before I logged on to the irc channel. I was coping with the (sometimes) vicious effects of the pain killers from the previous day and had a hard time getting any thoughts clearly through my head.

Thank you for your thoughtfulness about the conditions some of your interlocutors might be in.

I've only written this because I found your comments addressed to me hurtful and won't waste any more of my (or your) time with this.

I'm sure this is not the only place where somebody like me, not even up to the intellectual level of a ten year old, can get help with Linux.

Ciao

[ 05 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
rbil
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 582

posted 05 October 2005 11:07 AM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
VanLuke, I have the logs and what I quoted came directly out of them. Surely I don't need to print the entire log to convince you that what I quoted was correct?

Maybe you're system is a bit different. You are capable of finding that log (I did leave you with a pretty good idea where to look for it ). Maybe the prefix on that file differs because of how you named that particular connection? Maybe try this if you don't want to use something like Konqueror to get to it ...

cat /home/lu/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs/*_#linuxtalk.log

In any case, I'm not sure why you insist on dragging this out like this? I DID NOT call you stupid. I have repeatedly made the argument here and other places (like within our chats) that some people will have a more difficult time with Linux simply because of being stuck in the Windoze mindset of using a computer.

Yesterday I have an telling experience. I had a client come by who needed me to do some changes to his company's website. This guy doesn't have alot of knowledge about computers, although he's totally dependent on it for his business and uses his computer daily and has for at least the last 5 years now. He's sitting right next to me as we're going over his website and I'm taking notes of the changes and additions he wants. He spent an hour along side of me at my computer. I'm opening windows, taking notes, dealing with images he's given me on a CD, etc. All of this is happening on my Linux box of course and not once did he notice that something was a bit different. He had no clue that I wasn't working in Windoze and that I was using a different operating system. And I didn't bother to mention it. :-)

Now a seasoned and experienced Windoze user would have noticed right off the bat, this ain't Windoze that I'm using and would have at the very least pointed that out.

Now back to the "question" of you being "stupid". You ARE NOT stupid and I never considered you being "stupid". How you could read that in me when I talked about the stupidity of FireFox to make the desktop the default place for its downloads, is beyond me! I have to assume you are part of the progressive community and having made that intellectual leap is proof enough to me that YOU ARE NOT STUPID!

What I did notice about you is that you are quite computer literate based on your previous experience in the DOS and Windoze world and I'm suggesting that this is handicapping you a bit in terms of getting your mind wrapped around using Linux. You are approaching Linux with Windoze-based preconceptions that is making your path to Linux more difficult. It has nothing to do with your intellect and I've never suggested that.

Look VanLuke, for some reason and I don't know why, you've been reading into what I've said incorrectly. I hold no ill feelings towards you personally. In fact, your persistence in trying to use Linux and leave the Evil Empire is to your credit and I'm quite impressed with your determination. The channel is always open to progressives that want help with Linux. I'm there and you're more than welcome at any time, if you so choose, to drop by and I'll continue to offer you what help I can. What else can I say?

Cheers.


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 05 October 2005 11:11 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good lord. Get a room already.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 05 October 2005 11:23 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I love how these four different, lengthy threads show us all how easy it is to switch to Linux!

...

Step 1694: Now find the line in /root/blah/obscure/hidden/geek/ that starts with the Hexadecimal equivalent to 32768 and is escaped with three backslashes (\\\) which are themselves escaped by 4 ampersands (&&&&) and copy that line to the file in /root/blah/obscure/hidden/somebodyfuckinghelpme that is the longest, excluding all source-derived lines, or lines with more than one backtick in them.

Step 1695: Having now copied your kernel flag properly to the configuration log, find a file in your /root/blah/livinghell/ directory and use the command line to call up 'vi' and remove all non-standard ASCII characters....


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
Babbler # 621

posted 05 October 2005 11:44 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

My last install was several years ago, and it was easy. But perhaps that was because I read several books about linux before making the move? But after the "easy" part of the install, I had some minor tweaking and troubleshooting to do. The upside is that my system has never crashed since then, and I've never had to go in and mess with it again.

I'll do a new install this week and let you know how it goes.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2777

posted 05 October 2005 03:53 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I love how these four different, lengthy threads show us all how easy it is to switch to Linux!

Installing Xandros is a matter of boot from CD disk, maybe six mouse clicks, reboot...done.

What I know about Unix commands wouldn't fill a shotglass.

The other distros these days aren't much harder than that.

It does help to pick up the odd book here or there..."Linux for Dummies" or whatever...I have a couple of them...or hit some of the "newbie" websites.

Myself, I've found learning a new O/S and new ways to do things to be alot of fun...and coupled with the fact that I'm sticking it to the "evil empire" makes it even more fun.

That's why I've always recommended that newbies try installing on a "junque box" first...so that your first Linux box is basically a "toy" that you play with.

As you get better and used to the "new" way of doing things, eventually you give the "evil empire" a toss. For some folks that process will take months...for others it'll take years. Each to their own. It took me several years to give the evil empire a toss.


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 05 October 2005 03:55 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
I love how these four different, lengthy threads show us all how easy it is to switch to Linux!

...

Step 1694: Now find the line in /root/blah/obscure/hidden/geek/ that starts with the Hexadecimal equivalent to 32768 and is escaped with three backslashes (\\\) which are themselves escaped by 4 ampersands (&&&&) and copy that line to the file in /root/blah/obscure/hidden/somebodyfuckinghelpme that is the longest, excluding all source-derived lines, or lines with more than one backtick in them.

Step 1695: Having now copied your kernel flag properly to the configuration log, find a file in your /root/blah/livinghell/ directory and use the command line to call up 'vi' and remove all non-standard ASCII characters....


Not worthy! Not worthy! Hall of fame quality, even!


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rbil
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 582

posted 05 October 2005 04:25 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Good lord. Get a room already.

Talking to me? If you are, I don't have a clue what your comment was supposed to mean. Why don't you find another thread that you can contribute to?

Cheers.


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 05 October 2005 04:47 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually, I was thinking more about VanLuke at first, since he's the one who decided to drag it into this thread, but then both of you since you and he were going at it in the last one too, so it's not like you're some innocent bystander.

I read the argument you guys were having in the last thread, and frankly, it's a bore.

Find another thread I can contribute to? Just because someone isn't posting to a thread doesn't mean they're not reading it. In fact, I was working my way through this thread, as well as the latter three. No, I don't have much to add, beyond my wish not to watch a pissing match between you and VanLuke. Some threads are ones where people just read them in order to learn.

Anyhow, if you honestly don't know what "get a room" means, I'll spell it out for you: if you and VanLuke want to bicker with each other, why not take it to private mail or e-mail?

[ 05 October 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rbil
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 582

posted 05 October 2005 04:59 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

I read the argument you guys were having in the last thread, and frankly, it's a bore.

Find another thread I can contribute to? Just because someone isn't posting to a thread doesn't mean they're not reading it. In fact, I was working my way through this thread, as well as the latter three. No, I don't have much to add, beyond my wish not to watch a pissing match between you and VanLuke. Some threads are ones where people just read them in order to learn.

[ 05 October 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]


Well maybe you should have done that - read the thread - rather than coming up with one-liners that only someone at the centre of the universe would understand?

If someone is going to come here and publicly accuse me of saying something I didn't, I'm going to correct them. Or at least, try to correct them. If you find this so "boring" and making the thread difficult to read, I guess you could get one of the "moderators" to moderate this thing. Oh, sorry forgot ... I believe you are one of the moderators.

