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Author Topic: What the hell is going on at the World Bank?
NDB
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posted 22 June 2003 04:26 PM      Profile for NDB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Land rights 'help fight poverty'

quote:
Increasing land rights for poor people is the key to reducing poverty and stimulating economic growth, a report by the World Bank has concluded. . . The Bank called on governments to recognise poor people's rights to land they legitimately occupied or, where the government owned the land, to give secure leases or transfer ownership to the occupants. . . Robin Palmer, land policy adviser at UK-based charity Oxfam, said the report represented "a major and welcome shift in World Bank thinking on land policy by offering an increased openness and flexibility in thinking, a readiness to admit to past mistakes and an avoidance of dogmatism".
This isn't the same World Bank is it? This a new group who'll be sued for stealing their trademark name and libeling them by saying things that make sense, right?

My eyes are bleeding I swear. Must be a sign of the apocalypse - poor people deserve wealth too, OMG.


From: Ottawa | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
NDB
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1234

posted 22 June 2003 04:28 PM      Profile for NDB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wait, I see what's going on here, this is a plot; first, we give poor people land, then rich people buy it from them and have them work it for them. Right. (I've seen JFK.)
From: Ottawa | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 22 June 2003 04:42 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, it's certainly clear that only the really poor people of Canada and the USA own land . . . right??

I don't think anyone has "compromised" the world bank's name, nor do I believe that they have had some sudden injection of common sense . . . I suspect your JFK theory is actually closer to the truth!!


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
redshift
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posted 22 June 2003 04:45 PM      Profile for redshift     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
two months ago they released a report that showed increased unionization in the labor force meant more wealth creation and better economic performance. its a bitch when numbers mess with ideology.
i really think that as computer processing and information gathering become more effective, net-effect accounting will expose to greater depth the social damage and cost of neo-con policy.
next health care companies will be suing industry for damages to clients, and banks will be attempting to recover lost income from corporations which displace workers who potentially may have been mortgage and loan customers.
i can't wait till the sharks and the alligators all get thrown in the same tank.

From: cranbrook,bc | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
NDB
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posted 22 June 2003 04:47 PM      Profile for NDB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by redshift:
i can't wait till the sharks and the alligators all get thrown in the same tank.
Can we toss in the Hawks too?

From: Ottawa | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 22 June 2003 04:52 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ahh yes, that would be an interesting world . . . one where the poor bankers would be economically oppressed by the cold hearted corporations!!
From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 22 June 2003 04:55 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The World Bank is always releasing reports that flatly contradict its actions. Never changes what they actually do or demand.
Actually, it's not so contradictory as all that really: The reports say x and y are good for developing countries. The World Bank and IMF dictate policies that go directly counter to x and y because their objectives are to do things that are good for wealthy investors and banks in developed countries, which calls for a very different set of policies. And they'll have to admit it the day the press decides this policy orientation is big, significant news and Satan starts skating to work.

From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 22 June 2003 05:07 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by No Yards:
Well, it's certainly clear that only the really poor people of Canada and the USA own land . . . right??

I don't think anyone has "compromised" the world bank's name, nor do I believe that they have had some sudden injection of common sense . . . I suspect your JFK theory is actually closer to the truth!!


They're actually following the reasoning by Hernando de Soto, who wrote this book detailing why he thinks capitalism worked better in the North American and Western European sectors of the Earth.

His basic premise is that capitalism's success is largely an accident, whose basic principle is glossed over by people who do not think to re-examine the basic processes that led up to it - and a key thesis of his book is that the "accident" was a simple, transparent mechanism of determining property ownership and its transfer.

This makes a lot of sense when you read modern economics textbooks and their focus on the importance of the exclusion principle in being able to take a private good and do something with it. If you can't clearly show who owns what chunk of (insert whatever here), you can't say "Ok, you can do whatever you want with it subject to minimal interference from the government".

de Soto's conclusion, then, which is apparently being adopted by the World Bank, is that the process of land reform to give poor people clear title to the land they've been squatting on for years or decades would be a powerful impetus to streamlining the slow transition into a modern, efficient capitalist society from a noncapitalist one.

If one examines successful land reforms, such as the one in Sicily in Italy, this idea certainly has a grain of truth to it.

I would continue to be skeptical of the degree to which the World Bank recognizes how badly it's screwed up in dispensing totally wrongheaded advice to Third World nations, however.

[ 22 June 2003: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 22 June 2003 07:32 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I suppose when PEOPLE are allowed to own property rather than have it all controlled by governments . . . and these property owning PEOPLE actually have a decent chance of producing something with that property, then the system may actually have some benefits.

BUT, the era when property rights acted in favour of PEOPLE, rather than CORPORATIONS, seems to have run its course.

In theory, it sounds like a good idea, but right wingers tend to abuse good ideas . . . for instance, they would definitly use property rights to demolish Canadian firearm laws, public lands, and increase the coporate hold over anything and everything!

[ 22 June 2003: Message edited by: No Yards ]


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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posted 22 June 2003 07:56 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The World Bank, along with the IMF, was set up at the Bretton Woods Conference at the end of WWII. The reasons for creating institutions like this were good. However, big business has been able to subvert it to it's own ends at every step. Land reform is a good idea; but I bet the big corps wind up with it all.
From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged

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