babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » current events   » international news and politics   » Reaction to Obama

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Reaction to Obama
Américain Égalitaire
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7911

posted 05 November 2008 08:42 AM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just can't help it. Eight years of doom and gloom and now this. I'll return to cynicism some other today. But just for today, I need to say . . . how proud I am of my people. Well, most of them

Newspaper front pages from Huffpo:

http://tinyurl.com/64fs59

Reactions around the country:

http://tinyurl.com/63aoox


From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7911

posted 05 November 2008 08:55 AM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought this was very good:

William Grieder in Alternet

quote:
We are inheritors of this momentous victory, but it was not ours. The laurels properly belong to the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and all of the other martyrs who died for civil rights. And to millions more before them who struggled across centuries and fell short of winning their freedom. And to those rare politicians like Lyndon B. Johnson, who stood up bravely in a decisive time, knowing how much it would cost his political party for years to come. We owe all of them for this moment.

Whatever happens next, Barack Obama has already changed this nation profoundly. Like King before him, the man is a great and brave teacher. Obama developed out of his life experiences a different understanding of the country, and he had the courage to run for president by offering this vision.

For many Americans, it seemed too much to believe, yet he turned out to be right about us. Against all odds, he persuaded a majority of Americans to believe in their own better natures and, by electing him, the people helped make it true. There is mysterious music in democracy when people decide to believe in themselves.



From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 05 November 2008 09:58 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm pretty thrilled too, AE! There will be lots of time to be critical when he starts selling out. But for today, and for the next little while, I'll be celebrating the change in direction, even if he doesn't go far enough for my liking.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 05 November 2008 06:01 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is historic, but at the same time, it's not. If Obama was darker skinned, scorned suits, and didn't have a Yankee accent, the white middle and upper middle class, wouldn't have felt so comfortable with him, and he would never have gotten elected. The power players that manipulated the system when Bush was in office are still in place. He'll dance to their tune no matter what.
It's was the same with Kennedy, if he had been from Southie or an immigrant fresh from the old sod, he would never gained power, but since he was rich, the man was a shoe in.

[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
djelimon
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13855

posted 05 November 2008 06:16 PM      Profile for djelimon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Obama ain't that rich, pally.
From: Hamilton, Ontario | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355

posted 05 November 2008 06:33 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Kennedy did have some advantages rich and well spoken but he was far from a shoe in. He had to overcome the widespread prejudice against is religion and ethnicity, Irish Catholic which was a pretty major thing back then. His age was also a major point against him.

A small point as well, if he was an immigrant straight from the old sod he would never have been able to run in the first place.

I honestly don't think that any candidate who scorned suits would have much of chance no matter who they are so I'm not sure that argument works here.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
djelimon
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13855

posted 05 November 2008 06:42 PM      Profile for djelimon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I honestly don't think that any candidate who scorned suits would have much of chance no matter who they are so I'm not sure that argument works here.

I agree. Layton wears a suit, Tommy Douglas wore a suit, MLK wore a suit. I bet Jesus would wear a suit today if he ran for office.


From: Hamilton, Ontario | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 05 November 2008 06:54 PM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Trust me, it's hard to get in anywhere while wearing a robe and sandals.
From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
G. Pie
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15576

posted 05 November 2008 07:03 PM      Profile for G. Pie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Slumberjack:
Trust me, it's hard to get in anywhere while wearing a robe and sandals.

True. And Jesus would probably ride a bike to work so there'd be the chain grease problem, too.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355

posted 05 November 2008 07:07 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by G. Pie:

True. And Jesus would probably ride a bike to work so there'd be the chain grease problem, too.


Heck not just the chain grease. Trust me getting a skirt/robe caught in the gears is not a good scene. Superman!

I still have scars.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Kevin Laddle
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14976

posted 05 November 2008 07:09 PM      Profile for Kevin Laddle     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by djelimon:

I agree. Layton wears a suit, Tommy Douglas wore a suit, MLK wore a suit. I bet Jesus would wear a suit today if he ran for office.


what about this guy?


From: Planet Earth | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 05 November 2008 07:10 PM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by G. Pie:
True. And Jesus would probably ride a bike to work so there'd be the chain grease problem, too.

And then there's those annoying times where it gets hopelessly threaded through the derailer.


From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 05 November 2008 07:15 PM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kevin Laddle:
[QB]what about this guy?

That must be one of the reasons why he never became India's first Prime Minister The dress code requirements clashed with his style.


From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
brookmere
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9693

posted 05 November 2008 10:28 PM      Profile for brookmere     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

It's was the same with Kennedy, if he had been from Southie or an immigrant fresh from the old sod, he would never gained power, but since he was rich, the man was a shoe in.


The Kennedy/Nixon contest in 1960 was in fact one of the closest in history.

And as far as a "southie" being disadvantaged, Kennedy was the last Democratic president from outside the South until Obama.


From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lord Palmerston
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4901

posted 05 November 2008 10:30 PM      Profile for Lord Palmerston     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Except for Nixon and Reagan.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289

posted 05 November 2008 10:49 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They were not democrats
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
wage zombie
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7673

posted 05 November 2008 11:21 PM      Profile for wage zombie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And i think by "southie" s/he means south Boston, which is working class.
From: sunshine coast BC | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
brookmere
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9693

posted 06 November 2008 09:37 AM      Profile for brookmere     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh OK I wasn't familiar with that term.

Yes I agree, no working-class Catholic has ever become US president - being a Catholic was enough of a handicap for Kennedy with all his connections.

Of course lots of them have gone places in the House and Senate. One of them, Joe Biden, will become the first Catholic VP to the best of my knowlege.


From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355

posted 06 November 2008 11:01 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brookmere:
Oh OK I wasn't familiar with that term.

Yes I agree, no working-class Catholic has ever become US president - being a Catholic was enough of a handicap for Kennedy with all his connections.

Of course lots of them have gone places in the House and Senate. One of them, Joe Biden, will become the first Catholic VP to the best of my knowlege.


Yep pretty sure he is the first VP. I've read it quite a few times though it's really just as more an aside. It's lost it's 'it's a big deal' status.

To understand the scope of the anti-catholic sentiment of the time I just have to look to my own families lore. Mom is rife with stories of her Grandparents anti-catholic sentiments. She said they treated POC better then the catholics in the community. They absolutely refused to buy anything from a catholic and would cross over to the other side of the street when one of 'those people' made an appearance. She wrote the town gossip column and Mom said that the Catholics in town got the brunt of the mean gossip where the 'good' people just got the more innocuous lighter fare.

When Kennedy got elected Mom says that 'Grandma' locked herself in her room for two days, convinced that the world was coming to an end and that the punishment of God was going to start reigning down upon them at any moment.

Luckily my Mom's father, 'Grandmas' son, broke with that prejudice much to her horror and fear that him and her grandchildren would be damned because of it.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6874

posted 06 November 2008 11:06 AM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Trudeau wore flip-flops in parliment.
From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
HUAC
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14425

posted 06 November 2008 12:11 PM      Profile for HUAC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Turdeau lived with his mother until he was forty years of age.
From: Ottawa | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 06 November 2008 05:09 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is Obama a threat to white male hegemony?

I ask this because a babbler actually made that assertion in another thread yesterday.

Have white males now lost control of the Democratic Party, and is the United States soon to follow?

What else, if anything, do babblers think Barack O-bomb-a is a threat to? The power of the military-industrial complex? Israel? Evangelical Christianity? The Cuban exile community in Florida? The oil, gas, and coal industry? The NRA? Neo-liberal "free trade"? The death penalty? Big Pharma? Islamophobia? The war on drugs? The PATRIOT Act? The defence industry? The nuclear industry? The ethanol industry? The welfare bums of Wall Street? The Taft-Hartley Act?

Are the right-wing bloggers and forum posters correct in their apocalyptic predictions of how Obama will soon make Amurrica unrecognizable?


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14683

posted 06 November 2008 05:21 PM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

Are the right-wing bloggers and forum posters correct in their apocalyptic predictions of how Obama will soon make Amurrica unrecognizable?




We live in hope!


