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Author Topic: Two More Just Died.
redflag
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posted 03 October 2006 08:02 PM      Profile for redflag     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CBC Article

quote:
The attack occurred in the Panjwaii district, which had largely been cleared of Taliban insurgents in recent weeks as part of Operation Medusa.

"The last thing that the Taliban want is success in the final phase of Op Medusa," said Lewis, referring to the reconstruction effort.

"That is the phase that will sway the inhabitants one way or the other in terms of whether they want to support their own government or the Taliban," he added.


Sigh.

I really don't get how people can be such brazen liars. I seriously call into question the notion that just because you've scared them off for a little while doesn't mean they aren't coming back. Am I the only one who seems to think that they've really fooled themselves if they believe that the Taliban isn't going to be able to come back in this area? All they have to do is wait until the Canadians leave and they win.

quote:
In an incident earlier Tuesday, Canadian troops escaped injury after a suicide bomber on a motorcycle attacked near Kandahar city.

I realize that we won't really know for sure whether or not the Taliban has really been beaten in Panjwaii until next spring, but something tells me that they are going to come back next spring and they're probably going to have friends and more resources. For all we know, they might have the resources to work all year round by now.


From: here | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Unreasonable
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posted 03 October 2006 08:10 PM      Profile for Unreasonable        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I really don't get how people can be such brazen liars. I seriously call into question the notion that just because you've scared them off for a little while doesn't mean they aren't coming back. Am I the only one who seems to think that they've really fooled themselves if they believe that the Taliban isn't going to be able to come back in this area? All they have to do is wait until the Canadians leave and they win.


Where is the lie? On a battlefield, there is more then one battle to be fought, the easiest one is the physical battle, the actual shooting. The hardest is to gain support of the local population. The insurgents fear this the most, as it would mean the end of them... Not an end that fighters like either. More like a fizzle, and a quiet exit stage left.

Of course, to do that requires time. Time some would rather us not have... TIme some wish we had alot more of.

Rest in Peace Cpl Mitchell and Sgt Gillam.

[ 03 October 2006: Message edited by: Unreasonable ]


From: Who cares | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 03 October 2006 08:12 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Are you enlisted or planning too?
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Unreasonable
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posted 03 October 2006 08:15 PM      Profile for Unreasonable        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Are you enlisted or planning too?

Take a closer look at my name, and you will know the answer... I will be there soon enough.

Reason.

[ 03 October 2006: Message edited by: Unreasonable ]


From: Who cares | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 03 October 2006 08:15 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
lol

[ 03 October 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 03 October 2006 08:19 PM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One of the lies is that Taliban are "just" terrorists. The other is that they are small in number and can all be killed, eventually.

Eric Margolis has an interesting column on Afghanistan, Pakistan and Taliban "insurgents".

quote:
...............

Last Wednesday, President George Bush hosted a tense dinner for Karzai and Musharraf, who detest one another. As the Afghan War goes increasingly badly for the western powers, Karzai keeps blaming Musharraf for allowing Taliban to operate inside Pakistan and launch cross-border attacks on Afghanistan. Musharraf fired back that Karzai was a figurehead who had no control of his country. Both accusations are true.

Tribal politics lie at the heart of their dispute. The 30 million Pashtuns (or Pathans), the world’s largest tribal society, are divided between Afghanistan and Pakistan by an artificial border, the Durand Line, drawn by divide and conquer British imperialists.

Pashtuns account for 50-60% of Afghanistan’s 30 million people. Taliban is an organic part of the Pashtun people. The western powers and their figurehead ruler, President Karzai, are not just fighting `Taliban terrorists,’ but a coalition of Pushtun tribes and other allied nationalist movements. In effect, most of the Pashtun people.

The other half of the divided Pashtuns live just across the Durand Line in Pakistan, comprising 15-20% of its population. Pashtuns occupy many senior posts in Pakistan’s military and intelligence services. Pashtuns, including anti-western resistance fighters, never accepted and simply ignore the artificial border bifurcating their tribal homeland.

Washington keeps demanding Musharraf crack down on Pakistan’s pro-Taliban Pashtuns. But Washington fails to understand that too much pressure on these fierce warriors could quickly ignite a major historic threat to Pakistan’s national integrity: a Pashtun independence movement seeking to join the Pashtun of Afghanistan and Pakistan in a new state, Pashtunistan.
......................



From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 03 October 2006 08:24 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Unreasonable:
The insurgents

Please define insurgents as you mean it and explain who they are insurging against?


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Kevin_Laddle
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posted 03 October 2006 08:27 PM      Profile for Kevin_Laddle   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More blood on Busharper's hands...
From: ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST STATE. ASK THE FAMILIES OF THE QANA MASSACRE VICTIMS. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Unreasonable
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posted 03 October 2006 08:27 PM      Profile for Unreasonable        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just as Hezbollah is not "just" a terrorist organisation. However, the employment of terror against civilians is a legit tactic in their books, just as it is in much of the "Taliban".

So, you speak of the Pastun people specifically. Do you know how many tribes exsist within just that one sub-set? We are well aware of the situation in Afghanistan... It is not exactly a secret. Google and a few people who are actually Afghans go a long way towards opening one's eyes to the situation.


From: Who cares | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
redflag
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posted 03 October 2006 08:28 PM      Profile for redflag     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Unreasonable:

Where is the lie? On a battlefield, there is more then one battle to be fought, the easiest one is the physical battle, the actual shooting. The hardest is to gain support of the local population. The insurgents fear this the most, as it would mean the end of them... Not an end that fighters like either. More like a fizzle, and a quiet exit stage left.

Of course, to do that requires time. Time some would rather us not have... TIme some wish we had alot more of.

Rest in Peace Cpl Mitchell and Sgt Gillam.

[ 03 October 2006: Message edited by: Unreasonable ]


So your saying that you honestly believe that killing afghans while making a mess of their country is going to actually solve something do you?


From: here | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Unreasonable
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posted 03 October 2006 08:30 PM      Profile for Unreasonable        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin_Laddle:
More blood on Busharper's hands...


Support our troops, don't vote for anyone that calls us terrorists.


From: Who cares | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 03 October 2006 08:35 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Unreasonable:
Support our troops, don't vote for anyone that calls us terrorists.

I see you can define insurgents nor say who they are insurging against.

I say support our troops and don't vote any body who sends them there, where they have no business being and getting killed for rich war mongers.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Unreasonable
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posted 03 October 2006 08:36 PM      Profile for Unreasonable        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Joshua Kubinec:

So your saying that you honestly believe that killing afghans while making a mess of their country is going to actually solve something do you?


Do more study on the subject, then I will get back to you. Your lack of knowledge that you are standing on, and making your point on would make it difficult to debate with you...

The primary goal is not killing at this point, it is an unfortunate neccessity in light of the fact that everytime we or NGOs attempt to start a reconstruction project they get killed. Security first, then reconstruction.

Of course, reconstruction is not something that would work to the insurgent's advantage. In fact, it would destabilise them, unless of course, their actual goals were to free Afghanistan of the west... If that was the case, the cheapest, easiest thing to do would be to disappear for a couple of years let us finish reconstruction, then we will leave (al la BiH).


From: Who cares | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Kevin_Laddle
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posted 03 October 2006 08:37 PM      Profile for Kevin_Laddle   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Unreasonable:

The insurgents fear this the most, as it would mean the end of them...



The "INSURGENTS"??? In Afghanistan???????? Give me a fucking break. Why don't you take a look at the dictionary, you neo-con apologist?

Insurgent
Noun
Person who challenges the current state of affairs. An insurgent group is one that seeks to overthrow the present leadership or regime and install a new order.

The people you label "insurgents" are anything but. They are para-military forces rightfully defending their homeland against imperialist aggression. In fact, I would argue that it is our soldiers who are actually the insurgents, and have been since 2001. After all, it was American-coalition forces who came in and sought to "overthrow the present leadership or regime and install a new order".

And you neo-cons have bit off more than you can chew. Here we are some 5 years later, and the mujahideen are wiping the floor with our guys. The Soviet Empire was brought to its knees by these legendary warriors. We don't stand a chance. Unlike you, I support our troops, and that's why i demand we bring them the fuck home now, safe and sound. ENOUGH WITH BUSHWARS!!!!!!!!!

[ 03 October 2006: Message edited by: Kevin_Laddle ]


From: ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST STATE. ASK THE FAMILIES OF THE QANA MASSACRE VICTIMS. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Unreasonable
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posted 03 October 2006 08:37 PM      Profile for Unreasonable        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by remind:

I see you can define insurgents nor say who they are insurging against.

I say support our troops and don't vote any body who sends them there, where they have no business being and getting killed for rich war mongers.



I can easily define aan insurgent. Can you?


From: Who cares | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Kevin_Laddle
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posted 03 October 2006 08:38 PM      Profile for Kevin_Laddle   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Unreasonable:


I can easily define aan insurgent. Can you?


I just did shit head, and it's not favourible to your cause.


From: ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST STATE. ASK THE FAMILIES OF THE QANA MASSACRE VICTIMS. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
ghlobe
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posted 03 October 2006 08:44 PM      Profile for ghlobe        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin_Laddle:

the mujahideen are wiping the floor with our guys. The Soviet Empire was brought to its knees by these legendary warriors.

Which Mojahedins? The ones within the Karzai government, or those that are fighting it?


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Kevin_Laddle
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posted 03 October 2006 08:48 PM      Profile for Kevin_Laddle   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ghlobe:

Which Mojahedins? The ones within the Karzai government, or those that are fighting it?


It's really irrelevant. The only difference between the two is that one of them has promised Chimperor Disgustus easements for American corporations to lay pipeline for oil exports.


From: ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST STATE. ASK THE FAMILIES OF THE QANA MASSACRE VICTIMS. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Unreasonable
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posted 03 October 2006 08:48 PM      Profile for Unreasonable        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin_Laddle:


The "INSURGENTS"??? In Afghanistan???????? Give me a fucking break. Why don't you take a look at the dictionary, you neo-con apologist?

Insurgent
Noun
Person who challenges the current state of affairs. An insurgent group is one that seeks to overthrow the present leadership or regime and install a new order.

The people you label "insurgents" are anything but. They are para-military forces rightfully defending their homeland against imperialist aggression. In fact, I would argue that it is our soldiers who are actually the insurgents, and have been since 2001. After all, it was American-coalition forces who came in and sought to "overthrow the present leadership or regime and install a new order".

And you neo-cons have bit off more than you can chew. Here we are some 5 years later, and the mujahideen are wiping the floor with our guys. The Soviet Empire was brought to its knees by these legendary warriors. We don't stand a chance. Unlike you, I support our troops, and that's why i demand we bring them the fuck home now, safe and sound. ENOUGH WITH BUSHWARS!!!!!!!!!

[ 03 October 2006: Message edited by: Kevin_Laddle ]



Wow, enough with the propaganda already. Glad you are so easily excitable.

Oh, I am a troop. Some time before Christmas I will be in Afghanistan. For the record, this thing is not what you think it is. But you are not ready, nor are you willing to see anything but your own beliefs.

The title insurgents stands. The government is recognised by the world body, and more Afghans then you imagine. If you knew anything at all about history, you would know why we are there.


From: Who cares | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Kevin_Laddle
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posted 03 October 2006 08:52 PM      Profile for Kevin_Laddle   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Unreasonable:


Wow, enough with the propaganda already. Glad you are so easily excitable.

Oh, I am a troop. Some time before Christmas I will be in Afghanistan. For the record, this thing is not what you think it is. But you are not ready, nor are you willing to see anything but your own beliefs.

The title insurgents stands. The government is recognised by the world body, and more Afghans then you imagine. If you knew anything at all about history, you would know why we are there.



You are there the same reasons the Soviets were before you; serving war-mongering, greedy elites who this time happened to be stationed in Washington rather than Moscow.

I can tell the military is doing a first rate job at indoctrinating the their tools of war.


From: ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST STATE. ASK THE FAMILIES OF THE QANA MASSACRE VICTIMS. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Unreasonable
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posted 03 October 2006 08:53 PM      Profile for Unreasonable        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Here we are some 5 years later, and the mujahideen are wiping the floor with our guys.

Interesting, I missed this peice of fiction. Lets see... The past 3 months, 11 and several wounded (including a friend) to 1,500 (ish).

I'm afraid I am confused by your definition of "wiping the floor with...". The only real danger to success, and actually rebuilding Afghanistan to the way it was pre-soviet invasion is people like you.

It's ok to dislike violence, but on grander issues, it helps if you have at least some details.


From: Who cares | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Unreasonable
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posted 03 October 2006 08:55 PM      Profile for Unreasonable        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin_Laddle:


You are there the same reasons the Soviets were before you; serving war-mongering, greedy elites who this time happened to be stationed in Washington rather than Moscow.

I can tell the military is doing a first rate job at indoctrinating the their tools of war.



The soviets invaded because their little socialism experiment failed.

And there is a difference betweeen seeking knowledge on a subject, and indoctrination. A difference you no doubt have difficulty understanding, as I see you have been successfully indoctrinated yourself.


From: Who cares | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Kevin_Laddle
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posted 03 October 2006 08:56 PM      Profile for Kevin_Laddle   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Unreasonable:

Interesting, I missed this peice of fiction. Lets see... The past 3 months, 11 and several wounded (including a friend) to 1,500 (ish).


Wow, 1,500 dead brown people (is that including the 10-year boy riding his bicycle you cowards murdered last month?) Is that supposed to make me feel better? Fuck you.


From: ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST STATE. ASK THE FAMILIES OF THE QANA MASSACRE VICTIMS. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Unreasonable
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posted 03 October 2006 09:12 PM      Profile for Unreasonable        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin_Laddle:

Wow, 1,500 dead brown people (is that including the 10-year boy riding his bicycle you cowards murdered last month?) Is that supposed to make me feel better? Fuck you.


Your ignorance is very unbecoming, as is you violence of words. First, most of the Pashtun tribes are actually white... If it suits your purposes, you could go north and find "brown" and even "yellow" people. Second, the battle in Panjwi was too way. The insurgents made the mistake of digging in, and attempting conventional warfare.

Last, everything gets coloured different when taken out of context, but when forced back into context, the kid you referenced, was killed very shortly after an initial IED explosion killed Canadians and local civilians alike. He ignored all warnings to stay away. And that incident killed one, and destroyed another... Make no mistake. Any more cheap shots?

It would be nice if you can avoid the racist rhetoric.


From: Who cares | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 03 October 2006 09:16 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Anyway, this war is a bad idea, as I have been saying from the begining, it is a shame that our folks, and theirs, are getting killed over there.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Unreasonable
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posted 03 October 2006 09:20 PM      Profile for Unreasonable        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Anyway, this war is a bad idea, as I have been saying from the begining, it is a shame that our folks, and theirs, are getting killed over there.


On the killing part, I do agree. Diplomacy is always the better option. Leaving now though, IMO is the greater sin, and this, as you know has always been my stance.


From: Who cares | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
redflag
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posted 03 October 2006 10:33 PM      Profile for redflag     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Unreasonable, you say that we're the ones who have gone through the process of indoctrination. I think that's kind of silly considering that your the one who had to go through basic training and all the rest of the military's programming.

The fact of the matter is that your a trained tool of the state and as such you are told what to do and how to do it.

So if I was you, I'd avoid the topic of indoctrination, because if there is anyone here who is guilty of such things, it would be you.


From: here | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 03 October 2006 11:13 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Unreasonable:
Support our troops, don't vote for anyone that calls us terrorists.

And don't trust anyone who takes a far out resolution at a convention, that was defeated and scrapped immediately, as the opinion and belief of an entire political party. Anyone who does so is clearly not basing their arguments on reality, but rather a constructed collection of images that suits their predispositions.

I support the troops, I don't support the mission. The two are not indivisible.


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 04 October 2006 12:26 AM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, at least Unreasonable lives up to his/her name. Consistency is also a virtue.

quote:
The soviets invaded because their little socialism experiment failed

No, stupid. The Soviets invaded for the same reason the US did: because the regime that promised them an oil pipeline access via Afghanistan to the Indian Ocean was in jeopardy.

Socialism had nothing to do with it.

That pipeline the Russians wanted was the same motivation for the US government to set up Al Qaeda and train Osama Bin Laden, well connected via the Bin Laden family to then CIA director George Bush Sr. to fight the Soviet backed regime and then the Soviet army to stop them from getting their pipeline.

That pipeline was the reason the US government/Corporate America funded the Taliban and put them in power there in 1997—so they would get that pipeline access under US control (after the Soviet Union broke up).

But the Taliban was holding out on the US for more money and eventually fell out of favour with them. The 911 attacks provided the US government/Corporate America with the perfect excuse to remove the Taliban, even though Osama Bin Laden, as we later found out, was not even in Afghanistan at the time—and more likely in Pakistan or even his native Saudi Arabia—two US backed dictatorships.

Now the US government/Corporate America has a new puppet regime there, made up largely of former Taliban and Taliban-like drug lords who cut their own deals with the US military—which conducted those fraudulent “elections” that got them all in. Now they are negotiating a new pipeline access deal with the US government/Corporate America.

So, soldier, that’s who you are fighting for—those are our “allies:” the people who brought us the Taliban, Al Qaeda and now this new oppressive clique. Try to remember that when you’re shooting people over there.

quote:
The government is recognised by the world body, and more Afghans then you imagine.

Really? What world body? It’s not the UN. It’s not the OECD. It’s not even the corporate-dominated WTO for Christ’s sake! Who other than the US government—whose military rigged the fake “election”—and a few of its satellites (like Canada) recognize it?

As for “more Afghans than you can imagine,” I wonder just how recognized that government is considering it controls only about a third of the country. Obviously, the rival factions there (which are more than just the Taliban) have some pretty wide-spread support as well.

quote:
If you knew anything at all about history, you would know why we are there.

I, for one, have done some reading on that history, and I just told you why “we” are there.

quote:
On the killing part, I do agree. Diplomacy is always the better option. Leaving now though, IMO is the greater sin, and this, as you know has always been my stance.

Then why is Jack Layton’s proposal of replacing the military with a UN peace-keeping force and bringing all of the factions (including the Taliban) to the table so repulsive to you and yours?

You know something like this is going to have to happen sooner or later, one way or another, if this whole thing is going to be resolved.

quote:
Unreasonable, you say that we're the ones who have gone through the process of indoctrination. I think that's kind of silly considering that your the one who had to go through basic training and all the rest of the military's programming.

Indoctrination! In the military!? Perish the thought! The militaries of the world are hallmarks of free thinking and sound character-building. Is that understood?!

Now gimmie 50 push-ups and go clean the latrine with your toothbrush. On the double!


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Who?
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posted 04 October 2006 03:29 AM      Profile for Who?     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
They are para-military forces rightfully defending their homeland against imperialist aggression.

Kevin, you are out to lunch with this one. Care to defend the Taliban while you're at it?


From: Eastern Canada | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 04 October 2006 03:37 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Kevin, could you please calm down a bit while posting on babble? I've noticed this trend over the past few days, where you've been posting over-the-top invective in quite a few different threads. Calm down.

Unreasonable has admitted that he is a formerly banned babbler, so he's being banned again. And I noticed that Jay Williams is back under his 40th alias in some other thread (or, it could be David Stapley, not sure), posting as "Banned Yet Again" - a self-fulfilling prophecy, indeed.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Unreasonable
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posted 04 October 2006 03:37 AM      Profile for Unreasonable        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by arborman:

And don't trust anyone who takes a far out resolution at a convention, that was defeated and scrapped immediately, as the opinion and belief of an entire political party. Anyone who does so is clearly not basing their arguments on reality, but rather a constructed collection of images that suits their predispositions.

I support the troops, I don't support the mission. The two are not indivisible.


Hmmm, take a closer look at this place... What was said behind those closed doors is mirrored very effectively here. I could drop names, but I did that already. It is so passe.


From: Who cares | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 04 October 2006 04:23 AM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well you certainly dumped on me for no real reason, especially after I had made friends with you.
From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Noise
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posted 04 October 2006 07:08 AM      Profile for Noise     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
"That is the phase that will sway the inhabitants one way or the other in terms of whether they want to support their own government or the Taliban," he added.

Well said... Lets translate the spin. ..."support the gov't we are setting up for them or themselves" ^^

quote:
The attack occurred in the Panjwaii district, which had largely been cleared of Taliban insurgents in recent weeks as part of Operation Medusa.

We've stopped fighting 'taliban' in Panjwaii and are taking on the local warlords in the region. While their alive, they're usually referred to as farmers or citizens. In death they become taliban insurgents.

quote:
I can easily define aan insurgent. Can you?

Yes, anyone we have just killed is infact an insurgent. Seems to be the only consistant definition ^^


quote:
The title insurgents stands. The government is recognised by the world body, and more Afghans then you imagine. If you knew anything at all about history, you would know why we are there.

Bleh, learn your own history plz.

We brought Christianity to the Heathns,
We brought civilization the the Barbarians,
and now we bring democracy to the third world.

Why don't you just come out and say it as it is Unreasonable? "We are superior to the Afghans in every way and the second they realize this it's for the better. Since they don't seem to be willing to learn this on their own, we'll have to kill until they realize how superior we are. Then and only then will they bask in the glory that is our values."

If you had a clue about history, you'd know in advance this is as doomed as the mission in Iraq. All we are doing is deposing one set of warlords and implementing Karzais elected warlords instead. The warlords in Afghanistan will realize that if they are not included within Karzais 'elected government' they will no longer hold power... They are and will continue to side with and fund (with the vast amounts of western monies they've garnered from the drug trade) insurgents towards the government that we are forcefully installing upon them. Bleh, like we care... Our gov't and our values are obviously superior afterall.


From: Protest is Patriotism | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sans Tache
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13117

posted 04 October 2006 10:15 AM      Profile for Sans Tache        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Frontline on PBS showed a very interesting programme last night. You can watch the show from this website - Return of the Taliban

This is a good map of the region showing the close proximity of the strongholds. The inlay showed in the broadcast, "No Foriegners..." could even enter the "Tribal Lands."

This is the ethnic background map.

PBS is not always impartial but they do have interviews from both sides. There were a few scenes that showed how brutal the Taliban can be and how feared they are in some parts of the region.

Unreasonable, I hope you keep safe and return with many good story experiences to share. We hear too many of the bad ones about our mission in Afghanistan.


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged

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