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Author Topic: Christmas/Holiday Tree
Kevin_Laddle
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posted 02 December 2005 08:20 PM      Profile for Kevin_Laddle   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hate to bring up such a cliche debate... But I'm bored, and why not?

Really, I'm in the couldn't give a damn group. But I suppose when it refering to a tree used in a civic or government building, using the word "Christmas" could offend other groups.

Anyone have strong feelings on this?


From: ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST STATE. ASK THE FAMILIES OF THE QANA MASSACRE VICTIMS. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 02 December 2005 08:24 PM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Since it is known as a Christmas tree, I believe it should also be identified as such. If you want to be truly inclusive, allow a space and hang all sorts of decorations of all holidays (eg Christmas, Hanukkah).
From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 02 December 2005 08:27 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Strong? Only if religion is blatantly involved. Of course I know what "Christmas" means, but I think it's been watered down sufficiently, not the least of which by being associated with trees, elves, eggnog, gifts, Santa, office parties, etc., to be relatively inoffensive.

Calling a Christmas tree a "Holiday Tree" would, to me, be like calling a Menorah a "Holiday Candleholder". Why bother with the symbol if you can't even name it? I'd rather see everyone's holiday thingy get its due than see us continue with the object and bowdlerize the name.

I also look forward to the hoisting of the Festivus pole at City Hall, and perhaps Mayor Miller in one of the Feats of Strength.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
shaolin
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posted 02 December 2005 08:56 PM      Profile for shaolin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My only concern is how environmentally friendly it all is. From what I can tell, it seems that plastic trees are worse than real ones. One good idea seems to be buying one in a pot that can then be planted in the ground after the holidays. I guess that doesn't really work for city folk or those with small yards...
From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
alisea
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posted 02 December 2005 11:27 PM      Profile for alisea     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's a surprisingly complex and nuanced debate. The Ecology Action Centre here in Halifax has been promoting no-spray, no-pesticide trees for years. We avoid Christmas trees grown in plantations on formerly healthy Acadian forest that's been clear-cut.

IN terms of overall health of our forests, maybe we should have given up selling trees years ago. On the other hand, maybe in directing our buying power we're encouraging the growh of a more balanced and nuanced approach to how the forest industry is affecting our rural areas


From: Halifax, Nova Scotia | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
outlandist
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posted 02 December 2005 11:35 PM      Profile for outlandist        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The decorated tree is actually of pagan origins,celebrating the winter solstace.

Since everyone on earth experiences the winter solstace,if not celebrates it,the winter solstace tree is as inclusive as it can possibly be.It could be named a pagan name or yule tree.

Christmas however, is Christmas.No matter how much the party poopers moan on about faux traditions.Although many of the "traditions" are of relatively recent origin and mostly invented by ad agencies pandering for consumption,it is still Christmas.

I'm a beer drinking pagan and everyone is welcome to join in my cultural celebration.Call the tree anything you wish just remember getting the frozen tree through the doorway BEFORE slurping up the eggnog makes for a bushier tree and a much merrier spouse.


From: ontario | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
ohara
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posted 04 December 2005 06:03 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I found this interesting ditty on holiday trees that addresses this very issue.

Holiday trees??

[ 04 December 2005: Message edited by: ohara ]


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
MartinArendt
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posted 04 December 2005 06:06 PM      Profile for MartinArendt     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh tannenbaum, oh tannenbaum...how lovely are your something...oh tannenebaum, oh something something, how something are your something!

With something something, and sparkle...something...

That's about all I remember from the damn Christmas carols I was forced to sing in Elementary school. Usually, I just sat silently and refused to sing them, but sang the obligatory Channukah ones extra loud.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
outlandist
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posted 06 December 2005 01:05 AM      Profile for outlandist        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmmmm...Christmas and Easter are the only religious events declared a public holiday.No other religion has that privilege.Since it is unlikely that public holidays will be declared for the many events of other religions,I for one, do not see why the tree cannot be a symbol of inclusion.As long as it has a really cool name,not dorky "holiday tree".

[ 06 December 2005: Message edited by: outlandist ]


From: ontario | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 06 December 2005 03:25 AM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Whoever came up with the word Holiday Tree should...hmmm...cease living. What a way to play up the persecution narrative from the Christian Right. And really, its like the Elephant in the room syndrome, we all know it's a Christmas Tree, so why pretend? It's like the "12 days of giving", well no...it's the 12 days of Christmas (even though giving is clearly involved). We all know what it is. I'm fine with saying "Happy Holidays", because there are other holidays around that period..but still it's not like "Merry Christmas" is a horribly offensive thing in reality either. And if someone were to go off onto a rant about how they were offended by the sentiment behind it, then I'd probably have a good laugh and assume the person is insane.

But let's not try to moosh all these holidays into some all encompassing non-religious, totally secular orgy of consumer purchasing totally devoid of meaning for anyone. Even though that's what it seems like the holiday season has become. Judged by the fact that only places with holiday spirit anymore are the places where we shop.

Anyhow, thanks for the article Ohara, that was quite interesting. Really, the “Holiday Tree” is just a caricature of political correctness that just gives credence to those who claim “PC thugs” are “running amuck” of society...usually equating that with attempts to fight against racism, sexism, homophobia etc. These types then try to claim that any attempts to fight those things are wrong-headed because they're just trying to coat over trivial things like making sure Christmas Tree's become "Holiday Tree's". There's no need to give them any ammunition that at the same time makes us look stupid.

[ 06 December 2005: Message edited by: Vansterdam Kid ]


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
entish
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posted 06 December 2005 06:03 AM      Profile for entish     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm all for calling it a tannenbaum. Although, since 'Tannenbaum' means fir tree, perhaps it isn't an appropriate name when the tree in question is a pine or a spruce...
From: Deutschland | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Transplant
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posted 07 December 2005 11:26 AM      Profile for Transplant     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And to get us into the "Holiday" spirit:

Holiday gift ideas from Baby Bush Toys


From: Free North America | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
solarpower
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posted 07 December 2005 11:31 AM      Profile for solarpower   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
hahaha a terror alert xylophone.
I call christmas/holiday/pagan trees 'killing nature for our own selfish pleasures'.
Get one that can be replanted folks.

From: that which the creator created from | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 07 December 2005 11:56 AM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I already have 4 spruce trees ranging from 50 to 60 feet tall on my 35x125' lot. I don't have anywhere to plant any more evergreens. I suppose I could plant one on the bald prairie somewhere, but it wouldn't survive. Replanting isn't a solution for everyone.

And I'm still going to get a Christmas tree. So there.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Makwa
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posted 07 December 2005 12:07 PM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by solarpower:
I call christmas/holiday/pagan trees 'killing nature for our own selfish pleasures'
Trees hate our freedoms. Pave the trees.

From: Here at the glass - all the usual problems, the habitual farce | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Critical Mass2
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posted 07 December 2005 01:13 PM      Profile for Critical Mass2        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Napalm them.
From: AKA Critical Mass or Critical Mass3 - Undecided in Ottawa/Montreal | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Transplant
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posted 07 December 2005 01:22 PM      Profile for Transplant     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Rendition" them.
From: Free North America | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 07 December 2005 01:27 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Transplant:
And to get us into the "Holiday" spirit:

Holiday gift ideas from Baby Bush Toys


Pad-About Slippers


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 07 December 2005 04:07 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Never mind.

[ 07 December 2005: Message edited by: Rufus Polson ]


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 07 December 2005 04:19 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Die Tanne is a fir and the song isn't particularly religious, except for the reference to Weihnachtszeit (Christmastime, Christmas season). It is an obvious recuperation of an ancient pagan custom.

Martin, in the 19th century middle-class German-Jewish families celebrated with the Tannenbaum, and no religious overtones. Very different from Yiddishland to the East...

Once in Paris I wound up at a "Christmas" supper with an atheist Jew and an atheist Muslim, as well as a good number of third or fourth generation secular lapsed-Catholic French...

O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
Wie treu sind deine Blätter.
Du grünst nicht nur zur Sommerzeit,
Nein, auch im Winter, wenn es schneit.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
Wie treu sind deine Blätter.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
du kannst mir sehr gefallen.
Wie oft hat nicht zur Weihnachtszeit
Ein Baum von dir mich hoch erfreut.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
du kannst mir sehr gefallen.

O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
dein Kleid will mich was lehren:
die Hoffnung und Beständigkeit
gibt Trost und Kraft zu aller Zeit.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
dein Kleid will mich was lehren.

O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
dein Kleid will mich was lehren:
die Hoffnung und Beständigkeit
gibt Trost und Kraft zu aller Zeit.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
dein Kleid will mich was lehren.
Christmakah?


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Vigilante
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posted 07 December 2005 04:26 PM      Profile for Vigilante        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Christians seem about as pissed as the ol pagans would have been.

Anyway Does anyone do Festivus?


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 07 December 2005 06:06 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why bother? At babble the airing of grievances and feats of strenght are a year-long process, while dancing around the pole could raise the ire of BWAGA.
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged

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