babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » right brain babble   » babble banter   » God Save The Queen

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: God Save The Queen
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 05 April 2002 02:54 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ever wonder whether she gets tired of hearing that song? She hears it everywhere she goes. I would.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
andrean
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 361

posted 05 April 2002 03:04 PM      Profile for andrean     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe not if they play her the Sex Pistols' version from time to time...
From: etobicoke-lakeshore | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1204

posted 05 April 2002 03:20 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I fucking don't know where to go anymore. Politics and News have been overtaken by aggressive bigots. Technicians (as opposed to thinkers ) have overtaken the Ideas sections. Threads on spirituality have been overtaken by positivist bigots. I reckon this is the only place I can post at this moment. If you'll pardon my thread drift, that is.
From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 826

posted 05 April 2002 03:50 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hi Tress!

What's a positivist bigot?


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1204

posted 05 April 2002 04:32 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, don't mind me. I'm just being Tres.

Positivist bigots: People who think that THEY GOT IT thanks to 'scientific methods' and who live in the world devoid of miracles, surprises, and ambiguities, in an All-Is-Transparent Land.

(To be particularly kind here.)


From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 554

posted 05 April 2002 04:36 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Oh, don't mind me. I'm just being Tres.


Tres Cool, to be more precise.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 05 April 2002 11:38 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Maybe not if they play her the Sex Pistols' version from time to time...

One of the better pranks we pulled off in High School was the substitution of "O Canada" for the Sex Pistol's "God Save the Queen."

The whole school was surprised, it was a miracle we were able to pull the switch, and the identities of the perpetrators remainded postitively ambigous.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 06 April 2002 12:57 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Positivist bigots: People who think that THEY GOT IT thanks to 'scientific methods' and who live in the world devoid of miracles, surprises, and ambiguities, in an All-Is-Transparent Land.

Miracles by definition require a deus ex machina.

However, surprises and ambiguities are inherent to the probabilistic nature of the world we live in.

Fa fa fa.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 06 April 2002 01:29 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Somehow Dr., I see us ending our days tied together at a stake with flames beneath us.

......either that, or it's some kind of flashback to the time I wondered into the wrong bar in Toronto years ago........

budda bump bump tssshh......


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1331

posted 06 April 2002 02:12 AM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Ever wonder whether she gets tired of hearing that song? She hears it everywhere she goes. I would.
Some songs you never get tired of - like hearing "Oh Canada" at the Olympics! I'm not sure she would be around to hear "God Save The King" again.

And the Queen mother - our mothers are not purrfect either. Who all saw Bean - The Ultimate Disaster Movie, because the speach Mr. Bean gave on Whister's mother sounded very much to me like the speach Prince Charles gave of his grandmother. Maybe it was just the accent.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1204

posted 06 April 2002 12:10 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Somehow Dr., I see us ending our days tied together at a stake with flames beneath us.

Um, last time I checked it was People Who Know that burned People Who Don't at stakes... Thomas Paine knew that very well, as he barely escaped decapitation from positivist bigots who were supposed to be on his side. But Tommy Paine obviously doesn't.

Edited after noticing this:

quote:
However, surprises and ambiguities are inherent to the probabilistic nature of the world we live in.

Inherent nature of the world we live in? Hmmm. Last time I saw that terminology... was that St Thomas Aquinas? Or St Anselm of Canterbury?

quote:
Miracles by definition require a deus ex machina.

Nope. Some Greek tragedies require deus-ex-machina. 'Miracles', or to put it more socio-politically, Events are what comes out to haunt those who think that they grabbed God - or the Inherent Nature of the World - by the balls. You cannot know in advance what a miracle (read also: major screw-up of our epistemologies) requires, as it does not pertain to the existing legitimate notions of the Inherent Nature of the World.

Now if you'll excuse me, there appears to be a cool new thread upstairs in the Politics section that caught my eye.

[ April 06, 2002: Message edited by: Trespasser ]


From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 06 April 2002 01:09 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Incorrect. It was clearly People Who Didn't Know that burned People Who Did Know. Like all of the midwives burned as witches, because They Knew, which threatened (male) physicians who Didn't Know. And there is the case of Galileo, who (while he wasn't burned) was persecuted because He Knew, but was commanded to say that he Didn't Know and refused to say it.


Thinkers? Technicians? Give me a break. I suppose you arrogate yourself to "Thinker." How do you apportion "Technician" designations, with, presumably, the desire to disqualify their positions? Bigot.


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1331

posted 06 April 2002 01:25 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nnortrup Frye
quote:
I do not believe in conflicts between science and the humanities, or between religion and science; but we do have conflict when different theories attempt to explain the same set of facts (29).
Stephen Ceci
quote:
QUOTE>The species Homo sapiens has a marvelous, if not unique, capacity to be creative, or at least many of its members do: some see novelty where others see only hackneyed; some detect patterns where others see only randomness; and some bear witness to chaos where others unearth predictability. Such subjective constructions are the essence of art, but do they also occur in science? Do scientists see vastly different things when they look at the same constellation of data? Or do the scientific canons of evidence constrain the use of data, ineluctably leading to a single interpretation?
Scientists may eventually come to a consensual interpretation about a pattern of data, but until and unless they do there can be vast differences of opinion.

From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1204

posted 06 April 2002 01:39 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Having a bad hair day, Mandos?
From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 06 April 2002 01:44 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Great quotes, vaudree.

We'll do Frye one day soon, yes?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1331

posted 06 April 2002 01:52 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks. Sure, have a bunch of his quotes saved in WP. Now a choice of topic. I would like to deal with the issue of relevance someday too, since I think it is an important one.

BTW what powers do the monarchy have left? And on the same topic - did the words monarchy and monarche have a similar origin?


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 06 April 2002 02:53 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Trespasser: Si vales, valeo. Si non vales, non valeo.


As for Frye, I agree completely. But, in my area of interest, different theories do indeed attempt to explain the same set of facts, so this debate is important to me--it does line up between "humanities" and "science", unfortunately. Linguistics is an area in which science and the humanities have these big wars, and, while Chomsky et al. try to ignore them, I think it's very hard to leave them alone.


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1204

posted 06 April 2002 03:14 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
On a different, teasing-free note...

Do you know of any good French language courses (advanced) on-line, Mandos and all? I've been search-enginening all morning and all I have are bits and pieces.

[ April 06, 2002: Message edited by: Trespasser ]


From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 06 April 2002 03:25 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sadly, no. I tend not to look for language courses online, although I know they exist. I tend to use online materials to supplement books. For Greek and Latin, there are some excellent tools however, and rudimentary lessons. Have you done a search for the Human Languages Page? I think that's what it's called, it's a giant compendium of resources listed by language, and it's sure to have tonnes on French. By a guy named "{Something} Chambers". It's been a while since I've visited that page...
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1204

posted 06 April 2002 03:29 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'll check.
From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
annie.victoria
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2341

posted 06 April 2002 03:46 PM      Profile for annie.victoria     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Does the President get tired of hearing "Hail to the Chief"??

On another dead note, I felt really bad when someone told me Milton Berle died last week. I thought he WAS dead.


From: victoria | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1204

posted 06 April 2002 04:14 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, I know. And Canadian political leaders have a theme song for each time they enter a party gathering...

Mandos, appears the Human Languages Page is now called ILoveLanguages and so far looks very promising. Thanks for the tip.


From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 06 April 2002 04:38 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Thomas Paine knew that very well, as he barely escaped decapitation from positivist bigots who were supposed to be on his side. But Tommy Paine obviously doesn't.

.....My first post with a new monitor! The colours! I can see the music!

*ahem* .....anyway.

It's been a while since I read about this, but if my memory serves, The Jacobites under Robbespierre were actually deists of a type, that insisted that everyone acknowledge a god. I do not believe Paine did and this got him an appointment with the guillotine. He, along with de Sade and many others were not put into the timbrels on schedule as this was the very end of the Riegn of Terror, so the mix up preserved both thier lives.

I wonder if Paine and de Sade met each other? If so, I wonder what they talked about?

Burning at the stake was not just used against witches, but against "heratics" too, and no doubt I and my name sake would have been accounted such by the Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant churches at one time or another.

The Christians accounted such an execution as an act of love. Fire cleansed the soul of the demons, and it was thought then the guilty might still be able to make it to heaven.

.......and that's what they did to people they loved. Wouldn't you hate to get on their bad side?


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 06 April 2002 06:30 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Does the President get tired of hearing "Hail to the Chief"??

They only have to listen to it for 8 years at the most. Queen Elizabeth has been coming up on 50 years (not including all the engagements she's attended before becoming Queen where it was played).


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
annie.victoria
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2341

posted 06 April 2002 07:58 PM      Profile for annie.victoria     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I believe before she became Queen they sang "God Save the King."


From: victoria | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Arch Stanton
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2356

posted 06 April 2002 11:36 PM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Miracles by definition require a deus ex machina.

Nope. Some Greek tragedies require deus-ex-machina.


...saved me the trouble...
------------------

How about doing away with national anthems altogether?
"God save your mad parade"
I propose that we substitute ["me for Jim"]
the fiddlin' tune "Maple Sugar"
"There is no future"
for Oi Canada
"Lord God have mercy"
So instead of trying to remember the words...
"Oi, Steve, Let's do Roadrunner"
...we can jig at public gatherings.


From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1204

posted 07 April 2002 01:00 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, Thomas Paine had troubles because he didn't embrace the revolutionary Terror. Specifically, he was imprisoned under Robespierre because he had voted against the execution of Louis XVI, and generally because he could not follow totalitarial revolutionary fervor...

But what should I care. Boys . At the same time, Olympe de Gouge was guillotined for pushing her Declaration of the Rights of Women.

Now back to the scheduled programming...


From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 07 April 2002 02:33 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thank you Tres. My readings on Paine and on the Revolution didn't actually address this part of his life, although perhaps the introduction of "The Rights of Man" did and I forgot.

But, that still leaves me at a loss to understand your reference.

Surely, outside of perhaps Jimmy Flaherty, I've never wanted to cut off anyone's head.

Think of the mess.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1204

posted 07 April 2002 03:33 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ha. (The rest edited for being a thread drift within a thread drift within a thread drift.)

[ April 07, 2002: Message edited by: Trespasser ]


From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 07 April 2002 05:20 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Inherent nature of the world we live in? Hmmm. Last time I saw that terminology... was that St Thomas Aquinas? Or St Anselm of Canterbury?

Unlike certain religious writers on the nature of the world, I am posting with fairly definite scientific knowledge that the world on the macro and micro level (for different reasons, admittedly) has a built-in element of probability, and therefore uncertainty.

quote:
Nope. Some Greek tragedies require deus-ex-machina. 'Miracles', or to put it more socio-politically, Events are what comes out to haunt those who think that they grabbed God - or the Inherent Nature of the World - by the balls. You cannot know in advance what a miracle (read also: major screw-up of our epistemologies) requires, as it does not pertain to the existing legitimate notions of the Inherent Nature of the World.

When I say "deus ex machina" I refer to the general sense of the phrase, which is to say, that a miracle requires something supernatural o accomplish.

May I introduce you to a term I coined, called "nigletizing", which means excessive focus on minor details in an argument?

[ April 07, 2002: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 07 April 2002 05:32 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
"That no testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish."

Humes Maxim.

I've been meaning to invoke it here and elsewhere recently.


I have it in a glass case on my wall, next to a hammer and a sign saying "In case of miracles, break glass".

Hume also said one should proportion one's beliefs according to the evidence.

Smart guy, Hume.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1331

posted 07 April 2002 05:59 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How does Humes define "miracle?

One of mine is in the other room playing with his toys.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Secret Agent Style
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2077

posted 07 April 2002 06:39 PM      Profile for Secret Agent Style        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know anything about Hume, but I think a miracle is anything that scientists can't explain yet.
From: classified | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1331

posted 07 April 2002 06:57 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Does being able to explain something make it any less of a miracle?
From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
SamL
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2199

posted 07 April 2002 09:20 PM      Profile for SamL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Back to the topic, in the three years I spent in NJ, our school had an assembly every Monday, and each Monday one of the school bands would play a US patriotic song such as Star-Spangled banner or America the Beautiful. In the third or so month of school the Concert band played a song, to which I wasn't paying very much attention to, being a Canadian. Entering my 1st period class, one of my classmates was humming the tune of that song. I asked "Why are you singing God Save the Queen".
So not only did the Americans get their nat'l anthem from a British drinking song, but they got another patriotic song from the Royal Anthem. Go figure.
And God Save the Queen.

From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Trespasser
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1204

posted 07 April 2002 10:07 PM      Profile for Trespasser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
May I introduce you to a term I coined, called "nigletizing", which means excessive focus on minor details in an argument?

No you may not. Those were not the minor details, there's an entire worldview in them.


From: maritimes | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 07 April 2002 11:12 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I consider it to be nitpicking. Fa fa fa.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Arch Stanton
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2356

posted 08 April 2002 12:24 AM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Others would consider it intellectual rigour.
From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1331

posted 08 April 2002 12:28 AM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
May I introduce you to a term I coined, called "nigletizing", which means excessive focus on minor details in an argument?
It's called "thinking inside the box" which can be contrasted with "thinking outside of the box." The two extremes along the ADHD continuum.

From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 08 April 2002 01:02 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, indeed, Trespasser, the correct worldview, regardless of your mischaracterization. I use, of course, the term "correct" deliberately.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 08 April 2002 10:30 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Americans got their national anthem from a British drinking song!?

Are we talking about The Star Spangled Banner?

I didn't know that.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
SamL
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2199

posted 08 April 2002 10:46 AM      Profile for SamL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yep, and a British Navy drinking song too.
From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 08 April 2002 11:10 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Those British sailors must have had a hell of a range. Who'd a thunk it?
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1331

posted 08 April 2002 06:52 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Or quite the navy? They would have had to change the word a bit - like they did for Green Sleaves - "What child is this that something some in something some is something."
From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
SamL
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2199

posted 08 April 2002 07:50 PM      Profile for SamL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The composer of the US anthem wrote it to the tune of the drinking song while captive on a British ship durin the war of 1812.
The US anthem is: a British drinking song's tune, taken by an American prisoner on a British boat, during a war in which the US got their butts kicked. That's one helluva way to celebrate your country, no?

From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca