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Author Topic: These are the troops I'd like to support. USA! USA! USA!
clockwork
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posted 25 March 2003 05:37 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
"What we should do is go in there and kill every last soul," growled Sgt. Mike Brady.

MARINES OUT TO AVENGE BLOOD OF 'EXECUTED' GIS


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Can-Am
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posted 25 March 2003 05:41 PM      Profile for Can-Am     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So, clockwork, these angry remarks by a few Marines who watched as their buddies executed bodies were displayed on TV are representative of ALL Marines, right?

Sort of like how the remarks a few weeks ago of one babbler who called for nuclear strikes against US cities is representative of the beliefs of ALL babblers, right?


From: Canada | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Bluto
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posted 25 March 2003 05:48 PM      Profile for Bluto     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Can-Am says:

quote:
So, clockwork, these angry remarks by a few marines who watched as their buddies executed bodies were displayed on TV are representative of ALL Marines, right?

Clockwork's article says...

quote:
Marine after marine had the same message - many of them warning that there would be "no second chances for those Iraqis now."

And in the meantime, the Guardian reports that US helicopters are dropping cluster bombs in Basra.


From: Left Coast | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 25 March 2003 05:54 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
And in the meantime, the Guardian reports that US helicopters are dropping cluster bombs in Basra.

May I trouble you for a link? I can't find that at the Guardian. And I thought it was the British who were taking care of Basra.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 25 March 2003 05:59 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
American Presidents rely on the population of the states to rally round the flag in times of war no matter the political party they belong to. It is patriatism to one's country before one's leaders.

Why can't they accept that other peoples would take offence at being invaded. Especially when the invaders who are supposed to liberate them are from the same country that helped install Saddam in the first place. Maybe just maybe they feel defending their country from an invading force that has already imposed a dictator on them is more important than showing the American troops how grateful they are for liberating them.


From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Can-Am
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posted 25 March 2003 06:01 PM      Profile for Can-Am     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmm... Soldiers angry that their POW brethern are shot in the forehead and then paraded on TV. Sounds familiar. Like for example when Brisish and Canadian forces systematically exectuted 350 captured Waffen SS in 1944.

Naturally one would expected a bunch of Marines to take their cues from Svend Robinson: apologize to Saddam and go home.


From: Canada | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Wankity
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posted 25 March 2003 06:06 PM      Profile for Wankity        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Who'd have thought that the U.S. marines would be into killing people and breaking stuff!!?? What a shock.

Let's get a quote or two from the Republican Guard as I'm sure 'bloodthirst' is strictly a U.S phenomemon.

[ 25 March 2003: Message edited by: Wankity ]


From: Saskabush | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
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posted 25 March 2003 06:07 PM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Naturally one would expected a bunch of Marines to take their cues from Svend Robinson: apologize to Saddam and go home.

Perhaps they'll end up taking cues from that Marine sargeant in Kuwait?

From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 25 March 2003 06:14 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Naturally one would expected a bunch of Marines to take their cues from Svend Robinson: apologize to Saddam and go home.

I'd like to see you posdt a link to that slander.


From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 25 March 2003 06:30 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why are you people, including you Can-Am, arguing with my link. My vision of the Americans derives from reading stories about soldiers giving chocolates to children in Germany. Why do you guys go on the offensive on the quote of one marine that apparently develops bloodlust after invading a country in which he didn't realize the local tyrannical regime would resort to executions of American soldiers?


Besides, I never said the marine was representative. Just like I never claimed this guy is representative either:

quote:
At one checkpoint, I watched a Kuwaiti slow down his car to shout his thanks to the American troops. "God bless you!" he yelled to a soldier from Florida. The soldier pondered this for a moment -- then confessed he found it very strange because he thought the Arabs didn't believe in God.

Destination Baghdad


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bluto
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posted 25 March 2003 07:18 PM      Profile for Bluto     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Slim:
quote:
May I trouble you for a link? I can't find that at the Guardian. And I thought it was the British who were taking care of Basra.

Sorry, sorry, sorry... NOT Basra. Nassiriya. The Guardian is quoting an Iraqi hospital orderly who could, I suppose, be lying...

quote:
A surgical assistant at the Saddam hospital in Nassiriya, interviewed at a marine check point outside the city, said that on Sunday, half an hour after two dead marines were brought into the hospital, US aircraft dropped what he described as three or four cluster bombs on civilian areas, killing 10 and wounding 200...

..."They started bombing Nassiriya on Friday but they didn't bomb civilian areas until yesterday, when these American dead bodies were brought in.

"We know the difference between a missile and a cluster bomb. A missile shoots to one target whereas a cluster bomb spreads after they release it."



From: Left Coast | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rattelsnakendaddy
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posted 25 March 2003 07:19 PM      Profile for Rattelsnakendaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Perhaps the marines should put flowers in the barrels of thier guns and sit in the sand and sing Kum By Ah when they see this. Why the supprise that they are angry. They have been trained to not shoot unarmed civilians or captured soldiers and they will not!
From: Calgary | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 25 March 2003 07:23 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Two words, my strangely-monikered friend: My Lai.

[ 25 March 2003: Message edited by: black_dog ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rattelsnakendaddy
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posted 25 March 2003 07:27 PM      Profile for Rattelsnakendaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Conscript soldiers in a war that they were not allowed to win breeds wackos.
From: Calgary | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 25 March 2003 07:29 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Or perhaps training men to kill, then placing them in asituation where they can exercise their new talents breeds whackos.

War they weren't allowed to win? I think more than a million dead Vietnemese would disagree.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Can-Am
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posted 25 March 2003 07:33 PM      Profile for Can-Am     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Two words, my strangely-monikered friend: My Lai.

Don't forget No Gun Ri. Yes you can point to American atrocities. There aren't all that many of them, but they have lots of replay value on the Left. What the typical leftist neglects to mention is that America has aggressively investigated these crimes, even if it tool a long time. There have been prosecutions and courts martial over Mai Lai. There has been an overwhelming amount of grief and guilt expressed by the American people and for that matter by the US military over these terrible crimes.

Now, compared to some of the regimes which the Left has favoured in the past (Soviet Union, Maoist China, Cuba, North Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. etc.) I'd say that war American war crimes are rather few and far between.

But none of that matters to the pathological US-hater. There is a profoundly deep reason why the far left despises the US so much. I've only recently come to understand the full depth of this phenomenon, but it is both frightening and obvious when all the connections are made. Which will have to wait for later since my dinner awaits.


From: Canada | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rattelsnakendaddy
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posted 25 March 2003 07:34 PM      Profile for Rattelsnakendaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't think I need to go into the Geopolitics of the cold war and the theory of containment to make my point. Soldiers are given guns and trained to kill to protect you and me from those who want to kill us. Freedom comes from the barrel of a gun.
From: Calgary | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hawkins
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posted 25 March 2003 07:34 PM      Profile for Hawkins     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Where is this "executed" stuff coming from?
Please explain.

The difference between Iraqi soldiers and Americans is that one is defending their home from unjust invaders. What do you expect them to do? Lie down and let the tanks run them over?


From: Burlington Ont | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rattelsnakendaddy
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posted 25 March 2003 07:37 PM      Profile for Rattelsnakendaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
While the left may be disturbing they are no more frightening then mice with a tendency to nibble at your fingers. They will never be in charge of anything important enought to be frightening.
From: Calgary | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 25 March 2003 07:38 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Sorry, sorry, sorry... NOT Basra. Nassiriya. The Guardian is quoting an Iraqi hospital orderly who could, I suppose, be lying...

Thanks for the clarification. Meanwhile I found a story concerning an American F-18 dropping J-Dams on Basra targetted at "military sites hidden in civilian buildings". So I guess the Americans are providing air support for the Brits on the ground.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 25 March 2003 07:41 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Now, compared to some of the regimes which the Left has favoured in the past (Soviet Union, Maoist China, Cuba, North Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. etc.) I'd say that war American war crimes are rather few and far between.

But none of that matters to the pathological US-hater. There is a profoundly deep reason why the far left despises the US so much. I've only recently come to understand the full depth of this phenomenon, but it is both frightening and obvious when all the connections are made.


Hey Can-Am, I was simply responding to the other fellas' assertion that there's no way American troops would commit atrocities. I'd say, in light of the treatment of the American POWs, it's definitely a possibility. Otherwise, yeah, others have indeed done worse.

"Pathological U.S. haters"? That's a good one. I expect you're also worried that we'll corrupt your precious bodily fluids as well.

quote:
Soldiers are given guns and trained to kill to protect you and me from those who want to kill us. Freedom comes from the barrel of a gun.

Yeah Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. were never seen without their trusty AK's.
Jesus, is this how some people think, that if not for the military, the barbarian hordes would sweep through our nation, take our freedoms and rape our housepets? And they call me paranoid...
quote:
While the left may be disturbing they are no more frightening then mice with a tendency to nibble at your fingers. They will never be in charge of anything important enought to be frightening.

I love guys like this. They feel like big shots because their boys are calling the shots. News flash, pally: George W. is not your personal friend, no matter how big a syncophant you are.

[ 25 March 2003: Message edited by: black_dog ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rattelsnakendaddy
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posted 25 March 2003 07:43 PM      Profile for Rattelsnakendaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The difference between Iraqi soldiers and Americans is that one is defending their home from unjust invaders. What do you expect them to do? Lie down and let the tanks run them over?

Are you really that naive? The Republican Guard fight because Sadam pays them well to do so. Don’t give a fuck about there fellow civilians other than how good a shield they make. As for the conscripts they have been placed under RG control and are shot if they run or surrender

From: Calgary | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 25 March 2003 07:51 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So, how does that explain the hundreds of Iraqi ex-pats returning from Syria, Jordan and Iran to fight the Americans. You know, have you ever considered that maybe Iraqis, even the ones who loathe Hussein, may also love their country and would rather not see it overrun by foreigners?
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 25 March 2003 07:57 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Kill Japs!!! Kill Gooks!!!

Oops sorry wrong wars of liberation.

I for one can't understand why people don't see that Chilean leftists many elected in the oldest democracy in South America deserved to be shot and tortured after all they didn't like American capitalism.

Cental American catholic priests of course they were very evil and deserved to be shot and tortured for speaking out against American trained "freedom fighters" in the death squads.

Batista now there was a real patriot removed from his benevolent rule by murderous rebels.

And those damn East Timorese who do they think they were to demand their own destiny when clearly Indonesia was America's ally in the region and therefore above reproach.

And the people of Grenada the audacity to oppose American interests.

And those nasty Iranians overthrowing the dictator hand picked by America. Who do they think they are anyways didn't they know that America knows best.

And I only wish that the British hadn't repelled the liberating forces in 1812. I'm sure all the United Empire Loyalists were just waiting to greet them with flowers. Not to mention the Quebecois who even then were waiting to have the shackles of their french heritage stripped away by the liberating Americans.



From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rattelsnakendaddy
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posted 25 March 2003 08:01 PM      Profile for Rattelsnakendaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I love guys like this. They feel like big shots because their boys are calling the shots. News flash, pally: George W. is not your personal friend, no matter how big a syncophant you are.

Ding!Ding! but thnks for playing. I don't feel like a "Big Shot" Just one man one vote on the side of what is right. Some day you will love and care for somthing more than your own ass perhaps then you will see that the world can be a dangerous place with leaders that hate your freedom and your Plural Democracy.

And although I doubt that Bush and I are going to be swapping spit in the shower anytime soon Im glad it's him in the White House and not Clinton who would have responded to this threat with a few Tomohawks and a big frown


From: Calgary | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rattelsnakendaddy
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posted 25 March 2003 08:07 PM      Profile for Rattelsnakendaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sory folks But I have a life and need to get back to it but stay tuned for cold war updates and the US desire not to get in a pissng match with every Tin Pot dictator tommorow.
From: Calgary | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 25 March 2003 10:44 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The ironic thing, I think, is that in these discussions it's always the supposedly hard-headed realistic pro-war types who display such wide-eyed childlike naivete about war in general and American soldiers in particular. For example:

quote:
They have been trained to not shoot unarmed civilians or captured soldiers and they will not!

Every country's soldiers commit atrocities. The victors hide their atrocities, like these American atrocities in Afghanistan and play up or invent the atrocities of the vanquished. This is the way of the world and is reason #5711 why all right-thinking, moral human beings are against war unless there is no other option.

Invading a country to depose a former friend who poses you no threat and whose behaviour has not changed since you were pals does not constitute a "no other option" situation, though it does constitute a pattern for American Presidents (remember Bush I's pal Noriega?).


From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Can-Am
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posted 25 March 2003 10:51 PM      Profile for Can-Am     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Yeah Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. were never seen without their trusty AK's.

Both Ghandi and MLK were exceptional precisely because they were "fighting" not against a vicious dictator (who would have murdered both men in the blink of an eye) but rather against British and American society respectively. Because both of these cultures are essentially humane and capable of change for the better the peaceful resistence practised by Ghandi and MLK was powerfully effective. Against Saddam or Hitler these tactics would never even have gotten off the ground.


From: Canada | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Can-Am
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posted 25 March 2003 10:53 PM      Profile for Can-Am     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Are you really that naive?

Yes Rattlesnakedaddy, they are. And it is fucking despicable.

quote:
Iraqi troops fired artillery pieces horizontally into crowds of their own people last night after a civilian uprising in Basra, the second city.

Watching British troops encircling the city of 1.3 million inhabitants said there were "horrific" scenes. One officer said: "We have seen a large crowd on the streets. The Iraqis are firing artillery at their own people. There will be carnage."


Defend that. Fuck.

[ 25 March 2003: Message edited by: Can-Am ]


From: Canada | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Moredreads
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posted 25 March 2003 11:00 PM      Profile for Moredreads     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Reliable source please.
From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 25 March 2003 11:03 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, a reliabel source would be nice given that what I read today was that not only did BBC backtrack from the rebeellion story but also posted a story saying Irawqi exiles in Jordan had returned to Iraq to fight the invader.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 25 March 2003 11:03 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why would I wish to defend the Iraqi troops firing on their own citizens?

I dare you to show me where I have ever defended the actions committed by Saddam Hussein's regime on Iraqi citizens in wartime or peacetime.

If you can't then I would suggest you knock it off.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Moredreads
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posted 25 March 2003 11:07 PM      Profile for Moredreads     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Also, in the case that this is actually true, one should ask whether or not these civilians were aremed and trying to kill the members of regular army units, which seems likely. In that case it would seem that the presumed imorality of the act would be muddy.
From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 26 March 2003 05:54 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Now, compared to some of the regimes which the Left has favoured in the past (Soviet Union, Maoist China, Cuba, North Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. etc.) I'd say that war American war crimes are rather few and far between.

I take it you're one of the polemicists, Can-Am, that argue that because Chomsky says the American bombing campaign in Cambodia helped the Khmer Rouge, as this guy does:
quote:
Worse, as the war dragged on, policies meant to prop up wobbly dominoes instead had the effect of shoving them in the opposite direction. South Vietnam grew so dependent on American support that when aid was cut off in 1975 it was unable to ward off the invading North. President Richard M. Nixon's secret bombing of Cambodia destabilized that country, clearing the way for the Khmer Rouge under its brutal dictator, Pol Pot, to take charge.

it somehow means that Chomsky (and this author) somehow support the Khmer Rouge, or are apologists for it.

I suggest a different interpretation (equally absurd). Support of the bombing campaign in Cambodia automatically translates to support for the Khmer Rouge as well. Tsk, tsk. I never thought a good freedom loving person would support the Khmer Rouge. Shame on you conservatives.
Some leftists long ago did support the Soviet Union. Hell, some of them claim Cuba is a great place now. But, Can-Am, as you tried to argue with me, in another thread, does one or two comments represent everyone that is considered leftists? You claimed that I shouldn't take one Marine's comments out of context and I agree. Are you then claiming that a couple nutcases you might read about then speak for me?

Or let me guess: you're niave enough to let an internet chat board, filled with losers like me and you, influence your opinion about a whole spectrum of thought.


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 26 March 2003 07:04 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And just to add to that, many on the right supported, and still do, Pinochet. As well, many long for the days of Papa Doc and Baby Doc in Haiti.

To use the logic of someone like Can-Am, we would have to then presuppose thsat anyone who subscribes to right wing thought then supports blooody dictators such as Saddam Hussein who was the darling of the right only 20 years ago.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Adam Smith
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posted 26 March 2003 07:09 AM      Profile for Adam Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Sort of like how the remarks a few weeks ago of one babbler who called for nuclear strikes against US cities is representative of the beliefs of ALL babblers, right?

Can you or anyone else substantiate this Can-Am? Does anyone have a link to the thread?


From: Manitoba | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 26 March 2003 07:59 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To add to Wingnut's comments, much was made recently of photos with a rather young Hussein and a similarly young Chirac (even I posted the photo's to babble), but look at the picture below. Rumsfled's hair isn't grey!

Photo found here with the caption:

quote:
Donald Rumsfeld, shown in December 1983 shaking hands with Iraqi President Saddam Hussein in Baghdad, was then an aide to President Reagan. Today, he is pushing for a war to oust Saddam.

If I remember right, 1983 was after Hussien invaded Iran. I suppose the current excuse for war, partly based on it's invasion of Iran, needs to casually gloss over this photo (but highlight the Chirac one to show the perifidy of the French).

What's the Shakespeare quote applicable here? "A pox on both your houses"?

[ 26 March 2003: Message edited by: clockwork ]


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 26 March 2003 01:25 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I remember the post, it was definitely on the outrageous side. In the context of America going to a position that it can use tactical nukes premptively and that North Korea might retaliate with strikes in Asia and in America one very misguided person opined that if any cities had to be nuked it should be an american one.

Can-am only complained about the threat to american cities he didn't have any problem with the tactical nuclear weapons idea or America using them when they feel threatened.

What asshole right wingers like him don't understand is that many of us on the left have been denouncing supposed "left wing" dictatorships as loudly as we have opposed right wing dictators and death squads. Stalin or Hitler I don't care. Pol Pot or Pinochet I don't care I have loudly condemned them both.

I oppose all dictatoiral governments. The reason I am so pissed of at the American view is that they spout democracy as rhetoric. You can't have Fort Benning for decades and then say that we have to invade countries that support terrorists. It is hypocritical at best.

My first rememberance of a September 11 autrocity was when I saw the pictures of people herded into a stadium in Chile because they had the audacity to support an elected government that was not going to be controlled by American corporations. The people in that stadium looked just like me and were involved in the same kind of democratic left wing movemenets. And then watching the death squads who were American trained operate in Latin America killing good people of peace like Archbishop Oscar Romeras have formed my view of American foreign policy.

So Can-am how often have you spoken out against Pinochet or Suharto? Where is your consistency?

I guess you agree with the old american view about Batista; " he may be a bastard but he's our bastard." It is that decades old world view from the American leadership that makes me oppose the American regime not the American people. Except of course if they support the regime.


From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
cynic
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posted 26 March 2003 01:58 PM      Profile for cynic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is great delusional stuff from rattlerboy:
quote:
Just one man one vote

What, exactly, does this have to do with presidential elections in the US? The electoral college was set up precisely to invalidate the idea of true democracy. I realize its drifting off-topic, but come on. In Florida, the legislature can even appoint the memebers of the college themselves, regardless of who gets the most votes. So even if Gore or Nader had got 100% of the popular vote in Florida, Jeb could have ordered the electoral votes to go to his widdle brother. Democracy in action.

From: Calgary, unfortunately | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
ronb
rabble-rouser
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posted 26 March 2003 02:22 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And the blinkers of the month club prize goes to...

quote:
Yes you can point to American atrocities. There aren't all that many of them...

... from the same eagle-eyed poster who claims that capitalism isn't exploitative at all because it can't see any exploitation from the windows of its condo in Vancouver.


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Moredreads
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3393

posted 26 March 2003 02:56 PM      Profile for Moredreads     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
NASSIRIYAH, Iraq - U.S. Marines, moving through this still-contested city, opened fire at anything that moved Tuesday, leaving dozens of dead in their wake, at least some of them civilians.

Empahsis added.


From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Moredreads
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3393

posted 26 March 2003 03:13 PM      Profile for Moredreads     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Read this in the light of the last article... Reality gap?

quote:
"We're more likely to take a little bit more risk ourselves than to bring the population in harm's way. But that's a constant calculation," Myers added when pressed on whether western forces were being too careful in bombing and missile attacks on Iraqi forces in the six-day-old war.

