babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » current events   » national news   » Iraq's Government Now Unlawful

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Iraq's Government Now Unlawful
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 15 August 2005 06:45 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Various news sites are telling us that Iraqi negotiators failed to come to agreement on the Constitution today, and so have asked for a week's extension.

For example:

quote:
Iraq's parliament tonight agreed to allow an extra week for negotiators to finalise a draft constitution after delegates failed to meet a midnight deadline.
Parliament adjourned after voting to extend the deadline until August 22.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1549614,00.html

But Juan Cole's site points out what the others don't. According to the interim Constitution, the Transitional Administrative Law, or TAL, if no Constitution is presented by August 15th, the National Assembly must be dissolved. It has no authority.

So, now the Iraq Assembly is operating with no legal authority, and deciding on a new constitution on that basis.

You would think that would get into the news, but I have seen nothing except Cole on it.

http://www.juancole.com/


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 15 August 2005 06:56 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We should have a contest to guess exactly how the rightwingers in the States will spin this.

My submission:

"A week's extension? It's just a week, you treasonous pessimists. What's wrong with that? Freedom requires time and patience and...extensions."

[ 15 August 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8238

posted 15 August 2005 06:59 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We call 'em "Freedom Extensions" now.
From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 15 August 2005 07:05 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Or extension fries? God, I'm hopelessly confused.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
maestro
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7842

posted 16 August 2005 03:53 AM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fried freedom
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
thwap
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5062

posted 16 August 2005 09:18 AM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, they made the deadline for the Florida election results binding in 2000, they ought to suck this one up now.
From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4169

posted 16 August 2005 01:14 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
We should have a contest to guess exactly how the rightwingers in the States will spin this.

My submission:

"A week's extension? It's just a week, you treasonous pessimists. What's wrong with that? Freedom requires time and patience and...extensions."

[ 15 August 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]



No need for the contest ... 'Kinda-sleazy-rice' was on the tube last night saying how it was within the power of the Iraq Assembly to extend the deadline ... so the answer to how they are going to spin this is simple: they will do what they always do in these cases, tell an outright lie.

The media ran with it, and nobody bothered to even question the possibility that the Iraq Assembly was now suppose to dissolve, despite all the way up to the last day they were all speculating on if the constitution would get done, how important it was to get it done by the deadline, and what would happen if the talks failed.

Right down the memory hole with you, you nasty truth!


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 16 August 2005 01:17 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know. Predicting what Condo and the rest of the rest of those miscreants will say about anything is like shooting fish in a barrel. They even lie when they use the word "and."
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 16 August 2005 01:44 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Meanwhile, here is what the Globe and Mail reported:

quote:
Baghdad — Iraq's parliament agreed to a seven-day extension for leaders to complete a draft constitution, after politicians failed to reach a midnight Monday deadline to agree on the charter.

Parliament adjourned after voting to extend the deadline until Aug. 22, acting on a request from Kurdish leaders for more time.


By extending the deadline, Parliament acted illegitimately, since its own power could not be extended past August 15th.

And the Constitution-negotiators must eventually get the approval of 2/3 of Parliament. This bunch is no longer Parliament, according to the TAL.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 16 August 2005 03:38 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The New York Times was somewhat better, at least alluding to the fact that the constitution "might" have to be amended (by 3/4 vote) before an extension could occur:

quote:
Iraqi leaders remained deadlocked Sunday over major issues in the country's new constitution, raising the possibility they would fail to meet the Monday deadline and push the country toward a political crisis.

With several questions unresolved, Shiite leaders said Sunday that they were considering asking the National Assembly to approve the document without the agreement of the country's Sunni leaders. Such a move would probably provoke the Sunnis, whose participation in the political process is seen as crucial in the effort to marginalize the Sunni-dominated guerrilla insurgency.

Shiite and Kurdish leaders said they were also considering giving themselves more time to reach a deal, though it was by no means certain that they could without amending the interim constitution, the law currently in force. That would require a three-fourths majority of the 275-member National Assembly.



From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 16 August 2005 08:05 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Shouldn't this be in the middle east section.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 16 August 2005 10:10 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Juan Cole is now saying the Iraqi parliament voted to amend the interim constitution to allow the permanent constitution to be presented for a vote on August 22 rather than Aug. 15.

Apparently that's sufficient to make the delay legal.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 21 August 2005 07:52 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Source
quote:
"If the text is not handed to the national assembly by the deadline... one choice is to ask for another one-week extension or the other is to dissolve the parliament," Leith Kubba, spokesman for Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari, told reporters.

Iraqi leaders are already working on an extended deadline after having missed the original August 15 date to submit their first post-Saddam Hussein constitution to parliament under the current interim law.

It was believed that the August 22 deadline was a one-time extension, but experts said that Iraq could seek innumerable extensions.

[snip]

"We have a problem here... there is one group who wants a 21st century constitution and there is another group who wants a seventh century constitution," said one source.

[snip]

The United States Saturday dropped its opposition to enshrining Islam as "the" main source of legislation and not just "a" main source -- a move aimed at pleasing the majority Shiites.


Paving the way for theocracy in Iraq…

[ 21 August 2005: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

[ 21 August 2005: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 21 August 2005 07:53 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
TinyURL. Pretty please?
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 21 August 2005 07:57 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:
TinyURL. Pretty please?
Not necessary.

All that's necessary is forum software with a preview function.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 21 August 2005 08:23 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I do not think it is legal, and I don't read Cole as saying it is legal, either.

Well, perhaps we should say "legal". The deadlines in the so-called Constitution have not been amended, and they say quite explicitly that any request for a postponement of the deadline may not be made after August 1st.

So, when they postponed the deadline on August 15th, they were doing something which, in a small way, the US occupier had ruled out.

That's why, as the Cole blog makes clear, the US Ambassador stormed out in a fury when they did it.

The "Constitution" in Iraq is hard to amend. So they are ignoring it. Of course, it is just the US-imposed TAL, so maybe it isn't so bad that they do so.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca