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otter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12062

posted 08 September 2006 04:34 PM      Profile for otter        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well fall is fast approaching and winter will not be far behind. I was wondering if there are any posters out there that can tell us of any new and insightful measures being taken by their communities to provide real housing, health care and creative solutions to the growing numbers of Canadian citizens that have been abandoned to the vagaries and predatory enironments our streets?

I have heard of nothing from the islands or coastal communities of B.C. except the opening of a few more shelters and more stident calls for donations to food banks. None of which can be deemded effective responses.


From: agent provocateur inc. | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
arborman
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4372

posted 10 September 2006 07:45 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Small question, big answer. I'll try tomorrow.
From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
zak4amnesty
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10981

posted 19 September 2006 04:28 AM      Profile for zak4amnesty   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My city of 70 k'ish DOES NOT have any homeless, hungry, battered, addicted, or otherwise neglected people. Therefore, no more shelters, affordable houseing, detox centers (of which we already have none)food bank shelves etc... will be build. We in Sarnia are perfect happy little locusts.

My sister is currently relocating to Surrey to work with disadvantaged women. Interesting that when shelters are put in place, people show up, and when workers are needed to help them, there are others willing to try.

Will Vancouver be successful in sweeping it's homeless and addicted people under the rug, or into the ocean, prior to the 2010 games? I hope so...... I would certainly hate for the outside world to think that Cananada isn't all popsicles and lollipops.

Are people on this site usually actual NDP supporters? If so, I think you're wasting your time....... but good luck!


From: Chemical Valley | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
Volunteer Moderator
Babbler # 8938

posted 19 September 2006 05:16 AM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
zak, are you serious? You really think your community has no homeless people and no domestic violence? Enjoy your bubble.

A quick ask.com search reveals:

Lambton College second-year students open "Haven" for homeless youth

The Inn of the Good Shepard, whose mission is to provide services with dignity to those who are in need of food and shelter

Story about the Inn in the Observer (from 2001)

Toronto Disaster Relief Committee. Scroll down to a link to Cathy Crowe's speech at the Homelessness Symposium in SARNIA in November 2005

Back to the topic at hand, I don't know of any new government initiatives in Toronto that would really have the potential to make an impact, but the wonderful people at TDRC (see link above) always do amazing work.

[ 19 September 2006: Message edited by: bigcitygal ]


From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sineed
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11260

posted 19 September 2006 05:29 AM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One new proposal I heard just today for Toronto is mayoral candidate Jane Pitfield's proposal to ban sleeping on the streets. Not sure how she plans to enforce this ban. The jails are overcrowded as it is, and she should know, considering she just toured the Don Jail.
From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
zak4amnesty
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10981

posted 19 September 2006 05:36 AM      Profile for zak4amnesty   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ehh! bigcitygal..... does that mean you are a 'big' citygal..... or a 'bigcity' gal? umm,, doesn't matta.

No, I am not serious, but my community DOES really think it has no homeless people or domestic violence.

I have been a volunteer at the Inn for years now and speak out of frustration. I don't live in a bubble, but p'raps on a bubble. Sarnia is known in SW Ontario for being the cheapest and easiest place to find speed. THe crank heads are everywhere in my neighbourhood, yet the nearest detox, or shelter, or rehab is nearly 100 kms away......

Your ask.com search is very out of date.....

For the most part, the community of Sarnia has not given up on its disadvantaged at all, but that's only because the community has never really acknowledged them.


From: Chemical Valley | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 19 September 2006 06:43 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Could we please, pretty please have a thread title that actually reflects the subject of this thread? With sugar on top? And a cherry?

You know, with maybe the word "homeless" or "shelter" or something?

That would be awesome.

[ 19 September 2006: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
Volunteer Moderator
Babbler # 8938

posted 19 September 2006 08:40 AM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
zak, okay, you're not serious, I was concerned there for a sec. If it makes you feel any better, Mel Lastman a fwe years ago said there were no homeless people in North York.

And the answer to your question is "yes".

No more drift, I promise!

Sineed: Yeah Jane Pitfield's idea sounds great . It's working wonderfully in Montreal isn't it.

[begin rant]
I really get pissed off at dumbass politicians who have these kinds of ideas. It's already a crime to be poor, her idea would only further marginalize people who need the government to step up and frikkin do something rather than jail people, or worse, build more jails (which there always seems to be money for, notice that?) rather then oh I don't know: affordable housing?!?!?. In neighbourhoods all over the city and province?!?! so people can choose where they want to live/raise kids/get a job/go back to school, like, oh I don't know, everyone else gets to do??

[end rant]


From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
otter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12062

posted 19 September 2006 10:28 AM      Profile for otter        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am getting the impression that there is very little being done anywhere in Canada to address the problem of homelessness and the disadvantaged. While not surprising, it is also very telling about how our various levels of government prioritize the needs and concerns of their most vulnerable citizens.
From: agent provocateur inc. | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sineed
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posted 19 September 2006 10:52 AM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Otter, have you seen Malcolm Gladwell's very interesting article for the New Yorker? What I like about it is the suggestion that homelessness be dealt with in a practical and non-judgemental way. Instead of Jane Pitfield's huffing and blowing about "giving people the opportunity to believe in themselves," the programs Gladwell describe just find the most desperate people and give them housing, end of story.

I work in drug addiction treatment and some of my clientele are homeless. Many of these people have all sorts of insight into their problems and don't need people like Jane Pitfield or Harpoon to explain how they need to reform themselves. Instead of a lot of money-wasting bureaucracy, simple, straightforward programs are needed.


From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
zak4amnesty
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posted 20 September 2006 07:30 AM      Profile for zak4amnesty   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I visited that rehab 100 km's away last night. I help out there too a few times a year. There were only about 20 clients, and most of these people aren't certain where they are going to upon release. How can they focus on recovery when they have no home to go to. The Inn in Sarnia tries to help out, but it has very limited funds, and tight restrictions. The likelihood of some of these young men surviving for long in a 'perfect' home atmosphere is uncertain at best, but to put them straight on the street again? Gawd....
From: Chemical Valley | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
otter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12062

posted 20 September 2006 10:18 AM      Profile for otter        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Your bang on Zak its the long term needs that are not being met and the short term facilities are little more than a fix for societal guilt.

Thanks for that link Sineed. It offers a very good analysis of the situation for sure.

The only thing problem with the article is a bit of a nitpick of mine. Namely that the arguement being made is it is more economical to actually deal with the problems than not to... which again overlooks and ignores the societal responsiblity to simply care for the most needy and disadvantaged citizens because it is the responsible thing to do... but economics will do until we mature i guess.


From: agent provocateur inc. | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
SUPERSNAKE
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5856

posted 20 September 2006 10:39 AM      Profile for SUPERSNAKE     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by otter:
Well fall is fast approaching and winter will not be far behind. I was wondering if there are any posters out there that can tell us of any new and insightful measures being taken by their communities to provide real housing, health care and creative solutions to the growing numbers of Canadian citizens that have been abandoned to the vagaries and predatory enironments our streets?

I have heard of nothing from the islands or coastal communities of B.C. except the opening of a few more shelters and more stident calls for donations to food banks. None of which can be deemded effective responses.


A pilot program was started here in the 'Peg about three weeks ago--

Apparently, the powers-that-be selected 6 (?) people to earn a wage by being moved around the city performing various tasks: neighborhood clean-up, etc (I'm unsure of what criteria was used, other than they are "homeless").
I believe the intitative is being funded by the downtown BIZ group, and IIRC, one other private entity.
Apparently, it's hoped that this work will evolve into full-time positions with the city, although there's no restrictions on things like minimum numbers of days or hours worked.

Also, there was a real estate developer who just turned another small apartment bloc here (I think it was 32 suites?) into rental spaces at more affordable levels; again, IIRC, they were asking $300.00 a month for 'em; this is their second such development
The suites are a sort of bachelor affair, and include furnishings, microwave ovens, etc.

I'll try to find some links...

http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/2006/07/2006-07-24-02.html

http://www.downtownwinnipegbiz.com/index/downtown_news?id=146

[ 20 September 2006: Message edited by: SUPERSNAKE ]


From: none of your business | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
otter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12062

posted 20 September 2006 11:26 AM      Profile for otter        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
But enormous sums of money are already being spent on the chronically homeless, and Culhane saw that the kind of money it would take to solve the homeless problem could well be less than the kind of money it took to ignore it. Murray Barr used more health-care dollars, after all, than almost anyone in the state of Nevada. It would probably have been cheaper to give him a full-time nurse and his own apartment.

Just one except from the New Yorker article link provided by Sineed.


From: agent provocateur inc. | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
morningstar
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12378

posted 20 September 2006 11:43 AM      Profile for morningstar     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
zak---stratford sound a bit like your town. we pay lip service but really can't seem to believe that there is a problem. our main concern is a new multi zillion dollar double icepad, fitness, rec centre [located of course where a car is key to using it, which conveniently leaves the poor unable to go, which is great because if we had to see them every day while we buff up it would be such a drag]

when the anti poverty coalition in the area had a tiny demonstration on opening night, everyone was up in arms at their nerve of choosing the theatre as their venue.---such bad taste to interrupt 'art'. ironically the play was 'coriolanus'


From: stratford, on | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sineed
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11260

posted 20 September 2006 06:29 PM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The only thing problem with the article is a bit of a nitpick of mine. Namely that the arguement being made is it is more economical to actually deal with the problems than not to... which again overlooks and ignores the societal responsiblity to simply care for the most needy and disadvantaged citizens because it is the responsible thing to do... but economics will do until we mature i guess.

But that's the beauty of it. Most of the people at this site would agree that looking after vulnerable people is a moral duty, but the economic argument gets the righties on side. So people of all political stripes get into the same tent and solve this problem instead of continuing to quarrel around the usual bootstraps discussions.

From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged

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