babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » current events   » national news   » Bruning woman wrote peom to Khalq leader

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Bruning woman wrote peom to Khalq leader
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 26 June 2003 04:13 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Burned woman pledged devotion to exiled Iranian

quote:
An Ottawa woman pledged eternal devotion to the arrested leader of an exiled Iranian opposition group in a poem the night before she set herself ablaze in a fatal protest, her father says.

I want to hear complaints about the use of the term "opposition group".


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 26 June 2003 04:21 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, the MEK is on terrorist organization lists in Canada and the US, I believe.

I think there can be room for debate, although I tend to reject organizations that use assassinations as their protest method. In this case, it is Iran's own people, protesting an extremely brutal and undemocratic government which is responsible for torturing and killing many of their people for political reasons or for things that should not be against the law. Some would say that when fighting such extreme oppressors, violence is not only necessary, but honourable. And I think it's important to distinguish between Iranians trying to fight for regime change and foreigners coming into Iran and dictating regime change. But then again, according to some things I've read, most Iranians don't support the MEK anyhow, so again, the whole subject of whether they're a terrorist organization or an "opposition group" is debatable. I guess to some they're one, and to others they're the other.

I wouldn't be one of those people, necessarily, who believes that violence is necessary in order to change the regime in Iran. But then, I haven't watched my brother or mother or cousin get carted off to jail and executed for political dissent. So I don't know how my opinion would change if it were brought home to me like that. What I do know is that when I heard the stories of how my ex was tortured in that country, and how his family has been persecuted ever since, I saw red.

[ 26 June 2003: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 26 June 2003 04:28 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, I understand that. It was only recently that the State Department classified the group as terrorist and it still has boosters in Congress, I believe.

But given that people quarrel over terms like disputed and occupied and struggle and terrorism, I expect there to be vigorous debate on this…


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kiavash Najafi
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4205

posted 26 June 2003 08:09 PM      Profile for Kiavash Najafi     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There's not much of a debate inside Iran whether MEK is a political group, or a terrorist group. What people know of them is that they joined Iraqis on their war against Iran (something that no other political party did, although all the other parties were in dire disagreement with the regime), and that they have orchestrated large explosions which have killed many civilians. Not cool to be oppressed by your own government and have the opposition to that government oppressing you even further.

MEK was a hardcore Islamist group at the beginning of the revolution. Its members are mostly religious, devoted Muslims, with Marxist-Stalinist leanings. They originally lobbied for the Islamic dress-code, which was really the introduction of Islamist takeover of the people's revolution. In general, they are not well-liked by Iranians. With all due respect to the members of the group and their ideology, I guess it's not too hard to see why Iranians don't like the MEK, whether you call them a political opposition group, or a terrorist group.


From: Toronto and Ottawa | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3322

posted 27 June 2003 02:00 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle wrote:
quote:
In this case, it is Iran's own people, protesting an extremely brutal and undemocratic government which is responsible for torturing and killing many of their people for political reasons or for things that should not be against the law.

Now, the Iranian government isn't known for its progressiveness, but are the recent protests really about what CNN tells us they are?
It may have something to do with something familiar to students everywhere.

quote:
Minister of Science and Technology unveiled a plan to privatize universities requiring the students to pay tuition fees causing dismay among the students who could not afford to.

It seems Campbell, Eves, and Klein have some ideological compadres in the Iranian government.

[ 27 June 2003: Message edited by: Jingles ]


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 27 June 2003 05:03 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, Kiavash, that's pretty much my ex's opinion of the group, too. But it's a love-hate thing for him, you know? He decries the tactics they use, but he is happy that they are against the current government. On the other hand, I don't think he believes that they'd be any better in power. He told me that the MEK were the ones before the revolution who were advocating for Islamic dress and all that. He said he agreed with it at the time until he and the rest of the country got a taste of what that really meant.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kiavash Najafi
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4205

posted 28 June 2003 12:56 AM      Profile for Kiavash Najafi     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I understand how the frustration with the Islamic regime can make some people love the enemy of their enemy. There are many Iranians inside and outside Iran who would whole-heartedly support a US invasion of the country in order to get rid of the current regime. Looking back at the history of the country one can actually see that Iranians have quite often fell in love with the enemy of their enemies. From Alexandrian invasion of the Persian empire, to the Arab, Mongol, Afghan, Russian, Purtegese, and British invasions of Iran, Iranians stood idle, because the invading force was the enemy of their bitter enemy, Iran's own regimes. The only war which was really faught by Iranians was the Iran-Iraq war, mostly because the revolution was fresh and Iranians had not yet tasted the bitterness of its awful turn to Islamic fundamentalism.

A point on the current protests in Iran: The protests did start in opposition to privatization of some universities. But it soon lost that focus, since people outside universities joined in to show their general opposition to the regime. Iran has some 17% unemployment rate, with a population of mostly frustrated young people. Unemployed, deprived of any social, political freedoms, bitter about the prospects of reforming the regime, they use any opportunity to show their frustration.

The demostrations peaked a few nights ago and Tehran has been calm since then, but I expect the anger resurface again as we approach the anniversary of an attack by militia men on university residences which happened a few years ago.

Unfortunately, there's no real leadership for the protests. And no opposition group has offered any concrete alternatives; all they have done in the last 25 years is a lot of bitching about what's wrong with the Islamic regime; no brainer, eh? The president is a moderate cleric with social-democratic tendencies. He has some good ideas but he lacks what it takes to reform the regime: a pair of balls! The parliament is composed of some brilliant reformists too. It would be wonderful to see some of these people take a leadership role and lead the current protests as an actual push for a democratic reform to the current regime, which until now has been stopped by the forces of conservatism. Leaving the students and other protesters on their own, and cheering for them from the White House can either send the protesters to their death, or send the country into yet another cycle of violence, anarchy, and more misery.


From: Toronto and Ottawa | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca