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Author Topic: cut or uncut?
lagatta
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posted 20 March 2003 08:27 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Any thoughts?
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 20 March 2003 08:32 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Do we get to give personal opinions on which we like better?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
dale cooper
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posted 20 March 2003 08:34 PM      Profile for dale cooper     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am a firm believer that the director should get final say on what their film looks like. I vote for uncut.
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'lance
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posted 20 March 2003 08:35 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Quite so. To a certain limit, films should be bigger, longer, and uncut.
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fatcalf
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posted 20 March 2003 08:35 PM      Profile for fatcalf        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Personally, I like uncut. The buildup to the ending is better -- in fact, the whole experience is longer. Thankfully, Europeans tend to endorse the uncut experience.

We're talking films here, aren't we?


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Michelle
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posted 20 March 2003 08:38 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was going to have my son circumsized, but I never got around to it, and now I'm kind of glad I didn't. The guys I've been with have been cut, so I guess I'm more "used to" the look and prefer it, but I don't have a problem with the "uncut look" I guess.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
dale cooper
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posted 20 March 2003 08:54 PM      Profile for dale cooper     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Um... I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic at hand....

Actually, being of the uncut variety myself, I have to say that I think cutting is barbaric and frightening and extremely wrong. Nature knows what it's doing.


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fatcalf
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posted 20 March 2003 08:56 PM      Profile for fatcalf        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Being cut is kind of cool, aesthetically speaking. Plus it kind of looks like a German World War 2 helmet - bonus!
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Michelle
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posted 20 March 2003 08:58 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ha! Reminds me of a song of "questionable lyrics" where one line went, "Don't buff the German helmet" and was about exactly what you think.
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fatcalf
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posted 20 March 2003 09:02 PM      Profile for fatcalf        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, they used to say women loved a man in "uniform".
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lagatta
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posted 20 March 2003 09:05 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I put this in banter and not body and soul to lighten things up! But needless to say whether one was cut or uncut circa Germany WWII could have dire consequences indeed .

(Michelle knows the inside story about frankfurters and other fauna )


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Michelle
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posted 20 March 2003 09:08 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey, we should see whether there's a correlation between being cut or uncut and wearing boxers or briefs!
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Willowdale Wizard
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posted 20 March 2003 09:09 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
that brings a new level of complexity to the discussion ... as a combo, i prefer cut and briefs.
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Michelle
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posted 20 March 2003 09:14 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
that brings a new level of complexity to the discussion

Just wait till the next thread comes along - we'll be getting out the rulers! (kidding, kidding)


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DrConway
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posted 21 March 2003 01:48 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would suppose that either are acceptable. But it is to be noted that being bigger, longer, and uncut is not a disadvantage.


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Michelle
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posted 21 March 2003 06:49 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've always wondered what the big deal is about it being bigger or longer, myself.
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steffie
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posted 21 March 2003 09:29 AM      Profile for steffie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I used to believe that uncut grew bigger (my experience to that date had confirmed this). Then, I gave birth to a boy and could not fathom committing the atrocity that I saw inflicted on other infant boys. Plus, Daddy was uncut. So, that's my reasoning for that. Since then, I have met the most wonderful man, who completely trashed my cut/uncut theory! He is cut, and... well.. hehehe
So my theory is no longer valid. I'm a bit saddened by this, as it confirms to me that penises are not as easily categorized as I once thought. Personally, though, I can weigh in on one issue. Longer/bigger is better, especially if the owner has limited experience with it. However, size is irrelevent if the owner has mastered the art of giving pleasure to his partner! Wahoo!!

From: What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow / Out of this stony rubbish? | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 21 March 2003 09:50 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think calling male circumcision an "atrocity" is overblown. So is calling it a "genital mutilation" (I know, you didn't call it that, but I've seen others call it that). It doesn't impair the function of the penis, it is pretty much a cosmetic thing, whether done for religious purposes or aesthetics.
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Michelle
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posted 21 March 2003 09:54 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't see how being longer is better. When it comes to intercourse, the further into the vagina you go, the less nerve endings you have (why do you think it is that you can't "feel" a keeper or tampon the further in you push it?). And most women don't climax through intercourse alone anyhow.

I know, apparently some women like the feel of it bumping their cervix. I don't. I find that feels either uncomfortable or it downright hurts. And as for oral sex - well, gag reflex anyone?

I don't know, I think the whole "bigger is better" thing is overrated.


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josh
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posted 21 March 2003 09:56 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have no opinion on the thread question. Having never seen an uncut one in person, nor having had any need to do so, I'll leave it to those more directly affected to comment.
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lagatta
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posted 21 March 2003 10:02 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Josh, not even travelling to Europe ... or Latin America? Not seeking them out of course, being a het man, just seeing what is there.

I studied fine arts so I had nude models (female and male) to draw in a non-erotic context.

The thing on size makes me think of Bessie Smith singing "It ain't the meat, it's the motion"...


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Jimmy Brogan
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posted 21 March 2003 10:47 AM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
While atrocity might be hyperbolic, mutilation it most certainly is. An adult foreskin is several square inches of nerve rich skin. Next to the tongue and the glans it is the most sensitive area on the male body. Cutting off a piece of the body evolved for sexual pleasure is barbaric and ignorant.

When a baby boy is circumcised no anesthetic is used. The foreskin at this point is still attached to the glans. It must be literally ripped off the glans after it is cut. The sound the baby makes during this proceedure is one a human baby should never make. Total barbarism.


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Debra
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posted 21 March 2003 10:55 AM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
absolutely agree
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Michelle
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posted 21 March 2003 10:59 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
When a baby boy is circumcised no anesthetic is used.

Baloney. If you get it done by a doctor they will use anaesthetic if you ask for it.

I understand your arguments about it being nerve-rich skin. Also, I guess I can understand it being considered a "mutilation" in that sense. The only reason I have a problem with calling it a genital mutilation is because it drives me nuts when people compare FGM to male circumcision, when FGM actually impairs women while male circumcision does not impair men. If it impaired men sexually, then it would never have even gotten off the ground as a practice, considering that it has been perpetuated by men for men in a patriarchal culture.


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ronb
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posted 21 March 2003 11:08 AM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interesting. There are discussions elsewhere about the sliding scales of human rights abuses and genocides in other threads - is Turkey a "real" human rights abuser? 20,000 dead over a decade versus 100,000 in one year in Iraq. Over here we're discussing whether circumcision is "real" genital mutilation because compared to female circumcision it seems trifling.

First off, as Jimmy points out, it really is genital mutilation. Second, there is certainly a relationship between the two forms of circumcision that can't be ignored. They are both the product of excessively severe patriarchal cultures. I tend to be a little more sensitive to cultural norms than others, which gets me into some pretty heated discussions from time to time, but I definitely feel that circumcision has no place in MY culture, so I oppose it, even though I am, shall we say, a little light in the foreskin department myself.


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Mr. Magoo
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posted 21 March 2003 11:10 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have to wonder: how much of a girl's genitals would need to be ritualistically sliced off to qualify as mutilation?
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Jimmy Brogan
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posted 21 March 2003 11:35 AM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle I was not aware that anesthetic was an option. In the documentary I saw it was not used and the wails of the infants was haunting to say the least. The circumcisions in this documentary all took place in modern US hospitals.

The origins of the practice get me wondering though. I can't picture a village council in the dim past where someone gets up and suggests from now on, to distiguish ourselves from that other tribe, we start cutting off the ends of our cocks.
I mean - motion denied.

Not to mention how many must have died from infection.

How do these things get started?

Of course everything I said about male circumcision goes 100x for the removal of a female clitoris.


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ronb
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posted 21 March 2003 11:45 AM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Honestly, what an array of options... to put formaldyhide in your newborn's bloodstream or not? Mutilate his penis, or not? Hmm. Tough one.
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Mr. Magoo
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posted 21 March 2003 12:00 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just a curious question: why the hell would you have to ask for anaesthetic? Do most parents want their baby to scream?
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skdadl
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posted 21 March 2003 12:04 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
ronb:

Does anyone know whether there was, historically, a geographic/climatic factor in the practice of circumcision? That is, before it became enshrined in anyone's cultural or religious traditions, might it have been practised for health reasons, imagined or real? Was it common in more than one region, place, tradition?

[ 21 March 2003: Message edited by: skdadl ]


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steffie
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posted 21 March 2003 12:21 PM      Profile for steffie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In my studies of Religion and Gender I have discovered that the origin of the cutting of the foreskin appears in the bible, and represents Abraham's covenant with God (Genesis 17:10-11). God then ordered Abe to circumsize the penises of all the men in his tribe (Gen 17: 12-14). Today, religion and hygeine are the major reasons for choosing this procedure.

While we are into this topic to such depth, I'd like to suggest that boys who grow up "uncut" necessarily have a different relationship with their penises, as the hygiene and care differs slightly from foreskin-free members. Any comments on this? C'mon, guys... lets' see what you think.


From: What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow / Out of this stony rubbish? | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
dale cooper
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posted 21 March 2003 12:53 PM      Profile for dale cooper     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Having never grown up "cut", I can't say for sure if there's a difference in relationship, but it's not like keeping it clean is an ordeal. You don't have to scrub it unmercilessly or perform a huge routine. It's just like cleaning anything else. You don't really think about it, you just do it. I would make no claim to be more familiar with my penis than one of the poor souls who got cut. The real relationship comes about during... other activities....
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mighty brutus
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posted 21 March 2003 01:31 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wasn't there a study that statistically found that women who had circumcized partners had a much lower rate of cervical cancer?

Calling male circumcision 'barbaric' or comparing it to female circumcision is fatuous, to say the least.
Personally, I never had the option, but I've heard the best way to lose a foreskin is to wear it out. (with apologies to dale cooper for excessive use of smiley faces)

[ 21 March 2003: Message edited by: mighty brutus ]


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Mr. Magoo
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posted 21 March 2003 01:44 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What if a parent wanted to arbitrarily cut off the tip of a baby's nose, would that be barbaric? I mean, the nose would still work, right?
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dale cooper
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posted 21 March 2003 02:06 PM      Profile for dale cooper     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
with apologies to dale cooper for excessive use of smiley faces

Now mighty brutus, you silly monkey - you know darn well it wasn't the excessive smiley faces that bothered me. It was the attempt to use them to justify your "rape is an acceptable means of showing women you're right" joke that I found offensive.


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paxamillion
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posted 21 March 2003 02:23 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I don't know, I think the whole "bigger is better" thing is overrated.

I think it's what's between the temples that counts more when it comes to good sex.


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Michelle
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posted 21 March 2003 02:34 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Testify, brother Pax!
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mighty brutus
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posted 21 March 2003 02:37 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I knew it wouldn't take much to get your panties in a bunch again, dale cooper. To call my joke "a justification of rape" is ridiculous. If it had been that offensive, I'm sure the moderators would have been all over me. It was slightly 'naughty' and yes, possibly even juvenile, I will concede.
quote:
The real relationship comes about during... other activities....

I think it's safe to assume that none of these activities on your part actually involve a partner (at least one that's not inflatable).

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Michelle
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posted 21 March 2003 02:42 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All right. Enough of that. Take it to private mail if you want to have a pissing contest.
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paxamillion
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posted 21 March 2003 03:29 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Am I the only one who thinks the idea of a pissing contest over circumcision seems funny in a bizarre kind of way?
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verbatim
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posted 21 March 2003 03:32 PM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, I laughed when I read Michelle's comment. I also find the image of a pissing contest between women rather amusing, in a bizarre sort of way.
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Michelle
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posted 21 March 2003 03:33 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nope. I realized after I wrote it that it could be taken that way. Hee hee.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
dale cooper
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posted 21 March 2003 03:36 PM      Profile for dale cooper     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hope you're not insinuating that the mighty brutus and myself are women! Just because my panties are all bunched up, does not make me any less of a man.

BTW brutus, how did you know about my undergarment preference? Which is solely for comfort.


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skdadl
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posted 21 March 2003 03:45 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wear kilts. Best ventilation. Keeps the sperm count up.
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Michelle
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posted 21 March 2003 03:47 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmm. I'll be avoiding men in kilts then!
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 21 March 2003 03:51 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Faithless deceiver!
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 21 March 2003 04:01 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh 'lance. I've been avoiding telling you this for some time, but I just don't think it will work out between us. What with the kilts, and my having proposed to at least four other babblers...
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 21 March 2003 04:03 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
She seems to like my kilts just fine! Maybe it's your clan, MacLance.

Or maybe it's because I refuse to be taken in by her charms and she likes a good challenge.


From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 21 March 2003 04:24 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Och, weel. My clan, indeed. And with the blue of my Nova Scotia tartan kilt matching my eyes so well...
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 21 March 2003 04:26 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Blue tartan? Wellllllll...
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 21 March 2003 04:57 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Aye, but it's those disgraceful blue Stanfield's skivvies underneath that kilt she might find off-putting.
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'lance
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posted 21 March 2003 05:03 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here, now! Fine old Nova Scotia company, that. And Truro needs the work!
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paxamillion
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posted 21 March 2003 05:14 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And my father sold them thread for their skivvies for decades. But that does not mean you wear them under your kilt.
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Timebandit
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posted 21 March 2003 06:41 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Wear kilts. Best ventilation. Keeps the sperm count up.

And there's another kind of cut that can solve that little problem -- the Big V.


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audra trower williams
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posted 21 March 2003 07:28 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Brutus: I found your post about using your penis to convince people of the error of their ways totally offensive. The only reason I didn't call you on it is that I've been busy.
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xrcrguy
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posted 21 March 2003 07:49 PM      Profile for xrcrguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
HA! For most my life I didn't even realize I was circumcised, I just thought I was born that way. I never asked and my parents never told me. Then last year I found out at a family gathering.
How embarassing.

From: Believe in ideas, not ideology | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 21 March 2003 07:53 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Are you serious, xrcrguy?? Did you not notice differences in locker rooms or gym showers or anything? I mean, I know you're not staring at other guys' willies, but...

Oh, sorry, pax, other penises.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
xrcrguy
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posted 21 March 2003 08:20 PM      Profile for xrcrguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
code:
I just didn't really pay much attention I guess.  


From: Believe in ideas, not ideology | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 21 March 2003 08:27 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Xrcrguy, that's the best story I've heard in a long time! You made my day.

How old were you when you figured it out? Oh never mind, you said last year. Hee hee.

Don't be embarassed, that's really cute! I guess it would be easy for a guy not to know - I mean, when does the subject of circumcision come up around the supper table?

[ 21 March 2003: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 21 March 2003 08:28 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is a Guardian story about Britain, but such things are not unknown in Canada.

Prison for female circumcision 'holidays'
Staff and agencies
Friday March 21, 2003
The Guardian

Parents who take their daughters abroad to be circumcised could be sentenced to 14 years in prison, if proposed legislation becomes law.

The home secretary, David Blunkett, today backed a private members bill making it illegal for girls to be taken abroad for "female genital mutilation", and increasing penalties from five to 14 years.

Some ethnic minority communities evade the law by arranging for girls to have the operation during a "holiday" abroad.

Female circumcision involves the surgical removal of the clitoris, and sometimes parts of the labia, reducing the ability to feel sexual pleasure. It is usually performed on girls aged between four and 13, but can sometimes be inflicted on new born babies.

The operation frequently leads to medical complications and even death - women who have suffered genital mutilation are twice as likely to die in childbirth and three times as likely to give birth to a stillborn child.

Ann Clwyd's bill, which received its second reading today, seeks to amend existing legislation, which banned the practice in Britain 17 years ago.

"We need to send a strong message that the practice of female genital mutilation is totally unacceptable," Ms Clywd told MPs. "It is not a matter which we can leave to be decided by personal preference or practice or custom - it is harmful."

Mr Blunkett described female circumcision as a "barbaric practice that is rightly illegal in this country".

"It cannot be justified on cultural, medical or any other grounds," he added. "It causes extreme pain and suffering and often leads to permanent health problems."

"I am determined to ensure this vile practice is completely outlawed and I am very pleased Ann Clwyd brought forward this private members bill, without which I would have brought forward government legislation."

The Conservatives' foreign affairs spokeswoman, Cheryl Gillan, welcomed the bill and condemned female genital mutilation as an "abhorrent practice" which amounted to "child abuse".

Female circumcision is practised among Britain's Somali, Ethiopian, Eritrean, Yemeni, Malaysian and Indonesian communities. It is more common among some Muslim communities, but is not exclusively linked with Islam.

It is believed that 74,000 first-generation African immigrant women in Britain have undergone female circumcision, and that up to 7,000 girls under 16 are at risk from the procedure.
Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 21 March 2003 08:28 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i've always thought that uncut men kind of look like elephants, like they're able to just reach out and pick up an apple.

but maybe that's just me.


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
googlymoogly
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posted 21 March 2003 10:21 PM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
After a careful and weighed balance, I prefer uncut myself Took a while to get used to, though; I had trouble figuring out what to do with that extra bit of lovin' stuck at the end
From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
xrcrguy
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posted 22 March 2003 10:05 AM      Profile for xrcrguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was embarrassed for little while, not anymore.

I never knew what I was missing anyway!


From: Believe in ideas, not ideology | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 22 March 2003 10:33 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm sure that in my field, we would just say that this is merely a difference of modes. You know: uncut is sort of Baroque, or maybe pre-Raphaelite, whereas cut is Le Corbusier ("less is more").

I am not so open-minded on the subject of female "circumcision," which I don't consider circumcision but mutilation, since it severely damages the basic capacity.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mohamad Khan
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posted 22 March 2003 11:33 AM      Profile for Mohamad Khan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I am not so open-minded on the subject of female "circumcision," which I don't consider circumcision but mutilation, since it severely damages the basic capacity.

agreed.

back in December, lagatta pointed me to a really good edition of Tikkun that dealt with the Jewish cut/uncut debate. i can't find them anymore though...'gatta, where'd they go?

cut and quite comfortable with it myself, but this doesn't necessarily mean that my son would have to be. circumcision has become as much of a fixture in Islam as in Judaism, so any Muslim guy you meet is almost certainly foreskinless. during the Partition of South Asia that's how they identified men as Hindu or Muslim: by pulling down their pants.

however...

i don't have the Qur'an memorised or anything, but i'm quite sure that male circumcision is *not* mentioned therein at all ("female circumcision" is of course not an Islamic thing just because certain people who happen to be Muslims practise it). i believe it's mentioned in the Sunna, but--and i wonder what Mandos thinks about this--i think it's ridiculous to incorporate it into shari`a if it doesn't have a crystal-clear Qur'anic reference. so i certainly wouldn't feel religiously obligated to circumcise my son; it's more of an identity thing. it belongs in that little box of things we got from the Torah that we could probably pare out of shari`a. like many of the dietary restrictions they taught in Islamic school.


From: "Glorified Harlem": Morningside Heights, NYC | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
SamL
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posted 22 March 2003 05:13 PM      Profile for SamL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
At Cadet Summer Training last summer, when the temperature was so hot that training ceased and we were confined to tents, somebody in our tent brought up the subject (I have no idea why). It turned out, quite coincidentally, that those of us who slept on the side facing the parade square were circumcized, and those of us who slept on the other side weren't -- right down the middle split. (Maybe circumcised guys have an affinity for drill & ceremonial? ) Nobody knows why the topic was brought up in the first place, but it was oft-heard afterwards that the far side of the tent was inhabited by "skin-heads."
From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 22 March 2003 08:41 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"skin-heads" - hilarious. Especially since real, "Aryan-power" type skinheads are not known for their love of Jews and Muslims.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 01 April 2003 11:41 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just got my hair cut. Like this!


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 02 April 2003 02:14 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I re did mine two weeks ago.

It looks just like that picture, only not so blonde.


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flotsom
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posted 02 April 2003 02:28 AM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I cut my hair myself -- it takes me less than six minutes.

It always looks really stupid.

I like that.

Ya gotta "life the hood". By that I mean you have to cut under a little shorter or that hair-part will turn up on you.

Anyone else cut their own hair?


From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 02 April 2003 02:40 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Newp. But a friend of mine is handy with the shears. I find I like short hair as it requires no work in the morning. It also dries off virtually instantly after the shower.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 02 April 2003 03:04 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I get about 2 professional haircuts a year, the rest of the time I'm madly hacking away on my own
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
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posted 02 April 2003 03:10 AM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Agreed. I had it mid-long throughout my teens and into my twenties. I prefer it short. I doubt I'll let it grow again. I need a system, though.

Or a hospital tag for my wrist.

(tasteless joke ~ sorry)

edited:

Audra, that's awesome.

I've almost thought of going to see the professionals...to sort of clear up the rough spots -- like the back and the sides.

[ 02 April 2003: Message edited by: flotsom ]


From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 02 April 2003 01:41 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I just got my hair cut. Like this!

Hey, audra, that's remarkably similar to my haircut! You have excellent taste!


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 02 April 2003 01:49 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Anyone else cut their own hair?

Every other morning, in the shower, with a razor.


From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Secret Agent Style
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posted 02 April 2003 04:48 PM      Profile for Secret Agent Style        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Anyone else cut their own hair?

I have been cutting my own hair for about 15 years. Most of the time I have just taken it all off with clippers, but sometimes I do more complex styles.

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lagatta
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posted 02 April 2003 05:31 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmm, mine is really long and I need to have it shaped. If anyone knows a good hairdresser or barber in Montreal who is good with curly - kinky hair and not too expensive, please tell me!

Mine is really "uncut" right now .


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
dale cooper
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posted 02 April 2003 05:35 PM      Profile for dale cooper     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I used to cut my own and then before my wedding I had to go for a profesional cut and after some extremely frustrating repair work from my hair-dresser, I was forced to promise never to do it again. And anyway, I'm addicted to the hair washing job my hair dresser does. It feels SOOOOOOOOOOO good.
From: Another place | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 02 April 2003 05:37 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hair dressers always say that. It's not in their best interests for you to cut your own hair.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
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posted 02 April 2003 05:48 PM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ooooh the wash. The finger tips.

When I was around fourteen years old I was going to a very attractive hairdresser who had the magic fingertips. Unforgetable scalp-joy. She also played chicken with my elbow. Whenever I would move my elbow in great pressure and embarrassment she would soon be there.

One of my few close friends is a musician from Grenada -- he plays a raunchy Grenadian or Trinidadian folk song about just that -- not hairdressing, mind you...


From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 02 April 2003 05:48 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dentists too. It's such a scam!
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
dale cooper
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posted 02 April 2003 05:48 PM      Profile for dale cooper     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In retrospect, I think I have to agree with her. It wasn't in anybodys interest for me to cut my own hair.
From: Another place | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 02 April 2003 05:59 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh har, Magoo.

Obviously I'm not talking about complex cuts. But the occasional bang-trimming or if you have long, one length hair, cutting it yourself or getting your spouse to cut it is really no big deal.

My ex cuts my son's hair all the time.

Oh, and I do mean ALL the time. As in, it seems like every other week something is different about the poor kid's hair. Luckily he likes having his hair cut - I think it's a male bonding thing between them. Likely it's because my ex notices that this part or that part is overgrown or isn't quite even, so he shapes it. He does a pretty darn good job too, which is why I don't complain.

I'll tell you when I DID complain though - back when we were married, he cut my little one's hair when he was about a year or so old. He had beautiful, babyish, floppy hair that made him look adorable.

Well, I got this call at work after he did it, and he told me, "I cut his hair." I said, "You did? How does it look?" He said, "Well, um, it's short." I thought, oh NO. "HOW SHORT??" He laughed sheepishly and said, "Well, kind of bald."

I almost started to cry there and then. I managed to keep my voice low, but I tell you, I was ready to go home and shoot him.

Lucky for him, when I got home, the little one wasn't bald, although his hair was very, very short. I only cried for about half an hour, and ranted, "I TOLD you I didn't want you to cut his hair! I TOLD YOU!" which I thought was quite restrained of me.

I guess it beats cutting off his foreskin. I guess. Although I like the "cut" look better since I'm more used to it.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
dale cooper
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posted 02 April 2003 06:04 PM      Profile for dale cooper     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I guess it beats cutting off his foreskin. I guess.


Yeah. Especially if it's going to be a home operation.


From: Another place | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 02 April 2003 06:07 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Obviously I'm not talking about complex cuts. But the occasional bang-trimming or if you have long, one length hair, cutting it yourself or getting your spouse to cut it is really no big deal.

Sez you! I love the blond guy dearly, would trust him with my heart, my money, my life... But not my hair.

lagatta will bear this out -- it takes a special level of skill to cut naturally curly hair. It's incredibly difficult to find somebody competent, even among skilled stylists. I also have a pro cut the wee grils bangs. My mother does interim trims on them, but it's really hard because Ms T has inherited the unruliness my hair has. We need the occasional pro trim so we can keep some sort of plumb line going.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 02 April 2003 06:10 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Haha! Good point, Dale!

Back to dentists again. I finally went to the dentist back in February - for the first time in 10 years. It was just one of those things I had kept putting off because my teeth never hurt, and it costs a lot of money, etc. But now that I have a plan through school, I finally got around to going.

I was expecting to maybe have a couple of cavities, or at least have some kind of problem after 10 years of no dental care.

But no. I got every x-ray known to mankind done there (I was a new patient, obviously), they cleaned my teeth, looked at the x-rays, and my teeth were fine.

Then the guy asked me if I floss. I hemmed and hawwed and looked at the floor. He said, "Well, if you floss, come back in a year for your next check up. If not, come back in six months." I left, chastised, but then got thinking about it - yeah right, buddy. I'll be back in five or ten years if I don't get a toothache between now and then!

So there, Mr. Magoo.

[ 02 April 2003: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
SamL
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posted 02 April 2003 06:36 PM      Profile for SamL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Approaching Annual Inspection.... time for the buzz.... #1 or #1.5 all around....

This time of year, you don't need to look at the uniform to spot the cadets at our school, just the hair.


From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
dale cooper
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posted 02 April 2003 07:04 PM      Profile for dale cooper     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle - my advice as someone who also avoided the dentist for a great many years - keep regular checkups if you have a plan available to you. I similarly didn't go because I felt no pain and somehow had a cavity infiltrate my mouth and absolutely destroy one of my teeth resulting in manymanymany hours of root canal and manymanymany dollars. All avoidable.

That being said, I have gained a new appreciation for the dentist. Sitting in that chair for hours on end not being able to move or speak or close your mouth. It's like penance for an agnostic! Once a year, wash away your sin by subjecting yourself to the pains of dentistry! It's great.


From: Another place | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 02 April 2003 07:16 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
*giggle*

I dislike invasive dentistry. The day they quit using those goddamn needles is the day I'll gladly religiously go every 6 months even if I have to pay for it myself.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kindred
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posted 02 April 2003 07:38 PM      Profile for Kindred     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
When a baby boy is circumcised no anesthetic is used. The foreskin at this point is still attached to the glans. It must be literally ripped off the glans after it is cut. The sound the baby makes during this proceedure is one a human baby should never make. Total barbarism.


yah what you said, while in the hospital with other newborns they were bringing them back screaming so hard they were choking, you could hear the outrage and pain in those cries - it was awful!

So when they asked me if my son was going to be circumcised I said NO WAY IN HELL ! At that time they thought I was odd - 1980 and now apparently more and more babies arent - so IMO thats a good thing.


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Michelle
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posted 02 April 2003 07:41 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They use anasthetic now. I agree that it's absolutely inhuman to circumsize a baby without painkillers.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 02 April 2003 09:07 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can't see the point, unless to conform to convention.

A good shuffling ought to suffice.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 02 April 2003 09:20 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, if they aren't circumcised, often you can't see the point.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 02 April 2003 09:24 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mohamad Khan
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posted 02 April 2003 10:59 PM      Profile for Mohamad Khan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
*groan*
From: "Glorified Harlem": Morningside Heights, NYC | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
googlymoogly
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posted 02 April 2003 11:13 PM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know that some people get their kids circumcised because they're afraid of bacteria building up under the skin, but couldn't normal hygeine take care of that?
From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 03 April 2003 12:11 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One source on the origins of circumcision amoungst English Protestant culture was that it was sold as "more hygenic".

What it really meant was that for the time that young boys needed help cleaning themselves, mothers and nannies were relieved of this task in the sexually repressive Victorian era.

At least, that's one explanation of the phenomena I've read.


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
googlymoogly
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posted 03 April 2003 12:14 AM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Makes sense Being of the non-penile variety, I really wouldn't know, but I've always wondered that.
From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
clersal
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posted 03 April 2003 12:20 AM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I remember when my son was born I asked about circumcision. The doctor asked if the father was circumcised, he wasn't, so he said that the baby needn't be. Makes sense.
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 03 April 2003 01:36 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The question was broached by our G.P. when my ex was pregnant with our first. I was ambivolent and wanted to know the health risks associated with surgery as opposed to the instances of things like infection from poor hygiene or other complications that come with having a foreskin.

When it became clear that our G.P. was trying to steer us to the non-circumcision decision, my ex became quite upset, saying that if we had a boy "he had to look like his father."

That always stuck in my head, because I can't for the life of me remember it being important to me that I had the same kind of penis as my father. I dunno, had I not been circumcised, and we were different, maybe it would have mattered, but I really can't imagine it being a serious issue.

Having more facts at my disposal today, I would not opt to have a son circumcised.


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 03 April 2003 02:02 AM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
other complications that come with having a foreskin.

They're the same complications that come with say? 10 fingers or two testicles.


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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Babbler # 2956

posted 03 April 2003 02:12 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have a nephew that had to be circumcised around age nine or ten. His foreskin was too small. I've heard of this condition before, but I have no idea how often it happens.


TWO testicles?

[ 03 April 2003: Message edited by: TommyPaineatWork ]


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3674

posted 03 April 2003 08:27 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
TWO testicles?

a man goes to his doctor. he says "doctor, i've had this secret shame for all my life, i have to confess it to you, i have three testicles."

the doctor thinks about this.

"no, NO, it's not a thing to be shameful about, you've got three testicles. that's something no one else has. i want you to go up to the first person you see on leaving my office and proudly tell them what you just told me."

so, the man is on his way home on the bus, and he decides to try out the doctor's advice.

he turns to the guy beside him and says:

"you know, between the two of us, we have five testicles,"

and the guy replies,

"what, you have only one?"


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kindred
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3285

posted 03 April 2003 05:42 PM      Profile for Kindred     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As someone said the concern of hygiene came out of Victorian days. I think we are more open minded now and can show our boys how to wash properly, and they do have baths everyday now and not just once a week or once a month.

The foreskin will get too tight if the child isnt pulling it back all the way to wash regularly - and the key is "all the way". If we treat our childrens genitals as a "no touch" areas then they wont learn the basis of proper hygiene. If you cant see yourself teaching your child the basics of proper hygiene then circumcise them as babies so they wont have to go through it when they are older.

I understand it can become a problem for elderly men if their care givers are also squeemish about touching them. Our society still has Victorian hangups ..

Lets see "cut or clean"? Seems like an obvious decision to me.


From: British Columbia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged

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