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Author Topic: Michaëlle Jean - prise deux
lagatta
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posted 05 August 2005 12:40 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The other thread is far too long, so if people are interested we could consider discussing this here.

Hinterland has a good point: Michaëlle Jean has been well known here for many years; conversely, I doubt very much the francophones I know outside media circles are familiar with the English CBC personalities listed on the thread, with the - notorious - exception of Don Cherry.

Here is a Radio-Canada bio of Michaëlle Jean

My only query is why she accepted such a ceremonial post? We've been kicking the idea around - most of the cases seem to be a "distinguished end of career"... But it isn't really my business, and it is her choice.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kevin_Laddle
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posted 05 August 2005 12:43 PM      Profile for Kevin_Laddle   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Does anyone have any qualms with CBC journalists being appointed by the Prime Minister to G.G.? Couldn't this play into the minds of some up and coming journalists looking to get on the prime minister's good side, and compromise their journalistic integrity?
From: ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST STATE. ASK THE FAMILIES OF THE QANA MASSACRE VICTIMS. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
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posted 05 August 2005 12:47 PM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If someone offered me the job I'd take it. I think it would be fascinating, and make for very interesting memoirs one day
That being said I'm not crazy about the GG job to begin with, but if someone has to do it, I'm glad it's not another "pale stale male".

[ 05 August 2005: Message edited by: Nikita ]


From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
brebis noire
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posted 05 August 2005 01:10 PM      Profile for brebis noire     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Nikita:
I'm glad it's not another "pale stale male".

I think that someone had decided that the GG was fast becoming an irrelevant post (from the media's point of view; the rest of us have known for a long time it's a figurehead thing) so they've glammed it up in the Princess Di fashion. Women are more interesting, IMHO, they say more interesting things and are generally more interesting to look at.
I don't think Michaëlle Jean is a token, I think she's a reflection of the times, and in terms of actual influence, there's a lot of potential there. But the influence is subject to the actual power, I don't think we can ignore that.


From: Quebec | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 05 August 2005 01:19 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
My only query is why she accepted such a ceremonial post? We've been kicking the idea around - most of the cases seem to be a "distinguished end of career"... But it isn't really my business, and it is her choice.

She's young enough to have a lengthy career after her term ends, and (maybe this is just me) having that experience in your background could go a long way to adding a lot of value to a career, especially in media/journalism. Of course, she could decide to accept a position in the Carlysle Group after her term, which would be a huge disappointment. But, who knows?

On the value of the GG's position, I'm firmly convinced that having separate positions for head of state and head of government is a good thing for a democracy. I think we should move to making this position an elected one (?...I'm not keen on politicians anymore, for obvious reasons, so I'm not enthusiastic about having more of them), and should make the GG the official head of state. But, so long as we have things the way they are, I'm satisfied the PM hasn't made a poor choice.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 05 August 2005 02:22 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In Republics where there is a ceremonial head of state, often the "President" or whatever is chosen from a field outside partisan politics, such as the arts or sciences. I remember that Israel initially wanted Einstein as first head of state.

There is a potential problem with electing a ceremonial head of state: he or she could challenge the head of government in terms of who wields effective power. Think Charles de Gaulle ...


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 05 August 2005 02:30 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Exactly. It's not something I rush head-long into. A lot of governments use the elected body to select the head of state, no?

I should look that up and inform myself...but...God, I'm lazy these days.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
brookmere
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posted 05 August 2005 04:21 PM      Profile for brookmere     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Great picture (hi-res!) here.

Don't take this seriously, but doesn't her husband look like a sex tourist? Seriously - I admire the guy for landing such a great wife. I've been a regular viewer of Rough Cuts and the Passionate Eye since before M.J. joined them and have become quite attached to her.

It should be noted that this is the first time (since we stopped importing G-G's from the UK) that both the G-G and spouse have been immigrants.

[ 05 August 2005: Message edited by: brookmere ]


From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 05 August 2005 05:35 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ms. Jean has already made a huge cultural contribution in the last couple of days by familiarizing the blogerati with the Alt-0235 character code.
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
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posted 05 August 2005 06:04 PM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How do people use that code? I cannot for the life of me get my computer to do it.
From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 05 August 2005 06:07 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Are you using the numeric key-pad? It won't work if you use the numeric key row.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
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posted 05 August 2005 06:10 PM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No I'm using the regular keyboard numbers. I hit Alt and then the numbers and my comptuer indignantly bleets at me. I don't know what I'm doing wrong!
From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 05 August 2005 06:17 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Just to be clear; are you using the number keys on the regular key row (above the Q-W-E-R-T-Y...row) or the numeric keypad on the extreme right of the keyboard?

Or do you have a laptop without a separate, numeric keypad?


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 05 August 2005 06:30 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It won't work if you don't have the NumLock On.
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
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posted 05 August 2005 06:55 PM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ok let's see: I'm using the numbers above the qwerty row and num-lock is off now. I still can't get it to work so I'm going to give up. I'm too hot to worry about it. Thanks anyway guys!
From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 05 August 2005 07:20 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Nikita:
I'm using the numbers above the qwerty row and num-lock is off now.

No. Put NumLock on, then keep the Alt down while typing the number on the numeric keypad on the right. That's the only way it works. The character won't appear until you release the Alt key.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 05 August 2005 07:27 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Works for me fine without the numlock on. ëëëk!
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 05 August 2005 07:29 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So it does. I didn't know that.
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
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posted 05 August 2005 07:30 PM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ë! LOL I did it. *smug look* No more copy/paste for me. Whee! Many thanks.

[ 05 August 2005: Message edited by: Nikita ]


From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 05 August 2005 07:31 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
If you've got a laptop like mine, with no separate numeric keypad, but a numeric keypad superimposed over a set of keys that you have to use a shift key of some sort (on mine it's the 'Function' key) you have to first hit function to access the keypad, then press num-lock, then the alt sequence, which, after a zillion key-strokes, gives me this:

ë

Which is why I don't use the alt sequences anymore. I either switch to Canadian multilingual keyboard (to type French) or use Windows character map.

Don't give up, Nikita. You can do it! We're all rooting for you!


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 05 August 2005 07:32 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Oh, never mind.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
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posted 05 August 2005 07:39 PM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 05 August 2005 09:38 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Please post here about Michaëlle Jean. The other thread is 147 posts long.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 05 August 2005 10:52 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
If you can't remember codes and are using a Windows machine, bring up the Run box (Window key + r or on the start menu) and run charmap. It lists all the characters and lets you copy them to the clipboard. I use it for the more obscure symbols like ¢ŊΣǽœΩ۞۩☺☻♪♫
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
dramaman
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posted 06 August 2005 12:48 AM      Profile for dramaman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well.....

I WAS familiar with Jean, having seen some of her work on CBC.

I NEVER expected her to be nominated as GG.

H-O-W-E-V-E-R!!!!!!

Having seen the negativity, racism, bitterness, downright stupidity AND asshole behaviour about her on Free Dominion...

I think I like her!

I look forward to meeting her.

I look forward to what she might accomplish.

BTW - first Quebecer in over 20 years. Do the morons of this world actually think that this is supposed to be a political incentive directed at Quebec?

Small minds, IMO.


From: SW Ontario | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 06 August 2005 07:30 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I like her too, but get real. She will "accomplish" nothing in her role of GG, because there's nothing to accomplish.

Unless you consider cutting ribbons and doing walkabouts and throwing nice dinner parties "accomplishments". Actually, I WOULD consider throwing a nice dinner party an accomplishment, but I don't think that's at the level of public service "accomplishments" we're talking about.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 06 August 2005 07:34 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by dramaman:
I NEVER expected her to be nominated as GG.

That seems to be a key prerequisite for the job. Makes sense. The GG generally gets so little attention that there should be a lot of publicity when she's appointed. Joe Clark, Marc Garneau or Ed Broadbent would likely have been excellent GGs had they been chosen, but their appointment would barely qualify as news.


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clersal
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posted 07 August 2005 11:21 AM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm going to miss her.
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 07 August 2005 11:24 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why can't I just have a keyboard with all the characters I need on it?
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
steffie
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posted 07 August 2005 11:44 AM      Profile for steffie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I look forward to meeting her.

I wonder if she's a babbler? MJ, are you out there?


From: What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow / Out of this stony rubbish? | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
John K
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posted 07 August 2005 03:46 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post
I'm shocked and disappointed at the venom being directed as Ms. Jean from some quarters. I ran across a particularly vicious attack written by some Winnipeg nut-job called Charles Adler that was posted on the bourque website.

And Michelle, I think you need to study up on your constitutional history. The Governor-General is Canada's head of state and holds a very important office in a constitutional monarchy such as ours.


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N.Beltov
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posted 07 August 2005 04:15 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
John K: I'm shocked and disappointed at the venom being directed as Ms. Jean from some quarters. I ran across a particularly vicious attack written by some Winnipeg nut-job called Charles Adler that was posted on the bourque website.

Adler replaced Peter Warren as host on CJOB's morning call-in show and is now has some TV coverage on the local Global station. The Winnipeg Free Press also gives this shit bag a platform on the OpEd page.

Needless to say, I try not to listen to CJOB, watch Global, or read the goddam Winnipeg Free Press.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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posted 07 August 2005 04:53 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm watching Question Period and Jane Taber referred to the GG as an 'allophone' several times.

Say what Jane? People of Haitian origin living in Quebec are allophones?

Of course, she knows what 'allophone' means and it's just an underhanded way of belittling the appointment IMO.


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
kingblake
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posted 07 August 2005 05:10 PM      Profile for kingblake     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If Taber referred to Jean as an allophone, that would of course be wrong. But I saw (parts of) QP, and all I remember is Taber saying that the appointment "would please" allophones, and was perhaps motivated by a political desire to shore up Liberal support among Quebec allophones. Which is likely true.
From: In Regina, the land of Exotica | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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posted 07 August 2005 05:49 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You missed the end of QP then.

You're right, at the beginning it was expressed the way you say but it bothered me too. If among "immigrants" it has the effect she was insinuating it surely would be mainly among people of Haitian origin.

They do not integrate into Quebec's anglophone community hence are not allophones.

I just think these are cheap shots. The appointment is very popular with most Canadians (I think), so she can't come out and openly attack the Liberals for this.

Maybe I'm just too sensitive.


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
spatrioter
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posted 07 August 2005 06:14 PM      Profile for spatrioter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
CRTC probing 'shameful' comments about Jean
quote:
The CRTC is investigating three complaints against a Quebec City radio host who made lewd comments about Michaëlle Jean, the 48-year-old journalist who will become Canada's next governor general.

Three listeners have accused FM-93 broadcaster Sylvain Bouchard of making sexist and inappropriate comments about Jean while talking about her appointment Thursday.

"Michaëlle Jean has always been one of my fantasies," Bouchard said in French, before going on to elaborate in a graphic way.

He followed up by saying he hopes a white, heterosexual man will be named governor-general someday soon.



From: Trinity-Spadina | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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posted 07 August 2005 07:39 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Is that the same station as the one a couple of years ago where listeners actually demonstrated in favour of an announcer who got fired after some objectionable comments?

Seems there's a market for it.

I remember announcer Gilles Proulx [?] in 1990 mobilising the racists to go to the Mercier Bridge to throw stones at Mohawk women, men and children who were trying to leave Kahnawake. (The SQ obliged by holding back the convoy for hours and then just standing by while the mob threw stones)


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 08 August 2005 04:57 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Some of the comments on the CBC news website are appalling as well: http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/yourspace/new_gg.html

Yes, Gilles Proulx was one of the worst anti-Aboriginal bigots on our local radio. He had been whining about "Indian privileges" for year, and the Oka Crisis brought his bigotry to a boil. Alanis Obomsawin made an acclaimed documentary "Rocks at Whisky Trench" about the shameful stone-throwing incident...

[ 08 August 2005: Message edited by: lagatta ]


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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posted 08 August 2005 11:24 AM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The wonderful doctrine of 'balanced journalism' gives us this kind of crap.
In my days of writing for the student newspaper of my Alma Mater I was more than once accused of being biased. I once asked in anger that if I wrote a piece about the rise of Nazism in the 1930s should I interview Hitler and include his remarks verbatim?

In all fairness though, most comments were positive. I'm glad.
Hard to pick but maybe this is my favourite (criticising another poster):

quote:
Perhaps you are living in a different Canada than the rest of us

The super bigot prize belongs to Wayne Delussier | Carp, ON
His comments are too disgusting to reproduce here.


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
khrisse-boy
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posted 10 August 2005 08:12 AM      Profile for khrisse-boy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'd never heard of Michaëlle before this announcement, but certainly her qualifications seem great to me and I look forward to her moving into Rideau Hall. I'm very intrigud by this "nobody's token" thing though, and all the shit it seems to have stirred up both among prgressives who insist her race is immaterial (including herself) and the racist right-wingers who are vigorously decrying the "politically correct" appointment of a Black woman.

Mme Jean (I just don't want to try to remember the code for the whatchamucallit doesn't identify as a visible minority, and that's certainly her perogative. There's no question in my mind of her being a token... she's very well qualified, has an excellent record as a journalist, has a warm and engaging personality and will likely make an excellent GG. However, I'm a little surprise by people's reluctance to talk about her race. To me, it's even more disrespectful not to acknowledge the fact that she's Black, or the fact that appointing a Black woman born in Haiti to represent Liz Windsor is a step forward in terms of equality for racialized people, not to mention for women and for immigrants. It's not like pretending that she doesn't look "different" means that we don't all KNOW that she's Black, or that many of us don't apply our racial and cultural stereotypes based on her appearance and what we know of her background. It simply means we're not talking about it, which is very Canadian but ultimately unproductive in my view. To me, it amounts to us trying to pretend that systemic racism doesn't exist. And when we make progress in dealing with systemic racism, such as by breaking down barriers to full participation in society by minorities, I think we should acknowledge and celebrate it, not try to pretend that this has nothing to do with that.


From: Ottawa, ON | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 10 August 2005 08:30 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Exactly *what* are the qualifications to be Governor General?

The G-G's *responsibilities* are: to represent the Queen as Head of State in Canada; on the advice of the Prime Minister, the Governor General summons, prorogues and dissolves Parliament, reads the Speech from the Throne; gives Royal Assent to Bills and signs state documents; receives diplomatic representatives and performs ceremonial and social duties; Commander-in-Chief of the Canadian Forces.

It seems fair to me to match *qualifications* with *responsibilities*.

A search on the G-G pages ( http://www.gg.ca/ ) brings up the various _duties_ of the G-G, and there's an essay by John Ralston Saul that is of interest as well. Nothing on qualifications other than a school exercise that challenges students to make up the qualifications for the role of the G-G.

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
brookmere
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posted 10 August 2005 10:43 AM      Profile for brookmere     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
prgressives who insist her race is immaterial (including herself)

Well it depends on what you mean. Her race is immaterial to her being qualified for the job - a white male with the same education and career would have been equally well qualified (have we ever had one who could speak 5 languages BTW?).

But the G-G is an appointed position that is supposed to represent all Canadians, and as such it is incumbent upon the government to choose G-G's who reflect Canada's diversity. The first step was the convention to alternate between anglophones and francophones. Then there's regional diversity. Then they started appointing women. Then they started appointing people not of European ancestry. It's all part of the process. So yes, her race is material to her selection, just as her linguistic community, sex, and region are.

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: brookmere ]


From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 10 August 2005 11:34 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Quoting Jack MacAndrew's comment on rabble:
quote:
“Might I suggest Rideau Hall's next occupant will be an aboriginal male in a same-sex marriage who became famous for playing basketball in a wheelchair.” — Don Martin, writing in the Calgary Herald on the appointment of a new Governor General.

Is Don Martin a columnist, or just a racist, homophobic (and "ableist") jerk writing in to the paper?

Michaëlle Jean and Léo Kalinda have often complained about the dearth of journalists of colour at Radio-Canada, so Ms Jean would not be denying the importance of her race. I can't think of many other top reporters or news presenters - Céline Galipeau is half-Vietnamese, but could "pass" (groan) for a Québécoise with a lot of Aboriginal ancestry, very common here.

Like clersal, I will miss Michaëlle on Radio-Canada. I think she meant she always concentrated on being a journalist, not a token or a decoration.

MacAndrew's column raises another point. Michaëlle Jean is very pretty and slender - she does resemble Halle Berry a bit (though she is darker). Such looks, as well as professional qualifications, do play a part in getting a place in front of the camera - talented journalists and presenters who are less telegenic will more likely find a place on the radio waves... Is it sexist to mention that, or hypocritical not to?

I don't think her looks played a part in her choice as G-G though.

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: lagatta ]


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
kingblake
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posted 10 August 2005 11:40 AM      Profile for kingblake     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by lagatta:
Is Don Martin a columnist, or just a racist, homophobic (and "ableist") jerk writing in to the paper?
All of the above, but he's only paid to be a columnist.

From: In Regina, the land of Exotica | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sharon
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posted 10 August 2005 12:21 PM      Profile for Sharon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here's Jack MacAndrew , mentioned by lagatta.
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Johan i Kanada
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posted 10 August 2005 12:35 PM      Profile for Johan i Kanada        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by brookmere:
But the G-G is an appointed position that is supposed to represent all Canadians

No, the GG is supposed to represent the Queen.

(Btw, I am not a monarchist.)


From: Canada | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 10 August 2005 12:37 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Originally posted by brookmere:
But the G-G is an appointed position that is supposed to represent all Canadians, and as such it is incumbent upon the government to choose G-G's who reflect Canada's diversity.

The G-G is supposed to represent the QUEEN, if I understand correctly.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 10 August 2005 12:48 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Why does everyone keep saying that as if it's supposed to be meaningful? Yes, technically, the GG represents The Queen, but in reality, that's not what the GG does. If so, wouldn't we expect weekly updates from the GG on what the Queen wants to communicate to her loyal subjects? Personally, I don't know what Her Majesty has wanted to say to me for quite some time now.

It's clear that the post has evolved to become more of a real head of state, than just the constitutional mechanism it was original set up for.

I just wish we had enough momemtum in this country to make the GG head of state officially, and get rid of this silly monarchy.

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 10 August 2005 12:58 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The G-G represents the Queen in all affairs of state in Canada. When the Queen has something to cmmunicate, it will be through her G-G or through the Queeen, herself.

The Queen has approved the nomination of Ms. Jean so obviously the Queen believes Ms. Jean is qualified. As to what the qualifications for the post actually are, it would appear to be fitness to meet the duties of the Queen's Representative as I outlined in an earlier post above. Exactly how Ms. Jean and indeed most of the persons who have held the post are qualified to be Commander-in-Chief of the Canadian Forces is a mystery to me, but I'll let it slide in the interest of good manners

edited for spelling and grammar

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 10 August 2005 01:02 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The Queen has approved the nomination of Ms. Jean so obviously the Queen believes Ms. Jean is qualified.

Like the Queen had any real choice. C'mon, Boom-Boom; I'm convinced the Queen (perhaps a bit hesitantly) would have approved a cedar hedge for the position, had it been nominated.

Remember, the beauty of Canada, as well as its greatest irritant, is sometimes the disparity between what things are officially, and how they work in practice.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 10 August 2005 01:08 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

Well, I think the Queen would be a little more circumspect, but if she ain't, then it doesn't speak much for her credibility. Do away with the monarchy altogether, I say.

On the subject of the GG as Commander In Chief, it would make more sense to me to appoint an experienced military person. As for the federal Minister of Defense, which is a cabinet position, it would again make more sense to me if the PM appointed someone with military experience for that post as well.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
khrisse-boy
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posted 10 August 2005 01:49 PM      Profile for khrisse-boy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
The G-G's *responsibilities* are: to represent the Queen as Head of State in Canada; on the advice of the Prime Minister, the Governor General summons, prorogues and dissolves Parliament, reads the Speech from the Throne; gives Royal Assent to Bills and signs state documents; receives diplomatic representatives and performs ceremonial and social duties; Commander-in-Chief of the Canadian Forces.

It seems fair to me to match *qualifications* with *responsibilities*.


[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]


Finally! A job I'm qualified for!


From: Ottawa, ON | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
khrisse-boy
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posted 10 August 2005 01:58 PM      Profile for khrisse-boy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm with those who'd like to see the monarchy go as well... much as I like Liz Windsor, I don't particularly wish to bear allegiance to a foreign head of state. I was born and grew up in a Commonwealth republic and it makes way more sense to me to have a homegrown head of state rather than clinging tenaciously to our colonial past as some white Anglos here seem determined to do.

As a new citizen, and then as a public servant, I had to swear allegiance to Liz twice. It struck me as curiously anachronistic and I didn't really like doing it, but I felt I had no real choice. I'll keep my oath though, in the spirit in which I believe it was intended, i.e. allegiance to Canada, as embodied by our current head of state.


From: Ottawa, ON | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 10 August 2005 01:58 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Someone wrote somewhere that the G-G needs to be bilingual, so that likely is another qualification, although so far as I know the Queen herself isn't bilingual except maybe English/Welsh. I don't recall ever hearing the Queen speak French, although my memory ain't what it used to be. How long has it been since the Queen visited the Province of Quebec, by the way - I remember she had a difficult visit in Quebec during Trudeau's time as PM due to a protest.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 10 August 2005 02:20 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As I recall, the Queen does speak French. Nothing to do with Canada/Québec but because learning French was an important accomplishment among Brits of her class. I believe I recall hearing her speak French, and it was not bad, in the same high-pitched tone in vogue among ladies of the aristocracy of her day.

Edited to add. I checked; the Queen does indeed speak French. She delighted a Paris audience doing so, when she visited France and Germany last year.

If she were to learn all the official and other major languages of Commonwealth nations ... well, even MIchaëlle would not succeed in doing that .

There were a lot of demonstrations against the monarchy and symbols (relics) of British imperialism in Québec in the 1960s, and there was one unruly demonstration when the Queen was visiting. Doesn't she also avoid visits to Northern Ireland?

In any event, no QuébécoisE of any stripe would demonstrate against the Queen these days, except perhaps former FLQer Raymond Villeneuve and his pathetic ultranationalist crew... who more often get into fights with "no borders" anarchists...

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: lagatta ]


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 10 August 2005 02:33 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm looking forward to the official photo of Michaelle and Jean-Daniel with the queen. They must be on their way already to make the required visit to Balmoral (the lucky ducks).

I remember the photo we saw of Adrienne and her John Ralston when they made that courtesy visit. Someone wrote an inspired letter to the Grope, saying that it was obvious why the Clarkson/Ralston Sauls had been chosen: they were perfect body-doubles for the queen and Philip.

Which is so obviously true.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
James
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posted 10 August 2005 02:44 PM      Profile for James        Edit/Delete Post
There is an article and poll running on bourque about her apparently holding dualcitizenship (French, by virtue of her marriage) and whether her appointement should therefore be revoked. The ayes are running well ahead.
From: Windsor; ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
brookmere
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posted 10 August 2005 02:47 PM      Profile for brookmere     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
No, the GG is supposed to represent the Queen.

Quite right. I should have said:

the G-G is an appointed position whose holders should be representative of all Canadians.

Regarding the Queen: let's not forget that 900 or so years ago the English royals spoke only French, so Liz is just continuing the family tradition.

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: brookmere ]


From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
khrisse-boy
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posted 10 August 2005 05:09 PM      Profile for khrisse-boy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
About 300 years ago, they spoke German and their English wasn't great. I wonder how Liz' German is?
From: Ottawa, ON | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
sgm
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posted 13 August 2005 04:40 AM      Profile for sgm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Friday's National Post carried a piece by Fr. Raymond J. De Souza that criticized Michaelle Jean's appointment on the grounds that it reflected a 'narrow' definition of 'diversity' as 'only race and colour and ethnicity,' and not 'different perspectives.'

More than once I've found De Souza's Post columns annoying, but he rendered this one positively obnoxious by his calculated disingenuity and his deliberate pandering to prejudice.

First, he reassures his target audience that they are correct in thinking the CBC the preserve of an out-of-touch elite. De Souza doesn't even watch the stuff:

quote:

Not belonging to that thin sliver of the population which watches CBC documentaries and talk shows, I know nothing about Madame Jean, save for what has been reported this week.

Without even getting into how that comment entirely devalues whatever familiarity citizens (say, in Quebec) might have with Jean apart from her CBC hosting duties, I'll just emphasize here that De Souza's smug dismissal of the CBC as a network he wouldn't dirty his eyeballs to watch is also a clear admission that he 'know[s] nothing about Madame Jean.'

Not that this admitted lack of knowledge of Jean prevents De Souza from pigeon-holing her later in the same article. No, sir. He crams her right into the same slot in which he's placed her predecessor:

quote:

So we have two women who work for the same company, share the same general outlook of the CBC, and, for good measure, are both married to generally leftish intellectuals. There is no reason why someone like that shouldn't be governor-general. But it is a little much to have two back-to-back and hail it as a move toward diversity. Replacing a Toronto-based CBC broadcaster with a Montreal-based one hardly qualifies.

Reading that paragraph, you can practically hear the checkmarks going into the boxes. Only, that scratching noise isn't loud enough to drown out the columnist's contradictions.

How can someone who claims to know 'nothing' of Michaelle Jean (having, by his own admission, never seen her on air, and never learned about her except at second- or third-hand in the press) pronounce with such authority on her 'outlook,' calling it the 'same general outlook of the CBC,' as Adrienne Clarkson shares?

I leave aside the fact that De Souza doesn't define or describe that 'outlook,' the one reflected in the programming of the network whose documentaries and talk shows he rarely watches. I leave it aside because, for De Souza and his intended audience, no description is necessary: anti-CBC prejudice will do the heavy lifting for him.

I also leave it aside so I can come to what I think of as the most deceitful part of De Souza's article. First, De Souza claims (without any serious evidence) that Jean's apppointment shows that diversity's meaning has been narrowed to superficial characteristics. So he writes:

quote:

But as [Jean's] appointment indicates, diversity is narrowly defined. Madame Jean is a black Haitian. Madame Clarkson is Hong Kong Chinese.
Romeo LeBlanc is an Acadian. Diversity marches on, but is there any appreciable difference in how any of them think? The irony is that diversity now means only race and colour and ethnicity.

For those of us who work in the university environment, this has long been evident. Diversity mandates have been in place for almost two decades now, with a serious--and successful--effort to include more women and visible minorities in the faculty and amongst the students. But it would be hard to find any environment in which thinking is more uniform than on an elite unversity campus.


First off, I'm willing to agree with Fr. De Souza that it would indeed be hard to beat elite university campuses for uniformity of thinking, but only if he'll agree that we exclude the editorial pages of the National Post and the Conservative Party Caucus from consideration.

Second, I wish to address Fr. De Souza's implicit claim to speak for 'those of us who work in the university environment' on the topic of 'diversity.'

As far as I can make out, De Souza's 'work' experience 'in a university environment' isn't anything like the time frame implied by the phrase 'long been evident,' let alone the 'two decades' he slips into the second sentence of that paragraph.

According to this page, De Souza was a third-year undergraduate at Queen's in 1991/92. From Queen's he went to Cambridge, and thence to Santa Croce University in Rome to get a License in Sacred Theology (what was their 'diversity' policy, do you think?). Ordained a priest in 2002, he only became a Catholic chaplain at Queen's two or three years ago. And yet he clearly wants his readers to believe he speaks with the authority of long experience as one who 'works in a university environment.'

Of course, De Souza's intended audience will uncritically accept what he's saying. After all, he's pandering to their prejudices.

Still, as someone who's worked in university environments (including the one De Souza now calls home) slightly longer than the good Father, I'll say that one thing we're often concerned about--even more than diversity, sometimes--is providing credible evidence for the claims we make.

Not that such concerns should trouble De Souza as he writes to his intended audience. He's got stereotypes and prejudices to do his work for him.

[ 13 August 2005: Message edited by: sgm ]


From: I have welcomed the dawn from the fields of Saskatchewan | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 13 August 2005 08:36 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Good review, sgm, so thorough that you have saved me the trouble of reading de Souza himself.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 13 August 2005 11:30 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Jesus Christ. The G&M today is running a poll on whether the GG-designate and her husband should reveal how they voted in the 1995 Referendum. Does the G&M not understand democracy, that how a person votes in secret is their business and no one elses? Fuck. We should all email the G&M in protest.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
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posted 13 August 2005 11:43 AM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I just voted NO, unfortunately the didn't have the "Mind your own fucking business" button.

But the Yes side was at 67%! What the hell are people thinking?

G&M website


From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 13 August 2005 12:03 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Originally posted by Nikita:
But the Yes side was at 67%! What the hell are people thinking?

Those are likely the same people who voted for Campbell, Klein, Lord, and Harper. I'd guess the more liberal bunch - who don't read the G&M anyway - are probably just getting out of bed and haven't seen the poll yet.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
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posted 13 August 2005 12:15 PM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Liberal decadence. Pfft.
From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 13 August 2005 05:48 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This poll has been up for a while, and I note the G&M has software that prevents voting more than once per email address. The results at almost 5 pm are, for me, even more discouraging than the results from this morning (I voted no). Still, it's only 20,000+ votes, not a very large number.


Do you believe incoming Governor-General Michaëlle Jean and her husband should reveal how they voted in the 1995 Quebec referendum?


Yes 15038 votes (73 %)

No 5603 votes (27 %)

Total Votes: 20641


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
remowilliams
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posted 13 August 2005 09:05 PM      Profile for remowilliams        Edit/Delete Post
20,000 plus is a pretty significant number. The results show that most Canadians have no understanding of democracy and democratic freedoms.
Ballots are secret for a reason. No person including politicians and political appointees, should be required to reveal their ballot for any reason.
This is a scary poll as the Globe and Mail attracts a mainstream readership.
People can be quite dense

From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 13 August 2005 09:19 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It could also show that a lot of peole have been listening to hateful radio jocks and may have caught the comments of Lord, Campbell and Klein before PMPM called these guys up and asked them to knock it off.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
James
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posted 13 August 2005 09:24 PM      Profile for James        Edit/Delete Post
My "gut" says this thing, or these things cumulatively have legs and/or repercussions. The alleged seperatist=terrorist links, the dual citizenship, the ? re: Oct. '95 vote. These things string together, and they touch many hot-buttons. P.M. the P.M. will regret this choice, IMO.
From: Windsor; ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 13 August 2005 09:26 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
I'm not that concerned about it. A lot of Canadians think a purist "Canada above all else" is an essential prerequisite for the Governor General. I'm convinced that if Michaelle Jean or her husband were really all that committed to Québec independence and the destruction of Canada, she would never have accepted this position....Unless she's planning on turning, surprisingly and Tranformer-like, into a Canada-destroying machine...Mecha-GG...Obliterates Canada like it's a small Japanese city...Bwahahaha!

...but, that does sound kind of stupid, no? I've seen sovereigntists/separatists vacillate between federalism and Québec sovereignty/independence and I see it as a normal thing. I myself voted PQ in the last election, not because I'm a big separatist, but because I think the PQ is a better government for Quebecers. I would have voted "no" in a referendum, but I wasn't around during the last one.

I can't help but think a lot of this whining about the appointment of Jean is to express, on the part of a lot of Canadians, their anger at a country that remains divided, and anger at a big part of it that doesn't love the country in exactly the same way. Well, that's the way it is, no? We remain divided because we like being divided on issues that try to define a common national identity.

[ 13 August 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 13 August 2005 11:32 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm convinced that if Michaelle Jean or her husband were really all that committed to Québec independence and the destruction of Canada, she would never have accepted this position....Unless she's planning on turning, surprisingly and Tranformer-like, into a Canada-destroying machine...Mecha-GG...Obliterates Canada like it's a small Japanese city...Bwahahaha!

Well, exactly. Does anyone suppose she accepted the job as part of a Cunning Plan?

Perhaps Don Martin supposes PM the PM appointed her as part of a Cunning Plan.

quote:
Well, that's the way it is, no? We remain divided because we like being divided on issues that try to define a common national identity.

I'm no nationalist, but one thing I like about Canada is that certain questions remain open. Some find this wearisome, but to me, it's more fun this way. Trudeau was right; politics is a game. A serious game to be sure, but a game regardlessly.

quote:
Here's Jack MacAndrew, mentioned by lagatta.

Speaking of Cunning Plans, I nearly had an infarction reading this gentleman's name. I confused it at first with that of Jock V. Andrew, writer of the once-infamous, but now mercifully forgotten Bilingual Today, French Tomorrow. Sorry about that, Jack!


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 14 August 2005 01:03 AM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Andrew Scheer had some questions for the Prime Minister:

quote:
I have a few quick questions for anyone who thinks that Michaelle Jean is a good choice to be our next GG.

1) What are her qualifications? What experience does she have that would assist her to carry out her duties as our head of state, including the potential to be a referee in a minority government situation?

2) Does it bother you that she is a dual citizen (France and Canada)? Would it bother you if instead of French citizenship, she held U.S. citizenship?

3) It is being reported that her husband is quite chummy with some FLQers belonging to the same group that killed Pierre Laporte. If her husband was quite friendly with Al-Queda terrorists, would that be alright?


I hope Nystrom wins the next election.

Edited to add: Even Stephen Harper showed decency on this one:

quote:
I would like to congratulate Mme. Jean on her appointment as Queen Elizabeth’s representative in Canada. Mme. Jean’s success in her career serves as a great example to many Canadians. I know Mme. Jean will serve Canada in a dignified, vice-regal fashion.

Edited to add again: Some of the comments about her appointment were disgusting. To those people screaming about how "this isn't the Canada I recognise," I don't want to be Canadian if "Canadian" means a closed white-bred society that allows no one in.

[ 14 August 2005: Message edited by: Aristotleded24 ]

[ 14 August 2005: Message edited by: Aristotleded24 ]


From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
ceti
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posted 14 August 2005 02:39 PM      Profile for ceti     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree.

A secret ballot is a secret ballot, it's no one else's business except your own.

And I think it's great to have independent minded people take up the GG position, especially those who have straddled one of the fundamental lines of the Canadian political identity. Michaelle Jean also breathes new life into the position that has cleverly been redefined as representing our future as opposed to our past.


From: various musings before the revolution | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sharon
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posted 14 August 2005 07:21 PM      Profile for Sharon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Speaking of Cunning Plans, I nearly had an infarction reading this gentleman's name. I confused it at first with that of Jock V. Andrew, writer of the once-infamous, but now mercifully forgotten Bilingual Today, French Tomorrow. Sorry about that, Jack!

Oh,'lance! I accept your apology on Jack's behalf. We publish his work quite regularly on rabble.ca and he always gets lots of readers. He sends his work to me with the subject line "rant!" and I'm always delighted to see it.

Meanwhile, I was checking this thread because of The Globe and Mail online poll which I see has already been noted here. No matter what one may think of The Globe, I am shocked at the result so far. The readers who take part in the polls are often more thoughtful and progressive.


From: Halifax, Nova Scotia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
brookmere
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posted 14 August 2005 09:59 PM      Profile for brookmere     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As people like Lysane Gagnon have written, being a rock-ribbed, fire-breathing federalist in francophone Quebec will lose you a lot of friends. Now that's no problem for an independently wealthy person like Pierre Trudeau, or a professional Liberal politician like Chretien, but it certainly is for someone who works in the media.

In my opinion appointing as G-G someone who carries a hint of ambiguity on this issue is a sign of respect for Quebeckers who behave in the same way themselves, for the sake of social cohesion.


From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
canadianpatriot
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posted 14 August 2005 11:47 PM      Profile for canadianpatriot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think she should renouce her Haitian and French Citizenship.

What happend to the good old days with british lords at the post.


From: National Capital | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Screaming Lord Byron
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posted 14 August 2005 11:49 PM      Profile for Screaming Lord Byron     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, I offered, but I never got the call.
Bastards.

From: Calgary | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
brookmere
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posted 15 August 2005 08:05 AM      Profile for brookmere     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I understand that Jean and her family had their citizenship revoked by the Haitian government when they fled the country.

BTW, Adrienne Clarkson would probably be considered a Chinese citizen by the Chinese goverment since she was born in Hong Kong, and I don't recall her ever disavowing it. Funny nobody has brought this up.


From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 15 August 2005 09:32 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Jack weighs in:

But NDP Leader Jack Layton, who was touring in British Columbia yesterday, said the position is not political. "What we don't want to start having is governors-general having to issue manifestoes on their political positions on various questions.

"That would be precisely the opposite direction from democratic reform."

Mr. Layton said Ms. Jean is an "accomplished individual in our society" and he is satisfied with her appointment.

http://tinyurl.com/7kn3t


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 15 August 2005 09:41 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Good statement from Jack -- I agree. The head of state is supposed to be above politics in a democracy, and it will be useful and educational if Jack keeps making that point.

This whole fuss seems so ... silly ... to me. Oh, right: it's August.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 15 August 2005 11:14 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The August doldrums coupled with a CBC lockout and my regular computer still down - aaaarrrrgggghhhh! this is going to be a tough month here.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sombrero Jack
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posted 15 August 2005 04:39 PM      Profile for Sombrero Jack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
While no fan of Andrew Scheer's, this point he raised bears some discussion:
quote:
Would it bother you if instead of French citizenship, she held U.S. citizenship?
Not to be trollish (famous last words, I know), but I suspect that there are many babblers who would be quite perturbed by such a scenario. I can imagine howls of "deep integration" echoing across the Internets.

That said, we'd never see such an appointment, because the Liberals are far too canny to do so. While they will pander to the U.S., the natural governing party wouldn't choose to rile the anti-Americanism that serves as a key component of (English) Canada's self-image as nurtured by the Liberals themselves. As well, an American citizen swearing an oath of loyalty to the Queen wouldn't go over well in the U.S., even as a necessary step to take over as (figure)head of state of their neighbour and largest trading partner.

Of course, all of this discussion hedges on the ridiculous, as the G-G isn't much more than a ribbon-cutter nowadays. Yes, I'm aware of the role they could be called on to play in sorting out the chaos of a minority Parliament, but it would be the constitutional lawyers behind the scenes doing the actual heavy lifting in that case.


From: PEI | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 15 August 2005 04:43 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Not to be trollish (famous last words, I know), but I suspect that there are many babblers who would be quite perturbed by such a scenario. I can imagine howls of "deep integration" echoing across the Internets.

What if it were Judy Rebick? I don't know if she still has her American citizenship, but if she, did, would I mind? There are plenty of Americans who've live here a long time and who've contributed substanstially to the society they live in. There are, in fact, loads of them.

It all depends on who it is. Diane Francis? Jeffery Simpson? Carol Shields (now deceased; she would have been an excellent choice)? Margaret...Wente?

[ 15 August 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
ceti
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posted 16 August 2005 01:54 PM      Profile for ceti     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The debate in Canada around nationality echoes what's going on in Quebec, where barely camouflaged racism is coming out into the open.

In Quebec, the debate is quite different. Basically the hardline sovereignists are crying bloody murder over Jean's nomination, and are using the trope of her former sympathies to attack her relentlessly as being a traitor. Basically, they are afraid that her nomination, supported by 89% of Quebecers would hurt the sovereignist cause by buttressing the flagging federalist side.

However, this is beginning to backfire severely though, as prominent members of the Haitian community are warning of an explosion on par with the Richard riots, if Jean is forced to quit. The hardliners thus threaten to undo all the work the PQ and Bloc have done to woo minorities, and especially with Haitians who have been amongst the most sympathetic to Quebec sovereignty.


From: various musings before the revolution | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 16 August 2005 03:54 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I heard on a local Radio-Canada show (not locked-out) that several prominent Haitian community spokespersons are furious about the to-do about Michaëlle Jean and saying a "white" person would never have been subjected to such scrutiny.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 16 August 2005 11:36 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ok Ms. Jean becomes GG (and all the expensive wining and dining and travel perks that come with it)and then when the gig ends, she becomes a Quebec separtist (assuming she was one in the beginning)again?

Paul Martin is to blame big time for this poor
choice of GG. He wanted to score political points in Quebec and his poor judgement is blowing up in his face. Haven't the Liberals learned anything from the sponsorship scandal in Quebec? Appeasing Quebec is what has gotten many successive Liberal governments in trouble. Trying to 'buy off' Quebec does not work. I am disgusted if Ms Jean was a separatist and now wants to be GG because of the fabulous perks. Any separatist will pretend to be a committed Canadian just for those Godamn travelling perks$$$ And when the wind blows in another direction will she become a separatist again?
Have Canadians no pride and self respect at allowing this to happen?

Paul Martin is displaying poor judgement and proves what a weak leader with no real vision he really displays.
This whole episode is embarrassing and could have been avoided. Even though this bickering and fighting is exactly what the separtists wanted us to do.

Paul Martin should renounce his decision and pick someone from Alberta.
Wasn't Paul Martin the PM who would do something about western alienation? Nah just continue chasing votes in Quebec while the rest of the country and especially the west gets ignored. It's the Liberal mantra.

[ 16 August 2005: Message edited by: mary123 ]


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
deBeauxOs
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posted 17 August 2005 12:06 AM      Profile for deBeauxOs     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mary123:Ok Ms. Jean becomes GG (and all the expensive wining and dining and travel perks that come with it)and then when the gig ends, she becomes a Quebec separtist (assuming she was one in the beginning)again?
Well, maybe the job sounds like a gravy boat to you but how would you like to be subjected to the public scrutiny that the current GG-in-waiting is being subjected to? Anyone who has taken on those responsibilities has to really consider the impact upon themselves and their family.

A few years ago a friend got a job (in the private sector) that required weekly travel across Canada. She stayed in nice hotels and enjoyed a generous expense account but she had to be pleasant and gracious and on top of the job 24/7. It was extremely stressful and fatiguing. She quit after four years, in spite of the good salary and perks.


From: missing in action | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 17 August 2005 12:14 AM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Most people will never get to enjoy the perks that a GG does. Don't expect me to feel sorry for the associated stress that may come with it.

Maybe they can see a $100/hour shrink who will help them out a little yes? Maybe try some pricey accupuncture and have a daily massage to alleviate all that nasty stress. That might take the stress away. Most people would lOooove to live like a celebrity and I expect Ms. Jean would also.

From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
deBeauxOs
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posted 17 August 2005 01:11 AM      Profile for deBeauxOs     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mary123:
Most people will never get to enjoy the perks that a GG does. Don't expect me to feel sorry for the associated stress that may come with it. ... Most people would lOooove to live like a celebrity and I expect Ms. Jean would also.
First, Michaële Jean is already famous and respected in her own right and she does not need the GG position for that.

The CEOs of private sector companies enjoy all those perks and more that you claim "most" people would LOOOOOve to have - do you include yourself in that broad statement? - yet rarely have to be accountable to anyone for their lavish lifestyle. But the Auditor General will ensure that every penny of the GG's budget is scrutinized.


From: missing in action | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 17 August 2005 03:56 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
When Michaëlle Jean's name was first announced, CBC did an on-the-street survey that found virtually no one outside of Quebec had ever heard of her. Kind of ironic given that she hosts a supposedly popular CBC show. As for me, I didn't recognise her name right away, but when I saw her photo, then I recognised her from 'The Passionate Eye'.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
lucas
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posted 17 August 2005 10:17 AM      Profile for lucas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In all fairness, it is a 'public' position and as such will be, and rightly so, subjected to public scrutiny. While I have no idea of her response to these allegations, she should have seen it coming. Beyond the 'perks' (and I am unsure if the perks when offset by the public scrutiny are net positive or not) I am unsure why she would WANT this position if it is part of a history and nation of which she wants no part.

That said, I know I made some pretty stupid comments to my buddies on a whole laundry list of topics back in those first few years of University. (Some may argue I continue to make stupid comments). Perhaps Jean regrets having said her pro-separatist comments. In any event, some clarity might just move this issue to the back-burner where it belongs.

[ 17 August 2005: Message edited by: lucas ]


From: Turner Valley | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
brookmere
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posted 18 August 2005 06:21 AM      Profile for brookmere     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I heard on a local Radio-Canada show (not locked-out) that several prominent Haitian community spokespersons are furious about the to-do about Michaëlle Jean and saying a "white" person would never have been subjected to such scrutiny.

Bingo.

Now is Martin brilliant, or what?

How could anyone do a better job of exposing Quebec nationalism's "pure laine" roots by serving up a "black sheep" as G-G?

Those guys are blood brothers of the rednecks in Alberta.


From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 18 August 2005 10:24 AM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Dany Laferriere who is the Haitien making those statements, is one of the separatists toasting independance in that documentary.


quote:
In the film, Jean is seen with several sovereigntist hardliners, including poet Gerald Godin -- a co-founder of Rassemblment pour l'independence nationale and Parti Quebecois cabinet minister, Yves Prefontaine, former FLQ member Pierre Vallieres, novelist Dany Laferriere, Andree Ferretti and poet Paul Chamberland, according to Le Quebecois.

Things are not all they seem in this story.
So a sovereigntist hardliner Dany Laferriere defending a supposed non sovereigntist for the job as Canada's de facto Head of State
representing the Queen. When all else fails play the race card.

Paul Martin and the PMO bringing Canadians together since oh never.


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sara Mayo
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posted 18 August 2005 10:46 AM      Profile for Sara Mayo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mary, CTV is wrong when they classify Dany as a "seperatist hardliner". I have never heard Dany speak one word for or against Quebec seperation. Lagatta probably know better than me, but he certainly has never been publicly identified as a sovereigntist. If he was, teh PQ and the Bloc woul d have long ago tried to claim him as their own.

You'll see francophone media describe the same set of people, and for most of of the other people they describe their role in the sovereigntist movement, but for Dany they simply say "novelist".

quote:
le défunt poète Gérald Godin, un cofondateur du Rassemblement pour l'indépendance nationale (RIN), Yves Préfontaine, l'ex-felquiste Pierre Vallières, le romancier Dany Laferrière, la militante souverainiste Andrée Ferretti et le poète indépendantiste Paul Chamberland.
Le Devoir

Also, the toast in the film is ambigous. The conversation was about Martinique so some say they were toasting Martinique's independence, not Quebec's.

[ 18 August 2005: Message edited by: Sara Mayo ]

[ 18 August 2005: Message edited by: Sara Mayo ]


From: "Highways are monuments to inequality" - Enrique Penalosa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 18 August 2005 05:39 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ok so all these separatist hardliners are at a bar yet now only 'some' of them are really separatist hardliners. The plot thickens.

Ms. Jean does not really believe in the GG position. But it is politically opportune and useful to her (not to mention the $19,000,000/year budget) to advance her agenda of putting Haiti, violence against women and child poverty at the forefront of issues important to her.

The source is a young journalist, Patrick Boucher, with colleagues at Radio Canada who are close friends with Ms. Jean.

quote:
Faire un stage à Radio-Canada a plusieurs avantages. Surtout quand certains de vos collègues sont des amis intimes de la Gouverneure Générale du Canada, dans ce cas-ci la nouvelle venue Michaëlle Jean. Et d'ailleurs, cela m'a permis d'apprendre plusieurs trucs intéressants.

Selon mes sources bien informées, qui tous une une très grande admiration pour Michaëlle, celle-ci aurait des opinions politiques très tranchées. Notamment, elle aurait souvent manifesté son nationalisme québécois, son penchant en faveur de la souveraineté du Québec et son opposition à cette institution vétuste qu'est la représentation de la Reine d'Angleterre au Canada.

Pourquoi alors accepter ce poste? Selon mes sources, à nouveau, c'est tout simplement parce que Michaëlle a plusieurs causes qui lui tiennent à coeur : la pauvreté, notamment chez les enfants, la violence faite aux femmes, la situation en Haïti, etc. Et comme elle a le coeur gros comme une baleine, elle croit que d'occuper ce poste sera une excellente façon de faire avancer ces causes et de faire évoluer le gouvernement vers cette direction. Elle aurait tout de même hésité très longtemps avant d'accepter l'offre de Paul Martin. Une chose est sûre, c'est qu'il y a unanimité chez ses amis(es) avec qui je travaille pour dire que Michaëlle est une femme extrêmement cultivée, intelligente, sensible et généreuse.


Et si la Gouverneure Générale était nationaliste québécoise...?


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 18 August 2005 06:32 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So this fellow takes a training course at CBC and this makes him an expert on Jean's character, agenda, and priorities? What kind of course do they give at CBC these days? Anybody else take the "Knowing the mind of Michelle Jean 101" CBC course?

quote:
In all fairness, it is a 'public' position and as such will be, and rightly so, subjected to public scrutiny. While I have no idea of her response to these allegations, she should have seen it coming. Beyond the 'perks' (and I am unsure if the perks when offset by the public scrutiny are net positive or not) I am unsure why she would WANT this position if it is part of a history and nation of which she wants no part.

The public has every right to subject public figures to scrutiny ... but public figures do not have to respond to every such scrutiny, especially scrutinies that have so little foundation and relevance.

She can't have the job because she toasted to what could be construed, if you squint real hard, as a sovereignist toast; She can't have the job because she also has French citizenry; She can't have the job because she might have an agenda of keeping Canadians informed about violence against children and women and poverty; She can't have the job because this is just pandering to Quebec; Why do we have to pick another immigrant; why do we have to pick another woman; She only got the post because she's a visible minority; She's not famous enough; she's another Liberal CBC appointment; Her husband is French; Her husband did a documentary that showed sovereignist to be less than evil scum; ... have I missed any of the "popular" rants against Jean?


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 18 August 2005 06:41 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, the rant you missed is that Mary hates Quebecers. It's obvious in practically every comment she posts that has anything to do with the province. It has been always thus.

Mention poutine and the hair on the back of her neck stands up.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 18 August 2005 07:37 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hinterland you also have alot of time on your hands to follow my every post on this thread.

You do not embarrass me either.

Your schtick is to embarrass and bully others when they don't conform to your viewpoints. Funny that when I criticize George Bush, Stephen Harper, the Conservatives, and defend Same Sex Marriage and defend the NDP there is not a peep out of you. Nada. You are very selective in your judgements and criticisms of others.

I don't hate Quebec although you seem to think so because I do criticize it. Aha I see criticizing Quebec is on your "Though Shalt Not" list. And who made you Moses exactly?


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 18 August 2005 09:56 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Ah, shut, up, Mary. You're incessant dyspepsia is wearying.

quote:
Funny that when I criticize George Bush, Stephen Harper, the Conservatives, and defend Same Sex Marriage and defend the NDP there is not a peep out of you. Nada. You are very selective in your judgements and criticisms of others.

That's because...duh...I don't disagree with all of that. Geez, this isn't rocket science...


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 18 August 2005 10:56 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Colby Cosh makes some good points.

quote:
Since our law overtly contemplates the peaceful democratic dissolution of Confederation as a future possibility, I do not believe we are in a position to object to the nomination of a separatist or ex-separatist to the office of Governor-General on those grounds alone. (An FLQ supporter is another thing altogether, and I think the new "prince consort", as the separatist media has been calling Jean-Daniel Lafond, still needs to come clean about his past positions with respect to revolutionary violence.) But I also don't take Mme. Jean's brief, formal statement of loyalty to Canada very seriously. Yes, yes, you love Canada and you love Quebec--don't we all; they're both so adorable. The question is whether you envision one being a part of the other a century from now. The press has seized upon Mme. Jean's ambiguous quote that "independence isn't given, it's taken", and paid less attention to the context of the infamous dinner--a context encapsulated in the toast "C'est fini les petits peuples!" It seems clear enough that Jean and Lafond share an appreciation, perhaps grudging, for Canadian institutions as currently constituted. It also seems pretty clear that, at one time at least, they were crass leftist hipsters with a serious boner for Frantz Fanon.

Perhaps merely sitting at a table and tipping back plonk with a former leader of the FLQ should be enough to disqualify Mme. Jean from the viceroyalty. It may be worth noting, though, that when Pierre Vallières brought out the old chestnut about Quebeckers being les Nègres blancs d'Amérique, she parried with a silencing witticism: et les Nègres blancs québécois ont aussi leurs Nègres noirs, de plus en plus. Well put--and reminiscent, too, of Orwell's observation that when you embrace the nationalistic aspirations of people B oppressed by people A, you immediately start hearing from people C, who are routinely kicked around by B and regard A as their protectors. (Hey, welcome to Canada!) All I can think about with regard to Mme. Jean, I find, is what fun it would be to ferret out her thoughts about the future of Quebec at length. But nobody's going to be given that opportunity as long as she insists on clinging to the hope of obtaining the best job in the country. She became an ex-intellectual the minute she agreed to it.



From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 18 August 2005 11:07 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
Ah, shut, up, Mary. You're incessant dyspepsia is wearying.

Your bullying and constant stalking me on this thread is tedious. And wearying.

[ 18 August 2005: Message edited by: mary123 ]


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 18 August 2005 11:45 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Stalking? Blow me, Mary.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 18 August 2005 11:49 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
Stalking? Blow me, Mary.

I didn't really think you'd be into that.


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 18 August 2005 11:51 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
Stalking? Blow me, Mary.

It figures you would resort to sexist and demeaning language as a refuge.

You're an embarrassment to all Canadians, especially women!


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 18 August 2005 11:54 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
You think that's funny, don't you, Heywood? I rarely interact with you, but when it happens, it has to do with something regarding my sexuality.

You are a fucking homophobe, Heywood. The only people you get into snits with are RB, Heph...and apparently, now me. Look, stay the fuck away from me, from now on.

And you Mary...Your snippy little hatred of Quebecers escapes no one, least of all me. If you can't keep your mouth from spewing anti-Quebec crap, then rest assured, I'll call you on it. If you want to whine about that being bullying and stalking, then whine away.

[ 18 August 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 18 August 2005 11:59 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Dude, if I didn't like you I wouldn't have said a word.
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 19 August 2005 12:00 AM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hinterland I'll call you on your misogynistic crap for all to see here. You actually said "Blow me". How much more derogatory and misogynistic can you get? You are a hypocrite basically.

You can shit on others but others have no recourse against you? Shame on you and your misogyny.


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 19 August 2005 12:03 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Suck my cock, Mary.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cam_eron_a
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posted 19 August 2005 12:06 AM      Profile for Cam_eron_a     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That's an image to leave hanging.
From: riverside | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 19 August 2005 12:06 AM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
Suck my cock, Mary.

You are a misogynist. Shame on you.


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 19 August 2005 12:07 AM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Nah, he asks everyone to do that.
From: --> . <-- | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 19 August 2005 12:11 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post

From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 19 August 2005 12:20 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Roger Gallaway is shooting his mouth off once again:
quote:
Gallaway, who admits he doesn't know anything . . .

Such unexpected honesty.

From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 19 August 2005 12:22 AM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
File this under: OH the irony.

These 2 examples of Hinterland's sexist and misognyistic language:
"Stalking? Blow me, Mary"
"Suck my cock, Mary"
namely verbal violence against women will be one of the projects that Governor General Michaelle Jean will be working towards in her term. Nice going big shooter Hinterland. Obviously Ms. Jean needs to start right here at rabble.


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 19 August 2005 12:25 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
Verbal violence? Like calling you a brainless twit?

Verbal violence. All that means is that abysmal twits like Mary seem to think they have an out.

Hey, Mary. I could be the nicest person on Earth to you, and you'd still be brainless. Sad but true.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 19 August 2005 12:30 AM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
Verbal violence? Like calling you a brainless twit?

Verbal violence. All that means is that abysmal twits like Mary seem to think they have an out.

Hey, Mary. I could be the nicest person on Earth to you, and you'd still be brainless. Sad but true.


You are a sexist misogynist and I am calling you on it.


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 19 August 2005 12:35 AM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
And does that make you any smarter, bécasse?
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 19 August 2005 02:09 AM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
And does that make you any smarter, bécasse?

From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 19 August 2005 02:14 AM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wow...Fighting over the GG?

YOU MONARCHISTS!


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
cco
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posted 19 August 2005 11:20 AM      Profile for cco     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Pierre Poilievre's website actually encourages people to contact the Queen over this appointment.
From: Montréal | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 19 August 2005 12:26 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by cco:
Pierre Poilievre's website actually encourages people to contact the Queen over this appointment.

Yeah, that's going to work about as well as the campaign for her to deny royal assent to C-38.

The difference between Conservatives and Republicans: Both groups are overwhelmingly made up of virulent hate-filled bigots. But Conservatives are also mind-bogglingly stupid and ineffectual.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 19 August 2005 12:37 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Conservative M.P. Pierre Poilievre said today that if the Prime Minister cannot extract a public statement from Rideau Hall's newest residents denying terrorist links and separatist loyalties, he should reverse the their appointment.

That's one I hadn't heard yet ... now our GG is in league with terrorists.

I hope all the progressives who think that Jean needs to be hauled in front of the public in chains and made to either swear an oath that she spits on Quebec and their damn separatists, or steps down, understand the creepy bunch of bassackward hate filled morons that you're siding with.


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 19 August 2005 12:38 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
I really wish the Queen would just come out and say:

Listen, you stupid provincials. I have abolutely no time for anymore of these irritants. If you don't shut it, I'll have you all put in the Tower. I mean it, piss off!

Your Loving Sovereign,
Elizabeth R.

What and embarrassment these Cons are to the party. It's one thing to discuss and criticise decisions; it's another to ask the Queen to do something about it.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
dano
rabble-rouser
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posted 19 August 2005 01:12 PM      Profile for dano     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I found it ridiculus that they ask her to say anything in the first... The fact that she actually did it is decent I guess.


But now its just getting really ridiculus.

[ 19 August 2005: Message edited by: dano ]


From: Gatineau, Qc | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
mary123
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6125

posted 19 August 2005 02:52 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Royal Canadian Legion is none too pleased about this whole episode:

quote:
While accepted by many, a brief statement issued this week by Jean professing the vice regal couple's commitment to Canada was rejected yesterday by the Royal Canadian Legion and a member of the National Assembly as being insufficient.

"The missing word for us is loyalty. Our members are calling upon Ms. Jean and her husband to affirm their opposition to separatism and the separatists, to pledge their loyalty to a united Canada," said Mary Ann Burdett, dominion president of the Royal Canadian Legion.


I agree with the legion.


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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Babbler # 888

posted 19 August 2005 03:40 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm bothered by the loyalty oath thing, actually.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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Babbler # 4169

posted 19 August 2005 03:50 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm not sure what a loyalty oath to a "United" Canada actually means?

There are people in Canada with perfectly legal and legitimate political opinions regarding the "unity" of Canada. How does this "oath" help the GG perform her duties as the Queens representative of Canada? If Canada decides that some area of Canada needs to be somehow "independent" (such as Quebec, Alberta, Toronto city state, Hans Rock, Aboriginal nations, etc. then the Queens representative better be able and willing to do their duty in "un-uniting" whatever Canadians tell him/her they have decided to "un-unite".

I'm all for a united Canada, but if the democratic process determines some other course of action, then the functionaries of the democratic system better get with the program.


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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Babbler # 2440

posted 19 August 2005 07:01 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by cco:
Pierre Poilievre's website actually encourages people to contact the Queen over this appointment.

Would that be the same Pierre Poilievre who's suspected of having been a card-carrying member of the Alberta Separation Party while serving as Ezra Levant's communication director?

Hat-tip to Mike at Rational Reasons.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 19 August 2005 07:11 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I was truly born into the wrong universe. In the universe I should have been born into, Monarchy and Monarchial trappings would be terms used in the pejorative, and the term cocksucker would be reserved to describe only the finest things in life.
From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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Babbler # 2

posted 19 August 2005 09:32 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
Suck my cock, Mary.

Okay, seriously, Hinterland. No one deserves that. You're on a week long time out.

This thread is tooo long.


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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