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Author Topic: Former GI & friend disappear in Montreal
Hephaestion
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posted 30 August 2005 06:02 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There's just this one little detail. They're gay.

quote:
Two male dancers have disappeared in Montreal and police say they have little evidence to show what happened to them. Steve Wright, a native of Guerneville, in northern California, and Mark Kraynak of Uniontown, Pennsylvania, were last seen a week ago.

The two worked for an agency that supplies dancers and models for the adult entertainment industry. Both Wright and Kraynack were working at Remington's a gay strip bar in downtown Toronto and were expected to return to the United States late last week.

But, at the last minute they decided to make a trip to Montreal before heading home. They drove from Toronto to Montreal with another friend and their agent.

Wright and Kraynack left their hotel early last Monday morning and Kraynack called one of the other two friends from a taxi to say they were going to an after-hours club in suburban Laval.

That is the last anyone heard from them.

[...]

Kraynack and Wright are are both muscular and 6-foot-tall. Kraynak served with the Army's 82nd Airborne Division in Iraq until early last year and was known for superior strength and easy disposition. He is also a Purple Heart recipient. A family friend said that there is no way anyone would mess with him unless there was a gun involved.

Wright was considered by other dancers to be "a party boy". He liked the life that the money from stripping provided.

Police are still trying to find the cab driver. Investigators say there was nothing in the hotel room to indicate foul play but add they don't know what happened once the men got into the cab.


This is quite interesting... This story was featured fairly prominently on Globule News earlier. Mark Kraynak's mother has even come to Montreal, looking for the two, and was expressing frustration at how there was so little media interest in the story in the States. She wondered if there would be more if it were two daughters missing, rather than two sons. The report said they were working as models in Canada, and it also prominently mentioned Kraynak's wartime service in Iraq. But in all of this, there was not a single word that the two were gay, or that they were strippers. Kind of an odd detail to leave out, hmmm? Also might explain the "lack of interest" in the good ol' homophobic USA, eh? Wonder if it was Globule News or the mom that was soft-pedaling the gay angle...

Even still, I had looked at the pictures of the two and mentally said to myself that the one guy looked like maybe... let's just say I had a sneaking suspicion. Good to see my gaydar works even across network television.

[ 30 August 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Yst
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posted 30 August 2005 06:22 AM      Profile for Yst     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow. Remington's dancers. And just gone, on a trip to Montreal. This combined with the Barn tragedy and ensuing drama is making these seem strange days on Church Street.
From: State of Genderfuck | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 01 September 2005 04:12 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Radio is reporting that by following some sort of trace of the one guy's cell phone (missed the details), the cops had discovered two bodies in a stone quarry outside Laval. They think it's the two dancers. The mother has been alerted, but no positive ID yet. Still no mention of the g-word, though. How very odd...
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Stockholm
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posted 01 September 2005 04:18 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How often to articles mention that so and so was straight?
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Albireo
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posted 01 September 2005 04:18 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Quebec police find two bodies but won't say if they're missing U.S. models
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Hephaestion
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posted 01 September 2005 04:46 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:


How often to articles mention that so and so was straight?




Which *doesn't* explain why the media is all using the euphemism "models" to describe the missing pair, rather than "strippers" or even "dancers" (forget about the g-word)... Naw, there seemed to be an intentional effort not to be plain regarding what sort of work they did. It wasn't until I just read that Maclean's article just posted that I've seen/read any MSM mention of the "adult entertainment industry" or even "dancers". (And I find it a little odd that the radio referred to it as a "red light club" that the two had been headed to. First time I've heard *that* phrase.)

I just find it interesting, is all, especially considering the fact that if they were female they'd prolly be referred to in the MSM as "sex trade workers" or some such. I suspect it might be a case of relatives trying to "sanitize" and "edit out" things about the two that they are uncomfortable with. Are you saying that you don't think any of these details are germane to the story, Stock?

Edit: possibly I heard wrong the first time; the radio is calling it a "nightclub" in the latest newscast.

[ 01 September 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Paul Gross
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posted 01 September 2005 08:00 PM      Profile for Paul Gross   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This Globe story headlines their occupation Male stripper duo missing and implies that at least one of them was not exclusively gay:

quote:
The day before (Mark Kraynak and Steve Wright) disappeared, Mr. Manzi went on a tourist outing with them in Montreal. They went sightseeing in Old Montreal, took a horse carriage ride, visited Notre-Dame Basilica and gambled at a Montreal casino. Then, at night, at the suggestion of a pair of waitresses they met, they headed to a spot called Club Vatican on Crescent Street, a nightclub area popular with visiting U.S. students.

"We were all drinking, having a good time, dancing and talking to girls -- a normal guys night out," Mr. Manzi, 25, said in an interview yesterday.
...
Mr. Kraynak, who has a girlfriend back home, was to begin studying business administration in university, and his parents said he was uncomfortable with the work he was doing in Canada.


So is it possible the media was being responsible and un-exploitative by not presuming their sexual orientation based on their occupation?


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Charisma25
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posted 01 September 2005 08:52 PM      Profile for Charisma25        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just a newsflash for all the individuals that are making statements that Mark Kraynak was gay...

Mark Kraynak was not gay -- in fact, he was a really great guy who had a girlfriend that he cared about very much. I went to high school with Mark -- and have been good friends with him for years.

And for people like you to make assumptions about him -- makes me sick.
Mark went to Iraq - fought on the front line for each and every one of us -- he saved lives there -- got shot -- received a purple heart...and after he left the military all he wanted to do was go to college, find a good job, and a nice girl and have a nice life...
He was only doing what he was doing because he needed the money to pay for college --

He was one of the most beautiful people i have ever met in my whole life -- and anyone who had ever met him was truly blessed...
He will be missed by so many...


From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
stu_mtl
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posted 01 September 2005 09:45 PM      Profile for stu_mtl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Life must be very difficult and frustrating for Hephaestion, if he thinks that every goodlooking young man is gay.

The fact that the two murdered Americans worked at Remingtons (Toronto) does not mean that they were gay. Trust me on this one. I know what I'm talking about. Remingtons would be out of business, along with the half dozen male strip joints in Montreal, if only gays performed there.

If the two were gay, the last place in the world they would want to go to was a bar on Crescent Street. The Crescent St. strip is for heterosexual university students, young working men and women who dress to impress, and local bon vivants of indeterminate age.

The (after hours) Red Lite Club is way the hell up in Laval
Montreal/ Lavel map
{their hotel is about 1/3 inch above the "Montréal" in the bottom right quadrant near the end of the dark yellow line (at least 1/2 hour drive at night, and an expensive taxi ride), and not the spot for a guy to be cruising for men.

If they wanted a gay freindly after hours spot, they would have gone to the Unity (3 blocks from their hotel) or Stereo (across the street from their hotel).

As a gay man I must admit to being very interested in their story, but I would be quite happy for the families if the media returned to calling the two "models".


From: Montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
bexx
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posted 01 September 2005 09:55 PM      Profile for bexx     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The media was being responsible, the issue of their sexuality and or their choice of work while sparking the curiosity of many is not an issue. They were young men out enjoying themselves. The issue should be about what happened and what relates to it.

hopefull we will find out.

peace


From: Vermont and Montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Yst
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posted 01 September 2005 10:13 PM      Profile for Yst     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bexx:
The media was being responsible, the issue of their sexuality and or their choice of work while sparking the curiosity of many is not an issue. They were young men out enjoying themselves. The issue should be about what happened and what relates to it.

The determination of what happened is fundamentally connected at this point with their line of work and the testimony of coworkers. Saying it's isn't an issue is saying evidence isn't an issue. Evidence is very much an issue.


From: State of Genderfuck | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
bexx
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posted 01 September 2005 10:36 PM      Profile for bexx     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No one knows if this was connected to thier line of work and if it is then fine it should be considered, like the Mathew Shepard case, but when he was missing or found it wasn't about a GAY man it was about a man. If I get mugged tomorrow and it makes the paper, it shouldnt be about my sexuality or my job...unless its connect so far there is nothing to suggest that, and the original points....made were that the news didnt say they were GAY,,, and actually none of us know that unless YOU have some personal experience you are not disclosing
From: Vermont and Montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 01 September 2005 11:01 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So far it doesn't seem that it's work related.

quote:
Stephan Sirard, the owner of the California-based FCF who was accompanying the two Americans in Montreal, denies the nature of their work had anything to do with their disappearance. He conceded people of the adult entertainment industry sometimes faced stalkers, but stressed nobody knew they were going to Montreal.

link here.

[ 01 September 2005: Message edited by: mary123 ]


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 02 September 2005 12:20 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stu_mtl:

If the two were gay, the last place in the world they would want to go to was a bar on Crescent Street. The Crescent St. strip is for heterosexual university students, young working men and women who dress to impress, and local bon vivants of indeterminate age.

Come to think of it your right! Young gay men are never interested in well dressed college students. That is because they are gay-gay-gay, and only hang out in the gay gay gay ghetto. In fact the reason that I don't have any gay friends is because gay people never go anywhere but gay joints.

Oh wait, I do have gay friends! Gee whiz! how did that happen?

I mean, I don't know what your experience is, but mine is that there are plenty of gay men and lesbian women who don't like to be socially identified as gay. By which I mean, hang out only with gay people in gay clubs exclusively, or be in the scene.

[ 02 September 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 02 September 2005 07:06 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I stand corrected, possibly. I assumed that these two men were likely gay, and that their disappearance was likely related to their work. It turns out that may not be the case. I just thought it was odd that the fact they were exotic dancers in a club was not mentioned at first, even though I ssuspect it would have been right away, had the two missing people been female. (CBC TV news is finally mentioning the angle; Global TV still hasn't.)

And Charisma25... my sincere sympathies to you at the loss of a friend. This must be a shocking piece of news, and I feel for you. However, I in no way intended to denigrate the memory of either man by supposing that they might be gay. You see, to me "gay" is not an insult. I was just curious as to why certain information, which might play an important role in the case -- their jobs at a gay bar -- was not being reported in some media. Again though, my sincere sympathy at your loss.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 02 September 2005 09:22 AM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mark Kraynak's and Steve Wright's bodies found

quote:
The search for an area man who had gone missing in Canada took a possible turn for the worst Thursday after police found the bodies of two men at the bottom of a rock quarry behind a local nighttime hotspot in Montreal, near where the man and a friend disappeared last month.


Mark Kraynak, 23, of Uniontown was last seen at 3 a.m. on Aug. 22 outside a nightclub in Montreal with friend Steve Wright, 20, of Santa Rosa, Calif.

Shortly after his disappearance, Kraynak's family traveled to Canada to assist with the search and family and friends in Fayette County have been preparing a candlelight vigil for the Iraqi War veteran for this weekend.


Guy Lajeunesse, a police spokesman for the city of Laval, just north of Montreal, said the men's parents, who have been working with police on the investigation, were able to make the identifications of the found men.

"We're going to need an autopsy to show the cause of death," Lajeunesse said. "Right now, we don't know if they jumped, if they fell or if someone pushed them."


[ 02 September 2005: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Shazum
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posted 02 September 2005 04:15 PM      Profile for Shazum     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
what does it matter to you if the media reports that they're gay (or not...in this case). Would it make you happier if the media reports the name, age, gender and sexual orientation of every single person reported on?
From: Somewhere out there | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 02 September 2005 04:22 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Charisma25:
Mark Kraynak was not gay -- in fact, he was a really great guy

Um, those two things aren't mutually exclusive, you know. No one made any negative assumptions about him here. Maybe it's different in your neck of the woods, but here, especially on babble, it's not considered an insult to be called "gay", whether it's mistaken or not.

That said, I'm sorry for your loss.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
sportsguy
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posted 02 September 2005 09:00 PM      Profile for sportsguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have been following this sad story extensively over the past eleven days now and the current unsolved mystery would seem to come down to only four logical 4 potential scenarios:

1/ Both Robert and Steven together knowingly
jumped off this 60 foot quarry cliff...
{ The Double Suicide Scenario: RIDICULOUS...
especially given all of the background information provided on these two individuals
to date }

2/ Both men accidently walked together off
this 60 foot quarry cliff...
{ The Tragic Accident Scenario:
ONLY a potential scenario though IF it was still actually pitch dark out and they were lost and completely unfamiliar with the terrain involved...
And to believe this scenario you also have to get past the obvious question as to why they would both head off the beaten path into an unlit and deserted area in the first place!

3/ Both guys were the victims of foul-play...
{ The Double Homicide Scenario involving either:
A/ being pushed off this 60 foot quarry cliff
B/ or being murdered elsewhere and later
having their bodies dragged back to
or thrown off this cliff location in order to make it appear that an "accident" had occured instead of the actual double murder.

Hopefully, the autopsies will provide some definitive answers in regards to the double homicide scenario...especially if there are injuries found to be inconsistent with an accidental 60 foot fall { eg/ knife or bullet wounds / evidence of severe beatings
or if it is determined that they were also
both robbed...all specific questions which investigators on the scene yesterday did not address at this stage }

Importantly, there was a message posted earlier this afternoon on the Robert Kraynak / Steven Wright webpage / www.missingangels.com...
which IF actually authentic and accurate could lend major new support to the double homicide scenario.
The specific message sounds authentic and was alledgedly posted by Steven Wright's aunt out
in Caifornia who has just recently returned
from Montreal.
She states that although police have maintained since the outset of the investigation on August 23rd that there is no video evidence from the after-hours club in Laval to confirm that the pair ever showed up there at all..
She makes the following comment regarding
the current ongoing police investigation:

{ "Now they are trying to say that they { Robert and Steven }were there until 5:30am" }

IF this an accurate comment and there is in fact perphaps some eyewitness testimony now to confirm that Robery and Steven were in fact spotted at the club in Laval until 5:30am...then the double homicide scenario would appear to be the most obvious one.
The reason being that according to the Montreal
weather / astronomy charts for Aug 22nd...
sunrise occurs on that morning historically at 6:04 am...while "civil morning twilight" occurs
at 5:30am.
{ Meaning that during civil morning twilight at 5:30am there is more than sufficient light before
actual sunrise to see where you would be walking...definitely to notice that you were walking in the direction of a steep quarry cliff! }

In any case, I join in offering my sympathy to the family and friends of Robert and Steven and hope that the cause of this tragedy will be determined as soon as humanly possible


From: toronto | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ken S
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posted 03 September 2005 01:22 AM      Profile for Ken S     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Charisma25:
Just a newsflash for all the individuals that are making statements that Mark Kraynak was gay...

Mark Kraynak was not gay -- in fact, he was a really great guy who had a girlfriend that he cared about very much.
...
And for people like you to make assumptions about him -- makes me sick.
Mark went to Iraq - fought on the front line for each and every one of us -- he saved lives there -- got shot -- received a purple heart...and after he left the military all he wanted to do was go to college, find a good job, and a nice girl and have a nice life...


It's unfortunate that in the process of making a valid point (namely that people shouldn't necessarily assume that he was gay just because some of the work he was doing involved stripping for gay men) you have to undermine it with subtle homophobic invective (namely that if he was gay that it would preclude his being a 'great guy').

I agree that it's pointless and perhaps not entirely appropriate of people who never knew him to presume that he was gay just because of his occupation. Straight men strip in front of other men for money. I've read in the papers that he and Steve Wright also worked in adult films, no reference made to the market audience of those films, but even if they were gay films that still doesn't mean they were simply performing a job for money.

However, your response seemed to imply that *if* he was gay then he couldn't have been a 'great guy,' and couldn't have been a soldier or a hero. That's equally insensitive, and by way of illustration I'd ask you to keep an open mind and consider for a moment:

What if he was? What if they both were, and didn't feel they could be honest about it in their respective homes? What if his term of service in the military, he had to live under 'don't ask, don't tell' and when he got injured and received a medal he did so knowing that he's be booted out of the military if he was open about his orientation? And what if, while he and Mr Wright were up here in Canada they had an opportunity to be open and honest about it? What if, while living in Toronto, the two of them got married, but he felt that he could never tell his friends and family back in the States about it because in everyone saw him as the 'great' straight guy war hero and he felt certain no one could bear to see him as anything else? What if, time to return home looming in front of them, they decided to do something unfortunate together rather than go home apart and live lies?

I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm saying, IF that was the case, or anything close to it, then who would be disrespecting his memory more? The guys who speculate because they'd like to think that maybe an attractive man was 'one of their own,' or the close friends back home who he couldn't be himself with- who he was so sure wouldn't accept him for who he really was that he had to live a double life and who, once he may have found some sincere happiness, he couldn't face for fear that it would all crash down around him?

It may sound like it's off the topic of his loss, but try to keep an open mind and think of how he would feel IF he actually was gay, and from some kind of afterlife he could see now someone who cared for him can't even entertain the possibility of who he really was even after he's gone. Maybe we'll never know. Maybe we will, and you'll be right. But maybe we will, and the theory I've offered will be right, and how will you feel about him then?


From: eastern Canada | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
volcom05
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posted 03 September 2005 09:11 AM      Profile for volcom05     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

[ 03 September 2005: Message edited by: volcom05 ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 03 September 2005 02:28 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Another possible motive that MAY be work related after all:
quote:
The deaths have cast a light on the murky world of the adult entertainment industry in Canada.

Both men had been hired from the United States by French Connection Française, also known as FCF, to perform as strippers earning as much as $1,000 (U.S.) a night. Mr. Wright performed in porn movies as well.

Last year, a 23-year-old Canadian woman who also worked for FCF, Natel King, was murdered while doing freelance work on a pornographic photo shoot in Pennsylvania. Ms. Kraynak says her son was disenchanted with his work and planned to leave the industry.

"I feel that this event [his death] has a direct or indirect link to what my son was doing," Ms. Kraynak said, "and I don't think he was doing it willingly."


link


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 03 September 2005 02:37 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Natel King was killed in what either a bungled SM scene, or a premeditated snuff scene. Those persons alledgedly responsible were arressted.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
cookie
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posted 03 September 2005 02:40 PM      Profile for cookie        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've been fascinated how the media are reporting this story and how babblers have been responding. Aside from whether the media were hiding the potential gay-angle, it's taken a long time for the media to release that these men were strippers.

Is there a bias against mentioning that a victim was working as a sex-trade worker (stripper, or prostitute, or call girl) when that information may help in solving their murders? Who are the media protecting?


From: Kingston | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
brebis noire
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posted 03 September 2005 02:42 PM      Profile for brebis noire     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This story deeply depresses me on many levels, including one that I'm surprised hasn't been brought up on this thread.

I'm wondering if any other Quebec babblers are pondering possible links with the Hell's Angels in this, since they have their hands on pretty much everything remotely criminal, from drugs to escorts, including exotic dancers, and 'professional' break-ins and theft rings. By this I'm not implying any personal connections between the victims and the Hell's, it might be any kind of scenario, including just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


From: Quebec | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 03 September 2005 02:43 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I found this: I found this... for what it is worth.

quote:
The last person to talk with Natel was her roommate in Canada, whom she called to say that she was "weirded out" by the Frederick photo shoot. According to the roommate, Natel said Frederick "was kind of weird, and that she was worried. I asked if she was worried about not getting paid or getting killed, and she said, 'I don't know. Both."

Fellow porn model Autumn Rayne remembered meeting Natel at a bondage photo shoot seven months ago and described her as "very confident, very professional, very responsible."

"I told her it wasn't a safe thing to be traveling alone," Rayne said. "I don't travel alone, and if someone tells me they have a job and they tell me my husband can't come, I say, `Sorry, I can't do the shoot for you.'"



From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
MariaPHD4
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posted 03 September 2005 06:18 PM      Profile for MariaPHD4        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
FYI... I think it is HORRIBLE that all anyone seems to be concerned about is whether or not they're gay (which I don't believe at ALL that they were).... For HEAVEN'S SAKE... the boys are GONE from this earth now... who knows how they suffered when leaving and now their families have to suffer for a LONG TIME, missing them.... I am a 2nd cousin of Mark... he was a VERY NICE person from a great family, who lost his life way too young for no good reason what-so-ever!
And from the beginning I blamed the owner of the agency... no coincidence there.
This world would be a better place if everyone worried about their OWN SELF and had more of a caring heart instead of one that gossips.

From: USA | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
excy
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posted 03 September 2005 06:51 PM      Profile for excy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think if you scroll back, you will see a lot of compassion and sympathy for the loss of these two young men. This story has been reported in the local newspapers since the day that these men went missing, so there is a LOT of interest. If it is indeed a crime, everyone I have spoken to wants to see it rapidly solved. The coronors and personnel of the crime laboratory are working on this as I type. It is really, REALLY a shame that two visitors to the Montreal area died...while on a weekend visit. Each time a newspaper report appears there seems to be more and more information about the private lives of the two men involved. I understand that this may be distressing for the family and friends of Mark Kraynak and Steve Wright. I could care less if these two men were gay.....but it might be important to know about other details in order to resolve the case as quicky as possible. Again, my sympathies to the family and friends of the deceased.
From: montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
ric10100
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posted 03 September 2005 08:09 PM      Profile for ric10100        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mark was not gay. I'm a fan of his and have followed his career in adult entertainment. He has never done anything remotely "gay." The only hard core sex I've seen him in is a movie on a web site performing straight sex. I don't think a gay man would have done as good as job as he did. You can really tell he is enjoying himself and not feeling pressured to do something he doesn't want to do. His name is Nick at a site called "Straight Guys for Gay Eyes" - www.sg4ge.com
From: Los Anegles | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 03 September 2005 11:59 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Two young American men were likely murdered in Montreal and it's really sad. I offer my condolences to the friends and families of both young men.
I am also interested that this crime is solved and those responsible get punished. I don't mean any disrespect nor gossip in publishing news about this crime. I would love to see those responsible for this heinous crime caught.
Montreal and Toronto are 2 very tolerant cities towards gays and lesbians and that's as it should be.
Still I am shocked and very saddened at the oncoming details of this horrible crime. Their being gay or not doesn't matter to me, I'm accepting of people of all sexualities as is the case here in Montreal as it should be. I just suspect some weird foul play that I cannot put my finger on.

I hope this case is quickly solved for all involved.


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
dancer2
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posted 05 September 2005 02:39 PM      Profile for dancer2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Have the results of the autopsies been made public yet?

Would someone in Canada please let us know; U.S. newspapers are not covering the case.

Thank you.


From: Chicago, Illinois | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 05 September 2005 03:50 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How odd... here I thought that Faux News' Greta Von Susternin (or however the hell she spells it) was the permanent, full-time correspondent on Kids of Americans Missing in Foreign Countries.

(Sorry to any friends/family of the two men; my snark is aimed at Faux News and that vapid vulture, Greta Von-Whatever. They both make me ill. But yes, if I come across any news, I'll post it here...)

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 05 September 2005 04:38 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All my sympathies to American families and friends looking for news of Mark and Steve. You should know that today is a holiday in Canada, so news from official sources may be slow just now.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 05 September 2005 09:42 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's a holiday there too, isn't it?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 06 September 2005 09:01 AM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestion:
How odd... here I thought that Faux News' Greta Von Susternin (or however the hell she spells it) was the permanent, full-time correspondent on Kids of Americans Missing in Foreign Countries.

Only when they're white women who disappear in nice vacation spots.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Melsky
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posted 06 September 2005 09:18 AM      Profile for Melsky   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
It's a holiday there too, isn't it?

Yes, but it's called Labor Day insead of Labour Day.


From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
dancer2
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posted 06 September 2005 05:00 PM      Profile for dancer2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Still no word from the Montreal police on the deaths of Mark Kraynak and Steve Wright?
From: Chicago, Illinois | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 06 September 2005 06:17 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Melsky:

Yes, but it's called Labor Day insead of Labour Day.


Yes its those pesky french spellings the American's adopted, in an attempt to subvert Canadian unity. Will they never give up?


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 06 September 2005 06:22 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dancer2:
Still no word from the Montreal police on the deaths of Mark Kraynak and Steve Wright?

One thing to try, if you want to stay up on Canadian News stories is to try Yahoo.ca, not Yahoo.com, the Yahoo.ca site has special focus on Canadian news. Another problem may be that a lot of the day-to-day snooping will be done by Quebcoise journalists, as this is a Quebec story more than it is a national story, and as a result, much of the local stories will be in french, not English.

An additional problem is that the CBC has locked out its journalists as part of a labour dispute.

Also, expect the police to be a little more quite about what they are doing than in the US. The police chief is unlikely to call a pres ocnference to reasure everyone that the police are doing their job.

I am sorry that you are having trouble getting up-to-date news.

[ 06 September 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 06 September 2005 06:50 PM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For what it's worth (and my apologies if it's just stuff you knew already),here's a story from last Saturday's La Presse, in French, titled 'The mystery persists.' Basically, the police still don't have a good handle on what happened that night. They still had their wallets (with money still inside), jewelry and their cell phones, so the police don't think it was a robbery. Because of the condition their bodies were in, they couldn't tell right away if they were victims of violence before the fall. They're waiting for the results of the autopsy, to be done sometime this week.

I've not been able to find anything more recent in the Montreal newspapers' sites.


From: . | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
K Connor
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posted 07 September 2005 06:25 PM      Profile for K Connor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Local Montreal CBC radio reported this morning that the preliminary autopsy showed no signs of violence and that the cause of death was likely falling into the quarry. My understanding was that a more thorough autopsy was still to take place.

Edited to add Globe and Mail story link.

[ 07 September 2005: Message edited by: K Connor ]


From: Montreal | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
RubyRenegade
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posted 08 September 2005 05:54 AM      Profile for RubyRenegade     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i'll be sure to keep everyone posted on the truth. come back on 9.11.05
[/IMG]

From: cloud9 | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
HerculesRockefeler
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posted 08 September 2005 06:17 AM      Profile for HerculesRockefeler        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe they had AIDS, and it was a suicide pact.
From: ME | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 08 September 2005 06:34 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
... and maybe you're an insensitive fathead ignoramus, but unfortunately you *haven't* made a suicide pact with anyone...
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
HerculesRockefeler
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posted 08 September 2005 06:55 AM      Profile for HerculesRockefeler        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, if they weren't attacked, robbed, beaten, drunks, high, etc, what's left?

1-Both slipped at the same time
2-Both jumped at the same time
3-1 jumped, then the other jumped out of grief
4-1 slipped, then the other slipped trying to rescue the 1st


From: ME | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 08 September 2005 07:28 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hercules, heartbroken family and friends are reading this thread for news. Your comments would be offensive on babble at any time, but in this context, they are outrageous.

Yes, I'm protesting to audra.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
HerculesRockefeler
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posted 08 September 2005 07:52 AM      Profile for HerculesRockefeler        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
Hercules, heartbroken family and friends are reading this thread for news.

Right. Americans are looking at a little-known Canadian website for info about their loved ones, instead of dealing with their own local authorities who, we presume, are liasing with their Canadian counterparts.


From: ME | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 08 September 2005 08:02 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tra-la-la.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Suzette
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posted 08 September 2005 08:16 AM      Profile for Suzette     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by HerculesRockefeler:
Maybe they had AIDS, and it was a suicide pact.

That is utterly moronic.


From: Pig City | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Alocam
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posted 11 September 2005 12:08 AM      Profile for Alocam     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by HerculesRockefeler:

Right. Americans are looking at a little-known Canadian website for info about their loved ones, instead of dealing with their own local authorities who, we presume, are liasing with their Canadian counterparts.


HerculesRockefeler: I am American, and I say that just to put the next comment into perspective: HerculesRockefeler, you have got to be kidding! Friends and relatives ARE looking here at this little known website because it contains INFORMATION on these guys! Canada, last time I checked, is an INDEPENDENT nation! If someone, from anywhere, goes missing in CANADA, it's CANADA's business. Let me think... my brother goes missing in Germany, so I dial 911 and call my local police. Do you know what they'll say HerculesRockefeler? They'll say they have no authority, and no business in the matter. It's a LOCAL problem. It's up to the authorities in CANADA to solve this mystery.

You act like those of us who knew of these guys BEFORE they disappeared don't have a right to try and get information from a website in Canada?

Are you bored, or just uninformed? Sounds like you need a little training on the laws of Canada! The U.S. authorities have no right or privilege to contact Canadian authorities unless they think they have information directly related to the crime. By treaty with the USA, Canada only has to respond to inquiries made by the US Ambassador to authorities in Ottawa.

At this time it appears that the Canadian authorities ARE working to solve this crime. Canada is known for having excellent, world-class forensic and investigative professionals. They do not need 'our' help down here in the states.

I have every confidence the capable CANADIAN authorities will solve this case. That's what they do, and they do it well.

Your comments about a suicide pact were not only moronic; they were insensitive, and thoughtless.


From: Great Falls, MT | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
faith
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posted 11 September 2005 12:26 AM      Profile for faith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well said Alocam, I hope the families of the 2 men get the answers they are looking for.
From: vancouver | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
MonkeyIslanderPolical23
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posted 15 September 2005 12:54 AM      Profile for MonkeyIslanderPolical23        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
This combined with the Barn tragedy and ensuing drama is making these seem strange days on Church Street.

I'm sorry to have to ask, but what does the Barn tragedy refer to? Doing a google search doesn't help.


From: Ontario | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 15 September 2005 01:42 AM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe this. But enough thread drift...
From: --> . <-- | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
scooter
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posted 15 September 2005 09:51 AM      Profile for scooter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mary123:
Two young American men were likely murdered in Montreal and it's really sad....I am also interested that this crime is solved and those responsible get punished....Still I am shocked and very saddened at the oncoming details of this horrible crime.

Jumping to conclusions is about the only crime I see here.

From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
excy
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posted 21 September 2005 10:22 PM      Profile for excy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
MONTREAL -- The investigation into the deaths of the two American men found in a Laval quarry on August 22 has revealed that they never made it to their intended destination of the Red Light bar.

Steve Wright, 20, and Mark Kraynak, 23, were last seen getting into a downtown cab and heading towards the suburban nightspot.

Surveillance tapes confirm that they never entered the club.


This report was just posted in the Montreal Gazette. Still a big mystery and no sign of the taxi driver.


From: montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
stu_mtl
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posted 01 October 2005 11:46 AM      Profile for stu_mtl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From the National Post:

Strippers' deaths appear accidental


Ran toward Laval quarry while taxi followed them



CanWest News Service

Saturday, October 01, 2005

MONTREAL - Two American male strippers found in a Laval quarry last month fell accidentally to their deaths, according to new evidence.

Surveillance videotapes taken from the after-hours club where Steve Wright, 20, and Mark Kraynak, 23, were last seen alive, show a cab arriving at the club in the early morning hours of Aug. 22.

The video from the Red Lite after-hours club then shows the two men running full speed towards the nearby quarry and the cab following them.

Const. Guy Lajeunesse, a Laval police spokesman, confirmed yesterday that the two men's deaths no longer appear to be murders.

However, Const. Lajeunesse said it was not known whether the men were skipping out without paying their $35 taxi fare from a downtown club.

"We have two or three theories," said Const. Lajeunesse.

The bodies of Mr. Wright and Mr. Kraynak were found badly decomposed on a ledge in the Laval quarry on Sept. 1.

Yesterday, Mr. Wright's mother, Cheryl Crockett, and Stephan Sirard, a family friend, threw flowers into the quarry's pit and released balloons.

After the modest memorial ceremony, she enlisted the media's help in order to appeal to the Montreal taxi driver who drove her son to the Laval club that night to come forward.

"I don't know what happened," said Ms. Crockett. "I'm hoping the taxi driver will come forward and give me some answers."

It was Ms. Crockett's first visit to the site. She had travelled from Santa Rosa, Calif.. where she lives.

Janice Kraynak, the mother of Mr. Kraynak, was not at the quarry yesterday.

After viewing the videotapes this week, Ms. Crockett said, she and Mr. Sirard retraced the steps of the two men that night.

She said she could imagine how they plunged to their deaths. The quarry, which is tucked behind an industrial park, is cordoned off by high barb-wired fence.

But in the dark, Ms. Crockett said, they could not have seen that on the other side of the fence was a 15-metre cliff.

She commended the Laval police but said she is angry with the Montreal police department's investigation of her son's death.

She complained that surveillance tapes that were taken from other buildings closer to the fence around the quarry were not confiscated in time.

By the time they were collected, new footage had been recorded over the evidence, Ms. Crockett complained.

The cab in the video was a four-door, medium-coloured vehicle. The number on the cap can not be read, nor the driver seen clearly.

There are 642 Montreal cabs that fit the description, Const. Lajeunesse said.

Ms. Crockett said that her son and Mr. Kraynak were found with $90 Canadian and $7 American in their pockets and more than enough to pay their cab ride."I don't understand," she said, tearfully. "They had money."

© National Post 2005


From: Montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
sharkelic
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posted 04 October 2005 08:26 PM      Profile for sharkelic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
please visit

http://www.merb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11387&page=51&pp=18


we need more help from montreal residents


From: California | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 04 October 2005 08:43 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Where the hell is the cab driver? The police should be stopping at nothing to determine exactly who the cab driver was for the guys. He could hold the key to a lot of things.
From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
sharkelic
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posted 04 October 2005 09:23 PM      Profile for sharkelic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
EXACTLY! I am completely disappointed in how they can ALREADY come up with a theory that just DOES NOT make sense.

"Mark never stiffed anyone in his life. He paid
his way through life to the point of being ridiculous. In the time he spent living in our household he would dump his cereal back into
the box if he were out of milk. Nevermind that we had an entire gallon in the fridge. If he didn't pay for it, he didn't touch it.
It drove me nuts. This guy bought his own laundry detergent, shampoo, you name it. About the only thing I could get him to touch
were the peanut butter Oreos that were a constant in the cookie jar. And he NEVER ate the last one. THAT was Mark. So, anyone that
falls for this duped up theory is on the wrong page. Furthermore, has it been proven that the cab was a legitimate cab? And again I
question, who did he attempt to call at 3:30AM??? And why were we told the entire time the boys were missing that Mark's phone was off
and therefore could not be traced? How then is it possible that they were eventually located by tracing the cell phone 10 days later???? It's been reported that their bodies were "fractured".
In this day of "CSI" and the such wouldn't it be possible to tell how these fractures were inflicted? How many fractures and to what
parts of their bodies? What injury caused death? And I still don't understand how they ended up in such close proximity to eachother.
Steven was allegedly running a distance behind Mark. Mark disappears over a cliff so Steven keeps running?? Come on! No sensible person is buying this crap. "

[ 04 October 2005: Message edited by: sharkelic ]


From: California | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 05 October 2005 07:33 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mother does not believe son's death was "accidental"

quote:
The deaths of two American male exotic dancers whose bodies were found in a suburban Montreal quarry have been ruled accidental.

Police say the pair likely fell to their deaths in the darkness fleeing a cab after avoiding paying the fare.

[...]

A Laval police spokesperson said that tape from a video surveillance camera outside the club showed Kraynack and Wright jumping out of the cab and running with the driver in pursuit. Police are still looking to question the taxi driver.

The men apparently jumped the fence surrounding the quarry but did not realize it was a shear drop of 50-feet. Warning signs on the fence were in French only, a language neither man spoke.

[...]

Kraynak's mother said she does not accept the police account, although she has been shown the video. Janice Kraynak said that she believes there is more to her son's death.

She said that there was money in his pocket; he had money in the bank; an automatic teller card and credit cards.

"I have reason to believe my son was being threatened at the time," she said. "To me, he was running for his life. That's what it looks like to me."

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 05 October 2005 07:58 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hope that the police continue the search for the cab driver. Even with six hundred-some to check out, they should be able to do that, and this case shouldn't be closed until then.

I would tend to believe the autopsies, though. Someone above raises the question of what "fractures" might mean -- I'm assuming that the forensics people can distinguish between the effects of impact from a fall and blows inflicted before death, although I'm no expert.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
sharkelic1
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posted 07 October 2005 12:40 AM      Profile for sharkelic1        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
new discussion board!!


http://www.quicktopic.com/33/H/4nrxQ8J5dKyn


From: California | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Kinetix
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Babbler # 5296

posted 07 October 2005 01:04 AM      Profile for Kinetix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
AUGHHHH SPAMGETLOST!
From: Montréal, Québec | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
sharkelic1
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Babbler # 10566

posted 07 October 2005 06:31 AM      Profile for sharkelic1        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2005/10/taxi_driver.html#more


The phone call from the cab also indicates one other thing (and who knows whether this is important or not): the men apparently did not know where they were going when they parted with their friend. There is a good chance that sometime between when they said good-bye to Manzi and when they made the phone call, someone steered them towards the Red Light club.


From: California | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 22 March 2006 01:26 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dead dancers' families incensed at release of video

quote:
The families of two men who died while on holiday in Montreal last summer are incensed that the men's agent is releasing a porn video taken shortly before their deaths.

[...]

Before leaving for Montreal the pair appeared in an adult video made by Sirard. It will be released next week and Sirard says he intends to donate a portion of the film's proceeds to Wright's biological mother, Cheryl Crockett.

But, Wright's stepmother, accuses Sirard of distorting the facts. Tawni Wright said her stepson had little to do with his biological mother. She said that she and his father, Frank Wright had raised him.

The mother of Mark Kraynak accused Sirard of capitalizing on her son's death.

Janice Kraynak said she is "sickened" that Sirard and Crockett stand to profit from the men's deaths and is exploring legal action to stop the film from being released.

"He said it is something the boys would have wanted, but that is not true of my son," Kraynak said.

[...]

The video is being marketed as a "straight" video but reportedly contains "solo scenes"

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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