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Author Topic: Rumsfeld speaks again
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 20 June 2003 06:14 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
"You've got to remember that if Washington were the size of Baghdad, we would be having something like 215 murders a month," Mr Rumsfeld said. "There's going to be violence in a big city."

Washington more dangerous than Baghdad claims Rumsfeld

From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 20 June 2003 06:29 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You mean they DON'T have 215 murders a month in Washington DC?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 20 June 2003 06:44 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
According to this, Washington had 148 homicides in about the first seven months of 2002 (a 36% increase over 2001, incidentally), or about 21 per month on average.

So Rummy is saying that the population of Baghdad is roughly ten times that of Washington. Which, it turns out, is approximately true. How bizarre.

[ 20 June 2003: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3322

posted 20 June 2003 10:43 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So Rumsfeld basically says that if you are a young male in Washington, you're safer joining the army and taking your chances in Baghdad than you would be by staying home. Nice country ya got their.
From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
kiowa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3597

posted 20 June 2003 10:45 PM      Profile for kiowa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Jingles:

Based on the remarks you made to me on another theread I have already made a call to my lawyer to begin the process of determining who is hosting this site, etc.

You have gone too far this time. That was sheer libel.


From: Pax Americana | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3322

posted 20 June 2003 10:58 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
rolling in my sweet baby's arms
rolling in my sweet baby's arms
I'll lay around this shack
till that mail train comes back
I'll roll in my sweet baby's arms

From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 20 June 2003 11:08 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Excellent selection, Jingles. But of course we can't forget the classicStones in my passway:

quote:
I got stones in my passway
and my road seem dark as night
I got stones in my passway
and my road seem dark as night
I have pains in my hearts
they have taken my appetite
I have a bird to whistle

and I have a bird to sing
Have a bird to whistle
and I have a bird to sing
I got a woman that I'm lovin'
boy, she don't mean a thing
My enemies have betrayed me

have overtaken poor Bob at last
My enemies have betrayed me
have overtaken poor Bob at last
An ' 'ere's one thing certainly
they have stones all in my pass
Now you tryin' to take my life

and all my lovin' too
You laid a passway for me
now what are you trying to do
I'm cryin' please
plea-ease let us be friends
And when you hear me howlin' in my passway, rider
plea-ease open your door and let me in
I got three legs to truck home

boys, please don't block my road
I got three legs to truck home
boys, please don't block my road
I've been feelin' ashamed 'bout my rider
babe, I'm booked and I got to go



From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pimji
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 228

posted 20 June 2003 11:31 PM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
(Slouching in my lazy boy recliner in front of my computer)

Rumsfeld appears to believe that the levels of homicide in both his country and the country the US is occupying is normal. The status quo is acceptable.
This is standard military thinking, "We can trade this many lives for that many lives", until someone says uncle.


From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
kiowa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3597

posted 20 June 2003 11:49 PM      Profile for kiowa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I'll lay around this shack
till that mail train comes back


Jingles, if I wrote about another soldier what you wrote about me on that thread I would probably be court-martialed. There's not much I can do about someone like you. If you are a man you will agree to meet me personally. Who knows? Maybe we even share the same taste in beers?

Look, pal. The fact is your comments are are hurtful primarily because I fancy myself an bit of an intellectual. Maybe I'm I'm just a dumb soldier. But I've chewed men up with a cannon because I physically put myself in hamr's way over something I believe in.

Now maybe you don a black mask and beat your wiffle-bat against a few plate-glass windows in Seattle or Montreal, but if I were you I'd drop that swagger unless you can back it up.

Meet me. Say the same things to my face. I won't hit you, but I will respect you. I treasure free speech, but I'm troubled by emotionally disturbed infantile high-IQ flesh-bags that abuse the commons that a forum liek this represents.

Like I said. Put up, or shut up. Beer. My treat. Toronto, Boston, you call it. Let's resolve this.


From: Pax Americana | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3322

posted 21 June 2003 02:05 AM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You should check your med schedule, dude. Is it "go" pill day or "no-go" pill day? You really shouldn't mix alcohol with methamphetamines.

Instead of impotent threats and infantile bluster, why not address the comments of your Reichsmarschall Rumsfeld? Y'know, the guy who said that your army pals who die in Iraq are insignificant? Your lawyer may come in handy when you finally wise up to what you were sent to do.


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
kiowa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3597

posted 21 June 2003 02:10 AM      Profile for kiowa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Instead of impotent threats and infantile bluster, why not address the comments of your Reichsmarschall Rumsfeld

Let's meet and discuss. We'll report the results here. If you're not man enough, then try bothering the high-school kids with the pins through their navels. A more receptive audience.

Cipher.


From: Pax Americana | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3322

posted 21 June 2003 02:20 AM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Remember Col. Flagg from M*A*S*H? That's it! That's where I've heard this before.
From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
drgoodword
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3214

posted 21 June 2003 04:48 AM      Profile for drgoodword   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kiowa:
Jingles:

Based on the remarks you made to me on another theread I have already made a call to my lawyer to begin the process of determining who is hosting this site, etc.

You have gone too far this time. That was sheer libel.


Now, I'm not a lawyer...but I wasn't aware that an anonymous online handle could be libelled. To my understanding, libel is connected to damage. If no one knows who you are IRL, your reputation cannot suffer damages from what is said about your anonymous user ID on an online forum.

Of course, emotional distress is another matter...

Perhaps the lawyers onboard would like to offer comment...


From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 21 June 2003 10:58 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the lawyers on this board have better ways to waste their time.

Back to the topic at hand, Rumsfeld picked a very bad example. According to this source, Washington was the third most deadly city in the US in 2000, with 41.2 murders/year per 100,000 population. New Orleans and Detroit both squeaked by with slightly larger murder rates. Most other large cities come in at lower than 25/year/100,000. So Herr Rumsfeldenhoff is comparing one of the most violent cities in one of the most violent countries in the world to downplay the attacks on US soldiers in Baghdad. The Rumster doesn't even ask why the attacks are happening (besides to assume that every attacker is a 'Baath sympathizer'). Rumalumylumy doesn't consider that holding an entire group of people under military occupation might possible breed some resentment, which occasionally turns to violence. Rumpistiltskens just thinks that high levels of violence are natural in a big city because of his limited worldview.

Here's an article from 1998 with similar statistics for selected world cities. Guess who was number one back in 1998?


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wide Eyes
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Babbler # 1414

posted 21 June 2003 03:02 PM      Profile for Wide Eyes        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't realize that Washinton was being occupied by a foreign state against their will? Does Rumphead actually believe people would swallow his logic? How can you compare the gang/drug murders in Washinton DC to a resistance of a people against an occupying state. Let's compare apples to apples!
From: a lofty perch in my basement | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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Babbler # 3308

posted 22 June 2003 02:52 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Presumably, since there's basically no policing in Baghdad right now, neither we nor Rumsfeld have any idea how many actual murders of Iraqi citizens by other Iraqi citizens have happened in the last month. Perhaps Rumsfeld would like to compare the statistics on deaths of soldiers and of Iraqis at the hands of soldiers with statistics of killings by and of cops in American cities? That would seem a more relevant comparison.
From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
kiowa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3597

posted 22 June 2003 03:10 AM      Profile for kiowa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
If no one knows who you are IRL, your reputation cannot suffer damages from what is said about your anonymous user ID on an online forum.

The problem for Jingles is that I'm not anonymous:

Lt. Col. Ted Myllmaki
US Army (Ret.)
Boxford MA

I'd put my email address and phone number here as well, except I'd get spammed.

Look, I think (hope) Jingles got the message. Regardless of how apoplectic he gets about the stuff he reads over his morning coffee, his sustained and continuous slurs against the US, US military personnel, the US government and me personally will ultimately bear fruit. Bitter fruit.

Nearly all babblers disagree with Bush. I disagree with Bush. But although we do not have hate speech laws here, we do have recourse through the courts, and subpoenas can be served in Canada.

One or two remarks are harmless. Six months of sustained hate speech will attract attention.


From: Pax Americana | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
kiowa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3597

posted 22 June 2003 03:40 AM      Profile for kiowa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think I'll switch gears on babble and hang out in Arts and Entertainment for a while. I'd like some feedback on my rudimentary ideas on film criticism, and where better to start than amongst the Canadian intelligentsia?

Anyhow, Jingles, can we just agree not to personally insult each other on this board? That would do it for me.


From: Pax Americana | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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Babbler # 2092

posted 22 June 2003 06:36 AM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry Kiowa. Posting a name and address on the web means nothing at all. Nobody has any way of knowing if that's true. You could be a 10 year old South African quadrapalegic with MS for all we know. You're just a virtual entity on an open website. We don't know you and we can't libel you.

If you have a problem, you'll have to take it up with the moderator like anyone else. The law is not gonna care.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
mooose
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3439

posted 22 June 2003 07:46 AM      Profile for mooose     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Internet libel raises risk of high damages

quote:
Anybody who posts defamatory information on the Internet is a broadcaster and can be sued as if they were a regular newspaper or broadcast outlet, an Ontario judge has ruled, the Globe and Mail reported today.

The decision exposes defendants to far higher damages than had been the case since a defamatory statement on the Internet potentially can be read by so many people around the world.

Justice Helen Pierce of the Ontario Superior Court ruled that while the Internet uses the same “infrastructure” as radio and television, it can reach a wider audience than either.

“The court must recognize and give effect to the purpose of the act—including the mischief it seeks to ameliorate,” she said. “In this act, that harm is the widespread damage to reputation when a mass audience receives defamatory material.”



From: canada | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 22 June 2003 08:22 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
So Rummy is saying that the population of Baghdad is roughly ten times that of Washington. Which, it turns out, is approximately true. How bizarre.

Well ya. If you put a thousand Rumsfelds at a thousand typewriters for a thousand years, one of them is bound to type something true.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 22 June 2003 08:24 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kiowa:
Jingles:

Based on the remarks you made to me on another theread I have already made a call to my lawyer to begin the process of determining who is hosting this site, etc.

You have gone too far this time. That was sheer libel.


What? Get a grip, kiowa. Jingles said nothing about you, and there's no way anything he has said could constitute libel.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 22 June 2003 03:00 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
If you put a thousand Rumsfelds at a thousand typewriters for a thousand years, one of them is bound to type something true.

And it figures that when Rumsfeld comes out with a verifiably true statement, it's concerning something that's of little or no consequence. Baghdad has roughly ten times the population of Washington, D.C. Big whip[1]. Film at eleven, as they used to say on TV news teasers.

[1]If you'll pardon the expression, Tommy.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 23 June 2003 10:33 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kiowa:
Look, I think (hope) Jingles got the message. Regardless of how apoplectic he gets about the stuff he reads over his morning coffee, his sustained and continuous slurs against the US, US military personnel, the US government and me personally will ultimately bear fruit. Bitter fruit.

I missed this earlier. Kiowa, quit with the threats. Do it again and you'll be taking a vacation.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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Babbler # 1292

posted 23 June 2003 10:40 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
will ultimately bear fruit. Bitter fruit.
Bitter, bitter fruit. The bitterest, bitter fruit imaginable. More bitterer than the bitterest bitter's bitter. Bitter.

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 23 June 2003 10:46 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[stifling guffaws]

But seriously. Now how is that helpful, Wingy?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 23 June 2003 10:52 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bitter Fruit Indeed

quote:
Iraq Oil Flow Slowed by Sabotage, Looting

Latest news:
· U.S. Announces Creation of New Iraq Army
· US yields on paying Saddam's soldiers
· New blast hits Iraq fuel pipeline

In a reflection of the vulnerability of the country's decrepit oil infrastructure, a huge fire burned from a fuel pipeline west of Baghdad after an explosion the day before, apparently caused by saboteurs. South of the capital, attackers fired a grenade at a U.S. military vehicle, killing one American soldier and wounding another.

A wave of attacks have killed 17 Americans since major fighting was declared over May 1. Opponents of the U.S.-led coalition also have targeted Iraq's gas and oil network and other infrastructure, hurting efforts to get the country's most valuable resource moving again.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged

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