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Author Topic: Drugs and Terror and Teens and Death and Booze
apple of Eris
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posted 11 February 2002 07:54 PM      Profile for apple of Eris     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Published on Saturday, February 9, 2002 by Common Dreams
Drugs and Terror and Teens and Death and Booze: Contradictions Dominate Super Bowl’s Commercial Breaks
by Dennis Hans
Read Here


Funny, the local radio station that's usually playing where I work, often plays anti-ecstasy and anti-marijuana adds, followed by adds for The Bartenders School of America or any number of concerts sponsored by Miller Beer.


From: USA | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
SHH
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posted 11 February 2002 09:28 PM      Profile for SHH     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Whoops. I thought this was the Axle of Elvis thread. But since I'm here, I'll have another hit just to stay in the "spirit" of things.
From: Ex-Silicon Valley to State Saguaro | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
SamL
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posted 11 February 2002 09:46 PM      Profile for SamL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh well. . .based on my three years experience living in NJ, isn't that just the good ol' all-American way of doing things? Make sure to tell the kids at home that (blank) is bad for them, but not until you've taken money to advertise (blank)'s cousin (blankII). There's "laissez-faire" government for you. If only the Republicans could bring themselves to interfere more in American lives where they should. . . *sigh*
From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Markbo
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posted 11 February 2002 09:52 PM      Profile for Markbo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
comparing Heroine and Alcohol?

I heard one addict say that Heroine is a religous experience, every day she prayed for death.

How many have used alcohol in their teen years and grown up fine?

How many have used heroine in their teen years and grown up?

What is the author's message here? That the ONDCP was wrong to attack narcotics while alcohol is still around?

Was it that by being a law abiding taxpayer you are no better than a drug dealer?

This author probably doesn't know what his message is aside from criticising Bush.


From: Windsor | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
nate
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posted 12 February 2002 10:18 AM      Profile for nate     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The main criticism of the Super Bowl anti-drug ads is that they widely miss the mark.

The ads imply that teenagers smoking pot in their basement are somehow funding international terrorism.

This, despite the fact that the majority of marijuana consumed in the U.S. is either homegrown, or comes from Canada or Mexico. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Osama bin Laden does not have terrorist operations running out of Vancouver.

Secondly, if you want to follow this kind of reasoning to its logical conclusion, it might be an idea to ditch your SUVs and other gas-guzzling vehicles. Oil, after all, funds "international terrorism" as much as "drugs" do. Libya, Saudia Arabia and Iraq are heavily dependnt on oil revenues.

Thirdly, the only reason dope is a lucrative business for terrorists is because it's illegal.

Heard of many international terror organizations raising funds by selling booze lately?

Eliminate the profit motive that goes with black market drugs, and you eliminate a major funding source for criminals and terrorists alike.

British authorities seemed to have realized this, and are proposing a massive expansion of heroin prescription trials.

Such a trial would mean junkies could legally buy their fix at the local pharmacies, instead of stealing from you and me to get money for overpriced dope on the black-market.

You can say what you want about the "morality" of such a scheme, but it is a fast and easy way to reduce both street crime and organized crime in one swift blow.

Nate H.
Toronto, ON


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 12 February 2002 11:33 AM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nate, I don't know what your other posts are like, but, well, will you marry me? I mean, I've already got a husband, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind, you could stay in the spare room....

I'm okay now.

Seriously, I couldn't agree with you more. I totally see Marbo's point on heroine and booze, but I don't think that's what the "war on drugs" is really focussing on.

And yes, if we made peanuts and beer illegal tommorrow, the criminal element -by default- would pick up the torch and supply it by Thursday. It just seems so simple, I've decided that the "War on Drugs" movement must be corrupt and self-defeating and not interested in listening to reason.


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Croesus_Krept
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posted 12 February 2002 11:46 AM      Profile for Croesus_Krept   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
a little old president gets up on the podium...

"Heroin, it's a drug... Alcohol, it's a drug. Marijuana is a drug, too. And you know what?
I like them all..."

This whole thing about drugs and the war on
drugs is all such absolute nonsense... There
should be a war on killing people. But there are
too many sides to America's activities outside
it's borders that just won't get any prime
time, kiddies...... People in America turn
on their diptube and believe it all... Christ,
you can get a teenage bronze of a girl to do
anything you want nowadays. If you have the
balls, or I suppose, the drugs... You can take all the dummy crims you want and put them on trial... But that won't stop me from doing what I want to do. I don't know about you guys, but that's it... You can pretty well conclude that drugs to excess are all bad. But a drug used for pleasure or inspiration can be quite effective. I know from experience.

F--- this. Legalism and material equal the boring
death of our civilization... And who gives a
shit?

Dangerous drugs? What is dangerous is telling
people how to live and what to believe...

Smoke, drink and be merry...

cccccccccurrrrrrrrrsssssssssses


From: Taiwan | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 12 February 2002 11:49 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
How many have used heroine in their teen years and grown up?

I have a few friends who have pulled this off, actually.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Croesus_Krept
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posted 12 February 2002 11:57 AM      Profile for Croesus_Krept   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wanted to... but couldn't find any...
but you can mail order poppy seeds, if you like.
i'll stick with "soft stuff." It's great, so
long as someone doesn't decide to tell you
to dry up... The brutal mind, obsessed with
wrong ideas -- she is as terrific a despot as
the physical appetite, charlie boy!

knyuck, knyuck...

kachunk kachunk

drop another coin in my heart, darling...


From: Taiwan | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
nate
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posted 12 February 2002 02:36 PM      Profile for nate     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey, Trinnity

I'll check with my wife to see if a second marriage is kosher with her. Then I'll get back to you.

Nate


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 12 February 2002 03:32 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Talking about drugs, this is a bit wierd:

Christians for Cannabis

I, of course, post a disclaimer here. I am in no way supporting or encouraging the use of drugs.


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 12 February 2002 03:45 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
How many have used heroine in their teen years and grown up?


I used heroin as a teenager. Now at 50, I sometimes just drink too much.

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: oldgoat ]


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clockwork
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posted 12 February 2002 03:50 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well there you go! Heroin is a gateway drug to alcohol!
From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Debra
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posted 12 February 2002 03:53 PM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
hibachi
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posted 12 February 2002 04:00 PM      Profile for hibachi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Although marijuana is less harmful than other drugs, I don't think that makes it good. There can be psychological problems from chronic long term usage including depression and delusions. The trick is probably moderation, even for this 'harmless' drug.
From: Toronto, Ont. | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 12 February 2002 04:08 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I believe we should be putting steroids in the water instead of fluoride.
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 12 February 2002 04:34 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As long as they find a way to get the bleach out of the water.

The biggest form of drug abuse right now is involuntary solvent abuse. And when you have mood swings during withdrawal you don't know what is happening because you didn't realize that you took anything. Maybe heroin, pot and booze are just our way of self-medicating to deal with chemical withdrawal.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Markbo
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posted 12 February 2002 06:38 PM      Profile for Markbo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Secondly, if you want to follow this kind of reasoning to its logical conclusion, it might be an idea to ditch your SUVs and other gas-guzzling vehicles. Oil, after all, funds "international terrorism" as much as "drugs" do. Libya, Saudia Arabia and Iraq are heavily dependnt on oil revenues.

Now thats an excellent point. I've embolded it simply because it was the only way to improve on this point.

quote:
h a trial would mean junkies could legally buy their fix at the local pharmacies, instead of stealing from you and me to get money for overpriced dope on the black-market.

Eliminate the profit motive that goes with black market drugs, and you eliminate a major funding source for criminals and terrorists alike.

British authorities seemed to have realized this, and are proposing a massive expansion of heroin prescription trials.
[/B]

I have to completely disagree, Unless you only read the part about heroine being a religous experience and not the part about most users praying for death. I can't believe any rational person would enable a person to suffer that much by continual unrestricted use of Heroine.

[QUOTE]
You can say what you want about the "morality" of such a scheme, but it is a fast and easy way to reduce both street crime and organized crime in one swift blow.


Yeah but how many thousands or tens of thousands of people would you condemn to heroine to achieve your goals.

Your right I can and will say what I want about the morality of this "Legalizing pot is one thing.
Legalizing heroine is the most immoral act I have heard of"

Oldgoat, how would your life be different if you had continued to use heroine? Why did you quit?
Speaking from experience, do you think its wise to legalize it?


From: Windsor | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Secret Agent Style
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posted 12 February 2002 07:24 PM      Profile for Secret Agent Style        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't think anyone is saying that using heroin is a good thing, but rather that making it illegal causes more harm than good.

Drugs should be treated as a health issue, not a moral or criminal one.

I don't think more people would start taking heroine just because they can get it in a regulated, safe environment, administered by a doctor or nurse. It's not like legalizing it will make it available at the corner store.

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Andy Social ]


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Markbo
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posted 12 February 2002 11:15 PM      Profile for Markbo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I don't think anyone is saying that using heroin is a good thing, but rather that making it illegal causes more harm than good.
Drugs should be treated as a health issue, not a moral or criminal one.

I don't think more people would start taking heroine just because they can get it in a regulated, safe environment, administered by a doctor or nurse. It's not like legalizing it will make it available at the corner


Actually in countries like Australia it is avalable at the corner in Kings Cross, I've seen it. The Prostitutes all wore gloves past their elbo's. Naive as I was, I thought it was some kind of fashion statement until I saw one girls arm. I thought the red light district bars would be a cool place to go in Sidney. It was a horror show watching the junkies suffered.

The clinic handed out safe needles, made it easier for these girls to continue their lives, their suffering. Thats when I started donating to Servants Anonymous in Calgary. These people help girls get off the street. I hold them as experts on how to help heroine addicts.

I think it is far more cruel to prolong the lives of heroine addicts at the cost of saving one life of people who may quit due to the difficulties they may face


From: Windsor | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 13 February 2002 05:47 AM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I used heroine recreationally for about a year or more and I'm doing peachy now, thanks.

The reason I stopped wasn't because I was getting in too deep or because it was killing me (it was an unhealthy practice but for the record, it felt kinder to my body than the few times I tried nicotine). I stopped because I really didn't enjoy it much.

It might also interest you to know that I had a friend who died from a heroine overdose, and I don't blame the drug for killing her. Y'see, she had problems -she carried around a lot of pain and she dealt with it by using drugs. Once she hit upon it, heroine became her drug but she was always an abuser. If she didn't kill herself with smack she could have done it with alcohol -she could have done it with prescription drugs -hell, she could have become brain-damaged by huffing spray paint.

I've known a few heroine addicts and what I can tell you about them is that they are not everyday people who are caught in the clutches of the drug. They are very unhappy people turning to a painkiller for solace in a world where they can find none.

When my friend went to a detox to seek help, she found an administration vastly out of touch with her experiences, and fellow addicts who became new drug-buddies. Perhaps a society geared more towards healing addicts rather than punishing them would have helped her recover. On the other hand maybe there was nothing anyone could have done.

Myself and my other friends stopped using heroine before her overdose. It was ceasing to be enjoyable, made one nauseous, and was probably making us depressed.

What I believe is that we just weren't unhappy enough to take to heroine. It was nice as a novelty but we got better highs from healthier pursuits. Attacking the drug is a red herring. If you want to tackle addiction (of all kinds) then give addiction-prone individuals the support they need to overcome their proplems.

P.S. About the drug war, it has nothing to do with drugs and everything to do with controlling people. Fringe elements and countercultures always are drug-users of the consciousness-expansion variety, all of which are illegal. These anti-drug laws preserve the status quo, allowing arrests, appropriations, raids, etc, of anywhere that culture is escaping from its designated bounds.

It also creates a lucrative industry in imprisonment, making money from locking men and women in cages for smoking, sniffing, or shooting "forbidden substances". The US has a larger percentage of its populace in prison than any other country and a stunning 80% of those are in on drug charges in part or in full. It's also worth noting that the prison lobby is the biggest in america, larger than oil, insurance, or anyone else. Basically they are pushing for draconian laws in order to criminalize essentially innocent people, and thereby fill their prisons. Ah, capitalism at work.

Getting tough on drugs just means getting tough on the people who use them, and when you do that you're admitting that you see these people as an enemy who must be crushed.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
uh clem
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posted 13 February 2002 06:03 AM      Profile for uh clem   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I don't blame the drug for killing her. Y'see, she had problems -she carried around a lot of pain and she dealt with it by using drugs.

Amen! Having worked with druggies of various flavours over the years, drug addiction is almost always a symptom rather than a cause. Legalization has been tried in various countries : Holland with marihuana, for example, and use has dropped. This is mythological and common sense: you forbid something (apple, Garden) and you make it more appealing. Would you suddenly try heroin if it were legal? The answer is unlikely to be different from your current usage pattern.

And people, please: heroine is a female hero. Heroin is a narcotic drug.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 13 February 2002 09:12 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Truly eloquent, JTT.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
nate
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posted 13 February 2002 10:03 AM      Profile for nate     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
First off, the word is "heroin" not "heroine" (the latter is a female hero).

One of the main motivations for European cities launching "needle rooms" (locations where addicts can fix under medically supervised conditions) and prescription heroin programs is to get junkies in touch w/the mainstream medical services.

Another motivation is to get these people off the streets, and out of the alleys.

Perhaps the biggest motivation, however, is to reduce the incidence of blood-borne HIV (a disease passed around when addicts "swap needles" - a common occurence when even syringes are illegal in some quarters).

A final motivation is to reduce street crime and organized crime in one fell swoop. Eliminate the profit motive for black market heroin, and you eliminate a major source of organized crime. Give addicts what they want, and they no longer have to hustle, steal or break into your car to get enough money to buy overpriced junk from criminal dealers.

Does the idea of maintaining someone's addiction, perhaps for the rest of their life, bother me?

A little, but no more than the notion that bars and liquor stores perpetuate alcoholism, or convenience stores perpetuate nicotine addiction.

The idea of condemning heroin addicts, who find it almost impossible to quit using drugs, to a life of poverty, squalor, crime, prostitution and violence against you and me seems far worse than just giving them access to what they want.

Switzerland, which has been leading the way on drug reform programs, found that crime dropped, employment rose and the level of blood-borne HIV infection decreased, after allowing addicts legal access to heroin prescriptions.

Frankfurt, Germany experienced a sharp decline in drug overdoses after introducing needle rooms. And, street addicts began leaving the street.

In the past few years, Holland and Spain have also launched heroin prescription programs, with Germany soon to follow.

In Great Britain, top level politicians and even the police are calling for a massive expansion in heroin prescription programs.

Oh, and Canada will be joining these nations soon, just so you know.

Nate H.
Toronto, ON


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 13 February 2002 11:23 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Prison Keynesianism - just thought I'd weigh in here with some off-the-cuff numbers and some comments.

(And yes, I chose that title because it *is* a rather bizarre misuse of Keynesian principles)


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
apple of Eris
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posted 13 February 2002 07:32 PM      Profile for apple of Eris     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Jacob Two Two, you hit the nail square with you post except when you said

“”Ah, capitalism at work.””

In a Capitalist system there would be no War on Drugs.


From: USA | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
dee
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posted 13 February 2002 07:46 PM      Profile for dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Could you explain that, please, since the USA has a capitalist system and a War on Drugs?
From: pleasant, unemotional conversation aids digestion | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
apple of Eris
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posted 13 February 2002 09:17 PM      Profile for apple of Eris     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The US is not Capitalist, its what is often called “Mixed Economy” or as I like to call it Corporate Authoritarian Socialism. In a Capitalist system no one would be allowed to vote away the rights of others or redistribute wealth to whoever gave the greatest campaign contributions.

Speaking of money in politics, we know how much Prison corporations give to insure a steady influx of new inmates, ever wonder how much Organized Crime gives, to insure the product remains illegal and very profitable??


The Democratic Party's Presidential Drug Money Pipeline


From: USA | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pimji
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posted 13 February 2002 10:58 PM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's hard to top that Apple.

What Jacob Two-Two said.

What Jacob Two-Two said.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that there is not one person on this board who has not been affected by drug or alcohol abuse. Be it a family member, friend or yourself.

We live in a very addictive culture that preaches want. Much of advertising system is based on making us believe we [B]need[B] something to make us feel better or to make us whole again. As if we were deficient to begin with.

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: Pimji ]


From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 13 February 2002 11:06 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Oldgoat, how would your life be different if you had continued to use heroine? Why did you quit?
Speaking from experience, do you think its wise to legalize it?

In my post to which you are referring, I was obviously being a bit of a smartass about a serious topic. That wasn't a great time in my life, and I was engaging in worse things than smack, which I didn't actually do much. Personally, I think acid and speed are much more dangerous. I'm not naturally given to moderation like Jacob Tx2. Wide open legalization would be, in my mind just plain nuts, but I don't think anyones suggesting that. It's more trying to find a treatment approach that is as effective as possible under realistic circumstanses.

Some of the initiatives referred to above such as prescribing a narcotic, and needle exchange programmes, may seem counter-intuitive at best, but they are showing better results than the legal sanction route, based on solid empirical data. (I know you're going to ask for the stats, but it will take me a while to find.)

Needle exchange programmes are more to interdict HIV and Hep, than offered as a solution to drug addiction. They've been shown to be effective, and are endorsed by the Center for Disease Control. Where needle exchange programmes can help street addicts is by having a trusted point of contact if they ever do decide to take the step of talking to someone. Addicts can recover, but HIV will eventually kill. Contagion is also an issue.

Most of these programmes are based on what is called a harm reduction model of treatment. There is a huge amount of literature on this. Coincidentally, my employer is having me trained in addictions counselling by the Center for Addictions and Mental Health (CAMH), and I'm a bit more than halfway through the course. It's so we can deal more effectively with concurrant addictions and mental health issues.

The harm reduction approach was very controversial when it first came on the scene over 10 years ago, and it still has it's critics. It's more accepted in alchohol treatment, but with illegal narcotics treatment, best clinical practices often conflict with current legal practices. I see this as working itself out over time.

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: oldgoat ]


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
apple of Eris
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posted 13 February 2002 11:20 PM      Profile for apple of Eris     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
oldgoat just curious why do you think acid is worse the heroin?
From: USA | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jo Jo
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posted 13 February 2002 11:31 PM      Profile for Jo Jo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Geez, this is an interesting one.

The depth of effect drug use has on society goes on and on. I'm thinking less of the use by individuals and more about the effects on communities.

There are many communities in rural BC that are centers of marijuana cultivation. (not the green leaf kind that many of us knew when we were younger). Marijuana now is very big bucks. Worth lots and lots of money - usually US MONEY. The effect on communities of 'grow ops'is very complex. And mostly toxic.

From organized crime moving in, to kids dropping out of school 'cause they can make TONS of money growing pot, so why do they need to go to school, to whole segments of a community who do not get in volved in the community and could care less about community, to paranoia, to theft, to unreported assaults, etc. etc. I think you get my drift.

I support legalizing (and taxing by the way) the marijuana industry.


From: BC | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 13 February 2002 11:35 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
QUOTE: "oldgoat just curious why do you think acid is worse the heroin? "
.....................

Purely subjective experience. I had some pretty negative reactions to acid, and it brought me a little closer to the face of psychosis than I wanted to be. Some people I know could take it recreationally with no ill effects. In my case it was a transient unpleasentness, but with some others it caused permanent damage. Heroin, if it is of good quality, and properly mixed is predictable. With acid even good stuff can take you places you didn't expect or wish to go.

Also, from what I gather, I don't think what passes for acid today is as powerful as what was around in the late '60s

Edited to ask.... BTW, are those two blue emoticoms really there?

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: oldgoat ]

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: oldgoat ]


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 14 February 2002 11:16 AM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it will happen pretty quickly too.

It has to be legalization though, not just decriminalization of small amounts like some private members bills have been advocating. Decrim. would have the opposite effect.

The Senate committee's have been looking at our drug laws for MONTHS now. They've been talking with experts from all over the place, especially Europe. Only one police association is opposed to it, and they are chronically falling into lock-step with the American War on Drugs... I don't think they were listened to as much as the others.

I think this is finally going to be one time that Canada will go against the US wishes. There's way too much money saving and making at stake. I don't know when, but I think it will happen.


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130

posted 15 February 2002 12:48 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Trinitty, I'm not sure what you mean by the difference between legalisation and decriminalisation. Also, I'm not sure if you're differentiating between the different drugs that are discussed above.

Are you equating speed and cannibis? I was talking mainly about hard drugs, and/or when a consumer or those around him/her are identifying an addictions issue.


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
nate
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 661

posted 15 February 2002 09:26 AM      Profile for nate     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Decriminalization usually refers to a system where simple possession of drugs remains an offence, but a very low-level one, punishable by a small fine.

12 U.S. states, for example, have decriminalized possession of marijuana.

Legalization refers to the regulated sale of a legal product, like alcohol.

Then you get really complicated, and get systems such as "de facto" legalization - which is what is happening in Holland: there are still laws on the books against marijuana possession and low-level sales, but they are rarely enforced.

Nate H.


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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