babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » current events   » national news   » Growing and using marijuana is a GOOD thing!

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Growing and using marijuana is a GOOD thing!
cannabiscanuck
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12891

posted 15 September 2006 06:52 AM      Profile for cannabiscanuck        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Published: Friday, September 15, 2006
VANCOUVER - Vancouver pot activist Dana Larsen says he has no plans to sell pot seeds to Americans over the mail through his new Vancouver Seed Bank.
''I don't want to be extradited to the U.S. for selling seeds down there,'' Larsen, 35, said in reference to the situation faced by his long-time friend and colleague Marc Emery, who sold marijuana seeds to U.S. addresses.
Larsen's business opened three months ago and fills a vacuum created after Emery's storefront and online marijuana-seed operation was shut down at the request of the U.S. government.
American prosecutors are seeking to have Emery extradited for selling marijuana seeds through the mail. He is currently free on bail.
Larsen said his store does not sell marijuana, just the seeds, adding that he doesn't want to break the law or get arrested.
''But we are here to stretch the law, to make a point,'' said Larsen.
Larsen said that prices range from $30 to $120 for bags of 10 to 12 seeds.
''It's a weed and it's very easy to grow,'' he added.
Vancouver police spokesman Const. Howard Chow said the police are aware of the storefront but that other drug issues have a higher priority, including heroin and cocaine trafficking, crystal meth use and marijuana grow-ops.
Vancouver Sun

From: na | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6061

posted 15 September 2006 07:26 AM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Vancouver police spokesman Const. Howard Chow said the police are aware of the storefront but that other drug issues have a higher priority, including heroin and cocaine trafficking, crystal meth use and marijuana grow-ops.

No shit. Good luck Dana.


From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
glasstech
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11534

posted 15 September 2006 09:18 AM      Profile for glasstech     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Any contact information?
Directory Assistance had no listing for this.

From: Whitehorse, Yukon | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Dana Larsen
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10033

posted 15 September 2006 10:17 AM      Profile for Dana Larsen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We got stories in the Vancouver Sun, the Edmonton Sun, CBC TV, City-TV Breakfast show, CBC-radio (both english and french) and more.

The media are pack animals. A CBC Radio guy saw our tiny ad in the Georgia Straight and called for a story on Wednesday. Then the other media hear the story and so they all come trotting in the next day.

Here's the CBC story: http://www.cbc.ca/story/news/national/2006/09/14/bc-marijuana-seeds.html

Our store is online at http://www.VancouverSeedBank.ca

We're located at 872 East Hastings (Hastings & Campbell). We're open every ay from 12-6pm. Our tel# is 778-329-1930.

See you all there soon I hope!


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
minty
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12690

posted 15 September 2006 11:55 AM      Profile for minty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dana,

Just saw your story on CBC Newsworld. Good on ya, and keep up the good fight!


From: London | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7911

posted 15 September 2006 07:22 PM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well if I ever get back to BC I'll stop by. Did stop by at Stairway to Hemp near Coombs a few months ago - great shop, great people. Could have scored some BC Bud but would NOT risk trying to enter US with it. And, two miles inside US border, N. Dakota state troopers had a highway drug stop in effect.

So I guess for us Yanks, what buys in BC gets smoked in BC!

Anyway, good luck Dana.


From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Dana Larsen
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10033

posted 15 September 2006 09:04 PM      Profile for Dana Larsen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We got additional coverage on Global TV tonight.

Just to be clear, we DON'T sell marijuana, only marijuana seeds, plus tobacco seeds, peyote seeds, poppy seeds, and all sorts of seeds.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
cannabiscanuck
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12891

posted 17 September 2006 07:01 AM      Profile for cannabiscanuck        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dana,

Does the seed bank offer a discount for authentic Compassion Club and/or MMAR card holders? Many of us are on disability pensions. Some of us choose to grow our own medicine and any financial saving is welcome. If you do offer a 5 or 10 % reduction on seeds put it on the add. Keep up the Good Work!


From: na | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Dana Larsen
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10033

posted 17 September 2006 08:44 PM      Profile for Dana Larsen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Does the seed bank offer a discount for authentic Compassion Club and/or MMAR card holders?

We don't have an official policy, but we should have one.

We'd be happy to give 10% off for medical patients.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
cannabiscanuck
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12891

posted 18 September 2006 03:56 AM      Profile for cannabiscanuck        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Right on Dana! Thankyou.
From: na | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Dana Larsen
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10033

posted 24 September 2006 08:43 AM      Profile for Dana Larsen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We just got in our first batch of coca cuttings, making us the only store I know of in North America which has coca plants for sale!
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Abdul_Maria
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11105

posted 28 September 2006 07:58 AM      Profile for Abdul_Maria     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
if the grower has a selection of genetics to choose from, i think growing is a very effective approach to medical marijuana.

over time, after a few grows, the grower self-selects the strains that help their condition(s).

for example, White Widow for an upset stomach late at night, a G13 mix to alleviate pain without stupefying the user/ patient.


From: San Fran | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Buddy Kat
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13234

posted 28 September 2006 10:25 AM      Profile for Buddy Kat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So when are you going to support the "war effort" and start marketing poppy's.

Helping Afghans by purchaseing their poppy's. We can even pin them on our suits and show our support for the Canadian troops and Neocon agenda.

If the pain of war is too much to handle..we just make tea out of it.


From: Saskatchewan | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
lombar
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12908

posted 28 September 2006 12:10 PM      Profile for lombar     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey, you could have the poppy but putting it in tea becomes manufacturing drugs and the way our bogus drug laws are written, you just broke three talking about it.
From: New Westminster, BC | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Buddy Kat
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13234

posted 29 September 2006 12:44 AM      Profile for Buddy Kat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey, haven't you heard...If you break laws now, a simple apology will suffice. If you don't believe me you can ask the top man of Canada's police force.
Zacardelli.

From: Saskatchewan | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
lombar
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12908

posted 29 September 2006 10:36 AM      Profile for lombar     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Didn't anyone take you aside and tell you that the laws only apply to us little people? An apology might suffice for the leaders but we get the greybar hotel. Police make mistakes, we are deviant criminals.. police deserve forgiveness, we deserve prison. Police allow/cause people to die in custody and it takes 3 years to get a bs story, one cop dies, they have a state funeral to honor the 'fallen hero' on TV.. do you see the patterns in the sand...
From: New Westminster, BC | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Dana Larsen
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10033

posted 29 September 2006 11:56 PM      Profile for Dana Larsen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Buddy Kat:
[QB]So when are you going to support the "war effort" and start marketing poppy's.

Helping Afghans by purchaseing their poppy's.


We do sell many tobacco and poppy seeds.

And actually I do advocate that we should buy up all of Afghanistan's opium poppy crop, and turn it into pharmaceutical grade pain medication.

The world is facing a critical shortage of pain relief medication and licensing Afghanistan to produce legal opium is a roadmap to stability in all sorts of ways.

See this thread for more info: http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=002158

And this website: http://www.senliscouncil.net

quote:
If the pain of war is too much to handle..we just make tea out of it.

I would love to open a Coca and Opium Tea House! I have actually dreamed and planned exactly that for quite a while now, along with other projects like the Medical Marijuana Mansion Grow-Op Tours.

The Coca & Opium Tea House could even be run on a "compassion club" model, and only make the products available for those with some kind of medical need.

I believe that making the safe, plant based versions of these "drugs" available is part of the solution to the harms caused by the use of the powdered, synthesized, injectable versions of these substances.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Abdul_Maria
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11105

posted 30 September 2006 08:40 AM      Profile for Abdul_Maria     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i want to try chewing coca leaves like the Indians in South America.

i'm curious how much of a buzz it gives you. like, how long before it washes out of your system.

sort of like, i drink strong coffee in the morning. i have the impression that coca leaves has a stimulative as well as anaesthetic effect, therefore more of a morning thing.

OK, this question might sound gross, but, i'm trying to be practical. if you chew coca leaves, do you spit (like tobacco chewers) or swallow (like ... no, that would be sexist ... well, anyway) the surplus coca-infused saliva ?


From: San Fran | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
marzo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12096

posted 30 September 2006 11:12 AM      Profile for marzo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In parts of South America where coca use is popular, they eat and swallow the leaves. I haven't had any myself, but I understand that coca leaves are highly nutritious, a good source of vitamin C and essential minerals.
From: toronto | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
marzo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12096

posted 30 September 2006 11:17 AM      Profile for marzo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
P.S. I'm not an expert, but I have heard that the raw coca leaves don't have the toxic and addictive effects of processed cocaine. It seems that when the cocaine is separated from the nutrients in the leaf,a protective effect of the nutrients is lost.
From: toronto | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Centerfield
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13025

posted 30 September 2006 05:04 PM      Profile for Centerfield        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My first time smokin da weed was when I was 10.
Like most of the BabyBoomers here I'm not alone.

I remember the Tie sticks,Indian Cashmere,Indian rope,Morocan green etc.

I remember buying acid hits torn out of the TV guide.
I remember at Carleton University growing plants in my closet that were 6ft high,dam I miss those times.
I remember seeing Led Zepplin playing at the Black Swan(Rideau Street) in Ottawa (Live).


So to me Growing and using marijuana is a GOOD thing.

I doubt the kids today know what real drugs are.

[ 30 September 2006: Message edited by: Centerfield ]


From: Ontario | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Dana Larsen
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10033

posted 30 September 2006 08:58 PM      Profile for Dana Larsen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Most of the potent "addictive drugs" are concentrates of plant medicines which are much safer in their original form.

Coca leaf can be chewed but really it is sucked, with ash or something else alkaline.

I think making a tea would be a preferrable mode of ingestion.

http://www.cocamuseum.com/htm/chewing.htm

I recommend the Coca Museum for great information on the history of the amazing coca plant.

http://www.cocamuseum.com/main.htm


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
erroneousrebelrouser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12363

posted 30 September 2006 10:11 PM      Profile for erroneousrebelrouser   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All in all I wish you the best of luck; cheers and all that. You're lucky to live where you live. I still feel the same way that I did when I posted what I felt about Emery; I wish all the best for both of you.

[ 02 October 2006: Message edited by: erroneousrebelrouser ]


From: home sweet home | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Buddy Kat
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13234

posted 01 October 2006 12:40 AM      Profile for Buddy Kat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Regarding Mark Emery..I remember a while back he was on a local(Saskatchewan) radio show promotting an ndp stance on pot. Anyways he went on about how cops give people crminal records over pot, hence damageing there future(which is true). In some cases it's the equivilant of terrorisim.

A cop phones in saying it's all bullshit, they don't arrest people for smokeing pot UNLESS it's related to a crime there investigating.

2 weeks later he is arrested in Saskatoon for smokeing a joint. 3 months!!

Things sure don't look to good for him with our new neo-con american style and serveing government. I wouldn't be surprised if they gift wrap him.


From: Saskatchewan | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Gollygee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13258

posted 01 October 2006 09:10 AM      Profile for Gollygee        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
He wasn't arrested for smoking but distribution.
Also, such infractions (silly or not) are not prioritized by the Feds in Ottawa but by the provincial (NDP) government or whatever government is in power in a province. The RCMP or local police forces know which infractions will be prosecuted or not and act accordingly. they look to the province for direction and not Ottawa.

This is the same reason that those snubbing their noses at the long gun registration (including MPs and MLAs) are not arrested or charged with an offence. No provincial prosecution means no charges and no sentencing. Most provinces told the Liberal government they would not enforce the law and the Liberals in Ottawa couldn't do anything about it.

Should Marijuana or it's distribution be illegal? I don't believe so but that's not up to me or police forces but the elected governments.

I think it's stupid to smoke anything but each to their own.

[ 01 October 2006: Message edited by: Gollygee ]


From: Creston, BC | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Dana Larsen
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10033

posted 01 October 2006 10:42 AM      Profile for Dana Larsen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
He wasn't arrested for smoking but distribution.

Marc Emery was charged and convicted with "trafficking" for simply passing a joint in a circle. Others were there all passing joints in a circle but only Emery was charged.

quote:
. By all means keep a low profile and continue do abide by whatever laws that you have up there.

Uh, no on both counts. Our operation was just featured in papers across Canada as well as CBC and Global TV. And we are breaking the laws against selling seeds, selling banned plants, and providing a safe place to smoke pot. But these laws are all weak ones with minimal penalties in Canada.

quote:
It's very clear that it's legal to grow poppies in Canada, but it's not legal to grow them in the U.S.

We don't send pot seeds to the USA but we do send poppy seeds. Dozens of stores sell poppy seeds within the USA.

[ 01 October 2006: Message edited by: Dana Larsen ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Gollygee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13258

posted 01 October 2006 10:47 AM      Profile for Gollygee        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Please don't put other posters' quotes under my name (or anyone else's) and quote without identifying them as coming from a diffeent poster. Thanks.
From: Creston, BC | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Dana Larsen
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10033

posted 01 October 2006 08:26 PM      Profile for Dana Larsen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
lease don't put other posters' quotes under my name (or anyone else's) and quote without identifying them as coming from a diffeent poster. Thanks.

Sorry for any confusion. That's been fixed.

quote:
I don't believe so but that's not up to me or police forces but the elected governments.

Police have enormous discretion in who to bust and charge and who to ignore.

A Cannabis Compassion Club has operated (illegally) in Vancouver for years and never have they been busted although they sell pot to over 2000 clients.

Yet the Victoria Compassion Club has been raided, as was the Sunshine Coast Compassion Club. All are in BC, but the Vancouver Club gets ignored and other clubs get busted.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Southlander
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10465

posted 01 October 2006 10:10 PM      Profile for Southlander     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To the people running the shop.
Do you keep a customer list? is it accessible by internet access if you have a password? Do you inform customers of what is done with their information after the sale?

From: New Zealand | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Dana Larsen
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10033

posted 02 October 2006 02:02 AM      Profile for Dana Larsen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Do you keep a customer list?

No.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Southlander
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10465

posted 02 October 2006 04:20 AM      Profile for Southlander     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
so what is someone has a complaint about a purchase? -Never heard of them?
From: New Zealand | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Abdul_Maria
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11105

posted 02 October 2006 07:24 AM      Profile for Abdul_Maria     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
a "cross that bridge when we come to it" situation.

not many people have complaints.


From: San Fran | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
marzo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12096

posted 02 October 2006 08:30 AM      Profile for marzo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Southlander:
so what is someone has a complaint about a purchase? -Never heard of them?

When Emery was selling his seeds through Cannabis Culture magazine I bought seeds several times. Once, I bought a batch from him and only 1 out of 10 seeds germinated. I sent him a letter of explanation and a request for replacements so he sent me 41 seeds of a few different varieties.

From: toronto | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
SUPERSNAKE
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5856

posted 02 October 2006 09:03 AM      Profile for SUPERSNAKE     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, I guess I'll just never understand the position of "smoking pot is bad".

It's my body; as long as I'm not infringing on anyone else's rights, why should anyone else care?


From: none of your business | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6874

posted 02 October 2006 10:26 AM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This would be one of the fields I'm least knowledgeable in...

Does smoking pot (never done it) have any significant long term health hazards? Brain damage? Lung cancer (all that smoke in your lungs can't be good for you...)

I mean, I take interest in this because, while, yes it's your body, we do have to pay for -ve health hazards though our health care system. Also, I do care about the health of others. If I heard a heroin addict (yes, yes there is a difference between the two) make the statement SUPERSNAKE did, I wouldn't just blow it off.

I say, legalize pot, and then try to include full cost accountablity within the costs.

[ 02 October 2006: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]

Also, I'm fairly sure pot is not physically addictive, like tobacco is. But is it really that easy to quit? Can you become addicted to the point where you need to buy it, even if you fall into poverty? Can you become addicted to the point where you would buy it over essential needs (ie food, shelter).

[ 02 October 2006: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]

[ 02 October 2006: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
SUPERSNAKE
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5856

posted 02 October 2006 10:52 AM      Profile for SUPERSNAKE     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey W/C-

So is your stance on heroin-type drugs based on the fact that they cost the tax-payers muchos $$ for overdoses, rehab', etc, or is it a moral position?

For example, if I draw up an "In case of emergency, do not help" order for myself, and I was making just enough drugs for my own use, would you still be against legalizing the ownership and use of said drugs?


From: none of your business | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Dana Larsen
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10033

posted 02 October 2006 11:01 AM      Profile for Dana Larsen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
so what is someone has a complaint about a purchase? -Never heard of them?

We can usually remember our clients. And if someone bought seeds from us they usually have a proof of purchase from us.

We don't keep a list titled "Marijuana seed Buyers" but we do keep a non-incriminating list of records for our own purposes.

If someone is unhappy with their purchase we will make it right with replacement seeds.


quote:
Does smoking pot (never done it) have any significant long term health hazards? Brain damage? Lung cancer (all that smoke in your lungs can't be good for you...)

First of all, the harmfulness of a substance is not the right basis for banning it. Even if marijuana or another substance is harmful to use, the question is how to best reduce those harms. Outright prohibition might work in some cases, but making the substance as safe as possible is usually a better solution.

For example, waterpipes and vaporizers can make marijuana "safer" but these things are all banned.

However, marijuana use is quite safe. There is no recorded case of cancer or death resulting solely from marijuana use. Indeed, marijuana is a powerful medicine and has many preventative and therapeutic properties. Like red wine, moderate use of marijuana can be healthier than abstaining entirely.


quote:
I mean, I take interest in this because, while, yes it's your body, we do have to pay for -ve health hazards though our health care system.

More people sufffer health problems as a result of skiing, mountain climbing, or even having sex than do from smoking pot. With all those things we recognize that banning the activity is not solution, rather we work to minimize the harm and make the activity as safe as possible. Prison is not the solution to a health issue, and prison is clearly the most expensive option.

quote:
Also, I'm fairly sure pot is not physically addictive, like tobacco is. But is it really that easy to quit? Can you become addicted to the point where you need to buy it, even if you fall into poverty? Can you become addicted to the point where you would buy it over essential needs (ie food, shelter)

A vast and overwhelming majority of pot smokers are occasional users. There's no prostitutes working the streets so they can buy another joint. There's no-one robbing liquor stores to buy some weed. And in a legal environment the cost of marijuana could be lowered so it is more easily affordable.

Consider coffee and caffeine. Caffeine causes more health problems than marijuana does. Caffeine is addictive, causes withdrawal symptoms, and heavy use can lead to ulcers and serious health problems. But would it be better to ban coffee and caffeine drinks? Such a policy would lead to underground coffee bars, and eventually we'd see a small subset of the population using caffeine pills and perhaps even injecting caffeine.

The same goes for tobacco. I'd like to see tobacco regulated and made safer, but banning tobacco would not solve any problems, indeed it would make tobacco products more dangerous if we forced tobacco entirely underground.

And finally keep in mind that marijuana is a plant, and that there's plenty of extremely toxic plants in your garden right now. What government has the right to forbid any plant, especially one which is so amazingly useful and considered a sacrament by muillions of people wordlwide?


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Dana Larsen
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10033

posted 02 October 2006 12:49 PM      Profile for Dana Larsen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
.If I heard a heroin addict (yes, yes there is a difference between the two) make the statement


Actually heroin, cocaine and other demonized drugs are mostly concentrated extracts of plants which by themselves are actually useful or beneficial to human health.

We always hear of heroin and cocaine addiction and health problems, but opium poppy and coca leaf are both nutritious plants with millennia of safe use for social, medicinal and sacramental purposes.

We should reintroduce legal access to safe versions of these plants, such as foods and drinks with a regulated level of opiate or coca. Stronger versions should be available by prescription.

The current complete ban on these plants is a terrible social policy that is causing a great deal of harm and conflict around the world.

Here's an example of how the studies and research are biased towards finding harm and demonizing these plants. There's plenty o other examples of suppressed and biased research to convince people that these substances are far more dangerous than they really are.

Excerpted from this article: http://www.sptimes.com/News/072901/Worldandnation/US_policy_not_limited.shtml

-------------------
In 1995, the World Health Organization was about to publish the results of "the largest global study of cocaine ever undertaken," a four-year project covering 22 cities in 19 countries.

But the United States took issue with some of the findings. Among them: that chewing coca leaves, as Andean farmers have done for centuries, appeared to cause no health problems, and that cocaine appeared to be less harmful than alcohol and tobacco.

"The United States government has been surprised to note that the (study) seemed to make a case for the positive uses of cocaine," according to minutes of a meeting in Geneva where the U.S. representative, Neil Boyer, raised the American concerns.

Boyer warned, "If WHO activities . . . failed to reinforce proven drug control approaches, funds for the relevant programs should be curtailed."

Under U.S. pressure, the World Health Organization withheld the study and agreed to appoint a committee to review the findings. In the end, no report on global cocaine use was ever issued.
------------------


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 02 October 2006 01:08 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dana check your private messages.
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
erroneousrebelrouser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12363

posted 02 October 2006 01:46 PM      Profile for erroneousrebelrouser   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
please don't put other posters' quotes under my name (or anyone else's) and quote without identifying them as coming from a diffeent poster. Thanks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(once again I erased my thread)

I don't know you Dana so I shouldn't weigh in with my opinions regarding the law and such. So sorry about that. You obviously know what you are doing and why.

Good luck honey. I really wish you all the best. I'd stop by if you weren't a million miles away.

[ 02 October 2006: Message edited by: erroneousrebelrouser ]


From: home sweet home | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6874

posted 02 October 2006 01:57 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SUPERSNAKE:
Hey W/C-

So is your stance on heroin-type drugs based on the fact that they cost the tax-payers muchos $$ for overdoses, rehab', etc, or is it a moral position?

For example, if I draw up an "In case of emergency, do not help" order for myself, and I was making just enough drugs for my own use, would you still be against legalizing the ownership and use of said drugs?


Let me start this post by saying that the primary goal of drug policies should be to minimize the amount of suffering drug usage brings into society. My position on any drug policy is a moral and (an attempt at) an accountable one.

In your hypothetical argument, I would be against the legalizing your use of heroin. I would be concerned, and would intervene, if I thought your actions were causing yourself undue suffering. I would do everything I could to prevent you from becoming an addict. Heroin is a phyiscally addictive substance, and I would not want you going through the pain of withdrawl, poverty, medical side effects, etc. The best way to do this is to prohibit the substance, imprison those who sell it, rehab those who use it, and prevent people from using it in the first place. You can't simply tell the user that he can use the heroin, so long as we don't have to pay for it. That's simply cold hearted.

I should add that you can never confine the suffering solely onto yourself. Friends, family and the community always suffers when someone becomes addicted to drugs.

Marijuana is kind of murkier for me. I personally just fall over the fence into legalization. Marijuana, insofar as I know is not a physically addictive substance. It is a psychologically addictive substance, but so apparently is sex, TV, babbling on this site. Smoking marijuana seems to be a free choice, no matter how long you've been using it. Now, if long term effects are as benign as pro-pot advocates say they are, then there really isn't that much detriment to society simply from the usage of the product. What seems to be causing suffering onto the community is the fact that it is illegal: That you get bad batches, that traffic is controlled by violent gangs who are the only ones profiting from this enterprise, etc.

So, since the harm to society and the user seems to be greater when illegal than legal, I'd legalize it, and since smoking pot appears to be a free choice thoughout the period of time one uses it, I'd try use full-cost accountability to make the user pay for whatever medical side effects that the public healthcare system provides. Which are, according to Dana, would be none, so the tax would be uh... zero. Heck, if pot usage had positive effects, it could be subsidized!

It's all still a little sketchy for me. That question you asked made me think alot (which is good)

Also, Dana, your posts are very interesting. Perhaps I should research into this a little more... (mind you, I'm 19, I've been into geopolitics for 2 years, I can't know everything)

[ 02 October 2006: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Dana Larsen
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10033

posted 02 October 2006 02:58 PM      Profile for Dana Larsen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
if I thought your actions were causing yourself undue suffering. I would do everything I could to prevent you from becoming an addict. Heroin is a phyiscally addictive substance, and I would not want you going through the pain of withdrawl, poverty, medical side effects, etc.

But putting someone in prison also creates harm and costs taxpayers money. Indeed the harm of going to prison is usually greater than the harm the person suffers from drug usage. So you are inflicting a greater punishment upon people to stop them from inflicting a lesser punishment against themselves.


quote:
The best way to do this is to prohibit the substance, imprison those who sell it, rehab those who use it, and prevent people from using it in the first place.

Upon what do you base this statement? Because as a society we have found that alcohol prohibition caused more harm than legal regulated alcohol does. We've also drastically reduced overall use of tobacco products without having to criminalize the sale and use of tobacco.

I would argue that the best way to reduce the overall harm from the use of dangerous substances is to make those substances as safe as possible, to introduce safer versions wherever possible, to regulate and tax those substances, and use the tax revenues to help those who end up having problems with their drug use.

Keep in mind that these "dangerous drugs" are all derived from plants which have a long history of positive use in their regions. The logical extension of imprisoning users and growers in this country is the US-led global drug war, which attacks coca growers and poppy growers in their native countries, where the use of these plant medicines is often an integral part of their native culture.

Consider that US tobacco products kill far more Colombians than Colombian cocaine products kill Americans. So would Colombia be justified in aerial spraying of toxic herbicides onto the US tobacco fields to protect their citizens from the risks of tobacco addiction?


quote:
You can't simply tell the user that he can use the heroin, so long as we don't have to pay for it. That's simply cold hearted.

Do we put people in jail for eating fatty foods, for being lazy, for doing other unhealthy things? Socialized health care should not become an excuse for jailing people for unhealthy behaviours.


quote:
Now, if long term effects are as benign as pro-pot advocates say they are, then there really isn't that much detriment to society simply from the usage of the product. What seems to be causing suffering onto the community is the fact that it is illegal: That you get bad batches, that traffic is controlled by violent gangs who are the only ones profiting from this enterprise, etc.

Mariuana is indeed benign, but even if it was harmful, criminalization is still the wrong way to reduce those harms. Jail should be the very last resort in dealing with these kinds of social and health issues.

Unprotected sex can kill or cause harm. But do we ban sex? No, we encourage people to have safe sex, to wait until they are old enough, to treat sexual behaviour with respect, and to enjoy it responsibly.

The same should go for the use of mind-altering plants and drugs. Banning these substances just makes them more dangerous. The desire to alter consciousness is as natural and normal as the desire to enjoy sex, and we should be teaching people how to explore their consciousness safely and responsibly.


quote:
Also, Dana, your posts are very interesting. Perhaps I should research into this a little more... (mind you, I'm 19, I've been into geopolitics for 2 years, I can't know everything)

The global war on drugs is very destructive and is a very real war for many people worldwide. The war on drugs ties into the current conflict in Afghanistan. The war on drugs unstabilizes governments, and is a primary cause of political corruption and reduction of civil liberties worldwide. The war on drugs limits our options when it comes to our own health care. The war on drugs is a large part of why pharmaceutical companies are bleeding our health care system dry. The war on drugs is why the US and Canadian prisons are overcrowded, and why prison building is the number construction industry in the USA. The war on drugs is the cause behind most gun crime in Canada and the USA. The war on drugs is as deadly and as real as any other war being fought today.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2732

posted 02 October 2006 03:12 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
In your hypothetical argument, I would be against the legalizing your use of ALCOHOL. I would be concerned, and would intervene, if I thought your actions were causing yourself undue suffering. I would do everything I could to prevent you from becoming an addict. ALCOHOL is a phyiscally addictive substance, and I would not want you going through the pain of withdrawl, poverty, medical side effects, etc. The best way to do this is to prohibit the substance, imprison those who sell it, rehab those who use it, and prevent people from using it in the first place. You can't simply tell the user that he can use the ALCOHOL, so long as we don't have to pay for it. That's simply cold hearted.
So do you still agree with your own analysis when you substitue another more popular addictive drug.

From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Abdul_Maria
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11105

posted 03 October 2006 06:59 AM      Profile for Abdul_Maria     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:

Marijuana is kind of murkier for me. I personally just fall over the fence into legalization. Marijuana, insofar as I know is not a physically addictive substance. It is a psychologically addictive substance, but so apparently is sex, TV, babbling on this site. Smoking marijuana seems to be a free choice, no matter how long you've been using it. Now, if long term effects are as benign as pro-pot advocates say they are, then there really isn't that much detriment to society simply from the usage of the product. What seems to be causing suffering onto the community is the fact that it is illegal: That you get bad batches, that traffic is controlled by violent gangs who are the only ones profiting from this enterprise, etc.
[ 02 October 2006: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]

there's a Lot of Vitamin 420 consumed by the knowledge workers in Silicon Valley & San Francisco.

i have to wonder what would happen to high tech design output if there was no Herb.

as far as gangs ... yes & no. i know one medical shop in SF that is run by retired gang bangers. they are running a good shop.

but, when you think about it, are the myriad growing organizations in Northern California communities - or gangs ? a little bit of each, i guess.


From: San Fran | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
arborman
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4372

posted 03 October 2006 10:49 AM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:
Also, I'm fairly sure pot is not physically addictive, like tobacco is. But is it really that easy to quit? Can you become addicted to the point where you need to buy it, even if you fall into poverty? Can you become addicted to the point where you would buy it over essential needs (ie food, shelter).

Well, it can be habit forming, but it is not physically addictive. I was a fairly 'chronic' (at least once a day) pothead for a few years, but when I moved to Vancouver (ironically) I got too busy and essentially forgot to go looking for any. Quitting by procrastination, essentially. So it's pretty easy to quit.

I compare that to my experience with cigarrettes, which one does not 'forget' to smoke. Quitting ciggies was a brutal process, while quitting pot essentially happened by accident (not that I would never... I just haven't in years).

That's my experience, no doubt others are different. But it ain't physically addictive.


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca