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Author Topic: SALMON
Briguy
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posted 09 January 2004 09:01 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's only safe to eat farmed salmon once a month, say researchers...

Farmed salmon contain 10 times the toxins (PCBs and such) as their wild counterparts. Damn it! Salmon steaks are my 'treat' food, bought on grocery night and grilled with my own Cajun style spice mix. Skin and all. Now I'll have to find out if the salmon I buy comes from a farm or the wild. Fat chance that the wage slave behind the counter at Sobey's will know.

quote:
People should not consume more than a few meals of farm salmon every month, warn the researchers, who looked at hundreds of fish from around the world.

The levels of toxins found in farmed salmon are about 10 times higher than in species from the wild, according to the scientists who worked on the study. Although salmon raised in northern Europe is ranked as the most dangerous, given the global nature of the industry they said the warning is universal.

Federal officials say the amount of contaminants, such as pesticides and PCBs, in Canadian salmon is not dangerous. But the scientists say the thresholds have been set too low.

"These levels are sufficiently high in farmed salmon that unlimited consumption of these salmon in unwise," says David Carpenter, a professor of environmental health and toxicology at the University of Albany in New York.



From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 09 January 2004 09:25 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, I love salmon too (so does Renzo) and had been eating oily fish to prevent cardiac problems. This effects me a lot more than beef could, as I rarely eat red meat. It is hard to find wild salmon.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 09 January 2004 09:30 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A critic of this study says in this a.m.'s Grope and Flail that the study was done on raw fish, and that if you first skin and then grill the fish, you will be eliminating most of the toxins.

In my most unscientific way, I am going to run with that advice. Because I want to.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lima Bean
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posted 09 January 2004 10:29 AM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Does anybody have any idea if sushi salmon is wild or farmed? It just happens to be one of my favourite fishies to eat raw. Eek!
From: s | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pogo
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posted 09 January 2004 12:37 PM      Profile for Pogo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lima Bean:
Does anybody have any idea if sushi salmon is wild or farmed? It just happens to be one of my favourite fishies to eat raw. Eek!

If it doesn't say Pacific Salmon or Wild Salmon it is likely farmed.


From: Richmond BC | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 09 January 2004 12:48 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Now I'll have to find out if the salmon I buy comes from a farm or the wild.

At Safeway, at least, packages of wild salmon are labelled as such. And any time a package says "Atlantic salmon," the fish was definitely farmed.

Even before this, buying farmed salmon was not a good idea. The fish-farming industry, at least in B.C., is an unfolding ecological nightmare.

quote:
Does anybody have any idea if sushi salmon is wild or farmed?

Sushi salmon is almost certainly farmed, except maybe at some high-end restaurants that specifically advertise wild salmon. Farmed salmon is cheaper, more consistent in colour and texture, and available fresh almost any day of the year.

quote:
A critic of this study says in this a.m.'s Grope and Flail that the study was done on raw fish, and that if you first skin and then grill the fish, you will be eliminating most of the toxins.

I don't know about skinning. But as for grilling -- PCBs were designed specifically not to break down at high temperatures. Dioxins are the by-products of high-temperature combustion of certain organic compounds -- much higher temperatures than are involved in cooking.

I don't know about the other compounds involved. But I wouldn't be reassured by the US Food and Drug Administration's response -- especially since, in the last decade or so, it's lost so much of its independence, and become so beholden to industry.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
redshift
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posted 09 January 2004 12:54 PM      Profile for redshift     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i think that ,in light of the seriousness of these food issues, that reasonable people must evaluate their exposure just as we would with any other potentially harmful or toxic material.
and that, right there, is an unbelievable condemnation of the failure of governmental regulation and producer responsibility. the market has deemed it reasonable to poison the food supply to increase production.
i will probably eat both salmon and beef, realizing that considering age and the burden of toxic chemicals and heavy metals that a career in heavy industry has already exposed me to that on balance the elimination of these items is insignificant, personally.
i will advise my children to limit their exposure. i will also discuss with them the systemmatic misrepresentations that both government and industry are scurrying to hide behind to limit their culpability and liability.
class action lawsuits should be started under WHO against the feed manufacturers and any government which has knowingly lessened inspection standards in the face of evidence which clearly invites greater governmental oversight and regulation.

From: cranbrook,bc | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
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posted 09 January 2004 01:00 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In the past I've worked in fish plants along the west coast of Vancouver Island. I also ran an oyster farm on a small island for a time. I've seen first hand the effects of being penned on these fish. Ulcerated skin, fish putrefying from the inside while still living, fish with strange mutations like two hearts, deformed heads and twisted spines. This current revelation doesn't surprise me in the least. Suffice to say that I've not eaten farmed salmon in quite some time.
From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 09 January 2004 01:14 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And that's to say nothing of the possibility of the farmed salmon escaping and outcompeting the local salmon for breeding grounds and habitat. A few Atlantic salmon have been found in BC creeks. There are probably many more.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
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posted 09 January 2004 01:52 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Quite right. I hear it often from commercial fishers that Atlantic salmon grow considerably faster than Pacific salmon, and are therefore voracious eaters of Pacific fingerlings. What I'd like to know is if the escaped Atlantic salmon will make their way eventually into the pelagic zones.

[ 09 January 2004: Message edited by: flotsom ]


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DrConway
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posted 09 January 2004 03:27 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Incidentally, I've also heard that farmed salmon whose innards have insufficient "color" are tinted in order to fool the audience. So these days, when a buddy of mine and I go have some sushi, we crack jokes about the pale salmon being turned a nice pink for our benefit
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 09 January 2004 03:42 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Surely you've heard the story of P.T. Barnum trying to unload a truckful of unpopular canned white salmon on the American public and doing so, spectactularly, by making a big showy claim that his salmon was "guaranteed not to turn pink in the can".
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
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posted 09 January 2004 04:11 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm pretty sure that sashimi salmon is always from wild fish. On the coast, at least.

Or that's the case anywhere worth sitting down.

I know one of the fish-plants in Richmond used to process wild pink salmon so it can be had even tinned. I think Ocean's brand used to have a contract.

I've heard blue fin tuna has dangerous concentrations of heavy metal contamination -- which is another disturbing indicator of the dire state of the world's deep oceans.

[ 09 January 2004: Message edited by: flotsom ]


From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 09 January 2004 06:50 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 'lance:
And that's to say nothing of the possibility of the farmed salmon escaping and outcompeting the local salmon for breeding grounds and habitat. A few Atlantic salmon have been found in BC creeks. There are probably many more.

Actually this particular risk is extremely low. The Feds tried for about 50 years to introduce Atlantics into the BC coast (in less enlightened times) with no success.

The other problems are real. Not to mention the virus that turns kills fish by the ton when they are farmed (can't remember the name right now). As soon as it appears (like it did in Clayoquot Sound 2 years ago) the farm companies immediately start 'harvesting' everything that still moves in order to get them to market before their whole stock dies off. No word on what that means for us (the market they are getting them to).


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 09 January 2004 06:57 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The Feds tried for about 50 years to introduce Atlantics into the BC coast (in less enlightened times) with no success.

Interesting. I hadn't heard this. When did they give it up? And do you know why they didn't take?


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 09 January 2004 07:46 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's a datum left over from my days of working for DFO (on contract). I don't have the source off the top of my head, I'll dig around later on and see if I can find something.

One of my closest friends has been a fish farmer for the last 8 or so years. What he tells me gives me reason to be optimistic, while at the same time has convinced me NEVER to eat another farmed fish.

1. They escape constantly. Often in large quantities. When they escape, what they mostly do is sit outside the nets and wait for food, in much the same way that any domesticated animal will do so. They also die out there, fairly quickly (less evidence for this assertion, of course).

2. They are just barely financially viable. Algae blooms etc. kill off massive amounts of fish. Years of investment in feed and labour can be gone in a day.

3. They are extremely vulnerable to disease. Fish die all the time, in large quantities, like any factory farming operation. They also get put into the food chain (ours) if they get them quickly enough.

4. They are pumped full of chemicals and antibiotics. Yes, they are dyed, in some cases quite heavily.

5. There are some fish farming practices that have the potential of being environmentally friendly and healthy for the consumer. We should not dump the whole industry because the majority of it is polluting, corrupt and unhealthy. Rather, we should regulate intensively. Unfortunately, this is unlikely, especially in BC (remember Van Dongen)

6. They shoot mammals, a lot.

7. They flood the global market, which drives the overall price of salmon down, which in turn takes some of the pressure off of wild salmon. No government in the world will restrict salmon catches if they are making millions (which they would be, for a few years...)


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged

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