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Author Topic: Faith-based National Parks
Snuckles
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Babbler # 2764

posted 07 January 2004 04:29 PM      Profile for Snuckles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
How old is the Grand Canyon? Most scientists agree with the version that rangers at Grand Canyon National Park tell visitors: that the 10-mile chasm in northern Arizona was carved by the Colorado River 5 million to 6 million years ago.

Now, however, a book in the park's bookstores tells another story. On sale since last summer, "rand Canyon: A Different View," by veteran Colorado River guide Tom Vail, asserts that the Grand Canyon was formed by the Old Testament flood, the one Noah's Ark survived, and can be no older than a few thousand years.

The book, which sells for $16.99, includes essays from creationist scientists and theologians. Vail wrote in the introduction, "For years, as a Colorado River guide I told people how the Grand Canyon was formed over the evolutionary time scale of millions of years. Then I met the Lord. Now, I have a different view of the Canyon, which according to a biblical time scale, can't possibly be more than a few thousand years old."

Reaction to the book has been sharply divided. The American Geological Institute and seven geo-science organizations sent letters to the park and to agency officials calling for the book to be removed.

In part to appease some outraged Grand Canyon employees, the book was moved from the natural sciences section to the inspirational reading section of park bookstores.


Read it here.


From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy Shanks
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Babbler # 3076

posted 07 January 2004 04:32 PM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well sure. Cavemen took guided tours riding brontos in the park. Its in the Bible, surely.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
DownTheRoad
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Babbler # 4523

posted 07 January 2004 04:40 PM      Profile for DownTheRoad     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's amazing (and scary) how powerful faith can be. And forget any stereotypes about bible-thumping hillbillies. I've come across very intelligent, well educated people who believe that type of thing. Faith and reason are two different realms.
From: land of cotton | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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Babbler # 1064

posted 07 January 2004 04:57 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I've come across very intelligent, well educated people who believe that type of thing. Faith and reason are two different realms.

One time I saw a debate on so-called "creation science" on TVOntario. (It was a while back. The preferred term now is "intelligent design"). Representing the proposition that the earth is 4.5 billion years old or so, and the cosmos of course older yet, was a U of T astronomer. Representing the idea of, shall we say, a somewhat younger earth and cosmos (i.e., less than 10,000 years) was a man who claimed to be a mechanical engineer, with a Master's from MIT. Very articulate he was, too.

At one point the astronomer asked, "If the universe is so new, what about the galaxies we can see millions of light-years away? Did God create the universe with the light already most of the way to Earth, to mislead us?"

Not a bit of it, said buddy engineer. The speed of light used to be very very very much greater than it is now, is all. It delined rapidly in the early years, then more slowly, finally hitting a constant value in 1960.

This contention was based on maybe two or three actual data points. When the speed of light was first measured, around 200 years or so ago, the method wasn't as accurate as later methods. The scientists (or natural philosophers) of the day thought it was somewhat faster than it actually is -- maybe 5-10%? Something like that; and definitely close enough for government work back then, when nobody was building radios, lasers, particle accelerators, and the like.

From this, and later measurements, buddy had extrapolated backwards to a time when light was (you should forgive the technical jargon) honkin' fast, as opposed to its mere smokin' speed today.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 07 January 2004 05:03 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, the claim that the speed of light has changed is a relatively old one for 6x24x60x60 second creationists.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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Babbler # 1064

posted 07 January 2004 05:04 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
relatively

Of course you realize, Mandos, you're going to hell for that.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 07 January 2004 05:10 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, I forgot. It's an absolutely old one.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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Babbler # 1064

posted 07 January 2004 05:12 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, that's better.

As we know, Einstein was an atheist, and worse yet a socialist. We can't believe a word he told us.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 07 January 2004 05:13 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
He was????!!!???
From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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Babbler # 2534

posted 07 January 2004 07:04 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
and a Jew (but an atheist Jew).

Not to mention a German, Michelle .


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 07 January 2004 07:10 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Now there's my kinda guy.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DownTheRoad
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Babbler # 4523

posted 08 January 2004 04:17 PM      Profile for DownTheRoad     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This just in.
quote:
"We are looking back four-fifths of the way to the beginning of the universe and the existence of this galaxy string will send astrophysicists around the world back to the drawing board to re-examine theories of the formation of the universe," Francis said.

"The simulations tell us that you cannot take the matter in the early universe and line it up in strings this large. There simply hasn't been enough time since the Big Bang for it to form structures this colossal."



But maybe if the speed of light was much, much greater back then...

(I shoulda paid attention in physics class)


From: land of cotton | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
hibachi
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Babbler # 956

posted 09 January 2004 12:34 AM      Profile for hibachi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wonder if these galaxies make 11-dimensional string M-theory go the way of the ether. That would be nice.
From: Toronto, Ont. | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged

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