Cheers.


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 05 October 2005 05:06 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think "get a room" is also commonly understood outside of the Greater Toronto Area.

Perhaps a better idea than "get a room" would be "meet in person". You both live in Vancouver, after all. You could either roll up your sleeves and duke it out like enemies, or give in to temptation and make sweet, sweet love on a pile of old Mandrake boxes.

Either way, Michelle seems to be suggesting, babble isn't the place to air the Docu-drama known as "Quit Implying I'm Stupid, You Asshole!"


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308

posted 05 October 2005 05:10 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bottom line--hardware's a bitch. Whatever OS you're on (except Mac OSes because they only operate with tightly integrated hardware, which is painless but limited), if you have hardware but not drivers, you're in for some hurt.

Just installing Linux on a box with no hardware it doesn't recognize is a snap unless you insist on something like Slackware. Getting most common software installed and updated is pretty easy with most distros as well. I've even had fairly good luck lately with proprietary media codecs and such. But hardware can be a problem.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3336

posted 05 October 2005 05:14 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I love how these four different, lengthy threads show us all how easy it is to switch to Linux!

That depends upon what you want to do. Installing Linux is easy, these days. Word processing, accessing the Internet, email, basic office chores are fairly straight forward. Windows games are almost impossible and multimedia still has a way to go. Both of those are because of proprietary conflicts.

Remember, Linux is the kernel. That's it. That's all of it. Everything else is files and applications that run on the Linux kernel; some better, some worse.

Using many Linux applications is as easy as those on any other OS, usually point and click. Firefox on Linux is as Firefox on Windows or Mac. Ditto for many open sourced programs. Configuring Linux apps is usually a matter of point and click.

However, there's line instructions and programming. Most Windows users can't do that well either. DOS has gone from Windows, but I can remember when DOS scared the bejezus out of people. And the registry? Most Windows users can't install it or configure it with any kind of success, so I wonder why they point fingers at Linux.

The *nix file system is organized differently than Windows/DOS. One has to get used to it. We also use / rather than \. Moving around the file system is easy and makes a lot of sense, when you get accustomed to it.

But, as radiorahim suggests, one can use Linux for years without understanding the internal workings; just like Windows.

One more thing. Everybody that logs into Babble is using Linux. Easy, isn't it.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Yukoner
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5787

posted 05 October 2005 05:15 PM      Profile for Yukoner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Magoo, you slay me.

We should go out for pints one day....do you still make it out to Sarnia?

We could meet at *ahem* The Riverport.

Edit: For spellun

[ 05 October 2005: Message edited by: Yukoner ]


From: Um, The Yukon. | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
Babbler # 621

posted 05 October 2005 05:15 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Magoo: HAHAHAHA!
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rbil
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 582

posted 05 October 2005 05:22 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:

Perhaps a better idea than "get a room" would be "meet in person". You both live in Vancouver, after all.

Vancouver and Vancouver Island are geographically separated by a body of water known as the Strait of Georgia. You might find this useful ...

http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/1550413929/qid=1128543829/sr=1-40/ref=sr_1_0_40/702-3597484-9780851

And if you want to contribute the cost of the ferry and a room at the Hotel Vancouver, I'd glady go and meet VanLuke in person. Until then, why don't you also find a more appropriate thread to play in. Your contributions thus far have been what I usually see in your contributions - much bullshit and little else.


Cheers.


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Yukoner
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5787

posted 05 October 2005 05:26 PM      Profile for Yukoner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'd be willing to chip in a few bucks. Can you capture the event on video, in exchange?
From: Um, The Yukon. | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
rbil
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 582

posted 05 October 2005 05:30 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Yukoner:
I'd be willing to chip in a few bucks. Can you capture the event on video, in exchange?

Why video? Mr. Magoo can pay your trip down too and you can see a live event.

Cheers.


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Raos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5702

posted 05 October 2005 05:31 PM      Profile for Raos     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by radiorahim:
Installing Xandros is a matter of boot from CD disk, maybe six mouse clicks, reboot...done.

That's why I've always recommended that newbies try installing on a "junque box" first...so that your first Linux box is basically a "toy" that you play with.

As you get better and used to the "new" way of doing things, eventually you give the "evil empire" a toss. For some folks that process will take months...for others it'll take years. Each to their own. It took me several years to give the evil empire a toss.


I tried Xandros for a few minutes while I was converting to linux, and I liked it, but it was quite working the way I wanted it, so I moved on. I think I'll buy a copy of Xandros when I have money and a desktop.

Hehehe, I wish I had had a junk box to play with first. My first attempt at linux involved diving headlong in with a laptop running integrated wireless networking, and about 5 different linux distros. In retrospect, perhaps not the most thought out decision I've made, but it all worked out, and really only took me a week to stick it to the "evil empire".


From: Sweet home Alaberta | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2777

posted 05 October 2005 06:11 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
rbil...there's a wee problem with sidescroll on the link you posted.

Its one of the irritating problems with the web BBS software used here when you post a long URL.

[ 05 October 2005: Message edited by: radiorahim ]


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7039

posted 05 October 2005 07:08 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle, fairness is a beautiful thing.

I shall leave it at that except to say that apparently you have not read the MANY other forums dealing with Linux I have posted on for I have NEVER had such an exchange on a LINUX forum.

As a matter of fact it often was a wonderful retreat for me when I didn't want to post on babble anymore and yet didn't want to leave. To participate in a LINUX thread was for me the thing to do. There were never any arguments, not heated ones either.

I've heard other babblers say similar things about wanting to leave and yet they don't, "can't" .... I heard it compared to an addiction.

Anyway....

I shall only add that thanks to a link Cougyr posted I ended up on a beautiful site with a spirit that appears to me very civilised (as expressed quite clearly in the rules) and a relaxed atmosphere.

They don't mind that I can't handle the task of an 8 year old (pretty dumb for a 63 year old, ain't it?)is said (and this comment is what started the whole brouhaha) to do in an hour what I have been unable to do within weeks.

They offered help constructively without talking down to me.

I read a beautiful tag line there and shall leave it at that.

This is no flounce as I'm not leaving babble for good; I don't know when I'll be back and I'm pretty sure I will be.

In the meantime sayonara and thanks to people like (not necessarily in order) Cougyr, radiorahim, WingNut, Rufus and somebody's name at the tip of my tongue (with a W?) plus some others.

radiorahim is right about the speed and I got Mandriva working on the "other" box. Sometimes when I feel like it I boot up the better one with a live CD. Or even the older machine. I like booting into Dyne:Bolic, for instance. I like it. Rufus showed me that one; thanks.

I've learned a lot in the few weeks since I actually got to do something with a LINUX based system.

Logging on to babble, Michelle, was the first thing I ever did with a LINUX based system. Just in case it escaped your notice.

And I've said it before and say it one last time: rbil has helped me tremendously and most generously given his time. A considerable amount of it. I wouldn't know how to access my old FAT 32 HDD if it wasn't for him. That's just one example of what he taught me. Thank you again.

Ok, so I should have bought a book and AE emphasised that, but only lately. Maybe some of you have never heard me complain about how scarce funds are in my pockets. But it's true. But I bought a book yesterday, of all things about FEDORA (which AE said to avoid). I bought it in a discount store and took this because it was the most recent one they had on any LINUX flavour, published 2004. (In any case published books are usually about the commercial distros)

Sam's Teach Yourself Fedora in 24 Hours.

I'm hoping that most of the stuff relates to other Linux flavours as well. Certainly the command line stuff must be the same.

It's got a CD with it but I'm reluctant to walk away from Mandriva. It's the distro of 9 I tried I got the farthest. But then there was the comment of Cougyr about getting a CD instead of a d/l. Maybe if I find another hdd in the lane.

This book comes out of my food money and that ain't plenty. Naive of me to believe though I could master such an O/S without studying it systematically. (I started with DOS; so I know about CLI and its pain)

I believed (and maybe I should continue to according to radirahim above) that a GUI would let me do all the things I want to do with a computer. Learn how to use GIMP, but I'm not even that good in PS and would expect that from a graphics program.

My favourite activity is most certainly not forever tunig up a computer system. It's like guys always lying under their cars. I mostly drove dirty shit boxes.

I shall enjoy the atmosphere at this site for which Cougyr gave me the url on the previous thread. Thanks buddy, for everything.

And as radirahim suggests I'll learn at my own speed. I've used Windows for so long, so what if it takes months?

http://www.linuxquestions.org

Ciao


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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Babbler # 3336

posted 05 October 2005 07:31 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
VanLuke, I hope you keep checking into Babble. You have made a lot of contributions. Besides, we old guys (I'm 64) have to stick together.
From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
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posted 05 October 2005 08:39 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Vanluke if you're still around...I think you'll find the book somewhat helpful with Mandriva.

Fedora is basically "Red Hat" and is what's called an "RPM-based" distro because it uses the Red Hat Package Management" system for doing software installs and that kind of thing.

Mandrake/Mandriva and Novell Suse both evolved out of Red Hat so there are similarities.

Xandros, Libranet, Ubuntu/Kubuntu, Linspire and a bunch of others evolved out of the "Debian" flavour of Linux and so do software installs a bit differently.

Mandrake (predecessor of Mandriva) was the first Linux distro I got working reasonably well, so keep at it and gradually you'll pick things up.


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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Babbler # 7039

posted 05 October 2005 08:56 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And I'm kind of in love with her.

But OTH I just powered down from Dyne:Bolic.

I can hear you (especially Cougyr) groan ..... but I looooooove it!

If only I could make it work. .....

It's a live-CD and the nesting doesn't seem to work for me. I'm supposed to be told - as per user manual - to take out the CD, so I can use the burner for its purpose. Dyne:Bolic does not accept 2 CD-ROMs.

It just doesn't happen this way.

Anyway, Dyne:Bolic is gorgeous and any LINUX fan ought to download it and boot from the CD just to play with x-multimedia (or something like that):

WOW

......is all I can say.

It would just be nice to be able to burn the results to CD.

Otherwise, LUMUMBA is tremendous, just like the real Lumumba - an African liberation fighter murdered by US agents.

P.S. I didn't say how long I was going to stay away. But I DO have to take some distance for a while. Babble is taking a lot more time of my life than it should.

I'll be back.

Good to know that radiorahim. So I didn't waste my money on the book and Mandriva sounds great ..... as long as I cna't make Dyne:Bolic to work.

Thank you my friend. I'll be back.


....and nothing stops me from reading.......


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
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posted 05 October 2005 09:13 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well Vanluke you'll be happy to know that I'm using Dyne:bolic on this particular post. I am impressed at how speedy it is for a "live CD" and don't forget that this is a slow machine.

I've read a little bit on the website about the "nesting" stuff. Maybe I'll give it a whirl when I get a chance. If I get it working I'll let you know.

I've got another old "junque" box that's due for a "makeover". I just transferred a bunch of mp3 files off of it over to the removable drive so now I can wipe it at any time

Don't forget that there's also the IRC chat channel that rbil setup.


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
rbil
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Babbler # 582

posted 05 October 2005 10:11 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
VanLuke,

LinuxQuestions.org is alright, but it is literally packed with newbies, who might not be that helpful. :-)

If your ISP carries a decent collection of newsgroups, there's one in particular you should investigate:

alt.os.linux.mandriva

Lounging around that newsgroup are VERY proficient Mandrake/Mandriva users. That is an invaluable resource, imho, for Mandriva users. If someone there can't help you resolve any problems with Mandriva, no one can.

The above mentioned newsgroup is still relatively new because Mandriva is the new name for Mandrake. You can also find the following newsgroup which will remain on UseNet for a good time to come:

alt.os.linux.mandrake

To access UseNet ...

- ask your ISP what their news server is called. They probably post that info on their website somewhere.

- install Knode if it isn't already installed. It's another app that runs under Kontact and will appear as "News" on the left of Kontact, under your existing Mail and Contacts.

- start News/Knode and click Settings, Configure Knode.

- setup a Nick in Indentity. Don't ever use your real Email address, just dummy up something or you'll just be advertising yourself for spam.

- setup Accounts ... click New, and then add the news server your ISP provides.

The first time you go to subscribe to a newsgroup, all available newsgroup offerings will be downloaded from your ISP's news server. You can then search for the 2 I'm recommending.


Cheers.


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
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posted 06 October 2005 11:57 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some new editions of distros are now in the pipe:

Mandriva Linux 2006 is out for members of the Mandriva club...so should soon be generally available for "non club" folks.

Ubuntu Linux Version 5.10 should be out next week. Right now its out in "release candidate".

Suse Linux 10.0 is now out for DVD ISO download

Dynebolic
has put out the second beta of Version 2.0

Its a multimedia "live CD" edition...they're using the "Fluxbox" desktop...download is small 375 MB.

edited to add

Just saw on Slashdot that Mandriva Linux 2006 will be available to "non-club" members on October 13th.

[ 08 October 2005: Message edited by: radiorahim ]


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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posted 09 October 2005 01:53 AM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

Dynebolic
has put out the second beta of Version 2.0

Its a multimedia "live CD" edition...they're using the "Fluxbox" desktop...download is small 375 MB.


Didn't take me long to be back, did it?
It is a bit of an addiction, isn't it?
Anyway ....


I downloaded it and gave it a quick test and I'm afraid to say, I'm disappointed.

Eh, you know this is coming from the local Dyne:Bolic fan! Cougyr even wanted to appoint me as local Dyne:Bolic authority some time ago. Or was it WingNut?

It's just that so many things seem to work better on my 2 machines (P3 and P4) with the previous version I "flew":

Dyne:Bolic 1.4.1

Another one of those little LINUX victories for me is that I downloaded Dyne:Bolic with my Mandriva system and burned it to a CD with the same. The latter was really a piece of cake: The app found an iso file and determined the entire rest of the process for me,

Never had such an easy CD burn. Right clicking on the downloaded file, clicking on k3b-iso and answering a few questions.

Piece of cake. Wow!

But it's good to actually do things with a new system. Getting used to it.

So far I've learned how to surf the net, post on babble (and we all know the importance of this), access my hdds (though it doesn't work with all distros I tried), burn CDs, listen to music, download files, rename and move them, and email.

A few months ago I knew nothing about LINUX.

I think I've came a long way.

And incidentally haven't stayed away a long time from babble. But who would have thunk there's gonna be a new version of Dyne:Bolic.

Anyway, I just find these personal attacks on babble hard to take at times.

"Fluxbox" desktop.

Please radiorahim, or anybody else, explain to me what you mean

The graphics I see on screen?

The many boxes that open?

The way the menu "structure" is arranged?

Or is it a GUI? Is that just another word for 'desktop'?

I have Dyne:Bolic's screen right in front of me on the other monitor and all I detect are minor "cosmetic" changes compared to the previous version I tried and like a lot. Though it kind of looks nice.

It also seems to me that the previous version gave me a lot more permissions (pretty much total power) than this one does. But I haven't given it much time, I admit. On the machine with NTFS file system drives I couldn't even open one. On the other box I can open but not write. Maybe this can be changed, but the previous version was much easier for the novice by being 'wide open'.

It also does not finish the power down process and one has to pull out the CD at next boot up, having hit the power switch before to finish 'exiting'. That's not the case with my previous version.

The problem I have with Dyne:Bolic is that I do not have access to the CD-ROM. Nesting is supposed to permit this but I haven't been able to make it work.

In the meantime .... the more I work with Mandriva, the less likely I am to get rid of her.

I went a certain way with MEPIS, but I've gone way beyond with Mandriva.

But a live CD like Dyne:Bolic ias always an attractive "additional" thing.

It's nice to have a very functional LINUX system on my desk, even though I still use Windoze for most things I do with my computers.

Next big step .... MS shares -I believe it's called- to access my other machine from the LINUX box. And hopefully vice versa.


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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Babbler # 7039

posted 09 October 2005 02:08 AM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The previous post was written on my Windows machine.

This is from my Mandriva box and if this works it is another first for me, the posting of an image under LINUX.

I never bothered with any wall paper in Windows but I really, really like this desktop.

.... well apparently not now

I don't know why it won't paste the url

Here I wanted to try again. Why the hell won't it paste the url but only pastes the url to the site instead of the url of the image hosted?

Really...

... anyway, it's the thunderstorm with the gorgeous blue background.

Let's see if entering by hand will help. It should.

... I know it's just eye candy

[ 09 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
rbil
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posted 09 October 2005 02:11 AM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/
From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brian White
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posted 09 October 2005 03:53 AM      Profile for Brian White   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have used linux for about 4 years. i am happy with it. BUT, it lacks stuff. No instant messaging with webcam support. No wmv support, etc.
I dont know why the linux sellers do not impliment a cross platform messaging service with webcam support. (It must be cross platform because everybody has friends that use windows) and later, they will use that application to cross to linux).
I have 3 friends on the msn network and no way to message them anymore. Kopete used to work until microsoft screwed with msn messenger. They will not give up windows for my messages but they might eventually give it up for a cross platform messenger that was cheaper than windows.
Anyway thats my take on it.
Brian

From: Victoria Bc | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
rbil
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posted 09 October 2005 04:10 AM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Get an update to Kopete. It fixes the problem introduced with MickeyMouse's last upgrade to MSN.

As for webcam support, appears to be getting closer:

http://dot.kde.org/1114847295/1114935998/

WMV:

http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/design7/info.html

[ 09 October 2005: Message edited by: rbil ]


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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posted 09 October 2005 02:41 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Brian White:
. . . used to work until microsoft screwed with . . .

. . . [fill in the blank] Where have I heard that before? Microsoft keeps doing that. It's part of their strategy. The idea is to keep forcing expensive upgrades and sticking it to what little competition they have.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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posted 10 October 2005 12:00 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I got this in my email today and hope this is useful for babblers. (Hard to kick that "babbling habit")

quote:
Over 210 distribution versions are now available for download from LQ ISO. ...The next time you need to download a Linux distribution, head over to http://iso.linuxquestions.org/ to find a fast local mirror. Don't forget to pass the LQ ISO URL on to anyone you think may be interested in downloading Linux.

From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2777

posted 11 October 2005 01:27 AM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nice to see you back Vanluke!

That is indeed a "pretty" desktop

CD burning is one area where Linux knocks the socks off of anything in the Window$ world. K3B will even check the MD5SUM on an ISO before it burns it.

As for Dyne:bolic, there are times when someone "upgrades" something they don't necessarily improve it

On the version of Dyne:bolic that I have they're using the "Windowmaker" desktop (or GUI).

I'm not that familiar with Fluxbox...but that's Cougyr's favourite.

The thing about some of the "alternative" GUI's (other than KDE or Gnome) is that they don't use as many of your computer's resources and are much better to use if you have an older machine.

Dyne:bolic...at least according to the website is designed to run on a Pentium 1/AMD K5 processor with 64 MB RAM. KDE or Gnome would work but would run awfully slow.

As for .wmv's and wma's I have MPlayer working fine with them.

I did show Kopete to some younger folks. They tend to be into instant messaging more than us "older folks" Anyway they were quite fascinated that you could use a single programme to handle all of your different instant messaging services. In the Window$ world you have to use one programme for each IM service.

"Gaim" (the Gnome IM programme) does this too...but don't think it handles IRC and maybe a couple of others.

quote:
. . [fill in the blank] Where have I heard that before? Microsoft keeps doing that. It's part of their strategy. The idea is to keep forcing expensive upgrades and sticking it to what little competition they have.

Yeah, I tried to just setup an MSN messaging account...to talk to some younger family members. I didn't have an account and plan to use Kopete. Couldn't use the M$ website from any browser other than IE. Even tried using IE under Cross Over Office on my Xandros box and it wouldn't let me in. So had to switch to using my one and only Win2K clunker to setup the account...had to download MSN messenger too...yuk...

Now that I've got the MSN account setup I'll wipe MSN messenger software off the Win2K box.

Then next I'll win them over to using Linux


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
rbil
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posted 11 October 2005 02:10 AM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To get an MSN account all you have to do is set up a hotmail account. Don't need to install any Windoze software. At least that is the way it used to be when I first set up an account and still use it with Gaim and Kopete.

Cheers.


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
Babbler # 621

posted 11 October 2005 02:17 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually, Windows users can use Trillian, which is a multi-protocol chat client.

For MSN on Linux AMSN and GAIM definitely also support MSN. AMSN is specifically for the MSN protocol.

I just installed SUSE 9.3 on one of my office desktops. So far, impressed. It looks great and all of the functionality an average user would want is there out of the box. There were just two points where I had to know a little something to make the install work the way I wanted it to. First, the default partition setup wsa to resize the Windows partition and install linux on the rest. I suspect for most people moving from Windows, this might have been ideal. However, I wanted to wipe Windows from the drive and there was no simple toggle to do this. Instead, I had to enter the partitions myself. Since I've done this before, it was no biggie. For a newbie, however, it might have been a problem.

The next point was where Linux didn't detect the office router. I had to go into custom network settings and enter the default gateway IP address by hand. Luckily I knew this already, in part because I have configured other small networks before, in part because the office LAN (which until now was an entirely WINDOWS affair) has had a lot of issues and I've had to gum around with it, so I knew the specific values for this network. But somebody new might have been stuck without internet and very frustrated for a while.

I installed GNOME as the desktop, although SUSE installs many KDE apps by default anyway.

Accessing windows shares on other computers was not intuitive. I've never needed to do this before from Linux. But the only way to get the other computers to show up was to individually connect to them from the GNOME browser by selecting "connect to server" and entering the specific IP address on the LAN (again I had all these memorized), and at this point the volume would be mounted. There was no automatic probing to find these other volumes, which I think most people would need.

Anti-aliasing seems to have come a long way. Most of the apps I dabbled with are quite slick-looking and easy to use. Firefox is pretty much identical to the Windows version. Open Office still takes forever to start up.

At first glance, Linux's font management is still far from elegant, certainly from the user point of view. It's no drag and drop affair.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7039

posted 11 October 2005 02:22 AM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by radiorahim:
[QB]Nice to see you back Vanluke!

Thank you for your kindness.

quote:
On the version of Dyne:bolic that I have they're using the "Windowmaker" desktop (or GUI).

I'm not that familiar with Fluxbox


My problems weren't so much with Fluxbox; they were with not being able to access the hdds, for instance, of the system, something the older version does with no problem. Full read and write permission too. There were some other things which irritated me. And as you know I really loooove Dyne:Bolic.

Maybe I just haven't worked it out how it is done with the upgrade; I didn't try for very long. I'm quite happy with the older version (except that I can't access my burner because I can't make the nesting work.)

quote:
The thing about some of the "alternative" GUI's (other than KDE or Gnome) is that they don't use as many of your computer's resources and are much better to use if you have an older machine.

Would you be so kind ans explain to me (if you can) how I do this in Mandriva? Maybe this would solve a real problem I have with it.

I have this terribly annoying thing which may be related to sytem resources being used more than the old baby can give. (P3 550 MHz 512 MB RAM).

This problem is *intermittent* but can drive me up the wall. Sometimes I have to wait about 10 secs (or more?) for a mouse click to actually work (not talking about calling on an app), it takes that time to e.g. select a file. Somebody suggested to me to disable some of the running processes but the only one I recognise *and* know I don't need is Bluetooth. (Does it use a lot of resources? Is it safe to just disable it?)

Am I ever lucky that I have no desire to use IM: One problem off my shoulders.

[ 11 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
rbil
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Babbler # 582

posted 11 October 2005 10:32 AM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
VanLuke,

If you were to logout and close the KDE session you're in, you'd be presented with a box where you can login again as another user or the same user. At the bottom of that page you'd see a button called Session, or something like that. I'm going from memory and at my age, that is in quick decline. If you click that button, you'll see all the various window managers you have installed in Mandriva and can choose which one you want to use for this session. After choosing and then logging in, your desktop will use that window manager.

There are many different window managers available within the Mandriva repository of packages. If you want Fluxbox, then first go into MCC and install that package, then it will be there as outlined above.

And yes, on your computer with its limited CPU resources it may resolve your hesitating mouse problem to use a more light weight window manager than KDE or Gnome.

Cheers


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rbil
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posted 11 October 2005 12:37 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's a gallery site displaying what various windows managers looks like on Mandriva 2005LE. Includes snapshots of KDE, Gnome, Fluxbox, Blackbox and maybe others (haven't looked through the whole gallery).

http://www.tuxmachines.org/gallery/mdk-10-2


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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posted 11 October 2005 12:42 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
rbil

thank you for the help but KDE must be the only desktop currently available because going through your steps no alternatives were offered. I was asked to log in though (something it does otherwise automatically)

Which desktop would be the "lightest" and can I screw up the whole system by trying to get it and install it?


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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posted 11 October 2005 12:49 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
VanLuke, if you are looking at window managers, take a look at XFce. It is easy to use and configure. I use Fluxbox, but would not recommend it to a new user.
Check the flash demos on the XFce site.

From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7039

posted 11 October 2005 12:55 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cougyr

thanks.

Do I just download it from one of the mirrors and will be instructed what to do?

Or do I go into MCC?

Oh, and which of the 4 should I go for? The smallest one? Or are they all part of the same the same thing?

I haven't downloaded/installed any apps yet

P.S. I would also like to d/l and install the player radiorahim mentioned

[ 11 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
rbil
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Babbler # 582

posted 11 October 2005 01:03 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
ALWAYS use Mandriva's software installation before going elsewhere to get software. The RPMs supplied from Mandriva's various mirror sites are "tuned" for Mandriva and will normally satisfy all required dependencies when installing. One only goes outside the a distro's repository if that distro doesn't provide the software you seek and that's when you can run into what's referred to as "dependency hell". :-)

To install anything in Mandriva, go into MCC and into software installation. You can search for software there and when you find what you want, just go ahead and install it.

You will not screw up your system having other window managers installed. It will simply give you more choices in how you want to run your computer.

Installing other windows managers doesn't mean that after one is installed, that's the one you'll be using automatically. You need to go through the steps I outlined to actually use another window manager.

You might want to do your search on "window manager" to get a listing of all of them available for Mandriva. Some, like Gnome will be fairly large downloads, while others will be much slimmer.

Cheers.


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rbil
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posted 11 October 2005 01:25 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's a guide to window managers for X. You'll see the various window managers available. Those that are much more than simple window managers, but rather whole suites of desktop utilities are really referred to as "Desktops" and they include Gnome and KDE.

http://xwinman.org/

Cheers.


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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posted 11 October 2005 01:26 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Window Managers for X
quote:
Welcome to my guide to window managers and desktop environments for The X Window System, as used mainly by Linux and UNIX operating systems. Here you will find descriptions, screenshots and configuration files for all popular window managers, along with related resources, including a news and discussion area.

From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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posted 11 October 2005 01:40 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks. I see I have my work cut out for me ... a little later.

It didn't return anything for 'window manager' but it lists a lot of entries under xfce.

Hoping that my 2 links to screenshots will work, I'll post them in the next message.


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VanLuke
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posted 11 October 2005 01:40 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://tinypic.com/ei01ad.png

http://tinypic.com/ei01vs.png


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VanLuke
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posted 11 October 2005 01:41 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
arrrg.... not very legible.

There might also be a few entries missing between screenshot 1 and 2

I won't do anything until I know what to do. Maybe I'll read up on it first

Thanks

[ 11 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


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rbil
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posted 11 October 2005 01:46 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by VanLuke:
Thanks. I see I have my work cut out for me ... a little later.

It didn't return anything for 'window manager' but it lists a lot of entries under xfce.

Hoping that my 2 links to screenshots will work, I'll post them in the next message.


See the Find: dropdown box? it's set to "in names". Well there isn't going to be a package called "window manager". But if you change that dropdown to "descriptions", then it'll search not the rpm file names, but the actual descriptions of each package and will provide you with the list you seek.

Cheers.


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rbil
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posted 11 October 2005 01:48 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by VanLuke:
arrrg.... not very legible.

There might also be a few entries missing between screenshot 1 and 2

I won't do anything until I know what to do. Maybe I'll read up on it first

Thanks

[ 11 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


Actually very legible. In FireFox you need to click on the image displayed to zoom in to its full size. :-)

Cheers.


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VanLuke
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posted 11 October 2005 03:24 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Learned something about Firefox; thanks.

I guess I do not have XFce

http://tinypic.com/ei1ac6.png


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rbil
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posted 11 October 2005 04:37 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you want Xfce, they have a Mandriva RPM at their website for download ...

http://www.xfce.org/index.php?page=download&lang=en#binaries

Cheers.


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rasmus
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posted 11 October 2005 07:50 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, the clean amd easy install was too good to be true. Now I'm trying to get my Canon MP730 USB printer to work. The only available drivers are from TurboPrint. I've downloaded and installed the TurboPrint software. I've configure CUPS. Doesn't matter what I do, though, I get messages like:

Unable to open USB device "usb:/dev/usblp0": No such device

lsusb gives:

Bus 001 Device 004: ID 04a9:262f Canon, Inc.
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000

Doesn't matter whether I try through CUPS or lpr, doesn't matter where I print a test page from, it doesn't work. Suggestions?


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Cougyr
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posted 11 October 2005 08:06 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
rasmus raven, my experience has had CUPS and TurboPrint as separate utilities; use one or the other. Does CUPS not show your printer model? It almost sounds like kudzu did not find your printer when you did the install. Sometimes, rebooting will find it.

Edited to add: do some Googling. Sometimes one runs into issues with some printers, because they come from so many different manufacturers. It is rare to find one that won't install, but you may need a driver.

Open a terminal and enter "lpr /etc/fstab". That should print the /etc/fstab file directly, bypassing any intermediary programs. If that doesn't work, the machine isn't finding your printer.

[ 11 October 2005: Message edited by: Cougyr ]


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rbil
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posted 11 October 2005 08:24 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rasmus raven:
Well, the clean amd easy install was too good to be true. Now I'm trying to get my Canon MP730 USB printer to work. The only available drivers are from TurboPrint. I've downloaded and installed the TurboPrint software. I've configure CUPS. Doesn't matter what I do, though, I get messages like:

Unable to open USB device "usb:/dev/usblp0": No such device

lsusb gives:

Bus 001 Device 004: ID 04a9:262f Canon, Inc.
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000

Doesn't matter whether I try through CUPS or lpr, doesn't matter where I print a test page from, it doesn't work. Suggestions?


What does lsmod tell you? Is there USB printer support loaded in the kernel?

If it isn't listed, then add the module to the kernel ... modprobe usblp

You might want to after this reboot the system and then go into cups and see what's happening with it.

Cheers.


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No Yards
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posted 11 October 2005 08:37 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rbil:
ALWAYS use Mandriva's software installation before going elsewhere to get software. The RPMs supplied from Mandriva's various mirror sites are "tuned" for Mandriva and will normally satisfy all required dependencies when installing. One only goes outside the a distro's repository if that distro doesn't provide the software you seek and that's when you can run into what's referred to as "dependency hell". :-)

To install anything in Mandriva, go into MCC and into software installation. You can search for software there and when you find what you want, just go ahead and install it.

You will not screw up your system having other window managers installed. It will simply give you more choices in how you want to run your computer.

Installing other windows managers doesn't mean that after one is installed, that's the one you'll be using automatically. You need to go through the steps I outlined to actually use another window manager.

You might want to do your search on "window manager" to get a listing of all of them available for Mandriva. Some, like Gnome will be fairly large downloads, while others will be much slimmer.

Cheers.



One of the best things about Mandriva is the http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/ site. Go there, fill out the information required step by step, then follow the instructions as to what to cut and paste into your root terminal session.

After you do this, your MCC Software installation list will contain many many more applications, including many 3rd party apps, and even some that have more restrictive licensing requirements.

This means you're not restricted to "just" the "tiny number" of applications provided on the installation CDs (OK, the number of apps on the installation are not exactly a "tiny number", but now you have many more applications which you can install and ununstall at will.

Warning - install applications one or a very few at a time, and look through the detailed information to see where all the files are installed to, and write down the location of the executable file that will need to be run to execute the application (may be more than one with some apps) because when you install these apps, not very many actually bother to add a menu item, so you will have to run the apps manually from the command line or install a menu item yourself.


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rasmus
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posted 11 October 2005 08:49 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rbil:

What does lsmod tell you? Is there USB printer support loaded in the kernel?

If it isn't listed, then add the module to the kernel ... modprobe usblp

You might want to after this reboot the system and then go into cups and see what's happening with it.

Cheers.


lsmod did list usbcore, which I think covers usblp, doesn't it?

At any rate, I've restarted and it seems to work now. Unfortunately, I need TurboPrint because that's the only way to get this printer driver. Now I'll have to pay for it because it's printing an annoying logo on every page.

Thanks for the help.


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rbil
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posted 11 October 2005 09:18 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't think so. usbcore are the core files required and usblp is also required on top of them, as far as I understand it.

Cheers.


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rbil
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posted 11 October 2005 09:23 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No Yards,

I didn't mention easyurpmi because he's already setup to get all his software installations from the ftp mirrors generated by easyurpmi.

And you're quite correct. Reading the description will tell where the binaries are being installed and he should make a note of that. But really, those binaries should end up in his path so what he needs to know is just the name of the application he wants to run.

Cheers


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rbil
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posted 11 October 2005 09:31 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rasmus raven:

lsmod did list usbcore, which I think covers usblp, doesn't it?

At any rate, I've restarted and it seems to work now. Unfortunately, I need TurboPrint because that's the only way to get this printer driver. Now I'll have to pay for it because it's printing an annoying logo on every page.

Thanks for the help.


You might be correct that usblp is part of usbcore, but that might also depend on the distro. If I recall, I had to load usblp separately because it wasn't displayed in usbcore.

In any case, I really dislike the idea of purchasing drivers. :-( Sometimes it feels like the folks behind cups are in cahoots with turboprint. Probably an incorrect assumption, but it feels like it. Some of the inkjet printers sell for little more than what Turboprint charges for the driver!

Cheers.


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VanLuke
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posted 12 October 2005 12:46 AM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rbil:
No Yards,

I didn't mention easyurpmi because he's already setup to get all his software installations from the ftp mirrors generated by easyurpmi.

And you're quite correct. Reading the description will tell where the binaries are being installed and he should make a note of that. But really, those binaries should end up in his path so what he needs to know is just the name of the application he wants to run.

Cheers


I can only *assume* that *he* is me and I wish I knew what the hell you're talking about.

Btw No Yards, your name was the one that eluded me when sying my thank yous above.

Thank you; better late than never.


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radiorahim
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posted 12 October 2005 01:07 AM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
In any case, I really dislike the idea of purchasing drivers. :-( Sometimes it feels like the folks behind cups are in cahoots with turboprint. Probably an incorrect assumption, but it feels like it. Some of the inkjet printers sell for little more than what Turboprint charges for the driver!


It seems that Linux support is best for HP, Epson and Lexmark printers. I've got a cheapie Epson inkjet and haven't had any problems with drivers...and a really ancient 14 year old Okidata laser printer and haven't had any problems with it either.

It seems that Canon printers are a little tricky with Linux?


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VanLuke
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posted 12 October 2005 01:33 AM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I got a Samsung ML 2250, USB or parallel connection. Presently hooked up to my main machine vis USB, therefore easily disconnected/reconnected

It would be a great leap forward if I could print from my Linux machine.

Any suggestions?


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VanLuke
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posted 12 October 2005 01:37 AM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
... the other big hurdle is of course those MS shares, whatever you call the process of connecting 2 machines.


I managed to do this with Win 98 Win XP and Win 2 k machines .... though not necessarily from each machine to any other .... but sort of ....


It'll be very nice when I'll have both my machines (plus another in the future) networked together.

I know rbil, I know.... it's a system about ...

It's a lot more difficult for those of us who haven't followed this for two decades.

cheers


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VanLuke
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posted 12 October 2005 01:42 AM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I've found learning a new O/S and new ways to do things to be alot of fun...and coupled with the fact that I'm sticking it to the "evil empire" makes it even more fun.

Got to love these words!


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Cougyr
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posted 12 October 2005 03:11 AM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rasmus raven:
At any rate, I've restarted and it seems to work now. Unfortunately, I need TurboPrint because that's the only way to get this printer driver. Now I'll have to pay for it because it's printing an annoying logo on every page.

I doubt that you would have to pay for a driver. Try every Canon driver that came with your distro. Often, last year's model will work fine. You may even find one of those old ascii drivers do the trick. As I said, try Googling around; somebody has to have found a solution that will work for you.


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rbil
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posted 12 October 2005 11:30 AM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by VanLuke:
... the other big hurdle is of course those MS shares, whatever you call the process of connecting 2 machines.


I managed to do this with Win 98 Win XP and Win 2 k machines .... though not necessarily from each machine to any other .... but sort of ....


It'll be very nice when I'll have both my machines (plus another in the future) networked together.

I know rbil, I know.... it's a system about ...

It's a lot more difficult for those of us who haven't followed this for two decades.

cheers


VanLuke, I'll give you some pointers. You'll need to have smbclient running on your Linux box and it'll have to belong to the same workgroup that your existing Windoze boxes belong to. Then install a software package called smb4k, which is a GUI program that will sniff out all the workgroup shares on your LAN. All the shares on your Windoze boxes will be listed and as su you'll be able to click on any share and mount it to a directory on your Linux box. Access that directory and you'll have access to those files on your Windoze box.

You can also share your printer from your Windoze box. But you'll still need a Linux printer driver to be able to use that shared printer. You can go to http://cups.org to see whether there is a native Linux driver available for your printer.

As to how long I've been using Linux ... I'm embarassed to admit to the number of failed attempts over the years I made to stick with Linux and dump Windoze. I have not been using Linux that long in a serious and methodical way and it is only this last attempt that has brought me success in this regards. But I do admit to having considerable computer experience and for a couple of decades have run my computers on systems other than DOS. I ran MS Xenix for a time so that I could multitask with my computer while running a FidoNet BBS in the community. I also used QNX for a time and was a big fan and serious user of OS/2. It was through that experience that I really got to hate MickeyMouse but was still unable to escape its clutches. I dabbled in Linux from time to time, until I'd ultimately do something really stupid and the whole system would come crumbling down and I'd swear at it and go back to the warm and fuzzy feeling of Windoze only to continue to hate the Windoze experience and long for a viable alternative. It's only relatively recently that Linux has become that viable alternative for me and I'm finally permanently free of MickeyMouse and it's toy operating systems.

Cheers.

--
To crash a Windows computer, all you have to do is work on it.
To crash a Linux computer, you have to really work at it.


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radiorahim
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posted 12 October 2005 10:21 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
and was a big fan and serious user of OS/2. I

It seems that just about every "former" Commodore Amiga and OS/2 fan that I've ever met or talked to is a Linux user today

quote:
.. the other big hurdle is of course those MS shares, whatever you call the process of connecting 2 machines.

File and print sharing between Window$ and Linux...especially print sharing is the one thing that Xandros really shines at. Although like you Vanluke, I learned Window$/Linux file and print sharing using Mandrake. The file sharing wasn't too hard once I got the hang of it but the print sharing I found a little bit harder.

But once I did get the hang of file sharing I found Mandrake much easier to work with moving files between machines. It just did things a little differently.

One little bonus I liked, is that when moving files between machines on my Mandrake box, I could see the speed of file transfers on my internal network...something you don't see on Window$.

[ 12 October 2005: Message edited by: radiorahim ]


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radiorahim
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posted 13 October 2005 02:55 AM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The new version of Ubuntu Linux (5.10) is now out!

Distrowatch - Ubuntu Linux

And...for KDE fans the new version of Kubuntu Linux 5.10 is also out!

Distrowatch - Kubuntu


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radiorahim
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posted 14 October 2005 09:22 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The freebee version of Mandriva 2006 is out now but only for network install.

You can download the boot.iso file (12.5 MB) and do an installation via FTP or HTTP.

The idea is you boot your machine from the boot CD and then it connects to Mandriva's FTP or HTTP site and does an installation.

Mandriva 2006 item on distrowatch.org

Suse used to do things this way and I tried an FTP install once. It does take a long time to do and my end result was a bit on the buggy side.

Mandriva might have things working a bit better though...dunno!

You can always wait for the CD ISO's to come out.

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: radiorahim ]


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VanLuke
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posted 14 October 2005 09:25 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just out of curiosity:
Why is the one speed faster than the other?
http://tinypic.com/ekf9fc.png

Ooops, it's not visible.

The receiving speed is faster than the sending one and that baffles me

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


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VanLuke
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posted 14 October 2005 09:32 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have a Samsung ML 2250 and searched for it and got this:

http://tinypic.com/ekfclt.png

So I guess I'm out of luck. Or is that HP driver supposed to work with my printer?

Thanks rbil for pointing this out to me.

The shares work because you helped me set it up on the irc channel. I had forgotten that. Thanks again.

It seems that I'm making some steady (even if slow) progress and I'm also getting used to doing things with Mandriva by just doing ordinary things

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


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Cougyr
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posted 14 October 2005 09:39 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by VanLuke:
Just out of curiosity:
Why is the one speed faster than the other?
. . . The receiving speed is faster than the sending one and that baffles me

That used to be common with modems. With dsl, I don't know.


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VanLuke
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posted 14 October 2005 09:44 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's obscured by the PrintScreen dialogue box but the difference is enormous.

I can access the Win 2K machine from the Linux box but vice versa it does not work.

Searching for P3 (used to be its name with Win 98 installed) doesn't do any good.

Any hint how I can get this to work the other way (even though this is a Linux thread)? Mandriva gave it a name I think, but I can't remember. Could it be ZoneAlarm (but I entered the IP number it had and should still have; Telus hasn't changed them in a long time it seems)?

The workgroup name is the same on both machines

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


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VanLuke
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posted 14 October 2005 09:57 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://tinypic.com/ekg46p.png

Hopefully this is an unobstructed view.

How can it receive more than is sent?

Should we start another thread as this one is very sluggish?

Hint, hint radiorahim....


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radiorahim
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posted 14 October 2005 09:58 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Most DSL services are "ADSL" services ... in otherwords "asynchronous". Upload speeds are usually much slower than download speeds.

You can test your internet connection at DSL Reports Speed Test

Your browser has to be Java enabled in order for it to work.

As for your Samsung ML2250 there is a Linux driver on the Samsung website

Just go to Samsung.ca and look under support, drivers and do a search and you'll find it. Kept getting sidescroll.

Installation of the driver might be a little on the tricky side but its nice to see that Samsung is providing Linux support for its products.

edited to fix sidescroll problem

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: radiorahim ]


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VanLuke
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posted 14 October 2005 10:16 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
thanks. I'll check out the Samsung site tomorrow.

I know asynchronous means different speeds but how can it receive a lot more than what is sent?

I was playing a song which is on the other machine; so there was no upload.

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


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rbil
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posted 14 October 2005 10:23 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by VanLuke:
Just out of curiosity:
Why is the one speed faster than the other?
http://tinypic.com/ekf9fc.png

Ooops, it's not visible.

The receiving speed is faster than the sending one and that baffles me

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


Your ISP throttles down your upload speed. This saves bandwidth for the ISP with the assumption that most users are downloading data rather than uploading it. Of course this doesn't take into account users that may want to run servers on their home computers (sometimes against the ISP's rules of conduct) or participate into peer-to-peer networking.

Cheers.


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VanLuke
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posted 14 October 2005 10:26 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
rbil

So was I uploading to the Linux machine via the internet?

I would have thought I was downloading from my Win 2K machine.

It's not really important. The nice thing is that it works.

Now if I could only make it work the other way.

Have you got any idea what the deafult name for my Linux box is?


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rbil
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posted 14 October 2005 10:28 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by VanLuke:
thanks. I'll check out the Samsung site tomorrow.

I know asynchronous means different speeds but how can it receive a lot more than what is sent?

I was playing a song which is on the other machine; so there was no upload.

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


The web is based on client-server technology. Your browser issues a "get" and the web server sends back the request. If your "get" involves getting a web page or a JPG image, that takes up just a few bytes, however the download could be very large depending on the size of the object being sent back to you. Your "received" data should be much greater than your "sent" data, unless of course, you have a server and your end is the one doing the servicing.

Cheers.


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rbil
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posted 14 October 2005 10:36 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by VanLuke:
rbil

So was I uploading to the Linux machine via the internet?

I would have thought I was downloading from my Win 2K machine.

It's not really important. The nice thing is that it works.

Now if I could only make it work the other way.

Have you got any idea what the deafult name for my Linux box is?



To make it work "the other way" from your Linux box to your Windoze box(es), your Linux box will need to have a samba server installed. Once you install the samba server, you will be able to setup shares on your Linux box that will be accessable from your Windoze boxes.

The samba server is configured in the smb.conf file. Mandriva 2005LE is a bit confusing in this regards because when the samba server is installed it will create a directory in /etc called samba3.0 or some such name. Sorry going from memory here. In that directory will be a conf file, BUT the samba server will by default use the /etc/smb.conf file. I'd advise that once you install the samba server you copy the smb.conf from /etc/samba3.x to /etc/samba.

To make things easier in terms of configuring samba, you have a couple of options to help you rather than doing it with direct editing of the smb.conf file, although the file is pretty well commented. You can install swat, which will give you a GUI frontend to configuring samba and it'll overwrite smb.conf or a more powerful way to deal with configuring your Mandriva box is to use the incredible power of webmin, which will let you control all aspects of your Linux box, through your web browser, both locally or remotely if you so choose.

Cheers.


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VanLuke
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posted 14 October 2005 10:40 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
thanks.

So if I understood this, smb4k called upon Konqueror to download Brick in the Wall from my MS share.

It's not really important.

But could you tell me please where I can find out the name of my Linux machine so I can (hopefully) connect to it from my Windows machine?

Looking a MCC I can't figure out where this might be

quote:

To make it work "the other way" from your Linux box to your Windoze box(es)

That way it works.

It's Win 2K to the Linux box it doesn't work

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
rbil
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posted 14 October 2005 10:46 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Open a terminal and type ...

echo $HOSTNAME

and see what it tells you.

Cheers.


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VanLuke
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posted 14 October 2005 10:47 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
lu@localhost

So do I tell Windows 'localhost' is the machine to look for?

It doesn't find anything neither does it find anything when I enter the IP addr of the machine (at least the one it had the last time I looked; don't know how to find that out either)

When I expand Workgroup it only lists the Win 2K machine

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


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rbil
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posted 14 October 2005 10:53 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by VanLuke:
lu@localhost

So do I tell Windows 'localhost' is the machine to look for?


Nope, I guess you didn't actually setup a hostname when you installed. It doesn't matter anyway because you need to install the samba server as I outlined above. Windoze won't be able to access shares on the Linux box without that server installed and running, even if it knows the name of your Linux box.

Cheers.


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VanLuke
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posted 14 October 2005 10:59 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought that's what I used to transfer Pink Floyd.

Or is the "SMB/CIFS Share browser" something else?

Do I have to tell Linux also what I want to share (like in Windows)?


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
rbil
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posted 14 October 2005 10:59 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
It's Win 2K to the Linux box it doesn't work

VanLuke, I think we're both looking at this from opposite directions. :-)

I assume that you're presently able to access shares on your Windoze box from your Linux box using smb4k, correct?

Now you want to access shares on your Linux box from your Windoze box, correct?

This will require that your Linux box is running the samba server as I outlined earlier.

So far, you've installed the smbclient.

I should add, that once your Linux box is sharing its shares within your workgroup, those shares will appear in smb4k also, as smb4k browses for all smb shares available on your LAN.

Cheers.

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: rbil ]


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VanLuke
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posted 14 October 2005 11:09 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rbil:
[QB]

I assume that you're presently able to access shares on your Windoze box from your Linux box using smb4k, correct?

Now you want to access shares on your Linux box from your Windoze box, correct?


Exact

quote:
This will require that your Linux box is running the samba server as I outlined earlier.

Thanks. I didn't know I only had the client. I'll try to do this tomorrow as I'm too tired now.

If successful I'll let you know

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: VanLuke ]


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 14 October 2005 11:14 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sounds like your Linux machine was not given a name.

Samba can be a bit confusing for someone new to Linux, so for now I would suggest that the easiest thing for you to do to see your Linux box from a Windows box is to install a program such as Filezilla.

You will need to know your Linux box IP address. Do this by opening a terminal session and typing "netstat -na |more".

You will see a bunch of IP addresses under the "Local address" column ... some are 0.0.0.0, some are 127.0.0.1 ... ignore those, the one you are interested in will have real numbers such as 192.168.0.2 or some such ... make a note of this address.

Download, install and run Filezilla ... find "site manager" in the menu option (probably under the file menu, but maybe under view ... I forget right now.)

Create a new site and use the noted IP address as the "Host". From the drop down list for "Servertype" select "sftp".

Use an ID and password from your Linux box... I'd use your regular user ID, but root will worl as well.

Click "Connect" and it should open a window of the home directory of the user you logged in as ... you can then transfer files back and forth between machines.

Samba is probably easier to use if installde correctly, as you can use your MS Explorer to connect and transfer and operate on files, but in your case you will need to do a bit of Linux and Samba configuration, where Filezilla will allow file transfer and some simple file editing with minimal configuration.


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 14 October 2005 11:24 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To Clarify for Van Luke.

smb4k: smbclient that runs on a Linux box to allow it to see and attach to Windows shared directories.

Samba: smbserver that runs on a Linux box and allows Windows to connect (usually via MS Explorer) to a Linux shared Directory.

FileZilla: An ssh utility that runs on Windows and allows Windows to log into a Linux box as a user and use the ssh protocol (which is usually used as a secure telnet like session) to transfer files. Handy as in almost all modern Linux distros ssh comes installed and active by default.

Konqueror: A Linux browser / file manager that includes an SMB client that can connect to a Windows shared directory (similar to smb4k.)


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
rbil
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Babbler # 582

posted 14 October 2005 11:25 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
It doesn't find anything neither does it find anything when I enter the IP addr of the machine (at least the one it had the last time I looked; don't know how to find that out either)

Again, go into a terminal, then su to root. Use the command ifconfig to see the ip address assigned to your ethx nic.

You might find it more convenient to assign a fixed ip address to your Linux box. In fact, I like to use fixed ip addresses for all my computers that act as servers in any way.

With a smb network it isn't all that important because the Master Browser will store the information of the computers within your workgroup. But if you want to remotely access any of your boxes from outside your LAN (over the Internet), you'll want to open up the appropriate ports in your router's firewall and those ports are tagged to the ip addresses of the computers running the services you want to access. Therefore, fixed ip addresses are going to be necessary.

BTW, when you setup the samba server you can elect that server to be the Master Browser and that can speedup and uncomplicate the process of finding shares within your workgroup rather than leaving the various computers to jostle for the role of Master Browser when they boot up.

Cheers.


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radiorahim
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posted 15 October 2005 12:40 AM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Started a fresh thread


Moving to Linux Part V


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