From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy M
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2183

posted 26 March 2003 03:19 PM      Profile for Tommy M     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Moredreads
Have to fill up those refugee camps somehow.

Edited to add:

quote:

At one forward position, soldiers asked a reporter to carry a pistol to help protect the perimeter.

There's impartiality for you.

[ 26 March 2003: Message edited by: DeadEye ]


From: Here | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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Babbler # 2732

posted 26 March 2003 05:50 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And if that reporter did, according to the US it would be a violation of the Geneva convention because he was not regular troops. Maybe even an unlawful combatant and if captured then he could be transferred to a prison camp in the desert somewhere and tortured just like the unlawful combatants in Afghanistan.
From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kindred
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3285

posted 26 March 2003 05:58 PM      Profile for Kindred     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This thread has strayed off course, which I believe was the original reaction of marines and others to their slain comrades.

I feel their reaction is understandable in wake of their viewing their dead and captured. Its only human nature to protect that which we identify with - I immediately identified with the female and my first thought was "oh no, a woman". I dont believe any person on earth is going to see this and NOT be affected by it. I am not supporting the war, I think you all know this, but it "tweaks" to see this - to see any captives, any victims of the war.

The alternative would be more horrific, to be able to step over the bodies of your fallen comrades and NOT be angered by it.

Regardless of your feelings about this war, regardless of the fact that the US should have been prepared for casualties - regardless of all the realities of going into battle, the people fighting over there are just human beings with human reactions to what they see -

This is the tragedy of war, the thousands of soldiers on both sides who will carry the memory and the hate forever in their hearts and minds. Not one of them will be able to walk off the battle field with no anomisity (sp?) and that, is exactly where the next war will plant its seed.


From: British Columbia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3322

posted 26 March 2003 07:50 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Kiss me goodbye and write me while I'm gone
Goodbye my sweetheart, hello Vietnam

I wonder if the inbedded reporters will cover the upcoming massacres?

quote:
"What we should do is go in there and kill every last soul," growled Sgt. Mike Brady.

The Americans have lost the war.


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kindred
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3285

posted 26 March 2003 07:58 PM      Profile for Kindred     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Americans have lost the world, not just the war. They will never recover from this.
From: British Columbia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
bellows
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 747

posted 26 March 2003 08:55 PM      Profile for bellows     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wonder how many of you arm chair generals ever served in the Armed Forces? Stand up and be counted. I will be #1.
From: Corner Brook | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 26 March 2003 09:13 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And you were a General? My oh my, I'm impressed.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hawkins
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3306

posted 26 March 2003 09:22 PM      Profile for Hawkins     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why are you on babble and not a news report??

We are not generals, we are people with opinions... the most important thing in an organized society.


From: Burlington Ont | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Moredreads
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3393

posted 26 March 2003 09:25 PM      Profile for Moredreads     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Absolutely, all the real ones are presently employed and the networks are out there looking for quality expert opinions from qualified military personell. Who knows you might hit the brass ring.
From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3322

posted 26 March 2003 10:22 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was a private in the KISS army, but I was busted and received a dishonorable discharge for Conduct to the Prejudice of rocking all night and partying every day.
From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
ronb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2116

posted 26 March 2003 10:32 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kindred
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3285

posted 27 March 2003 03:52 PM      Profile for Kindred     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just a thought, but being in the Armed Forces would disqualify you from being an unbiased observer - not all reporters are in the middle east, some are sitting right here reporting on reactions and opinions at home, in the US and Canada and where ever - writing columns in their heads as they participate on Babble -- perhaps? Its a great place to get opinions from informed people, (for the most part). Babble is an excellent source for a columnist, "what are people thinking about? Talking about? Concerned about?"
From: British Columbia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2776

posted 27 March 2003 04:43 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I lead my own Army of One. Of course, back in the day folks like me were just called "lone nutjobs."

So I guess in this wonderful free and democratic country you're only allowed to talk about things that you have direct, personal experience in. Wow. That sounds frightfully dull.

quote:
I was a private in the KISS army, but I was busted and received a dishonorable discharge for Conduct to the Prejudice of rocking all night and partying every day.

Did they ceremoniously strip you of your spiked shoulder pads and platform boots?


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged

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