------


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355

posted 06 November 2008 05:39 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by George Victor:


We live in hope!


------


LOL. I thought many a time, gee it would be great if some of these things that they're accusing him of being were true.

The "OMG he was a member of the socialist/marxist New Party circa 1995ish" was one.

Here
Here
and Here

With this one I actually do think there is a kernel of truth, that there was some sort of loose support in an election but not a membership.

Not that it should matter. I read a list of people that supported the New Party mandate but I can't find it now, I remember people like Chomsky, Howard Zinn and about a dozen others who I recognized and actually have their books on my shelf.
Of course this list was a 'look look' evil people list. Made me laugh.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130

posted 06 November 2008 05:56 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've been looking in on a website that I really prefer not to link to, or even refer to for that matter, but there is a considerable constituency which believes that Obama is the antichrist, or at least his minion, that he represents the opening of the seventh seal, and that the end time have pretty much started. I should say that these people see themselves as the real voice of mainstream conservativism. Principled even.

We may wish to consider stocking up on drinking water, canned goods, and ammo.


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 06 November 2008 06:00 PM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I might as well finish off that survival bunker out in the backyard before the frost sets.
From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 06 November 2008 06:01 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is why babblers who talk about Obomba representing the end of old-fashioned racism in Amerika are just peddling B.S. Racism is alive and well, and getting a big shot in the arm.
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355

posted 06 November 2008 06:02 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by oldgoat:
I've been looking in on a website that I really prefer not to link to, or even refer to for that matter, but there is a considerable constituency which believes that Obama is the antichrist, or at least his minion, that he represents the opening of the seventh seal, and that the end time have pretty much started. I should say that these people see themselves as the real voice of mainstream conservativism. Principled even.

We may wish to consider stocking up on drinking water, canned goods, and ammo.


I know that exact post!

It hasn't helped that apparently the numbers in the Illinois State lottery came up '666' yesterday.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 06 November 2008 06:05 PM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
This is why babblers who talk about Obomba representing the end of old-fashioned racism in Amerika are just peddling B.S. Racism is alive and well, and getting a big shot in the arm.

Which babblers have made that argument?


From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355

posted 06 November 2008 06:08 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

[ 06 November 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289

posted 06 November 2008 06:27 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
This is why babblers who talk about Obomba representing the end of old-fashioned racism in Amerika are just peddling B.S. Racism is alive and well, and getting a big shot in the arm.

Funny, I thought people were actually arguing the fact that it represents black empowerment, and represents the fact that barriers were now coming down, in the minds of those who had thought they would forever be oppressed, and thought of as less than. Of course there will be racist shits like Ralph Nader for a long time yet.

Moreover, what are you suggesting by your injection the arm commentary? Are you suggesting that a black person, or any other POC, should never seek the highest office in halls of power as it will actually increase racism??

[ 06 November 2008: Message edited by: remind ]


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11463

posted 06 November 2008 06:46 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Slumberjack: Which babblers have made that argument?

Oh, you can catch whiffs of it here and especially there.

From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289

posted 06 November 2008 06:53 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Still doing drive bys Martin? Good work, keep it up, refreshing to see the mask dropping.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 06 November 2008 06:54 PM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:

Oh, you can catch whiffs of it here and especially there.

There was skepticism throughout that thread. Even AE in his exuberance, spoke of hope, as opposed to certainty.


From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 06 November 2008 06:58 PM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Benoit might want to swing by here for an example of how a 'deliberative assembly' works.
From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11463

posted 06 November 2008 07:08 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Are you suggesting that a black person, or any other POC, should never seek the highest office in halls of power as it will actually increase racism?

No, I don't think so. I think the problem is that we have this great outrushing of self-congratulation about a great defeat for racism, but mostly by white pundits and observers and it is often done in the name of still-oppressed minorities.
Indeed, I find it a little questionable when your main argument is that "barriers are now coming down, in the minds of those who had thought they would forever be oppressed", when in fact almost all of us agree that these barriers and systems that our White culture has erected - and recently reinforced by reelecting a racist shit like Stephen Harper - are still up and viciously destroying lives at home and all over the world.
This is too close to psychologizing the racism issue and foisting it on Black people's mental attitudes, that are now improving.
This isn't about you either, we all indulge more or less in that happy self-talk - anything else is blasted as "cynicism" or raining on their parade...
It's a problem that crops up all the time whenever someone from a dominant group offers any kind of sunny assessment in the name of oppressed groups. Political and media leaders do that all the time and don't we acknowledge and hate it!
Our racism and especially our racist systems are clearly alive and well, regardless of what minorities feel about their opportunities, and this is what those of us who are White ought to be addressing, instead of relaying and spreading self-congratulatory discourse (as fast as we can before the U.S.'s new President/Chief of the Armed Forces/Emperor steps up the bombing of Afghan and Pakistani civilians, the harassment of Mexican "aliens", the disposession of U.S.-based First Nations, etc.)
(Off the soapbox and facing consequences)

[ 06 November 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289

posted 06 November 2008 07:17 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry Martin, as you are not part of an oppressed group, and thus will never know the feeling of it, and thus cannot experience the hope that comes from seeing at least one major wall come crashing down, I put little, if any credence in your words of condemation against those who do...

Your posts against Steinhem's words were very indicative.

[ 06 November 2008: Message edited by: remind ]


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 06 November 2008 07:20 PM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
...this is what those of us who are White ought to be addressing, instead of relaying and spreading self-congratulatory discourse...

I don't believe that recognition of a milestone in itself, on one merit alone, needs to morph into collective self-delusion. Who are we to tell them what they should feel about it. Isn’t that white supremacy as well?


From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 06 November 2008 07:22 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Slumberjack:
Which babblers have made that argument?
Read the OP in this thread, about how racism has been banished to the fringes of US society.

Also read what remind says in this thread (above) about how Obama's victory "represents black empowerment, and represents the fact that barriers were now coming down..."


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 06 November 2008 07:28 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Slumberjack:
Who are we to tell them what they should feel about it. Isn’t that white supremacy as well?
There's an awful lot of white people around telling the blacks that they should rejoice now that the walls have come crashing down and that other whites should be entirely uncritical of Obama or else be accused of racism.

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 06 November 2008 07:34 PM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
Read the OP in this thread, about how racism has been banished to the fringes of US society.
Also read what remind says in this thread (above) about how Obama's victory "represents black empowerment, and represents the fact that barriers were now coming down..."

His closing comment in that OP:

quote:
I hope so and I'd like to think so. What do you guys think?

He's asking questions throughout the post, even pondering his own naivety at the thought. I see it as different than an absolute belief, or peddling BS as you described it. As for the other poster, of which I tend to skip past, you do have a point.


From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 06 November 2008 07:36 PM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
There's an awful lot of white people around telling the blacks that they should rejoice now that the walls have come crashing down and that other whites should be entirely uncritical of Obama or else be accused of racism.

I've seen it all over the place as well. Just not around here as you describe it.


From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 06 November 2008 07:37 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It does stand as an act of black empowerment.

One of the things that I thought was so interesting about Colin Powell's recent statement about Barak's muslimness, and its lack or relevance, was the implicit message that certain forms of anti-racist analysis can be maintained in an capitalist and imperialist environment. The US stands as an state edifice that is uniquel suited for the creation of an imperialism based in a purely national construct, and not one based in ethnic nationality.

I for one have to be entirely convinced, for example, that Rome was inhernetly racist, in the manner that European imperialism is ideologically racist, and I think it is perfectly possible for imperial power to act in a repressive manner free of racial identification. However much I think racism might serve as a tool of imperial power, I am not sure it is absolutely necessary.

To be fully enfranchised in the US means that one can fully share in its imperial process. I guess the hope is that the acceptance of people of colour into the corridors of power in the US will break open the old paradigm, and open the corridors to new ones beyond race politics.

That is a hope that is worth having. But hope is an intangible that should always be connected to a hard nosed and realistic analysis.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 06 November 2008 07:40 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Slumberjack:
I see it as different than an absolute belief, or peddling BS as you described it.
Just throwing out a wacky idea and asking people to comment on it qualifies as peddling BS in my lexicon. It doesn't need to be an "absolute belief".

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355

posted 06 November 2008 07:41 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
Read the OP in this thread, about how racism has been banished to the fringes of US society.

Also read what remind says in this thread (above) about how Obama's victory "represents black empowerment, and represents the fact that barriers were now coming down..."


No M.Spector, I'm sorry but that's just BS. Read that OP again. I saw speculation and then questions
about that speculation not some outright statement that it was a fact. Then I read a bunch of discussion about that speculation not outright suggestions that racism had somehow been banished.

And if you can't see how symbolically it does represent a barrier then you are seriously out of touch. This past couple of days I have read and seen on TV comments from POC who have talked about exactly that, including numerous African Americans who have been involved in the civil rights struggle their whole lives. None have said, 'Oh good it's over, all fixed, all better, no more racism, the work is over' but every single one has talked about the symbolism and the barrier and what it represents. Reminds comments are more then a fair representation of what those people are saying.

You don't even need to read anything, you can just go and look at the thousands of pictures taken from all over the US and see it in the emotion in peoples faces. It's there. It MEANS something.

I've talked with my own POC friends as well as FN's friends and it MEANS something symbolically to every single one of them that I've talked with.
Including my own husband.

Honestly these constant holier then thou put downs to anyone here that dares say how anything remotely positive happened without out a paragraph of 'yes but systematic racism is obviously still around disclaimers, yes but, yes but are getting really tedious.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10108

posted 06 November 2008 07:46 PM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
Just throwing out a wacky idea and asking people to comment on it qualifies as peddling BS in my lexicon. It doesn't need to be an "absolute belief".

quote:
Is affirmative action really no longer necessary or justifiable when we jsut elected a black graduate of Columbia and harvard to the most powerful job in the world? Should Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton find a new line of work?

I just re-read this. You're right, the whole post is BS.


From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289

posted 06 November 2008 08:05 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ElizaQ:
I've talked with my own POC friends as well as FN's friends and it MEANS something symbolically to every single one of them that I've talked with.
Including my own husband.

Exactly, including my partner and daughter as well!


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
wage zombie
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7673

posted 06 November 2008 09:54 PM      Profile for wage zombie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
There's an awful lot of white people around telling the blacks that they should rejoice now that the walls have come crashing down and that other whites should be entirely uncritical of Obama or else be accused of racism.

That's what's going on? There's an awful lot of white people around telling the blacks that they should rejoice?


From: sunshine coast BC | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273

posted 06 November 2008 10:24 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by wage zombie:
That's what's going on? There's an awful lot of white people around telling the blacks that they should rejoice?
Read the article in the opening post of this thread, in which a white man makes scurrilous accusations against anybody who isn't engaged in wild celebrations over the election of Barack Obomba. This article receives high praise from several babblers.

If that isn't telling black people they should be rejoicing, I don't know what is.

Then check out this passage from a major Canadian newspaper column:

quote:
I'm proud, too, proud and profoundly moved, that black Americans who haven't bothered to vote in years are voting today. I see them and I cry. The racial conversation will never end, but it will be different. The bitter narrative of oppression and grievance is over. The narrative of possibility - of Martin Luther King - can begin again.

I'm under no illusion that Americans will start holding hands tomorrow and sing Kumbaya. I have no idea whether Barack Obama will be able to succeed, or even muddle through, with the nasty hand he's been dealt. But I do know that what's happening today is a fresh start, and a relief, and even redemptive. - Guess who


"Racism is dead. Long live racism."

[ 07 November 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11463

posted 06 November 2008 11:35 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Luckily, we can listen to Black people themselves, such as Alice Walker, author of, among other masterpieces, "The Color Purple".
Reposted from the PAR-L list:
quote:
Letter from American author and feminist Alice Walker to President Barack Obama:

Alice Walker on expectations, responsibilities and a new reality that is almost more
than the heart can bear.

Nov. 5, 2008
Dear Brother Obama,

You have no idea, really, of how profound this moment is for us. Us being the black people of the Southern United States. You think you know, because you are thoughtful, and you have studied our history. But seeing you deliver the torch so many others before you carried, year after year, decade after decade, century after century, only to be struck down before igniting the flame of justice and of law, is almost more than the heart can bear. And yet, this observation is not intended to burden you, for you are of a different time, and, indeed, because of all the relay runners before you, North America is a different place. It is really only to say: Well done. We knew, through all the generations, that you were with us, in us, the best of the spirit of Africa and of the Americas. Knowing this, that you would actually appear, someday, was part of our strength. Seeing you take your rightful place, based solely on your wisdom,
stamina and character, is a balm for the weary warriors of hope, previously only sung about.

I would advise you to remember that you did not create the disaster that the world is experiencing, and you alone are not responsible for bringing the world back to balance.
A primary responsibility that you do have, however, is to cultivate happiness in your own life. To make a schedule that permits sufficient time of rest and play with your gorgeous wife and lovely daughters. And so on. One gathers that your family is large.
We are used to seeing men in the White House soon become juiceless and as white-haired as the building; we notice their wives and children looking strained and stressed. They soon have smiles so lacking in joy that they remind us of scissors. This is no way to lead. Nor does your family deserve this fate. One way of thinking about all this is: It is so bad now that there is no excuse not to relax. From your happy, relaxed state, you can model real success, which is all that so many people in the world really want. They may buy endless cars and houses and furs and gobble up all the attention and space they can manage, or barely manage, but this is because it is not yet clear to them that success is truly an inside job. That it is within the reach of almost everyone.

I would further advise you not to take on other people's enemies. Most damage that others do to us is out of fear, humiliation and pain. Those feelings occur in all of us, not just in those of us who profess a certain religious or racial devotion. We must learn actually not to have enemies, but only confused adversaries who are ourselves in disguise. It is understood by all that you are commander in chief of the United States and are sworn to protect our beloved country; this we understand, completely. However, as my mother used to say, quoting a Bible with which I often fought, "hate the sin, but love the sinner." There must be no more crushing of whole communities, no more torture, no more dehumanizing as a means of ruling a people's spirit. This has already happened to people of color, poor people, women, children. We see where this leads, where it has led.

A good model of how to "work with the enemy" internally is presented by the Dalai Lama, in his endless caretaking of his soul as he confronts the Chinese government that invaded Tibet. Because, finally, it is the soul that must be preserved, if one is to remain a credible leader. All else might be lost; but when the soul dies, the connection to earth, to peoples, to animals, to rivers, to mountain ranges, purple and majestic, also dies. And your smile, with which we watch you do gracious battle with unjust characterizations, distortions and lies, is that expression of healthy self-worth, spirit and soul, that, kept happy and free and relaxed, can find an answering smile in all of us, lighting our way, and brightening the world.

We are the ones we have been waiting for.

In Peace and Joy,
Alice Walker


[ 06 November 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 07 November 2008 12:21 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Black Israeli Voices on Obama's Victory

quote:
The day following Obama's victory, the following discussion – or better: exchange – took place. Reflecting much of what Ethiopian Israelis are concerned about (racism, voluntary vs. imposed seclusion, etc.), as well as the analogies and associations Obama arouses and their limits, it is reproduced here in an almost unedited translation.


A: Herzl said, "if you want, it's not a legend". Yes we can, too.

B: Of course Yes we can, too, but Obama did not segregate himself but rather connected to the American society and made it to become president. Whoever segregates himself cannot win support of all ranks of society.

C: Bravo to the Americans! How did people who had voted for Bush make such a change and elect someone like Obama?! I am really surprised that so many whites voted for him, but it's very good also for the future of the Ethiopians in Israel.

D: How can you compare the blacks in the USA to the Ethiopians in Israel? The blacks in the US might feel racism occasionally, but they are very well integrated in the society, hold high posts etc. In Israel, even seeing an Ethiopian in an exercise club seems strange. There's no similarity between the two societies. Not that I support it – on the contrary. We have created this state of affairs ourselves, by thinking we are better than others. Why did we encourage Aliya in the first place?!

E: There is room for comparison, and in Israel it should even be easier. First, because in Israel there never was a situation of "slaves and masters". Second, because here there have already been precedents of people of "weaker" communities in high positions, so there's no reason why it shouldn't happen with the Ethiopian community as well. I don't see any reason why we won't see more and more Ethiopians in very high positions in Israel.

D: All you say is theoretically true, but in fact very remote from reality. Go to every town in Israel and see the complete separation between normal neighborhoods and those where Ethiopians live. The Ethiopians have been living in Israel for almost 30 years, but they still feel like newcomers. So there's still a long way to go. And as for "slaves and masters": we are the most class-oriented society of all. It's a bit naïve of you to claim otherwise, while there's a clear division in every possible area.

F: This separation emerged out of Ethiopians' own will to live within their community, like everybody else. The problem is that it eventually harms them; had they wanted, they would have tried to assimilate into the general society.

G: You are absolutely right in what you say about the Ethiopians, and Israeli society here not being ready yet to let the black man integrate. Even the tiniest things, like going to an exercise club or walking with a dog on the street, still arouse negative feelings. Yes! A black person can just walk with a dog on the street, but it looks strange to the observer. But before we black people accuse the "whites" of their racism towards us, we should check ourselves and find out who the real racist is, and it's no secret that we hate and envy the success of others within the community, and that granting others' their success is utterly unknown among us.

C: Racism and chauvinism in Israel are much greater than in the US. Even the Americans needed more than a hundred years to elect a black president – and don't forget he's mixed. Israel is one of the most racist states on earth, it would take us quite a while to see an eastern Jew as president here.

H: Wake up man, we've already had an eastern president, Moshe Katzav!

I: A president in Israel is a just symbolic and not an operative post, it has no impact on life here, unlike Prime Minister.

J: Soon in Israel too: an Israeli Ethiopian for head of state. Obama is a man who inspires and gives hope to many black all over the world, and proves that in spite of the white man's racism and arrogance towards non-whites, one can still break ahead and bring about change. Obama did it in America, and the Ethio-Israeli [can do it] in Israel.



From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6874

posted 07 November 2008 12:23 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What Alice Walker asks of Obama is something I'm not so sure he'll be able to accomplish. He's taking on a greater burden and facing higher expectations than any president-elect since at least FDR... possibly Lincoln. He's also already had to go through bruising primary and general elections. He already looks like he's aged 5 years.

But the guy knows the value of rest. Discussed as much with David Cameron back in August.


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Left J.A.B.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9046

posted 07 November 2008 12:39 PM      Profile for Left J.A.B.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My late mother was a Freedom Rider. If she had lived to see this day she would have broken down in tears.

The issue of whether Obama is pure enough or not is irrelevant. A monumental change has occured in America. I am proud to have cast an absentee ballot for Obama. Change starts one little action at a time. Rosa Parks in 1955 did not know that she would help to ignite the modern civil rights movement over the position she sat on that bus. Sure she hoped it would get bigger, but she herself said she did not forsee the change it begot. Remember there were many who criticized MLK jr, for not being radical enough.

I have been thinking of my Mom a lot in these past few days and all the men and women who fought for a better world for their children. We had to find it here in Canada, but now maybe the example of success will spur on others to reach for more fundamental change. But Obama was right - change has come to America.


From: 4th and Main | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 07 November 2008 12:43 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Luckily, we can listen to Black people themselves, such as Alice Walker, author of, among other masterpieces, "The Color Purple".

That is a wonderful and inspiring letter.

I don't dispute the historical significance of Obama's election. And I confess to being elated at his election. And I would like to believe, I would dearly like to believe, in the possibility his presidency could represent. But I can't.

I can't because he doesn't want to end war, but to refocus it. When given he opportunity, he didn't stand with the oppressed, but with the oppressors. Among those with whom he has surrounded himself are the very same people who are the architects of all that threatens not just our prosperity, but our planet.

Today, Obama is meeting with economists and among them are those who planned the deregulation and policies that targeted African American families for subprime mortgages that now has left so many broke and homeless or on the verge of being broke and homeless. And around the table is not one of those people. Not one.

How does he make change for them when they are not even party to the discussion?

[ 07 November 2008: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca