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Author Topic: George W. Bush -- "Not A Moron!"
Albireo
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posted 28 November 2002 03:57 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
According to one author, Bush is not stupid at all... just an evil sociopath who fumbles when he strays from his home turf. Click!

quote:
"Bush is not an imbecile. He's not a puppet. I think that Bush is a sociopathic personality. I think he's incapable of empathy. He has an inordinate sense of his own entitlement, and he's a very skilled manipulator. And in all the snickering about his alleged idiocy, this is what a lot of people miss."

Miller's judgment, that the president might suffer from a bona fide personality disorder, almost makes one long for the less menacing notion currently making the rounds: that the White House's current occupant is, in fact, simply an idiot.

If only. Miller's rendering of the president is bleaker than that. In studying Bush's various adventures in oration, he started to see a pattern emerging.

"He has no trouble speaking off the cuff when he's speaking punitively, when he's talking about violence, when he's talking about revenge.

"When he struts and thumps his chest, his syntax and grammar are fine," Miller said.

"It's only when he leaps into the wild blue yonder of compassion, or idealism, or altruism, that he makes these hilarious mistakes."



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Kindred
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posted 28 November 2002 04:27 PM      Profile for Kindred     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have always said Bush is evil and evil suggests a certain amount of intelligence, to discount him as "merely a moron or an idiot" would be a huge mistake - he is a very dangerous man. I dont think he is very bright, meaning he doesnt have a well rounded intelligence, or the ability to realize how destructive he and evil he really is. He is a complete moron and idiot when it comes to recognizing that others dont agree with him or want war. He seems to miss that all together. He is a moron and idiot when he threatens other countries and just labels people as terrorists -

I know its funny when the media is referring to him as an idiot or a moron but he is in fact a very dangerous fanatic with an omnipotent personality. Much like Hitler was.


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Smith
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posted 28 November 2002 07:26 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't get the personality cult around him, though. Although I suppose, in my post-Hitler world, I don't really understand why Hitler was so compelling, either.
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DrConway
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posted 28 November 2002 07:31 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You know, I completely missed that possible psychopathy diagnosis, and it has just suddenly hit me with great force that Dr. Robert Hare, Canada's foremost expert on psychopaths, has noted odd speech patterns that are characteristic of psychopathy.

Clifford Olson, just to name an example off the top of my head, was quoted in Hare's book as attempting to say that he had had anal sex with his victim, but he said annual sex.

Dubya has some similar tendencies to substitute inappropriate words or make up ones to suit.


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Flowers By Irene
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posted 28 November 2002 07:32 PM      Profile for Flowers By Irene     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Political rubbernecking? I don't know. I've heard Americans (not many, but some) on other boards defend his popularity as "he's the president, we're at war. You gotta support him." They buy that knee-jerk patriotism down there wholesale, and in bulk.
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Smith
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posted 28 November 2002 07:32 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Huh.

You know, I think I'll stick with "moron." Less creepy.


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pericles
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posted 29 November 2002 08:52 AM      Profile for pericles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pericles says:

I challenge anyone to provide anything other than superficial evidence that

a) George W Bush is a "moron";
b) George W Bush suffers from a personality disorder.

Articles that make wild assumptions based on patterns of speech are not acceptable for this exercise, nor are inductive arguments derived from US foreign policy.


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'lance
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posted 29 November 2002 12:26 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
'lance says:

Doesn't Elmo have this verbal tic?


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Briguy
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posted 29 November 2002 12:39 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Brian says:

What about when you refer to yourself in the third person? Brian finds such mannerisms troubling.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 29 November 2002 12:44 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Brian must have been very disturbed by Bob Dole, then. 'lance was at first disturbed, then amused, by Bob Dole's dirty-old-man turn on that Pepsi commercial. But we've been there before, y'know?

Bob Dole's not a moron, whatever else he may be.


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Lima Bean
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posted 29 November 2002 12:54 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've long held that for a man to garner as much global power as Dubya's got in his gruubby little hate-mongering fingers, he's got to be fairly shrewd and intelligent.

Whatever, yeah, he reads books upside down and looks through binoculars with the lens caps still on, and says stupid words at the wrong time, but he also has a huge nation of people standing willfully behind his every move, accepting his big brother surveillance and nearly absolute disintegration of their own personal freedoms. They all believe him and support him, and to have acheived that, he has had to be magnificently (and malignantly) calculating and careful. He's intelligent, alright.

I also think he's a psychopath hell bent on world power=revenge=genocide=makin' his papa proud...They're all the same to him and that's why he's so bloody dangerous.


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Daoine
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posted 29 November 2002 01:04 PM      Profile for Daoine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That whole "respect him because he's the president" business is pretty serious down here. But it's pretty fishy as well.

For example, when Clinton was president, most of the people I now hear talking about "respect for the office" seemed perfectly comfortable with open character assassination. Likewise, Carter was despised while he was in office, and for most if not all of Reagan's regime. Despite the fact that in retrospect many of his policies have turned out to be sound, there's still a strong tendency to wave them off. Of course, this is partially because many of his policies aren't pro-business...

I don't know whether or not Bush is intelligent or a psychopath. I know that I despise the political machinery that he fronts for. He has degrees from high-profile universities, which it has been argued prove that he is intelligent. Considering the number of electrical engineers I know who've graduated from good engineering schools but can't build an amp, I'd say that this doesn't necessarily mean anything more than that he graduated. (No matter how good the program, you get out what you put in where knowledge is concerned; and sometimes grading is less dependent on subject mastery than other considerations.)

If I had to point out anyone as particularly evil, it'd be James Baker.

The point is that whether he can't enact good policy (i.e. he has a mental deficiency) or whether he won't, he isn't.

Among the explanations for his victory over Gore, it has been suggested that Gore came across as too much of an intellectual, while Bush was "down to earth". Bush has people skills, and he has cunning. It isn't clear that he has vision, however. And while people skills and cunning are invaluable in politics, you've got to have somewhere to go in order to effectively lead. (I'm sorry, but in my opinion corporate interests don't count as "vision", as they're of such limited term. Likewise, religious conservative interests aren't focused on the long term because they aren't convinced there's going to be a long term.)


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Briguy
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posted 29 November 2002 01:10 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I don't know whether or not Bush is intelligent or a psychopath.

Brian says:

To be fair, Brian was referring to Asscroft when Brian insinuated that Asscroft was an intelligent psychopath. Bush is not intelligent.

Brian adds:

Brian just now realizes that Brian is referring to another comment in another thread. Brian apologizes.

[ November 29, 2002: Message edited by: Sarcasmobri ]


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 29 November 2002 01:31 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Perhaps Chretien and Bush have quite a bit in common: a "just plain folk" façade hiding some pretty shrewd and calculating political instincts. My sense is that Chretien accomplished this by design, and Bush by accident. But I may be wrong...
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DrConway
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posted 29 November 2002 01:45 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
DrConway says:

People who nigletize like Pericles and who refer to themselves in the third person give DrConway hives.


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pericles
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posted 29 November 2002 03:18 PM      Profile for pericles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pericles says:

I praise Limabean and Danoine for approaching the question of George W Bush's presidency from a perspective based on fact instead of playground name-calling. Some may believe Bush to be misguided, or lacking in vision, or guilty of seeing the world in black and white instead of more cosmopolitan shades of grey; but a fool he is not, and his political shrewdness speaks to this conclusion. I made this point because I don't believe characterizing Bush as a "moron" assists your cause; indeed, continuing to believe this likely leads you to underestimate him. If it is change you seek to promote, you must "know your enemy" as he is, not as you would prefer him to be. High-handed sanctimoniousness doesn't usually gain any converts.

As to DrConway: I would urge you to base your arguments on fact as opposed to puerile ad-hominem arguments; I also note that antihistamines are readily available at most neighborhood drug stores.


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ronb
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posted 29 November 2002 03:23 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
High-handed sanctimoniousness doesn't usually gain any converts.

Case in point...


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DrConway
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posted 29 November 2002 07:03 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have allergies to people who insist on excessive nitpicking (which is the origin of my invented word, "to nigletize"), and unfortunately for you, Mr. Pericles, antihistamines don't work too well for that. Removal of the excessive nitpickiness, however, works wonders.
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Jacob Two-Two
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posted 30 November 2002 12:47 AM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't see why Bush can't be both a moron and a dangerous psychopath. That's how I've always seen him.

But this thread is raising some doubts in my mind. It is conceivable, despite appearances, that Bush is an intelligent psychopath as opposed to an imbecilic pychopath directed by a cabal of intelligent psychopaths. But does it really matter? The academic whys and wherefores of dangerous killers are things to be discussed after you've stopped them.

Either way, he and the people he represents are a danger to the entire world, far moreso than the sickest, most megalomaniacal dreams of your common, street-level serial killer. When you stay focused on this pertinent fact, discussion of whether or not he's a moron seems of little relevence.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Snow
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posted 30 November 2002 10:39 AM      Profile for Snow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
GWB is a moron and a nut. Just look at the decisions he makes.
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clersal
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posted 30 November 2002 12:23 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Moron, evil, psychopath, nut, sociopathic personality, idiot, a danger to the entire world.
Can we agree that he should not be President of anything?

[ November 30, 2002: Message edited by: clersal ]


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SHH
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posted 30 November 2002 01:26 PM      Profile for SHH     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Either way, he and the people he represents are a danger to the entire world, far moreso than the sickest, most megalomaniacal dreams of your common, street-level serial killer.
I was reading the experience of some blogger-guy in Minnesota that was out on a date. The subject of politics and Norm Coleman came up and the lady said, with the face of child presented a bowl of brussel-sprouts, ‘I hate Norm Coleman!’ The man thought to himself, ‘Gee. I don’t really like Coleman’s positions either. But to almost shout, with a red faced hiss, such hatred – and on a first date even – was, well, spooky.’ That was their last date too.

Deal with the faults of others as gently as with your own.
— Henrichs

Now there's some sanctimony for ya!


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rbil
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posted 30 November 2002 01:37 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
pericles had this to say about Bush
quote:
Some may believe Bush to be misguided, or lacking in vision, or guilty of seeing the world in black and white instead of more cosmopolitan shades of grey; but a fool he is not, and his political shrewdness speaks to this conclusion.

pericles, you really need to stop believing that the ventriloquist's dummy is doing all the talking.

With all the power, money and media friends in high places, whitewashing this moron's presidency, it's pretty presumptious to suggest that Bush is some sort of shrewd politician. He's simply the puppet, the dummy, taught to utter a few repetitive phrases which he often times has difficulty doing. With that kind of support controlling the mindset of Amerika, they could have placed almost anyone in the presidency or anything, and convinced people that he/she/it was a brilliant leader.

Cheers,
Rene


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SHH
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posted 30 November 2002 01:41 PM      Profile for SHH     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"AmeriKa"??

Is that still cool?


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CyberNomad
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posted 30 November 2002 01:49 PM      Profile for CyberNomad     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
"AmeriKa"??
Is that still cool?

Of course, it is! Among the Kooks, that is. Cheerful lot, they are (the Kooks, that is).

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SHH
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posted 30 November 2002 02:02 PM      Profile for SHH     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
'54 was a good year was it not?
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pericles
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posted 30 November 2002 04:15 PM      Profile for pericles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In responding to Rbil's comments, Pericles says:

Given Bush's ability to take initially unpopular legislation and win converts over to his side as well as his highly successful campaigning for the Republican cause during the recent primaries, I think it's fairly reasonable to see him as a shrewd politician. Certainly more reasonable than to view him as being the puppet of some Illuminati-inspired cabal, at any rate.

As to DrConway, Pericles still awaits something other than name-calling and complaints of nit-picking. Pericles also wonders if the "Dr" signifies anything at all beyond two characters at the beginning of a handle.


From: somewhere | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
clersal
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posted 30 November 2002 05:56 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The shrub shrewd?
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swallow
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posted 30 November 2002 06:03 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why does pericles fear the perdendicular pronoun?

Seriously dude, what's up with that? Are you some form of artificial intelligence?


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clersal
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posted 30 November 2002 06:55 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Artificial maybe. Intelligence is doubtful.
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rbil
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posted 03 December 2002 01:41 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Case Closed ...

"Ariel Sharon of Israel is a Man of Peace"
George W. Bush

"General Musharraf of Pakistan is a Democrat"
George W. Bush

"The inhabitants of Greece are the Greecians"
George W. Bush

"The French don't have a word for 'Entrepreneur'"
George W. Bush

"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."
George W. Bush

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
George W. Bush

"I have made good judgments in the past.
I have made good judgments in the future."
George W. Bush

"The future will be better tomorrow."
George W. Bush

"We're going to have the best educated American people in the
world."
George W. Bush

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
George W. Bush

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO.
We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
George W. Bush

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the
polls."
George W. Bush

"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
George W. Bush

"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our
children."
George W. Bush

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment.
It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
George W. Bush

"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system."
George W. Bush


Cheers,
Rene


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paxamillion
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posted 03 December 2002 01:55 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As I recall, conservatives made the same accusations about Clinton -- that he probably had Anti-Social Personality Disorder. One of the few things I think I remembered about psychopaths is that they tend to have trouble dealing with complexity.
From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
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posted 03 December 2002 02:01 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment.
It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
George W. Bush

"...these impurities invade our precious bodily fluids."
Dr Strangelove.


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josh
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posted 03 December 2002 02:02 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And my personal favourtie:

"Is our children learning?"


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 03 December 2002 02:14 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We have ample evidence that GWB is an idiot. We have nothing but the opinion of a guy named Miller, not a shrink, not an expert in personality disorders, but a guy who was going to write a humourous book, to the contrary.

Bush is a moron. The people behind him, scarily, are not.


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 03 December 2002 02:38 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
BTW, that list of Bush quotes is apocryphal. He may have said some but not others. Some have been attributed to other politicians, like Quayle or Gore.

[ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: albireo ]


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Sisyphus
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posted 03 December 2002 04:27 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
We have ample evidence that GWB is an idiot. We have nothing but the opinion of a guy named Miller, not a shrink, not an expert in personality disorders, but a guy who was going to write a humourous book, to the contrary.

I would submit, having read the book as well as his brilliant Boxed In, that Mark Crispin Miller is the most astute, cogent and useful media critic working in the U.S. today.
I thought it was just going to be a "Bush is a Moron " collection of humourous quotes.

It's not.

It is a meticulously researched and argued investigation of the historical context of Bush Jr.'s presidency, combined with a trenchant analysis of the current state of U.S. political journalism and why the Chimp fits it like a glove and how he manages to come off as a down-to-earth good ol' boy instead of the pampered, silver spoon sucking slacker that he is.

The quotes Miller uses to make is points are not the ones attributed to him earlier in this thread, but are actually things he said (location, time and occasion noted for each).

MCM weaves many ideas together in the course of this book, so that even a summary is longer than I want to write.

I will say that I believe Miller's take on the man: he is profoundly ignorant. He doesn't care. He is contemptuous of all those who are inferior to him. This includes academics and political opponenents. He is very savvy in the ways of dirty politics and in this respect, people who consider him a moron, do so at their peril. He is well aware that his family (on both sides) puts him above the law and above the reach of the press. He knows enough to use these connections for personal gain.

Miller reads his malapropisms as an unconcious contempt for the lower "Ivy Leaguers" who had to produce academically to graduate. He is demonstrably without empathy, compassion or integrity.

I recommend The Bush Dyslexicon to all who want a well-documented object lesson in how the American Media undermines democracy and why Bush's failings are invisible to the very people his policies are hurting. (How did this man capture the Spanish-American vote in his run for Governor of Texas?)

[ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: Sisyphus ]


From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 03 December 2002 04:32 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
He sounds just like a mob boss.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 03 December 2002 04:37 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I think you'd probably find that he was no less conversant with Aristotle's Poetics than John Gotti .
From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 03 December 2002 04:42 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
"I call him the feel bad president, because he's all about punishment and death," he said. "It would be a grave mistake to just play him for laughs."

That resonates big time with me.


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 03 December 2002 07:44 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's what common dreams thinks of moron and Canada-US relations:
quote:
Clearly, what Bush would prefer is irrelevant to Canada.

Still, the White House is said to be waiting patiently to deal with Paul Martin as prime minister, a man Bush knows and someone who has close ties to U.S. Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill from their dealings with the G-20 group of international finance ministers.


http://commondreams.org/views02/1129-03.htm

[ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: vaudree ]


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 03 December 2002 07:48 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Here's what common dreams thinks of moron and Canada-US relations:

Except that that's a reprinted Toronto Star piece.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged

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