babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » current events   » national news   » GWB as a labor negotiater is a past life

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: GWB as a labor negotiater is a past life
vaudree
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1331

posted 21 September 2001 12:31 AM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Or picture this - GWB as a marriage councelor.

I can understand negotiating and saying that if you don`t negotiate in good faith I got a ship full of soldiers crazed with anger ready to go - but my way or the highway, get real. I know there are things that must be done, but if he asked of Canada what he just asked of Afganistan with no discussion - would we comply? Should we comply?

If Bush came into Canada and asked us to hand over Jaggi Singh - Ok that is a bit far fetched, but I can understand Afganistan trying to insist that the guy get a fair trial. If the guy dies, they got to justify it to their citizens. If the guy ends up sharing a cell with Milosovitz, it is in all our best interests that very few in the area can consider it a kangaroo court. Appologies extended to all Autralians who probably call it a beaver court or something like that.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Markbo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 124

posted 21 September 2001 12:41 AM      Profile for Markbo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I believe the Pakistan government gave them three days previous to the President Bush's threat. That was their chance to dialogue.
They basically rejected the more reasonable demand they received three days ago. The new ultimatums were really just an announcement of U.S. intentions. Every major news analyst saw it that was as well.

P.S. at what point in time did the U.S. imply that Bin Laden would not recieve a fair trial? He probably would have hired the "dream team" to defend him.

[ September 21, 2001: Message edited by: Markbo ]


From: Windsor | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 690

posted 21 September 2001 01:27 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was under the impression that the clerics in Afghanistan all decided that bin Laden could leave “voluntarily”. The “experts” I heard all basically said that this meant that wanted bin Laden out.
However, this was subject to the head cleric guy.
Part of me says that you can’t expect much more. Part of me says that Bush’s demands were designed to be unreasonable. I learned about ultimatums in history class, and none of them we studied seemed designed for compliance. In other words, Bush has a plan.

Hey, did you notice that Britain is Bush’s new friend? Did you notice the Hitler reference?


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1387

posted 21 September 2001 01:45 AM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, maybe we should hand over Jaggi Sighn.(sp?) Anyone who constructs a make shift catapult to hurl objects with intent to vandalize property or hurt people for their own cause (minute compared to the WTC attacks) is a threat to public safety. People like him discredit socialists causes and most of society writes off these groups as a bunch of idiots. If I was at a demonstration and some idot made something like that, I'd be ashamed that like minded people would want to willfully hurt others or property for their "righteous" cause.
From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 21 September 2001 09:22 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Teddy bears? A catapult for teddy bears is going to damage property?
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jake
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 390

posted 21 September 2001 10:09 AM      Profile for Jake     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
>>>P.S. at what point in time did the U.S. imply that Bin Laden would not recieve a fair trial? He probably would have hired the "dream team" to defend him.<<<

Markbo

Do you think Noriega (sp) got a fair trial?
Perhaps the "dream team" was busy elsewhere at the time.

Jake


From: the recycling bin | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Markbo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 124

posted 21 September 2001 10:28 AM      Profile for Markbo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Do you think Noriega was innocent?
From: Windsor | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 21 September 2001 11:46 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Under our law (and US law) a person in the accused box is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

The presumption of guilt, which is what you just did, Markbo, goes precisely against your statment "Well, he'll have the best lawyers."

Meanwhile, you're turning around, winking, and telling us all the fix is in because it is PRESUMED that the accused is guilty before the prosecutor ever gets up to make the opening statement.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 21 September 2001 11:57 AM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think Bush would have made a terrible labour negotiator. It's quite foolish to go into such negotiations talking about "non-negotiable demands." It would leave you no face-saving way to compromise.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Markbo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 124

posted 21 September 2001 12:15 PM      Profile for Markbo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I dunno, look at Reagan with the air traffic controllers.

P.S. If we're using your analogy as to a court of law. Then we're talking about a suspect resisting arrest and making death threats against us at the same time. Just like any other murder suspect, using force to apprehend a murder suspect who has made death threats is very reasonable.


From: Windsor | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1331

posted 21 September 2001 03:43 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I`d like to see Canada and the UK team up and make similar demands of the US

- deliver the leaders of al Qaida who are hiding in the U.S.A
- release all foreign nationals
- protect all foreign diplomats, journalists and aid workers
- close permanently all terrorist camps
- hand over every terrorist to appropriate authorities
- give Canada and the UK full access to terrorist training camps

You can`t hand over every terrorist anyway - you have to know for sure a person is a terrorist to hand them over. I expected something for catching the terrorists similar to the transboundary child support enforcement laws.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Slick Willy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 184

posted 21 September 2001 03:50 PM      Profile for Slick Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I`d like to see Canada and the UK team up and make similar demands of the US

Or else what?


From: Hog Heaven | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Markbo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 124

posted 21 September 2001 05:39 PM      Profile for Markbo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fine, but maybe you should be focusing on the Talebans counter offer. I believe it was a big fat NOTHING.

We all know that that ultimatum was simply posturing. They had a chance at a real offer of turning Bin Laden over three days ago. They didn't make a reasonable counter offer so the U.S. has now resorted to their BATNA

Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement
The problem lies is that when negotiating you should understand the other sides BATNA. The side with the best BATNA usually negotiates an agreement that favours their demands.

What Afghanistan failed to realize is that the U.S. actually preferred their BATNA to a negotiated agreement. What was the Taleban's BATNA?I believe it was something like pointing a gun at their own head and saying stop or we'll shoot.

[ September 21, 2001: Message edited by: Markbo ]


From: Windsor | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 21 September 2001 05:53 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Well, maybe we should hand over Jaggi Sighn.(sp?) Anyone who constructs a make shift catapult to hurl objects with intent to vandalize property or hurt people for their own cause (minute compared to the WTC attacks) is a threat to public safety. People like him discredit socialists causes and most of society writes off these groups as a bunch of idiots. If I was at a demonstration and some idot made something like that, I'd be ashamed that like minded people would want to willfully hurt others or property for their "righteous" cause.

How right you are! Most people are unaware just how dangerous teddy bears are. You know, a lose thread could accidently wrap around the throat casuing strangulation. Or a panic could be set in motion as a result of incoming teddy bears resulting in trampling.
It is all fun and games, y'know, until someone loses an eye.

But of course, Jagi Singh has not been convicted of anything from the Quebec demo. Yet some idiots would convict him from what they have read in the paper. I wouldn't want to be one of those idiots.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
judym
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 29

posted 21 September 2001 05:59 PM      Profile for judym   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is too funny.
From: earth | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1331

posted 22 September 2001 11:57 AM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This one was started first.
From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1331

posted 22 September 2001 12:26 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Judy, You`ll like this.

quote:
Thom Hartmann: The Vermont Teddy Bear Company, the only remaining teddy bear company that still manufacturers in the United States, is sending Teddy Bears to the families of the 500 or so firefighters and police officers who died in the WTC collapse. At their site, you can add your name and city to one of the cards that go along with the bears.
They are NOT asking for money, and NOT asking for your email address. Be VERY WARY of any prayer list, petition, etc., that asks for your email address (they're resellable to spammers for big bucks and most petition sites make their money that way). In this case the Vermont Teddy Bear Company is bearing (no pun intended) all the expenses themselves. But putting the names of people and messages from people into the cards adds extra meaning and they don't have enough employees to fill out one to a card. So you can put your thoughts on a card, too. No cost, no email address required, and totally aboveboard. (What a breath of fresh air after all the hucksters who this tragedy has brought out of the woodwork.)

Anyhow, the website is http://www.vermontteddybear.com



From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Markbo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 124

posted 22 September 2001 10:09 PM      Profile for Markbo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You moderaters have a tough time staying on target. I expected some sort of rebuttal to my BATNA post.
From: Windsor | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca