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Author Topic: Rabble folk give credibility to Felton and Elmasry
ohara
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7961

posted 23 August 2008 11:16 AM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A friend in British Columbia tells me that Rabble editor Derrick O'Keefe appeared at a forum with Mohammad Elmasry and Greg Felton.


I am frankly shocked that Derrick would give credibility to Elmasry who claimed every Israeli over 18 was a credible target to be killed and Felton just a plain old fashioned anti-Semite (just go to his site which because of its disturbing content I will not provide a link but I will give you a link to Terry Glavin's blog.
He wrote a very instructive piece on Felton.

Terry Glavin

Is there any explanation.

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: ohara ]


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 23 August 2008 11:24 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
A friend in British Columbia tells me that Rabble editor Derrick O'Keefe appeared at a forum with Mohammad Elmasry and Greg Felton.

Wow, really? You mean it wasn't the rabble weekly announce that told you about it yesterday?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 23 August 2008 11:30 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nothing like a little guilt by association to liven things up, eh?
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
ohara
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7961

posted 23 August 2008 11:33 AM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Guilt by association..give me a break!! Felton is vile. Here is another post from Glavin in which he shows how Felton feels Jews of today are all imposters...this by the way is the same argument used by the likes of Keegstra and his loons.

Glavin again

Any reasonable person would never make common cause with the likes of him. Still no explanation then?


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pogge
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Babbler # 2440

posted 23 August 2008 11:38 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm listed on Terry Glavin's blogroll and have been for several years. Does that mean he's giving me credibility? Or am I giving it to him? I get so confused about these things.
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 23 August 2008 11:39 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
Any reasonable person would never make common cause with the likes of him. Still no explanation then?

"Still"? You asked the question, like, 20 minutes ago. What, you think Derrick is on 24 hour call to answer your demands on babble on split second notice?

If your organization wants Derrick to comment immediately, maybe you should have someone give him a call instead of posting anonymous smears on an internet forum.

Speaking of which, isn't it just about time for the cavalry to enter from stage right as reinforcement?


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ohara
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Babbler # 7961

posted 23 August 2008 11:48 AM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nice try Michelle but lets not change direction here to make it about me. The question I ask is legit. This is a discussion board and a Rabble editor appears with the likes of Greg Felton on stage. Sorta like appearing with Keegstra. I'm sure Derrick will explain but what about other babblers do they agree with pogge that its simply "guilt by association"?
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unionist
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Babbler # 11323

posted 23 August 2008 11:55 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ohara, like Glavin, are chronically incapable of distinguishing anti-Zionism from anti-semitism.

I know little about Greg Felton, but I have never once seen an anti-Semitic opinion attributed to him. Perhaps ohara could grace us with a single example? And I don't mean a paraphrase from Glavin, who is a frenzied propagandist - I mean an example from FELTON. And I don't mean something expressing hatred or contempt or scorn for Israel, but rather for the Jewish people.

I hope that's a fairly clear request.

Maybe Felton is an anti-semite. If he is, I will damn him to hell. But show me first.


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remind
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posted 23 August 2008 11:57 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yep, guilt by association and hyperboli seems to be the methodology being used.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 23 August 2008 11:57 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
Nice try Michelle but lets not change direction here to make it about me.

It would be a much more legitimate discussion that way. All we have so far is a second hand, unconfirmed report from an unnamed source that three individuals attended a forum the nature of which hasn't been disclosed to us. We don't know whether any or all of the three were organizers, participants or merely in the audience. (We don't even know if there was an audience.) Nor do we know the subject under discussion at the forum or whether it has relevance at all to your concerns about anti-semitism. We don't even know if any of the three were even aware of any of the others' presence let alone whether they had a group-hug and thereby gave each other credibility.

We do know that you insist on linking to Terry Glavin every five minutes. Since I've read a couple of his pieces that I thought were somewhere between idiotic and hateful I find it shocking that you would give Glavin credibility in this manner and I'd like an explanation.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
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posted 23 August 2008 12:00 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:
It would be a much more legitimate discussion that way. All we have so far is a second hand, unconfirmed report from an unnamed source that three individuals attended a forum the nature of which hasn't been disclosed to us.

Wonder no more. Here's the clip from the rabble announcement that went out yesterday to every single member and supporter of rabble, including every current babbler who hasn't opted out of the weekly announce:

quote:
And, for those of you in Vancouver and nearby, looking for something to do tonight? rabble.ca Editor, Derrick O'Keefe, is joining speakers Dr. M. I. Elmasry and Khurram Awan for a seminar on Islamophobia organized by the Canadian Islamic Congress. Look for more info about this and other progressive events on our What's Up events listing.

From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 23 August 2008 12:03 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And before we start making excuses for Derrick, I want some proof that Felton and Elmasry are "anti-semites".

Elmasry's infamous comment, for which he copiously apologized, was not in the slightest "anti-semitic". It was framed as justification for killing civilians on the grounds that they are subject to compulsory military service.

Ohara's characterization of these two persons is defamatory. Truth is a defence - so show us the truth. Terry Glavin is a pretty pathetic authority in that regard, so let's have some evidence, or a retraction.


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remind
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posted 23 August 2008 12:11 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Personally, I thought Ohara's post and accompanying links were an excellent example of why seminars on Islamophobia, have to happen.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 23 August 2008 12:14 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Wonder no more.

Thank you. I'll confess to being behind in my email. But this still leaves me confused as to the basis for ohara's demand for an explanation. I'm at a loss as to why O'Keefe would be in a position to lend credibility to Elmasry on the subject of Islamophobia given the latter's position in, and knowledge of, Canada's Muslim community.

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: pogge ]


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Cueball
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posted 23 August 2008 12:14 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
I am frankly shocked that Derrick would give credibility to Elmasry who claimed every Israeli over 18 was a credible target to be killed (because they are all members of the IDF reserve by Israeli law) and Felton just a plain old fashioned anti-Semite (just go to his site which because of its disturbing content I will not provide a link but I will give you a link to Terry Glavin's blog.
He wrote a very instructive piece on Felton.

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 23 August 2008 12:19 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Exactly. This feels like the way ohara was all ready to jump on the smear wagon about Omar Alaghabra based on lies spread by the CCD.

Of course, he was forced to back down on that one because the mainstream media exposed it for the lie and the smear that it was.

Someday he might even back down on his smears of Elmasry too based on a comment that he has offered an unqualified apology for making. Let's all hold our breath, shall we?

Alaghabra smear thread

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


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remind
rabble-rouser
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posted 23 August 2008 12:19 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Too be fair cueball, he is "shocked", I tell you, "shocked", and that must account for his inability to perceive things rationally. So really, we must understand how this may influence his opinion that Glavin is a good resource to prove his shockedness is a correct vision of things.
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ohara
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Babbler # 7961

posted 23 August 2008 12:23 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't want to link to Felton so I chose Glavin. There are others. Unionist what is your take on Felton's description of jews as Khazars? Do you not feel his "Zionist conspiracy" crap encorages hatred? Go onto his site and check it out. I will link with one article that mixes all his themes and in the end gives support to Iran's President for his Holocaust denial:

quote:
4. “If someone were to deny the existence of God ... and deny the existence of prophets and religion, they would not bother him. However, if someone were to deny the myth of the Jews’ massacre, all the Zionist mouthpieces and the governments subservient to the Zionists tear their larynxes and scream against the person as much as they can.”
The Holocaust has been so polluted by propaganda that it’s virtually impossible to separate fact from disinformation, so I cannot say for certain if Ahmadinejad is right. For its part, the International Committee of the Red Cross published a three-volume report in 1948 in which it found no evidence of systematic genocide. On the other hand, estimates of Jewish deaths range from 470,000 to 9 million!

I believe Ahmadinejad is wrong to deny the Holocaust outright, but he is right to call into question the dogmatic acceptance of Zionist verities, such as Auschwitz’s Crematorium I, which exists today. As reporter Eric Conan wrote in a lengthy 1995 exposé for France’s L’Express:

“In 1948, when the Museum was created, Crematorium I was reconstructed in a supposed original state. Everything about it is false (Tout y est faux): the dimensions of the gas chamber, the locations of the doors, the openings for pouring in Zyklon B, the ovens (rebuilt according to the recollections of some survivors), the height of the chimney.”

Also, the new plaque at the entrance to Auschwitz reflects the Polish government’s revision of the number of dead from 4 million to 1.5 million. The 4 million figure came from Capt. Rudolph Höss, the camp commandant, whose testimony has been discredited.

Despite the reduction of 2.5 million, the Zionist figure of 6 million is still maintained. Clearly, this number is pure myth, and Ahmadinejad is at least partly right.

Final score: 3.5 out of 4. Excellent!

It seems honesty and courage are Iranian values. Too bad they aren’t Canadian, eh Mr. Martin?


Felton


And remind is right my information is second hand. Perhaps Derrick did not attend the event as told to me or walked away from Felton. I posted what I heard from a secondary source. If I am wrong I unhesitatingly apologize.

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: ohara ]


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 23 August 2008 12:25 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As a journalist, I always think that primary sources are important at times like these. Glavin is not one. (Primary source? Journalist?)

gregfelton.com


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ohara
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7961

posted 23 August 2008 12:27 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
And before we start making excuses for Derrick, I want some proof that Felton and Elmasry are "anti-semites".

Elmasry's infamous comment, for which he copiously apologized, was not in the slightest "anti-semitic". It was framed as justification for killing civilians on the grounds that they are subject to compulsory military service.

Ohara's characterization of these two persons is defamatory. Truth is a defence - so show us the truth. Terry Glavin is a pretty pathetic authority in that regard, so let's have some evidence, or a retraction.



I don't believe I called Elmasry an anti-Semite.

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Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 23 August 2008 12:27 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:
Thank you. I'll confess to being behind in my email. But this still leaves me confused as to the basis for ohara's demand for an explanation. I'm at a loss as to why O'Keefe would be in a position to lend credibility to Elmasry on the subject of Islamophobia given the latter's position in, and knowledge of, Canada's Muslim community.

Sorry, I did figure maybe you weren't getting the rabble announce anymore - I wasn't implying that you should have seen it.

I doubt Derrick was there to "lend credibility" to Elmasry. I'm not sure what his role there was (perhaps as a representative of alternative media or something?) but I'm sure it had something to do with his support for fighting Islamophobia.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 23 August 2008 12:29 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
I'm not sure what his role there was...
...and neither is ohara. Maybe we should wait for ohara to get back to us on that.

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 23 August 2008 12:30 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ohara, if that's the worst you can find, it's little different from Finkelstein - who I'm sure is also called "anti-semite" by the Glavins and Dershowitzes of this world.

Is that the worst? I'm asking, because I don't know Felton's work.


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Cueball
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posted 23 August 2008 12:30 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:

I don't believe I called Elmasry an anti-Semite.

Then what is your problem with people engaging in discussion with him?


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 23 August 2008 12:33 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Sorry, I did figure maybe you weren't getting the rabble announce anymore - I wasn't implying that you should have seen it.

No problem. And the expression of my confusion was directed at ohara.

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: pogge ]


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
ohara
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7961

posted 23 August 2008 12:39 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Unionist again try this one:

quote:
The Jews who perpetrate these atrocities do not kill out of any perceived military threat to Israel; they kill because they are steeped in a toxic culture of Jewish supremacy and anti-Arab hatred. They torture and massacre Arabs, starve them, toy with them, punish them for their birth, and they do so voluntarily, even eagerly, with unsurpassable malice and cruelty.

Like the Nazis, these are men and women who, faithful to their credo of racial superiority, consider the slaughter to be just.


To Felton Israelis are simply identified as "Jews" and the Israeli "Jew" practices a form of Nazi-like "Jewish Supremacy" that in his description is vile by any standards. If that's not enough then we are on truly different worlds.

Felton last time


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pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 23 August 2008 12:43 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
And remind is right my information is second hand. Perhaps Derrick did not attend the event as told to me or walked away from Felton. I posted what I heard from a secondary source. If I am wrong I unhesitatingly apologize.

Making this thread pretty much an exercise in irrelevance. It almost makes me think that getting the accusations about Felton out there was the real point.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
ohara
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7961

posted 23 August 2008 12:45 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Only if in fact this forum did not occur. However even Michelle seems to suggest it did.

Still waiting for that calvary!!


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remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289

posted 23 August 2008 12:58 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:
Making this thread pretty much an exercise in irrelevance. It almost makes me think that getting the accusations about Felton out there was the real point.
Yep, that was my 1st, 2nd and 3rd thoughts, and not just to smear Felton.

From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 23 August 2008 01:14 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes. The other point was to smear rabble and by extension (rabble folk) babblers.

ohara's been on the same trolley tracks for a long time; there'll be a brick wall at some point.

That said: I'm not a fan of Ahmadinejad, and Felton's pretense that anything he has to say about the Holocaust is grounded in the search for truth is ridiculous, and politically naive.

As for this:

quote:
The Jews who perpetrate these atrocities do not kill out of any perceived military threat to Israel; they kill because they are steeped in a toxic culture of Jewish supremacy and anti-Arab hatred. They torture and massacre Arabs, starve them, toy with them, punish them for their birth, and they do so voluntarily, even eagerly, with unsurpassable malice and cruelty.

I will agree it is fairly purple prose, and not exactly illuminating. I've read just as little insight on this site by ohara and friends, however, in regards to Hamas or Islamic Jihad. If this kind of prose is to be considered shamefully verboten, a single standard would have ohara begging clemency of the rabble community.

From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
ohara
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7961

posted 23 August 2008 01:15 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interestingly Felton has been discussed on babble in the past. At that time posters like Wilf day, lagatta, Skdadl all wondered out loud about Felton crossing the line into anti-Semitism. And here is the kicker folks, even Michelle labeled the article referenced in the thread by Diva as "anti-Semitic.

quote:
Wilf Day
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3276
posted 25 November 2004 04:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Briguy:
I haven't read Felton's other 'contributions' because they don't interest me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I refuse to post a link to his own site, and in fact, I would want such a link deleted from Babble. However, you can find it by Googling "Greg Felton" and ignoring the actor and the Irish jazz musician. Lots about the "Jewish Lobby."



_________________________________________________

quote:
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534
posted 25 November 2004 09:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are MANY points I find questionable in the article. To put it mildly, it is creepy. If I were posting it here, I'd make bloody sure there weren't overtly anti-semitic articles on the site.
Macabee, one can be favourably disposed to Israel and concerned about Palestinian human rights. If Mr Cotler is selective in his concern about human rights, that is a problem. I think it is important not to confuse "Israel" with the actions of the Sharon government. To wit:

"Cotler is well aware of his reputation as a pro-Israel advocate, and so in a Dec. 24, 2003, interview with the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz he sought to defuse the issue:
“In Canada, each minister deals exclusively with the matters related to his or her own ministry. Consequently, only the foreign ministry deals with matters related to Israel…I will of course make my views known around the Cabinet table, but the moment the decision is made, or if a policy is determined, it is clear that all members of the cabinet are committed to it.” "

Sometimes one finds much more openness to criticism of Israeli government policy in Ha'aretz than among "pro-Israel" Canadians...

I don't want to pass judgement on the poster on the basis of one post, but please remember that linking to any anti-semitic, anti-Arab or other racist sites is contrary to rabble policy, and in some cases illegal.


_________________________________________________
__

quote:

[QUOTE] skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
posted 25 November 2004 09:32 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, the problem with that article is the article itself, which isn't mainly about Cotler. It is an opinion piece, which in and of itself would be ok, except that it contains this line:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is public knowledge that zionists collaborated with the Nazis to exterminate Yiddisher Jews and prevent them from escaping persecution.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To me, that is over the line, especially with no data at all put before us for general interpretation.

Cotler himself is a different issue. The point about any minister of the Crown is that he/she is a minister of the Crown and we aren't.

He sits at the Cabinet table. Canadians have every right to inquire into partisan positions he may have taken in the past.

Canadians have long had a particular position on Israel / Palestine. They have every right to interrogate anyone who might have the power to help to change that position, and that would include everyone who sits at the Cabinet table


[/QUOTE]_______________________________________________

quote:
Sorry. I missed it too. I was paying more attention to the content of the first post (especially the crap about Cotler's "personal views" that are supposedly more personal than those of the rest of us) than the thread title. And I didn't read the article in question either.
But I noticed that the link has Diva's thread title in it - is it possible she was using the title of the article as her thread title? I don't know since I haven't read the article and there's no way I'm clicking on some link that everyone's saying leads to an antisemitic site from work.

In any case, the thread title is changed.And Diva, could you do us all a big favour and try really hard not to link to antisemitic articles in the future? (my emphasis)


Rabble on Felton

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: ohara ]


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 23 August 2008 01:22 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Still no explanation as to why you're giving Terry Glavin credibility, I see.
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 23 August 2008 01:24 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
Still waiting for that calvary!!

Got a time machine?

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ohara
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7961

posted 23 August 2008 01:25 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I happen to think he is a credible writer. Formerly wrote with Georgia Staright and presently writes for the progressive online mag "The Tyee".

All that said pogge seems (see my last post) that Michelle understood back in 04 when babble last discussed Felton (shouldn't Derrick have known about him from that alone) that his articles (at least the one referenced) was anti-Semitic.


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 23 August 2008 01:27 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Do you seriously believe that each editor who comes to rabble.ca combs through every thread that exists on babble before starting the job?
From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 23 August 2008 01:28 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Derrick should have known about a babble thread from 2004? Dude, Derrick's been the editor of rabble for less than a year! Hell, even the babble MODERATORS don't read every babble thread, or remember all the ones we have read!
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ohara
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7961

posted 23 August 2008 01:28 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

Got a time machine?

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


Doesnt seem that way...so in the immortal words of Reverend Johnston in "Blazing Saddles" you're on your own son

From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
ohara
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7961

posted 23 August 2008 01:29 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Derrick should have known about a babble thread from 2004? Dude, Derrick's been the editor of rabble for less than a year! Hell, even the babble MODERATORS don't read every babble thread, or remember all the ones we have read!

Ok good point. I surrender that one...

From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 23 August 2008 01:41 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
Doesnt seem that way...so in the immortal words of Reverend Johnston in "Blazing Saddles" you're on your own son

Yes, the Son was alone in Calvary...

Sorry, I do this stuff all the time so it's not a malapropism flame. Just having a bit of fun with you.

I just read that old thread. Interesting. I didn't remember this guy's name at all. I haven't read Felton's stuff closely and don't really have time to do it now, so I'll have to comment on what I think of him later.

That said, whether the guy's writing is anti-semitic or not, I doubt Derrick was in charge of who this group asked to speak. And personally, I would consider it more important to speak against Islamophobia than to pull out because of other speakers at an event I didn't organize. I might, depending on who it was.

For instance, if I were the CJC, I might choose not to get involved with events by unapologetic racists like Daniel Pipes. But then again, if Daniel Pipes and I were speakers at an event organized by other people where we were discussing an issue where we happened to share the same point of view, then maybe I wouldn't pull out simply because he was asked to speak too.

I wouldn't, however, organize a press conference for a racist Islamophobe like Pipes. But hey, we all have our blind spots, right?

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 23 August 2008 01:47 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
I happen to think he is a credible writer.

I've seen pieces from him that I didn't much admire but fair enough. This is an actual public expression on your part that you feel Glavin has credibility. Now, can you point to a public expression on Derrick O'Keefe's part that amounts to an expression of respect for, or confidence in, the work Felton's done that you've quoted here? Because the fact that they may have shared a stage, or a room or an ice cream sundae doesn't do it for me. After all, you and I share membership in a discussion forum and in no way shape or form should that be taken as an expression of confidence on my part as to your credibility.

And we haven't even touched issues such as how a single individual became "folk" or whether all of O'Keefe's activities actually reflect on rabble or who made you the Credibility Police anyway or ...


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 23 August 2008 02:06 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You know, the funny thing is, I think a lot of us would be open to discussing whether Felton's work is anti-semitic, and the wisdom of including him at a conference on Islamophobia, if this thread weren't started in the spirit of an attack on rabble's editor. But this is the usual PR leafletting we're used to here, so we all respond in kind.

Speaking of which, Felton is not one of the speakers advertised on any of the advertisements for the event. So if he did speak at it, there is certainly no way that rabble, or rabble's editor, has promoted this person.

Here's the event poster. No mention of Greg Felton.

Some right-wing cheerleader with a blog that I won't link to (no sense giving him higher google rankings - you can probably find him) reports that Felton was a "surprise guest". Perhaps a surprise to Derrick too? Who knows? Smears are so much more enlightening than just asking him. (For your information, ohara, Derrick's e-mail address is editor@rabble.ca if you and your organization are concerned about his conduct in future.)

I have no idea whether Felton is anti-semitic. Sounds like he might be, but then again, it might be more right-wing spin - certainly you and your gang have smeared people with lies in the past based on such flimsy sources as the racist CCD. I'll have to read him sometime and judge for myself.

But if he was a surprise guest and wasn't on any of the publicity for the event, then you can hardly blame Derrick for who the organizers allowed to speak.

I mean, as I said before, it's not like Derrick is putting out press releases for racists like Daniel Pipes on behalf of rabble. Now THAT I would have a HUGE problem with. No organization I'm affiliated with would knowingly do such a thing.

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ohara
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7961

posted 23 August 2008 02:33 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the poster, that Felton appears to have been a last minute addition says much.

Secondly I have never been a fan of Pipes and have made my feelings clear on that. I feel the same way towards Elmasry. However as you have admonished me in the past it is best to stick to the topic at hand rather than try to twist it into something else.

Concentatring on Felton would it be adviseable in the view of others here that progressives not give him the time of day from here on in?

As for Glavin, we will agree to disagree. That progressive journals feel him worthy also tells me much.


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 23 August 2008 02:37 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
Concentatring on Felton ...

Shorter ohara: Now that the premise of my original post has been completely demolished I really will try and change the subject.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 23 August 2008 02:40 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, no, he has a point. This isn't about the CJC and Daniel Pipes. I just wanted to make the point that his organization is certainly not above promoting and supporting racists, as opposed to rabble, which not only didn't promote Felton, but had no idea he was even going to be there. I was making a comparison between the organization ohara has attacked and smeared (ours) and the one he supports.

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 23 August 2008 02:48 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Well, no, he has a point.

When he switches back to Felton, I don't believe he does have a point except to play the guilt by association game all over again. He wants us all to line up and condemn Felton and if we don't, to use his phrase, that will tell him something about us. And if we do, I'm sure he'll be back at a later date with another example for another episode of ritual condemnation. I'm not playing.

I've known who Felton was all along and I have my own opinion about him. But it was irrelevant to the premise of ohara's original post which was that someone at rabble owes him some kind of explanation. I don't think anyone here owes him anything and after today's performance that's even more true.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 23 August 2008 03:07 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:

Then what is your problem with people engaging in discussion with him?


And here's another reasonable question that sits well inside the theme of this thread's original post.

Still, it goes unanswered.


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
jester
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11798

posted 23 August 2008 05:51 PM      Profile for jester        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
Guilt by association..give me a break!! Felton is vile. Here is another post from Glavin in which he shows how Felton feels Jews of today are all imposters...this by the way is the same argument used by the likes of Keegstra and his loons.

Glavin again
Any reasonable person would never make common cause with the likes of him. Still no explanation then?


Since when is Glavin considered 'reasonable'?

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: jester ]


From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 10 September 2008 04:47 AM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmmm, quiet in here!
From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged

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