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» babble   » current events   » national news   » Well, it's you guys that have the f***ing power!

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Author Topic: Well, it's you guys that have the f***ing power!
Apemantus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1845

posted 02 September 2002 01:50 PM      Profile for Apemantus        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Our house is burning down and we're blind to it," French President Jacques Chirac

AGRICULTURAL SUBSIDIES

South African President Thabo Mbeki opened the final phase of the 10-day meeting, calling on delegates to "set concrete goals and targets" to help developing countries.

AIDS

UN Secretary General Kofi Annan said the race for growth was leading mankind down a "dead end" and urged rich countries to lead the way towards saving the planet.

WELL, YOU HEAD THE WORLD BODY!

UK Prime Minister Tony Blair called for the industrialised world to open its markets to developing countries, particularly in agriculture.

AGRICUTURAL SUBSIDIES, KISSING US ASS!

German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder urged all countries to ratify the Kyoto Protocol on global warming so that it can be implemented by the end of this year.

Dunno!! Probably agriculture?

Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien said Canada would vote on ratifying the protocol by the end of 2002.

WELL, GET ON WITH RATIFYING IT!

Fucking politicians, they say it, they know it...

SO FUCKING DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!


From: Brighton, UK | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2092

posted 03 September 2002 03:06 AM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No doubt, my friend!

Shut up and do your damn job!!

Can you imagine if other employees acted this way? "yeah, boss, I know we were supposed to make that shipment a month ago, but don't worry. Me and the guys are going to have a vote on whether we should start loading it probably next week. Maybe the week after. But soon, trust me."


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
quelar
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2739

posted 03 September 2002 09:57 AM      Profile for quelar     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Absolutely,

All I'm hoping for now is those guys with Power on their way out (Chretien) decide to use it for good for a change.

Kyoto is one small step, let's hope the boy goes "crazy" and implements all sorts of environmental initiatives.


From: In Dig Nation | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 03 September 2002 10:15 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, we can only hope. While Ralphie-boy takes him to court on every last one of them, despite the fact that, according to his own government's survey, 72% of Albertans want Kyoto ratified. I'm still stunned (and very happy) about that one.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
NDB
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1234

posted 03 September 2002 12:52 PM      Profile for NDB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Don't worry within a few months of Johnny C actually trying to do anything the real power will have performed "regime change" in Canada, removed Jean and installed Chancellor Manley. They're already moments from peacefully walking troops across the border, and now they're negotiating directly with provincial governments about softwood lumber. Who's screwed? We're screwed.
From: Ottawa | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Apemantus
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Babbler # 1845

posted 03 September 2002 01:01 PM      Profile for Apemantus        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Watched a whole programme with Bjorn Lomberg (Skeptical Environmentalist) last night and it certainly gave some food for thought. It seems that for the cost of implementing Kyoto for one year, fresh clean water could be provided to everyone in the world (I think the figure was $350 billion p.a.). Though I must admit my original idea of him was very negative, having watched him for an hour discussing some of what he sees as rigid ideological views of the Greens, I could see that he definitely has a point, which is not anti-environment at all, but for instance, he said ratification and implementation of Kyoto, all other things being equal, would delay the rise in temperature by a decade or something and cost trillions over the century. He wondered did it not make more sense to get the developing countries developed ASAP (rather than forcing them to cut pollution) as once a nation has industrialised, then they tend to worry more and do more about the environment (though he seemed not to discuss the US at this point, so how valid that is worldwide, I am not sure, but London now has cleaner air than it has ever had since records began in the late 1600s).
From: Brighton, UK | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
hibachi
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Babbler # 956

posted 03 September 2002 01:12 PM      Profile for hibachi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the people who go on about the cost of implementing Kyoto are delivering a red herring.

What is the cost of NOT implementing Kyoto? WHen you factor it all in, the effect on Canada's trillion-dollar annual economy may be $25 billion over 20 years, i.e. negligible.

In Toronto, over 1000 people die from smog every year. Unless you want to go totally cigarette-company Malthusian, you have to factor that in as a cost of NOT implementing Kyoto.

In Alberta, of course, Kyoto is a plot cooked up by Eastern Canadian interests especially to screw Alberta. The fact that Alberta is turning into a wasteland polluted by oil and porcine excrement is not lost on the 72% there who want Kyoto ratified.

If this is so, why do they continue to elect Ralph Klein?


From: Toronto, Ont. | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Apemantus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1845

posted 03 September 2002 01:35 PM      Profile for Apemantus        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's a fair point, but I think the point that Lomberg is making, and I believe he may be an economist, is that the cost of implementation which globally (because Kyoto hurts the industrialising developing countries much more than the post-industrial West) amounts to a huge amount has to be weighted against the cost of not implementing and then spending that money on other things instead (like clean fresh water to the whole world - one year's worth of Kyoto)

In addition (and this is from memory so I may be wrong), he was saying that this huge cost delays global warming of an extra 6 degrees by a decade rather than permanently. His argument is that it makes more sense to let nations industrialise at full tilt, use some of the money generated to good use on other projects and then once these nations have industrialised, they will, like the West, care more about their environment. It seemed from what he was saying that Kyoto's cost is mostly borne by the developing world, the ones who most need to be able to pollute.


From: Brighton, UK | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
quelar
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2739

posted 03 September 2002 05:18 PM      Profile for quelar     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The first world cares more about the environment?

Is that why we're all the second largest per capita polluter in the world?

He's right, the money COULD be better spent on water, but WOULD it?

Probably not.

Have to start somewhere.


From: In Dig Nation | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Apemantus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1845

posted 03 September 2002 05:43 PM      Profile for Apemantus        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Indeed, but the political effort required to not only ratify Kyoto but also achieve its targets is at least as equal as would be required to do other things. The problem, as Lomberg sees it, is more that some green mantras have become so accepted that to actually discuss them let alone argue against them is seen as heresy and so everyone ploughs on with Kyoto like it is the only show in town (and maybe it is, I do accept that, but no-one even discusses that much). But there is a potential discussion to be had about whether Kyoto is the best way to go, considering the huge amount of work it entails politically and the fact that the country it is most aimed at is the one least likely to do anything about it.
From: Brighton, UK | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged

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