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Author Topic: So is this what you want one heartbeat away from the White House?
NorthReport
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posted 24 September 2008 08:54 PM      Profile for NorthReport     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How old is John McCain anyway?

ABOUT SARAH PALIN

by Anne Kilkenny


I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Sarah since 1992. Everyone here
knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a first-name basis. Our
children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child's favorite
substitute teacher. I also am on a first name basis with her parents and
mother-in-law. I attended more City Council meetings during her administration
than about 99% of the residents of the city.


She is enormously popular; in every way she's like the most popular girl in
middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice and won't vote for her
can't quit smiling when talking about her because she is a "babe".


It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She kept her
most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents for seven months.


She is "pro-life". She recently gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby. There is
no cover-up involved, here; Trig is her baby.


She is energetic and hardworking. She regularly worked out at the gym.


She is savvy. She doesn't take positions; she just "puts things out there" and
if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit.


Her husband works a union job on the North Slope for BP and is a champion
snowmobile racer. Todd Palin's kind of job is highly sought-after because of
the schedule and high pay. He arranges his work schedule so he can fish for
salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or so in summer, but by no stretch of the
imagination is fishing their major source of income. Nor has her life-style ever
been anything like that of native Alaskans.


Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters.


She's smart.


Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000 (at the
time), and less than 2 years as governor of a state with about 670,000
residents.


During her mayoral administration most of the actual work of running this small
city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this
administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some
trouble over precipitous firings which had given rise to a recall campaign.


Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative". During her 6 years
as Mayor, she increased general government expenditures by over 33%. During
those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the City increased by 38%.
This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive
property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax which taxed even food. The
tax cuts that she promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more
than they benefited residents.


The huge increases in tax revenues during her mayoral administration weren't
enough to fund everything on her wish list though, borrowed money was needed,
too. She inherited a city with zero debt, but left it with indebtedness of over
$22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was
it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant
that the city lacked? or a new library? No. $1m for a park. $15m-plus for
construction of a multi-use sports complex which she rushed through to build on
a piece of property that the City didn't even have clear title to, that was
still in litigation 7 yrs later--to the delight of the lawyers involved! The
sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit,
not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for
$5.5m for road projects that could have been done in 5-7 yrs without any
borrowing.


While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office redecorated more
than once.


These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city.


As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus in
Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will make us energy
independent and increase efficiency, as Governor she proposed distribution of
this surplus to every individual in the state.


In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she recommended that
the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while she proposed distribution of
surplus state revenues: spend today's surplus, borrow for needs.


She's not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or
compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren't generated by her or her
staff. Ideas weren't evaluated on their merits, but on the basis of who
proposed them.


While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City
Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library
some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of
the City Librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so
Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her
attempt to oust the Librarian are on her enemies list to this day.


Sarah complained about the "old boy's club" when she first ran for Mayor,
so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys". Palin fired most of the
experienced staff she inherited. At the City and as Governor she hired or
elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people, creating a staff totally dependent
on her for their jobs and eternally grateful and fiercely loyal--loyal to the
point of abusing their power to further her personal agenda, as she has
acknowledged happened in the case of pressuring the State's top cop (see
below).


As Mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla's Police Chief because he "intimidated" her,
she told the press. As Governor, her recent firing of Alaska's top cop has the
ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure and she had every legal
right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that an important factor in her
decision to fire him was because he wouldn't fire her sister's ex-husband, a
State Trooper. Under investigation for abuse of power, she has had to admit that
more than 2 dozen contacts were made between her staff and family to the person
that she later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to
replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded for
sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew her support.


She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in help. The
City Council person who personally escorted her around town introducing her to
voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council became one of her first
targets when she was later elected Mayor. She abruptly fired her loyal City
Administrator; even people who didn't like the guy were stunned by this
ruthlessness.


Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything publicly
about her.


When then-Governor Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got the
best, Chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission: one of the few
jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no background in oil & gas
issues. Within months of scoring this great job which paid $122,400/yr, she was
complaining in the press about the high salary. I was told that she hated that
job: the commute, the structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a
member of this Commission (who was also the State Chair of the Republican Party)
engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which some undoubtedly
cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all her problems in one
fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and garnered gobs of media attention as
the patron saint of ethics and as a gutsy fighter against the "old boys'
club" when she dramatically quit, exposing this man's ethics violations (for
which he was fined).


As Mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from Senator Ted
Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel politics and publicly
humiliated him. She only opposed the "bridge to nowhere" after it became
clear that it would be unwise not to.


As Governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget guidelines, then
made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing projects, calling them pork.
Public outcry and further legislative action restored most of these
projects--which had been vetoed simply because she was not aware of their
importance--but with the unobservant she had gained a reputation as "
anti-pork".


She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The State party leaders hate
her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated them. Other members of
the party object to her self-description as a fiscal conservative.


Around Wasilla there are people who went to high school with Sarah. They call
her "Sarah Barracuda" because of her unbridled ambition and predatory
ruthlessness. Before she became so powerful, very ugly stories circulated around
town about shenanigans she pulled to be made point guard on the high school
basketball team. When Sarah's mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the
community and experienced manager, ran for Mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her.


As Governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package of
legislation known as "AGIA" that forced the oil companies to march to the
beat of her drum.


Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to global warming. She
campaigned "as a private citizen" against a state initiaitive that would
have either a) protected salmon streams from pollution from mines, or b) tied up
in the courts all mining in the state (depending on who you listen to). She has
pushed the State's lawsuit against the Dept. of the Interior's decision to
list polar bears as threatened species.


McCain is the oldest person to ever run for President; Sarah will be a heartbeat
away from being President.


There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more knowledgeable and
experienced than she.


However, there's a lot of people who have underestimated her and are
regretting it.



CLAIM VS FACT
•"Hockey mom": true for a few years
•"PTA mom": true years ago when her first-born was in elementary school,
not since
•"NRA supporter": absolutely true
•social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, BUT vetoed a bill that
would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships (said she did
this because it was unconsitutional).
•pro-creationism: mixed. Supports it, BUT did nothing as Governor to promote
it.
•"Pro-life": mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby BUT
declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation
•"Experienced": Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has
residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska. No
legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on supervisory or
managerial experience; needed help of a city administrator to run town of about
5,000.
•political maverick: not at all
•gutsy: absolutely!
•open & transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at
explaining actions.
•has a developed philosophy of public policy: no
•"a Greenie": no. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and
disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR.
•fiscal conservative: not by my definition!
•pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a city without
a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built streets to early 20th
century standards.
•pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax burden on
residents
•pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city government in
Wasilla's history.
•pro-labor/pro-union. No. Just because her husband works union doesn't make
her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim that she is
pro-labor/pro-union.


WHY AM I WRITING THIS?


First, I have long believed in the importance of being an informed voter. I am a
voter registrar. For 10 years I put on student voting programs in the schools.
If you google my name (Anne Kilkenny + Alaska), you will find references to my
participation in local government, education, and PTA/parent organizations.


Secondly, I've always operated in the belief that "Bad things happen when good
people stay silent". Few people know as much as I do because few have gone to as
many City Council meetings.


Third, I am just a housewife. I don't have a job she can bump me out of. I don't
belong to any organization that she can hurt. But, I am no fool; she is
immensely popular here, and it is likely that this will cost me somehow in the
future: that's life.


Fourth, she has hated me since back in 1996, when I was one of the 100 or so
people who rallied to support the City Librarian against Sarah's attempt at
censorship.


Fifth, I looked around and realized that everybody else was afraid to say
anything because they were somehow vulnerable.


CAVEATS
I am not a statistician. I developed the numbers for the increase in spending &
taxation 2 years ago (when Palin was running for Governor) from information
supplied to me by the Finance Director of the City of Wasilla, and I can't
recall exactly what I adjusted for: did I adjust for inflation? for population
increases? Right now, it is impossible for a private person to get any info out
of City Hall--they are swamped. So I can't verify my numbers.


You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for the
population of Wasilla, ranging from my "about 5,000", up to 9,000. The day
Palin's selection was announced a city official told me that the current
population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was 5,460. I have used
about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to 2002, and the city was growing
rapidly in the mid-90's.


Anne Kilkenny
annekilkenny@hotmail.com
August 31, 2008


David Osborne
Public Strategies Group
David@psg.us
25 Belcher St.
Essex, MA 01929
978 768 3244

[ 24 September 2008: Message edited by: NorthReport ]


From: From sea to sea to sea | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 24 September 2008 10:19 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wow - what a pathetic interview she had with Katie Couric:

quote:
Couric: You've said, quote, "John McCain will reform the way Wall Street does business." Other than supporting stricter regulations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago, can you give us any more example of his leading the charge for more oversight?

Palin: I think that the example that you just cited, with his warnings two years ago about Fannie and Freddie - that, that's paramount. That's more than a heck of a lot of other senators and representatives did for us.

Couric: But he's been in Congress for 26 years. He's been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And he has almost always sided with less regulation, not more.

Palin: He's also known as the maverick though, taking shots from his own party, and certainly taking shots from the other party. Trying to get people to understand what he's been talking about - the need to reform government.

Couric: But can you give me any other concrete examples? Because I know you've said Barack Obama is a lot of talk and no action. Can you give me any other examples in his 26 years of John McCain truly taking a stand on this?

Palin: I can give you examples of things that John McCain has done, that has shown his foresight, his pragmatism, and his leadership abilities. And that is what America needs today.

Couric: I'm just going to ask you one more time - not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation.

Palin: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.


Did a moose eat her homework?


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
NorthReport
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posted 24 September 2008 11:27 PM      Profile for NorthReport     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The scary thing is that because of McCain's age, if the Republicans win, she really is only one heartbeat away from the While House, and she stands a good chance of taking over as President.
From: From sea to sea to sea | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 25 September 2008 06:37 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well all on has to do is take a look at the three interviews that she has done, two if you don't count the on with Sean Hannity, the fact that she won't talk to the press at all, no off the cuff press conference, that the press was actually barred from her meetings with 'world leaders' except for photos, that the McCain campaign demanded that the debate format be changed to a question and answer format because of her 'inexperience' and it just wouldn't be fair and it's quite easy to see why the suggestion of 'postponing' the VP debates has come up.
From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 25 September 2008 06:51 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why is a US Army Brigade being assigned to the 'Homeland'

quote:
For more than 100 years -- since the end of the Civil War -- deployment of the U.S. military inside the U.S. has been prohibited under The Posse Comitatus Act (the only exceptions being that the National Guard and Coast Guard are exempted, and use of the military on an emergency ad hoc basis is permitted, such as what happened after Hurricane Katrina). Though there have been some erosions of this prohibition over the last several decades (most perniciously to allow the use of the military to work with law enforcement agencies in the "War on Drugs"), the bright line ban on using the U.S. military as a standing law enforcement force inside the U.S. has been more or less honored -- until now. And as the Army Times notes, once this particular brigade completes its one-year assignment, "expectations are that another, as yet unnamed, active-duty brigade will take over and that the mission will be a permanent one."

After Hurricane Katrina, the Bush administration began openly agitating for what would be, in essence, a complete elimination of the key prohibitions of the Posse Comitatus Act in order to allow the President to deploy U.S. military forces inside the U.S. basically at will -- and, as usual, they were successful as a result of rapid bipartisan compliance with the Leader's demand (the same kind of compliance that is about to foist a bailout package on the nation). This April, 2007 article by James Bovard in The American Conservative detailed the now-familiar mechanics that led to the destruction of this particular long-standing democratic safeguard:



From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 25 September 2008 07:28 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by ElizaQ:
Why is a US Army Brigade being assigned to the 'Homeland'

Interesting, but what does it have to do with this Sarah Palin thread? Maybe I'm missing something?


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 25 September 2008 07:32 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:

Interesting, but what does it have to do with this Sarah Palin thread? Maybe I'm missing something?


Well the thread that this one was continued from moved into more a general election thread that covered much more the just Palin. The topic of the army brigade being deployed home was posted in it last night.

If North Report wants this one to be just about Palin then I can continue that old thread into a General Election thread as well I guess.

[ 25 September 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 25 September 2008 07:35 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
She has an "enemies list". And Richard Nixon was actually Vice-President under Eisenhower, and proved himself to be an unprincipled, ornery and dangerous SOB.

Yes, he could be economically flexible and pragmatic, and this same stance also led to some breakthrough diplomacy, but he could also be morally 'flexible and pragmatic'.

He had no objection to rooting through peoples' IRS records to dig up embarrassing information on them, nor did he have any issue with using the FBI as his own goon squad.

Spot the similarities to Sarah Palin, folks.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 25 September 2008 07:37 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by ElizaQ:
The topic of the army brigade being deployed home was posted in it last night.

I missed that. Sorry.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
SwimmingLee
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posted 25 September 2008 08:15 AM      Profile for SwimmingLee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
McCain is 72. I think there's a good chance she will take over the White House IF they win/ steal the presidency.

I wish there was some kind of Women's Lib Quality Control, so that when a woman finally breaks the "glass ceiling" & becomes president, the US becomes a fountain of peace & compassion.

but Sarah Palin does not evoke Peace & Compassion. She seems like something right out of the Karl Rove Playbook.


From: LASIK-FLap.com ~ Health Warning about LASIK Eye Surgery | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 25 September 2008 08:56 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by SwimmingLee:
McCain is 72. I think there's a good chance she will take over the White House IF they win/ steal the presidency.

I wish there was some kind of Women's Lib Quality Control, so that when a woman finally breaks the "glass ceiling" & becomes president, the US becomes a fountain of peace & compassion.

but Sarah Palin does not evoke Peace & Compassion. She seems like something right out of the Karl Rove Playbook.


If Palin gets into office I really wouldn't count it as breaking the glass ceiling. The folks in control of that ceiling have made a big hole for her to climb through. No breaking needed.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 25 September 2008 09:01 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Palin Calls for 'Surge' in Afghanistan

quote:
In the second part of CBS News' sit down with anchor Katie Couric, the conversation will switch to matters abroad, including the ongoing conflict on Afghanistan. Palin's obviously been well coached in the nuances of McCain foreign policy! At least well enough to deploy the term "Surge" whenever you don't have a cogent strategy to suggest.

COURIC: Why is it much more challenging there? Can you explain that?


PALIN: The logistics that we are already suggesting here, not having enough troops in the area right now. The... things like the terrain even in Afghanistan and that border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where, you know, we believe that-- Bin Laden is-- is hiding out right now and... and is still such a leader of this terrorist movement. There... there are many more challenges there. So, again, I believe that... a surge in Afghanistan also will lead us to victory there as it has proven to have done in Iraq. And as I say, Katie, that we cannot afford to retreat, to withdraw in Iraq. That's not gonna get us any better off in Afghanistan either. And as our leaders are telling us in our military, we do need to ramp it up in Afghanistan, counting on our friends and allies to assist with us there because these terrorists who hate America, they hate what we stand for with the... the freedoms, the democracy, the... the women's rights, the tolerance, they hate what it is that we represent and our allies, too, and our friends, what they represent. If we were... were to allow a stronghold to be captured by these terrorists then the world is in even greater peril than it is today. We cannot afford to lose in Afghanistan.



????


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Monsieur Firmaments
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posted 25 September 2008 09:24 AM      Profile for Monsieur Firmaments     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Forget Sahrah Palin - she makes Rona Ambrose look credible. The type of female role model for our young people is Audrey McLaughlin, the first Woman to be leader of a Canadian political party when she led the NDP from 1989-1995. Olivia Chow and Anne Lagace Dowson continue that tradition.
From: Montréal | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 25 September 2008 10:56 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur Firmaments:
Forget Sahrah Palin - she makes Rona Ambrose look credible. The type of female role model for our young people is Audrey McLaughlin, the first Woman to be leader of a Canadian political party when she led the NDP from. Olivia Chow and Anne Lagace Dowson continue that tradition.

Well if you're talking about role models I totally agree. Forget it. It's hard though to completely 'forget' her though considering she very well could be hoisted into the role of 2nd to the one of the most powerful positions in the world.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 25 September 2008 11:03 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
COURIC: You've cited Alaska's proximity to Russia as part of your foreign policy experience. What did you mean by that?

PALIN: That Alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, Russia, and on our other side, the land-- boundary that we have with-- Canada. It-- it's funny that a comment like that was-- kind of made to-- cari-- I don't know, you know? Reporters--

COURIC: Mock?

PALIN: Yeah, mocked, I guess that's the word, yeah.

COURIC: Explain to me why that enhances your foreign policy credentials.

PALIN: Well, it certainly does because our-- our next door neighbors are foreign countries. They're in the state that I am the executive of. And there in Russia--

COURIC: Have you ever been involved with any negotiations, for example, with the Russians?

PALIN: We have trade missions back and forth. We-- we do-- it's very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia as Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-- where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border. It is-- from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there. They are right next to-- to our state.


Link to Couric video

The thought that this person could be President is absolutely astounding. It's painful.
Whats even more unbelievable is the numbers of people that think she would be great and the best President evah. I say President because out of any VP candidate she has the most chance of having to take on that role and there is already talk of her running for the next POTUS after this term.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Le Téléspectateur
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posted 25 September 2008 11:40 AM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Seems like standard GWB stuff. Are we supposed to be shocked that the Republicans have put forward another know-nothing, xenophobic, ignorant-of-world-affairs, down-home-boy/girl candidate?

Hasn't anyone seen the Simpsons' movie?


From: More here than there | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
wage zombie
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posted 25 September 2008 12:45 PM      Profile for wage zombie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: sunshine coast BC | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 25 September 2008 04:53 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Le Téléspectateur:
Seems like standard GWB stuff. Are we supposed to be shocked that the Republicans have put forward another know-nothing, xenophobic, ignorant-of-world-affairs, down-home-boy/girl candidate?

Hasn't anyone seen the Simpsons' movie?


This one is actually way worse then GWB stuff, never thought that was possible. It's even shocking many Republicans.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
SwimmingLee
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posted 26 September 2008 05:51 AM      Profile for SwimmingLee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wow F'ing Wow.

Palin Interview @ Alternet, in 3 parts

people need to do what they're good at. maybe she'll start a blog on wilderness survival, moose-butchering, how to start a cantakerous snowmobile.


From: LASIK-FLap.com ~ Health Warning about LASIK Eye Surgery | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 26 September 2008 06:47 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here's two views from people that are considered Pro-Republican pundits.
How to Solve the Palin Problem
quote:
If at one time women were considered heretical for swimming upstream against feminist orthodoxy, they now face condemnation for swimming downstream – away from Sarah Palin.

To express reservations about her qualifications to be vice president – and possibly president – is to risk being labeled anti-woman.

Or, as I am guilty of charging her early critics, supporting only a certain kind of woman.

Some of the passionately feminist critics of Ms. Palin who attacked her personally deserved some of the backlash they received. But circumstances have changed since Ms. Palin was introduced as just a hockey mom with lipstick – what a difference a financial crisis makes – and a more complicated picture has emerged.

As we've seen and heard more from John McCain's running mate, it is increasingly clear that she is a problem. Quick study or not, she doesn't know enough about economics and foreign policy to make Americans comfortable with a President Palin should conditions warrant her promotion.
-----------------------------
Finally, Ms. Palin's narrative is fun, inspiring and all-American in that frontier way we seem to admire. When Ms. Palin first emerged as Mr. McCain's running mate, I confess I was delighted. She was the antithesis and nemesis of the hirsute, Birkenstock-wearing sisterhood – a refreshing feminist of a different order who personified the modern successful working mother.
----------------------------------
If BS were currency, Ms. Palin could bail out Wall Street herself.

If Ms. Palin were a man, we'd all be guffawing, just as we do every time Joe Biden tickles the back of his throat with his toes. But because she's a woman – and the first on a Republican presidential ticket – we are reluctant to say what is painfully true.

What to do?

Mr. McCain can't repudiate his choice for running mate. He not only risks the wrath of the GOP's unforgiving base, but he invites others to second-guess his executive decision-making ability. Mr. Obama faces the same problem with Mr. Biden.

Only Ms. Palin can save Mr. McCain, her party and the country she loves. She can bow out for personal reasons, perhaps because she wants to spend more time with her newborn. No one would criticize a mother who puts her family first.

Do it for your country.



Palins American Exception

quote:
Sarah Palin loves the word “exceptional.” At a rally in Nevada the other day, the Republican vice-presidential candidate said: “We are an exceptional nation.” Then she declared: “America is an exceptional country.” In case anyone missed that, she added: “You are all exceptional Americans.”

I have to hand it to Palin, she may be onto something in her batty way: the election is very much about American exceptionalism.

This is the idea, around since the founding fathers, and elaborated on by Alexis de Tocqueville, that the United States is a nation unlike any other with a special mission to build the “city upon a hill” that will serve as liberty’s beacon for mankind.

But exceptionalism has taken an ugly twist of late. It’s become the angry refuge of the America that wants to deny the real state of the world.

From an inspirational notion, however flawed in execution, that has buttressed the global spread of liberty, American exceptionalism has morphed into the fortress of those who see themselves threatened by “one-worlders” (read Barack Obama) and who believe it’s more important to know how to dress moose than find Mumbai.
--------------------------
But, let’s face it, from Baghdad to Bear Stearns the last eight years have been a lesson in the price of exceptionalism run amok.

To persist with a philosophy grounded in America’s separateness, rather than its connectedness, would be devastating at a time when the country faces two wars, a financial collapse unseen since 1929, commodity inflation, a huge transfer of resources to the Middle East, and the imperative to develop new sources of energy.

Enough is enough.
------------------
I’m going to try to make this simple. On the Democratic side you have a guy whose campaign has been based on the Internet, who believes America may have something to learn from other countries (like universal health care) and who’s unafraid in 2008 to say he’s a “proud citizen of the United States and a fellow citizen of the world.”

On the Republican side, you have a guy who, in 2008, is just discovering the Net and Google and whose No. 2 is a woman who got a passport last year and believes she understands Russia because Alaska is closer to Siberia than Alabama.

If I were Obama, I’d put it this way: “Senator McCain, the world you claim to understand is the world of yesterday. A new century demands new thinking. Our country cannot be made fundamentally secure by a man who thought our economy was fundamentally sound.”
-------------------------
Palinism has its intellectual roots. But it’s dangerous for a country in need of realism not rage. I’m sure Henry Kissinger tried to instill Realpolitik in the governor of Alaska this week, but the angry exceptionalism that is Palinism is not in the reason game.



From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 26 September 2008 08:49 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Great Debate About the Debate

The debate are on. After deciding that he's done enough to save the economy and it's safe to leave Washington McCain will be attending the debate.

Not sure why though. He's apparently already won according to his web ads on the net today.
McCain wins Debate!

[ 26 September 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 26 September 2008 08:57 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Stop the Drama, Vote Obama.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 26 September 2008 08:59 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ha! Good slogan.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 26 September 2008 09:00 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Can't take credit for it, but it's apropos.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 26 September 2008 09:04 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think we should all get a vote in the American election.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 26 September 2008 09:09 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That would certainly help.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 27 September 2008 03:27 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
McCain Camp Prays For Palin Wedding

quote:
IN an election campaign notable for its surprises, Sarah Palin, the Republican vice- presidential candidate, may be about to spring a new one — the wedding of her pregnant teenage daughter to her ice-hockey-playing fiancé before the November 4 election.

Inside John McCain’s campaign the expectation is growing that there will be a popularity boosting pre-election wedding in Alaska between Bristol Palin, 17, and Levi Johnston, 18, her schoolmate and father of her baby. “It would be fantastic,” said a McCain insider. “You would have every TV camera there. The entire country would be watching. It would shut down the race for a week.”


Absolutely nothing would surprise me this election. What just seems absolutely nutz just doesn't seem so anymore.

There have been net rumors flying around about some big announcement tomorrow or Monday with most speculating that it may have something to do with her removal from the ticket. When I came across this I said heck maybe this could be it, plus it does have a humorous and sorta of pathetic element.
I note also that I'm pretty sure this is a Murdoch owned paper, so if there was anyone to slip a 'leak' it would be him.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic2
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posted 27 September 2008 04:12 PM      Profile for Polunatic2   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Appropriating the feminism label is very interesting. What I haven't heard (not that I hear that much) is an analysis that says that Palin, like many women (to varying degrees of course), have benefited from the gains of the women's movement. But unless they are working toward women's equality, they have no right to be called feminists. I've heard nothing about what Paleo has done for women (except to be a role model by virtue of her successes).
From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 27 September 2008 05:19 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Read some of the other Palin threads.


And in respect to this:

quote:
Inside John McCain’s campaign the expectation is growing that there will be a popularity boosting pre-election wedding in Alaska between Bristol Palin, 17, and Levi Johnston, 18, her schoolmate and father of her baby. “It would be fantastic,” said a McCain insider. “You would have every TV camera there. The entire country would be watching. It would shut down the race for a week.”

They apparently are quite willing to publically exploit Bristol, but no one else can say a word about her, because her life is "private"!


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 27 September 2008 05:25 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Cynical opportunism coupled with vapid photogenic ease.

The worst of Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, combined. Hallelujah.

[ 27 September 2008: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 27 September 2008 05:42 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
Read some of the other Palin threads.


And in respect to this:

They apparently are quite willing to publically exploit Bristol, but no one else can say a word about her, because her life is "private"!


Yeah no kidding.

I figure this is one of three things. It's just stupid, ragmag type gossip that sells papers and not true at all, it's been planted in the hopes that American media will pick up on it and the speculation over 'if' will catch on and distract from all the questioning of Palin that's happening right now or it's actually true.

If it's true I totally agree with Dr. Conways assessment and that the strategists are the most base level human beings and utter morons, operating in some sort of alternate dimension.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 27 September 2008 05:53 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Who won the debate actually?
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 27 September 2008 05:58 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
Who won the debate actually?

quote:
CNN poll results:

Who did the best job tonight?
Barack: 51
McCain: 38



From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 29 September 2008 05:57 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You feminists are going to love this one:

Sarah Palin swimsuit competition video


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 29 September 2008 06:08 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Are you sure you didn't mean "You sexists are going to love this one"? What next from Mr. Bong, a KKK comic doing Obama in blackface?

[ 29 September 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 29 September 2008 06:23 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Have no idea if I fall into the 'feminist' category but I really could give a rat's butt one way or another about some stupid video of Palin in a swimsuit. All this really does is prove that this point on her VP resume which has been bandied about, isn't actually a lie or exagerated.

And just as a side note or bit of trivia in case anyone was wondering why in the debate McCain kept using the phrase "I wasn't Miss Congeniality" it was was bait for Obama to go after Palin because that's what she won in that video.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 29 September 2008 07:20 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
Are you sure you didn't mean "You sexists are going to love this one"? What next from Mr. Bong, a KKK comic doing Obama in blackface?

[ 29 September 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


Now what, L'il Inquisitor, could you possibly mean by that?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
RosaL
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posted 29 September 2008 07:27 PM      Profile for RosaL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
Are you sure you didn't mean "You sexists are going to love this one"? What next from Mr. Bong, a KKK comic doing Obama in blackface?

[ 29 September 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


A comparable video would should Obama himself in blackface, i.e., colluding with the oppression of a group to which he himself belongs, for some short-term personal benefit.


From: the underclass | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 29 September 2008 07:30 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The analogy I point out is that, in both cases, someone from a minority group would be mocked using a demeaning stereotype in a self-interested attempt to keep him or her away from power. (This from a self-alleged progressive on a progressive board.)
From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
RosaL
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posted 29 September 2008 07:34 PM      Profile for RosaL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
The analogy I point out is that, in both cases, someone from a minority group would be mocked using a demeaning stereotype in a self-interested attempt to keep him or her away from power. (This from a self-alleged progressive on a progressive board.)

The analogy I pointed out is that, in both cases (one real, one hypothetical) someone from a minority group betrays, mocks, and demeans other members of that group by presenting a demeaning stereotype in a self-interested attempt to gain power.

I am prepared to mock the woman till kingdom come! (This from a self-alleged progressive on a progressive board.)


From: the underclass | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged
Harumph
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posted 29 September 2008 09:06 PM      Profile for Harumph     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh boy, the old sexist/racist finger pointing circle-jerk has begun. Let the faux-outrage shine.

Thread.... derailed.


From: West of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 29 September 2008 09:08 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Oh boy, the old sexist/racist finger pointing circle-jerk has begun. Let the faux-outrage shine.
Thread.... derailed.

Bah, you could ignore the finger pointing instead. After all, it's just His Holiness, St. Martin, weeding out the sinners and threatening them with eternal damnation. No big deal.

quote:
A comparable video would should Obama himself in blackface, i.e., colluding with the oppression of a group to which he himself belongs, for some short-term personal benefit.

Yeah, maybe something like that, except Palin took part in this opposite-of-feminist spectacle 25 years ago. It isn't as if she's using her Miss Alaska background for personal gain today...or is it?

Maybe a closer comparison would be that porn star who ran for high office in Italy. Then again, the more I see of US politics, the more I think the whole exercise of yanqui "democracy" is pornographic on some level.

[ 29 September 2008: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 29 September 2008 10:46 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Does this explain why you seem to be "getting off" airing this video here?
(Finger-pointers so hate having fingers pointed back at them...)

From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 30 September 2008 09:03 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
At whom do you think I am pointing fingers?

Your "I'm a gutless weenie" smilie aside, are you trying to prove that words matter by using incoherent statements accompanied by a vaguely critical tone?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 01 October 2008 05:44 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Allow me to introduce myself. I am a traitor and an idiot. Also, my mother should have aborted me and left me in a dumpster, but since she didn't, I should "off" myself.

Those are a few nuggets randomly selected from thousands of e-mails written in response to my column suggesting that Sarah Palin is out of her league and should step down.

Who says public discourse hasn't deteriorated?

The fierce reaction to my column has been both bracing and enlightening. After 20 years of column writing, I'm familiar with angry mail. But the past few days have produced responses of a different order. Not just angry, but vicious and threatening.

Some of my usual readers feel betrayed because I previously have written favorably of Palin. By changing my mind and saying so, I am viewed as a traitor to the Republican Party -- not a "true" conservative.


An Omen In My Mail


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 01 October 2008 06:03 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, Martin and al-Q, you've both made your points. Let's move on.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 01 October 2008 07:26 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Best of Sarah Palin on YouTube

The Toronto Star's collection of the choicest links to YouTube videos.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 01 October 2008 07:53 AM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Couric: What newspapers do you read?

Pallin: Um, all of them.


From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 01 October 2008 08:47 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This isn't as ridiculous as you make it seem, Scott. Politicians and journalists do read practically all major papers or have them scanned and clipped by their staff.
From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 01 October 2008 08:56 AM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
This isn't as ridiculous as you make it seem, Scott. Politicians and journalists do read practically all major papers or have them scanned and clipped by their staff.

Right. That's what she meant.

Did you watch the clip and see the deer-in-the-headlights look in her eyes as Couric pressured her on what should have been a simple question to answer?


From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 01 October 2008 09:46 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I see. Mustn't show anything like fear of the media, even in the face of a loaded question and despite the fact they have been trashing you for weeks...
From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 01 October 2008 01:03 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree with Scott. The woman is a bleating idiot.

quote:
Right. That's what she meant.

Did you watch the clip and see the deer-in-the-headlights look in her eyes as Couric pressured her on what should have been a simple question to answer?


She's no deer in the head lights. She's an anti-woman hate monger.


From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
peskyfly1
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posted 01 October 2008 03:47 PM      Profile for peskyfly1     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's just that she was searching her memory for a pre-approved scripted response. She didn't find one.
From: meandering stream | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Polly Brandybuck
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posted 01 October 2008 06:11 PM      Profile for Polly Brandybuck     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stargazer:
She's no deer in the head lights. She's an anti-woman hate monger.

Yes!


From: To Infinity...and beyond! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 01 October 2008 06:34 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It sure seems like a thin line between clueless and Machiavellian...
From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 01 October 2008 06:58 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Did you watch the clip and see the deer-in-the-headlights look in her eyes as Couric pressured her on what should have been a simple question to answer?

I read the transcript, and thus had a hard time gauging any level of fear. Nevertheless, I can imagine how I'd look if someone asked me to name one newspaper that I have read and I couldn't think of any, and I don't even have a journalism degree.

I don't know how Machiavellian one has to be to be a grasping, ambitious, untrustworthy politician, but it doesn't necessarily take any brains to have these qualities.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 02 October 2008 07:49 AM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
500_Apples
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posted 02 October 2008 08:50 AM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I am very confused I wonder if someone has a good answer.

I am under the impression that:
1) Palin is doing very badly in her intevriews with Couric.
2) There have been several interviews with Couric and she keeps going back.
3) When campaign managers see something doesn't work, they try to prevent that something from reoccuring.

There is a contradiction in my beliefs above as they cannot all be true since Palin is going to Couric again and again and looking foolish imho again and again.

What's going on?


From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 02 October 2008 09:02 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Did they do the whole series of interviews before the first one aired and was seen as an obvious trainwreck? Just a thought.

ETA:

Or has the campaign given up on the media and decided there's more to be gained by running against the media (not a novel concept for the Republicans)? Just another thought.

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: pogge ]


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 02 October 2008 09:03 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
doppelpost

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: pogge ]


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 02 October 2008 10:44 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by 500_Apples:
I am very confused I wonder if someone has a good answer.

I am under the impression that:
1) Palin is doing very badly in her intevriews with Couric.
2) There have been several interviews with Couric and she keeps going back.
3) When campaign managers see something doesn't work, they try to prevent that something from reoccuring.

There is a contradiction in my beliefs above as they cannot all be true since Palin is going to Couric again and again and looking foolish imho again and again.

What's going on?


Most if not all are from one big interview that's been shown a bit at the time over the past week. I believe that the one that was with McCain in it was taped after the big one as an attempt by the campaign to counteract the big one because the problems with the first one.
Not sure how you can see the interviews as not being true? Are you thinking they're faked or something?


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 03 October 2008 07:21 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

"Say it ain't so, Joe, there you go again pointing backwards again. You preferenced [sic] your whole comment with the Bush administration. Now doggone it, let's look ahead and tell Americans what we have to plan to do for them in the future. You mentioned education and I'm glad you did. I know education you are passionate about with your wife being a teacher for 30 years, and god bless her. Her reward is in heaven, right? I say, too, with education, America needs to be putting a lot more focus on that and our schools have got to be really ramped up in terms of the funding that they are deserving. Teachers needed to be paid more. I come from a house full of school teachers. My grandma was, my dad who is in the audience today, he's a schoolteacher, had been for many years. My brother, who I think is the best schoolteacher in the year, and here's a shout-out to all those third graders at Gladys Wood Elementary School, you get extra credit for watching the debate.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/quote-for-the-2.html

Plus, Palin's debate flow chart:

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/10/03/leaked_from_palins_debate_prep.html


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 03 October 2008 07:25 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

My completely impressionistic take on Palin's performance tonight is that it mirrorred her campaign performance so far (if not quite as dramatically): When Palin started off, you thought, "Wow, she seems so fresh--so human and easy to relate to. How can we compete with that?" Then, as the debate wore on, you thought, "Hmm, okay, she still seems human, but not quite what I'm looking for in a vice president." And, by the end, as the vacuous answers piled up, it was more like, "Good God, keep this woman away from the Oval Office."


http://tinyurl.com/4uhhj2


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 03 October 2008 07:29 AM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The sad part of this? There seems to be a huge chunk of Americans who will vote for this vapid vessel of vermin because she says things like "doggonest" and "hockey mom". It's an extremely sad state of affairs that being dumb is considered a good thing and being bright, a bad thing.

Sexy Sarah is her nickname. Yep, I am not joking.


From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 03 October 2008 07:32 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Two national polls of people who watched the U.S. vice-presidential debate and are uncommitted voters showed that more of them thought Democrat Joe Biden, not Republican Sarah Palin, turned in the best performance.

A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey found 51 per cent of those polled after Thursday night's debate in St. Louis, Mo., said the Delaware senator did the best job, while 36 per cent said the same about the Alaska governor.

. . . .

CBS News and Knowledge Networks conducted a cross-country poll of 473 uncommitted voters who watched the debate and found 46 per cent said Biden won the debate, compared to 21 per cent for Palin. Thirty-three per cent said it was a tie.



http://www.cbc.ca/world/usvotes/story/2008/10/03/us-debate-polls.html


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 03 October 2008 07:46 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I just think it's a sad commentary on the state of the US electorate that some actually consider this nincompoop Sarah Palin to be a good candidate. But, then, they've been through the experience before, wth Dan Quale and George Bush. Maybe the US is made up of nincompoops and idiots, as has been suspected by some.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 03 October 2008 07:55 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Loved the comments responding to the commentary contained in the tiny url above.

quote:
I wanted to throttle her every time she winked - as if she could force the beauty pageant days back in to the forefront.

This whole notion that she is charming leaves me cold. But then I have always thought that about Bush as well. I do not find winking phonies charming,

She's like so many women I grew up with in Calfornia - pretty, trained from a young age that that is what matters most, that flirting as manipulation and distraction can replace anything and allow you to fake your way through.

On "substance?" Um, I found it insulting as a woman and as an American that such a phony was even standing up there trying to shuck and jive and flirt her way to the highest office in the land of this beautiful and deeply distressed country. She hasn't the first clue what she is talking about. Gee, I'm touched that she wants tp prevent a second Holocaust, very deep of her.

...I greatly admire Elizabeth Dole, Kay Hutchinson, Condi Rice has had a second term that is greaty underestimated, I remain wild about Jeane Kirkpatrick and have always felt this way (not so much Whitman) although I agree very little with their politics. Hillary Clinton is many things, but empty and unqualified? Uh no. She could run the country with her eyes closed.

These are woman of substance, expertise, wisdom and they should be the most insulted of all by this slap in the face.



From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 03 October 2008 08:17 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Her relentless opacity was impressive. She refused to answer the questions where she hadn't been prepped with answers and when Biden pointed out that an early question had been on deregulation not taxes, she flashed: "I may not answer the questions the way you and the moderator want to hear, but I'm gonna talk straight to the American people."

Talk straight she didn't, with only a few exceptions. She talked talking points. And when the talking points concerned areas where she didn't know diddly, she didn't talk them very convincingly. Indeed, there were times I got the distinct impression that she didn't understand the points she was talking about (on the vice president's constitutional powers, for example).


http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1846997,00.html


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 03 October 2008 08:42 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You betcha, that was one of the best dogonnit debates I've evah seen and durn it the people that just don't understand what Joesix pack and jane soccermom are wanting hate the real America. Those questions? Yah ain't gonna tell us that they're important bunch of elitist gobbly gook and good on our gurl Sarah for smacking them down and doing it her way. Mavericks I tell yah and not only that a whole Team of Mavericks to take on those ole boys in Warshington. *wink* *wink* *wink* and for good measure *wink wink*
From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 03 October 2008 09:01 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That deserves a dern shout out, doggone it.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 03 October 2008 09:12 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by josh:
That deserves a dern shout out, doggone it.

Darn right is does, also!


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic2
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posted 03 October 2008 09:21 AM      Profile for Polunatic2   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
While I was watching the Canadian debate, I switched to the US debate and thought that I was watching Saturday Night Live which I'm going to have to try and watch this weekend for some comic relief.
From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Polly Brandybuck
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posted 03 October 2008 09:39 AM      Profile for Polly Brandybuck     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Say it ain't so, Joe, there you go again pointing backwards again. You preferenced [sic] your whole comment with the Bush administration. Now doggone it, let's look ahead and tell Americans what we have to plan to do for them in the future.

Ha! When Sarah walked onstage and immediately shouted "can I call ya Joe?" I thought to myself, oh cripes she has a one-liner somewhere up her sleeve. Bleck.


From: To Infinity...and beyond! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
jas
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posted 03 October 2008 10:45 AM      Profile for jas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
To persist with a philosophy grounded in America’s separateness, rather than its connectedness,
(quote of NYT's Roger Cohen)

I really like that statement. In just a few words, it sums up exactly what has gone so wrong with the U.S. I'm afraid Democrats fall into the same bad habit, though.


From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 03 October 2008 11:45 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Possibly the only thing worse than a Sarah Palin performance is some conservatives commentators debasing themselves in effusive praise of it. Calling it, defining competency down. Way down.

quote:

There she was, resplendent in black, striding out like a power-walker, and greeting Joe Biden like an assertive salesman, first-naming him right off the bat.

. . . . Was this woman capable of completing an extemporaneous paragraph — a collection of sentences with subjects, verbs, objects and, if possible, an actual meaning? By the end of her opening answers, it was clear she would meet the test. . . .

It took her about 15 seconds to define her persona — the straight-talking mom from regular America — and it was immediately clear that the night would be filled with tales of soccer moms, hockey moms, Joe Sixpacks, main-streeters, “you betchas” and “darn rights.” Somewhere in heaven Norman Rockwell is smiling.


http://tinyurl.com/3jnfwt


quote:

I'm sure I'm not the only male in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, "Hey, I think she just winked at me." And her smile. By the end, when she clearly knew she was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can't be learned; it's either something you have or you don't, and man, she's got it.


http://tinyurl.com/4haf92


quote:

The whole debate was about Sarah Palin. She is not a person of thought but of action. Interviews are about thinking, about reflecting, marshaling data and integrating it into an answer. Debates are more active, more propelled—they are thrust and parry. They are for campaigners. She is a campaigner. Her syntax did not hold, but her magnetism did. At one point she literally winked at the nation.

. . . . This was classic "talk over the heads of the media straight to the people," and it is a long time since I've seen it done so well, though so transparently. There were moments when she seemed to be doing an infomercial pitch for charm in politics. But it was an effective infomercial.

. . . .

Sarah Palin saved John McCain again Thursday night. She is the political equivalent of cardiac paddles: Clear! Zap! We've got a beat! She will re-electrify the base. More than that, an hour and a half of talking to America will take her to a new level of stardom.



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122300786229301597.html

[ 03 October 2008: Message edited by: josh ]


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 03 October 2008 12:04 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
They have to. It's all they have right now. McCain has been slowly tanking to the point that several red states thought safe are now in play including to big ones, Florida and Ohio. Heck even NC and Virginia are tied and teetering.
He just pulled out of Michigan yesterday to redirect resources to other states. Though Palin was just on Fox criticizing that move.

quote:
Sarah Palin criticized John McCain's decision to pull campaign resources out of Michigan in an interview with FOX News on Friday, saying she and her husband Todd would "be happy" to campaign in the economically distraught battleground state.

The Republican vice presidential nominee, on the heels of her debate with Joe Biden, also took a second stab at questions that seemed to trip her up during recent interviews, declaring that she looks "forward to speaking to the media more and more every day."

Palin said the decision to pull out of Michigan, which was announced Thursday, was "not a surprise" to her since polls show McCain slipping in the state.

But Palin said that when she read the news, she "fired off a quick e-mail and said, 'Oh come on, do we have to?'"


Fox

This to me could mean a couple of things. She's just speaking her mind and isn't in tune with the actual strategy and she shouldn't have said that or it's just BS and the setup interview for them going back in, on Palin's call because she's showing such great leadership blah blah and is the spunky 'maverick' fighter that won't give up for the sake of America.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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Babbler # 9355

posted 04 October 2008 08:18 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Obama Gaining Crucial Ground
quote:
With 31 days until the election, Democrat Barack Obama's road to the White House is widening, and Republican John McCain's electoral path is narrowing.

The McCain campaign's decision this week to abandon Democratic-leaning Michigan is the most obvious and dramatic sign, a major tactical retreat that limits the ways he can reach the magic number of 270 electoral votes on Nov. 4.

But McCain is in as bad or worse shape in other battleground states. Barring a dramatic change, he is on course to lose Iowa and New Mexico, both states barely won by President Bush four years ago in his narrow victory over Democrat John F. Kerry. And he and the Republican National Committee this week began pouring money into Indiana and North Carolina, reliably Republican states where the Obama campaign has made strong advances and polls indicate the candidates are roughly tied.


McCain Campaign Plans Fiercer Strategy

quote:
Sen. John McCain and his Republican allies are readying a newly aggressive assault on Sen. Barack Obama's character, believing that to win in November they must shift the conversation back to questions about the Democrat's judgment, honesty and personal associations, several top Republicans said.

With just a month to go until Election Day, McCain's team has decided that its emphasis on the senator's biography as a war hero, experienced lawmaker and straight-talking maverick is insufficient to close a growing gap with Obama. The Arizonan's campaign is also eager to move the conversation away from the economy, an issue that strongly favors Obama and has helped him to a lead in many recent polls.

"We're going to get a little tougher," a senior Republican operative said, indicating that a fresh batch of television ads is coming. "We've got to question this guy's associations. Very soon. There's no question that we have to change the subject here," said the operative, who was not authorized to discuss strategy and spoke on the condition of anonymity.


Translation: Mean, ugly, dirty, slime, slime, slime and in case anyone hasn't noticed yet...He's black!

Composite Poll Site and Map

Another composite poll site


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Blairza
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Babbler # 15227

posted 04 October 2008 09:49 AM      Profile for Blairza     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That CNN poll that had a majority for Biden to win also had a majority for her on likability. I am praying that Americans who feel burnt by their comfort with Bush will make the connection.

I also fond it weird that people refer to her as sexy. She's fit, straight featured and covered in make-up. Pretty, maybe but she snarls and sneers more than she smiles.

She reminds me so much of W.
I can't recall the author, but there was an article several years that pointed out that almost all of W.'s worst malapropisms came when he had to express feelings of compassion for others or his concern for social issues("is our children learning", "put food on your family"). When speaking about war or expressing his personal disdain he was always quite sure of himself and his syntax. Is it just me or did anyone else notice that Palin's most coherent paragraphs are only on the attack. When asked to describe McCain's actual plan or policy positions she rambles run-on
sentnces full of non-sequiters and slogans.


If elected HE will die.
And SHE is unqualified,
So Her Vice-President will be President, like Cheney. She should be asked who her VP will be if she is forced to finish McCain's term.


From: Sonoma, California | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged
Michael Hardner
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posted 04 October 2008 10:00 AM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Source of Palin's Ronald Regan Quote

I thought this might be interesting to the Palin watchers here.

She got one of her quotes from this record:


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 04 October 2008 10:35 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here is a link to the original story on text of Reagan's words that Palin used.

http://www.larrydewitt.net/Essays/Reagan.htm


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Polly Brandybuck
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posted 04 October 2008 05:15 PM      Profile for Polly Brandybuck     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Palin reminds me of those mindless cookie cutter women portrayed in the detergent and toilet paper commercials.
From: To Infinity...and beyond! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 04 October 2008 07:04 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Millions of Americans envy the Palins and aspire to their Alaskan lives as their own personal dream of security. Their piece of the corporate rock, peddled by Wall Street, sank like a stone. NYT writer, Timothy Egan, usually the smartest Alaska analyst, asked readers whether American voters could relate to an Alaska where, “Every home seems to have a freezer in the garage stuffed with moose meat and 10 pounds of alder-smoked chinook? Owning a small amount of marijuana is protected by the privacy clause of the Alaska constitution, the courts have ruled.” Are you kidding, Timothy? The answer is HELL, YES! A place where you make great money on the North Slope, do some commercial fishing or gold mining like Todd Palin and have time to compete and win Iron Man cross country snow machine races? All of this and three thousand plus dollars each from Alaska, your yearly share in the oil wealth? How many folks would like to live like the Palins on Lake Lucille in the half million dollar house that Todd designed and built?

Sarah Palin is selling the Alaskan dream as a remaining fragment of the American dream, not her foreign policy or economic claptrap drawn from Republican handlers. If her husband spends time helping her at work, or if she confuses her personal internet with the one the state provided, well, she is still Citizen Palin not Professional Politician Palin, like Senators Obama, Biden or McCain with their legions of reliable staffers. Her supporters understand and want to forgive her because she has the life they want. Level-headed Obama supporters need to develop a quick antidote to their own Valley Trash strategy. It’s not going to be Joe Biden, declared champion of the credit card industry and asset forfeiture for drug offenders. If people can’t relate to a United States Senator and his world, dumping on Sarah won’t rein them in. If James Carville thinks he can herd this crowd, the way he cowed progressives into voting for corporate candidates, instead of Ralph Nader, he has – once again - blown it for the Democrats.


Steve Conn lived in Alaska from 1972 until 2007. He is a retired professor, University of Alaska.

[ 04 October 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 05 October 2008 06:54 AM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Saturday Night Live got her number pretty good

I love the bit about climate change being a natural part of the end of days.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
aka Mycroft
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posted 05 October 2008 03:36 PM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Doug:
Saturday Night Live got her number pretty good

I love the bit about climate change being a natural part of the end of days.


I liked the line about marriage being reserved for "unwilling teenagers". Ouch!


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 06 October 2008 03:28 AM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This made me laugh until I couldn't breathe!


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
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posted 06 October 2008 05:57 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Make Believe Maverick-Rolling Stone

quote:
This is the story of the real John McCain, the one who has been hiding in plain sight. It is the story of a man who has consistently put his own advancement above all else, a man willing to say and do anything to achieve his ultimate ambition: to become commander in chief, ascending to the one position that would finally enable him to outrank his four-star father and grandfather.

In its broad strokes, McCain's life story is oddly similar to that of the current occupant of the White House. John Sidney McCain III and George Walker Bush both represent the third generation of American dynasties. Both were born into positions of privilege against which they rebelled into mediocrity. Both developed an uncanny social intelligence that allowed them to skate by with a minimum of mental exertion. Both struggled with booze and loutish behavior. At each step, with the aid of their fathers' powerful friends, both failed upward. And both shed their skins as Episcopalian members of the Washington elite to build political careers as self-styled, ranch-inhabiting Westerners who pray to Jesus in their wives' evangelical churches.

In one vital respect, however, the comparison is deeply unfair to the current president: George W. Bush was a much better pilot.


This, of course, is not the story McCain tells about himself. Few politicians have so actively, or successfully, crafted their own myth of greatness. In Mc- Cain's version of his life, he is a prodigal son who, steeled by his brutal internment in Vietnam, learned to put "country first." Remade by the Keating Five scandal that nearly wrecked his career, the story goes, McCain re-emerged as a "reformer" and a "maverick," righteously eschewing anything that "might even tangentially be construed as a less than proper use of my office."

It's a myth McCain has cultivated throughout his decades in Washington. But during the course of this year's campaign, the mask has slipped. "Let's face it," says Larry Wilkerson, a retired Army colonel who served as chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell. "John McCain made his reputation on the fact that he doesn't bend his principles for politics. That's just not true."



From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 10 October 2008 05:18 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Surprise! Palin clears herself in Troopergate.

quote:

Trying to head off a potentially embarrassing state ethics report on GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin, campaign officials released their own report Thursday that clears her of any wrongdoing.



http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/WireStory?id=5990499&page=1

But,

quote:

Ms. Palin has denied that anyone told Mr. Monegan to dismiss Trooper Wooten, or that the commissioner’s ouster had anything to do with him. But an examination of the case, based on interviews with Mr. Monegan and several top aides, indicates that, to a far greater degree than was previously known, the governor, her husband and her administration pressed the commissioner and his staff to get Trooper Wooten off the force, though without directly ordering it.

In all, the commissioner and his aides were contacted about Trooper Wooten three dozen times over 19 months by the governor, her husband and seven administration officials, interviews and documents show.

“To all of us, it was a campaign to get rid of him as a trooper and, at the very least, to smear the guy and give him a desk job somewhere,” said Kim Peterson, Mr. Monegan’s special assistant, who like several other aides spoke publicly about the matter for the first time.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/us/10trooper.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355

posted 10 October 2008 06:11 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The 'blogger' that is blamed for the entire thing responds...
The Blogger on the Grassy Knoll

quote:
After months of hiding from the truth, I'll finally admit it; I was the blogger on the grassy knoll.

I am to blame for the entire Troopergate scandal and the ensuing investigation into if Governor Sarah Palin abused the power of her office by firing former Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan because he wouldn't fire her ex brother in law, State Trooper Mike Wooten.

Me, me, me. The blog stops with me.

I am responsible for Governor Palin's husband Todd's weird obsession with his former brother in law State Trooper Mike Wooten, where he admitted in a deposition this week that he has spent years trying to get Wooten fired.

I am responsible for the "over two dozen phone calls" Governor Palin admitted her staff made to the Department of Public Safety to inquire about the status of her former brother in law.

I am responsible for the recorded phone call where Palin's right hand man Frank Bailey is pressuring another State Trooper that Wooten needs to be fired, even though he hadn't been able to convince anyone else in authority.

"Mike Tibbles (Palin's former Chief of Staff) disagrees with me, Audie Holloway(a State Trooper Lt. Col.) probably disagrees with me and Walt does (Commissioner Walt Monegan)" Bailey said in the recorded phone call released by Governor Palin on August 13.

I totally put him up to it even though he said he got the confidential information he shared in the call from Todd Palin.

Also in that same phone call Bailey said, "She (Palin) really likes Walt a lot, but on this issue she feels like it’s, she doesn’t know why there’s absolutely no action for a year … it’s very troubling to her and the family. I can definitely relay that.”

So according to Bailey, the governor "really" liked Monegan's performance, but just not his performance in responding to her wishes to see Wooten out of a job. This was on February 29, 2008...and then four months later Monegan is fired?

I admit, this is all my handy work.



From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 13 October 2008 08:57 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This might be what it takes to pull voters to the Republicans' side:

NAILIN PAYLIN: HUSTLER’S TAKE ON RUSSIA ENTERING THROUGH SARAH’S BACK DOOR

quote:
This is gross, but also pretty savvy of Larry Flynt. He is shooting a porn called “Nailin’ Paylin,” which will involve a look alike “nailing the Russians who come knocking on her back-door.”

In a flashback scene, “young Paylin’s creationist college professor will explain a ‘big bang’ theory even she can’t deny!” reports TMZ.

To top it off, there will be a threeway with Hillary and Condoleezza look-alikes.

Radar got its hands on a portion of the script which involves Joe Sixpack and a tanning bed.



From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 25 October 2008 06:27 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's not very often that I agree with Margaret Wente...

But she really nails the sexism of Conservative supporters of Palin, and she's right that Palin will be their downfall.

quote:
Can you imagine any man being vetted in such a way? Can you imagine any serious person gushing over any male candidate in those terms? I thought not.

But now, cosmic justice has been done. The Palin bounce has turned into a lead balloon. This comes as a relief to those of us who were accused of mad, cattish jealousy for being horrified. Fifty-five per cent of voters now think Ms. Palin isn't qualified to be president. Her lack of qualifications is their top concern about Mr. McCain's candidacy - ahead of the economy, Iraq and everything else. Her negatives are strongest among women under 50 - the very people she was supposed to attract. Newspapers that have endorsed Republicans for 40 years are stampeding to endorse Barack Obama. Their main reason? Sarah Palin.


[ 25 October 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]

[ 25 October 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 25 October 2008 07:28 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Palin resisted the suggestion that if Ayers was a "domestic terrorist" -- a standard line in her campaign addresses -- then so were conservative religious activists who bombed abortion clinics.

"I don't know if you're going to use the word 'terrorist' there," she said.



http://www.alternet.org/election08/104590/palin%3A_%27i_don%27t_know%27_if_abortion_clinic_bombers_are_terrorists/

From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 25 October 2008 07:38 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"(Palin's) lack of qualifications is their top concern about Mr. McCain's candidacy - ahead of the economy, Iraq and everything else.(...)"

I find this very scary.

Convenient as it may be for some, the current "Nailin' Palin" sexist hatefest (it's Palin this time, tomorrow it will be another woman) is bad news for women of any political stripe. (Not to mention leftist men, who seem a lost cause on gender issues.)

But it is also obscuring real issues of racism in this election if McCain's main weakness is deemed to be having chosen Palin, if we are so busy gnawing at an "easy" bone thrown to us that our sexism keeps us too busy to address their racism.

Here is a nifty summary that was relayed to the Parleuses distribution list:

*Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin What if things were switched around?..... Think about it. Would the country's collective point of view be different? Could racism be the culprit? Ponder the following: What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter? What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review? What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class? What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee? What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe disfiguring car accident, when she no longer measured up to his standards? What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married? What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only beca/me addicted to pain killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization? What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard? What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five? (The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.) What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker? What if Obama couldn't read from a teleprompter? What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes? What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many occasions, a serious anger management problem? What if Michelle Obama's family had made their money from beer distribution? What if the Obamas had adopted a white child. You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are? This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference.

Educational Background:
Barack Obama:
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations. Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude
Joseph Biden: University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science. Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)
vs. John McCain: United States Naval Academy -
Class rank: 894 of 899
Sarah Palin: Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism

[ 25 October 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]

[ 25 October 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 25 October 2008 07:58 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is a pretty depressing scenario from The Atlantic.

Sad thing is, it's all too plausable.

quote:
Palin In 2012: The Argument
23 Oct 2008 09:37 am

There's a suspicion in some McCain loyalist precincts that Gov. Sarah Palin is beginning to play the Republican base against John McCain -- McCain won't let her campaign in Michigan...McCain won't let her bring up Jeremiah Wright... McCain doesn't like her terrorist pal talks....

Think ahead to 2010...2011...2012.

Palin is ambitious. Very ambitious.

And if she wants the job, she's easily the frontrunner to become THE voice of the angry Right in the Wilderness. She is a favorite of talk radio and Fox News conservatives, and speaks their language as only a true member of the club can. (Her recent Limbaugh interview was full of dog whistles that any Dittohead would recognize. Including her actual use of the word ditto.)


quote:
Palin will have plenty of time to become fluent on national issues. She will easily benefit from the low expectations threshhold, and will probably even garner positive reviews from the MSM types who disparage her today.

Palin will be judged to be "ready" in four years. George Will and David Brooks and Peggy Noonan will all swoon over her once more. Ok, maybe not George Will.

Palin is an enormously talented politician. When she knows what she's talking about, or even when she knows enough to fake it, she is very, very appealing, and very good at redirecting questions to whatever her message is.


She'll have time to actually learn what all those big words she's been hearing really mean, and read W's well thumbed copy of "The Presidency For Idiots". She'll be the darling of the right wing talk show circiut.

The Rebublican ultra right never totally bought into McCain, but they play the long game, and see someone perfectly malleablle to meet their ends for 2012. *shudder*


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 25 October 2008 09:54 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Nice double bind there. Either Palin is a "nincompoop" or she is a Machiavellian back-stabber. Take you pick, folks, we've got plenty of mutually exclusive "critiques".
From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 25 October 2008 09:56 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't believe in binaries. She can be both.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
abnormal
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posted 25 October 2008 09:57 AM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
oldgoat, the attitude you alude to is understandable. For those who believe that an Obama win is inevitable and that the Dems will screw up badly it's to their benefit to have the Dems win a majority in the House and Senate as well as the Presidency. That way there will be no claiming "We would have done wonderful things if the Republicans let us" and it will be easy to say "We told you so" and it will be Palin against whoever. And she may well win.
From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 25 October 2008 10:18 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Michelle: "I don't believe in binaries. She can be both."
Even a "nincompoop" (Boom Boom) AND an "enormously talented politician" (The Atlantic)? Come ON!

From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 25 October 2008 10:38 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
She can be both, I concur with Michelle, just as Reagan was fluff and stuff, he was a talented politician. He knew how to portray an image that was bought by the consuming public and he played to his B movie fan base, to get the top spot.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 25 October 2008 10:59 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
Michelle: "I don't believe in binaries. She can be both."
Even a "nincompoop" (Boom Boom) AND an "enormously talented politician" (The Atlantic)? Come ON!


The lack "Palin sexism watch" thread is notable by its absence. I remember I was taken to task for defending Condoleeza Rice from one of Olbermann's outrageously patronizing (and factually wrong) attack upon her intellectual credentials, which are by all standards of the same caliber, at least on paper, as Barack Obama, apparently simply because she was on the wrong side.

Olbermann's falsehoods could stand, I guess, as long as they served the right cause.

The thing about these "little woman" tropes that dismiss women by degrading their intelligence, is that they are pretty intangible, and the sexism lurks in the pervasiness of the discourse in relationship to women, not the specific criticism, which may in and of itself seem fine, on the surface.

Palin's detractors seem to be wavering between the "idiot housewife" attack and the "coniving manupulator" trope in the main.

[ 25 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 25 October 2008 11:17 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
She can be both, I concur with Michelle, just as Reagan was fluff and stuff, he was a talented politician. He knew how to portray an image that was bought by the consuming public and he played to his B movie fan base, to get the top spot.

I concur as well though I think it depends on the actual definition of 'nincompoop.' If it's just a comment equal to generally 'stupid' or 'dumb' overall then I would agree with Martin that you can't really have both.

If it's more related to a comment on general knowledge, like facts and policy or education as in 'book learning' then yeah one can be both. Knowing how to manipulate or use people, to get ahead and use what you might be strong in, like charm and charisma are separate skills. It's like the difference between IQ and EQ as measurements of 'intelligence.'


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 25 October 2008 11:35 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ElizaQ, I have taken it to mean a fool. And one can be a fool, and still be very intelligent. It is more of a statement about her being deficient in rational judgement and common sense.

Having said that, she did not even know what the job of VP was.

And your point about EQ and IQ is salient, IMV.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 25 October 2008 02:41 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 25 October 2008 03:01 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
To extend Cueball's argument, it seems obvious to me that Palin is having thrown at her everything nasty you can say about and do to a woman as woman: a "savvy" Larry Flynt piece of sexual defamation, the above depiction of beauty contestants as inane, another Doug gem of cat sounds filling in for her voice, a full thesaurus of assimilations of women to irrational idiots, predictable stuff about her "shopping", flirting, winking, etc.
There are better reasons for criticizing Palin and MUCH better reasons for rejecting McCain, Bush and the Republican agenda, but if misogyny temporarily serves an allegedly lofty purpose, most of you folks seem to have no problem with that, regardless of the obvious consequences for any future woman candidates.
I am convinced that this pattern is deeper-ingrained and that the Left has a long history of hitting women in politics with everything it's got, from the days Proudhon and other luminaries were arguing against allowing women the vote because they felt women had traditionally and would always support the Right. To this day, RW women seem to get ten times the hatred RW men get, for a host of different reasons I don't have time to get into. Let's just call it the "Marie Antoinette syndrome"...
P.S.: And I am not getting into the blatant, heinous classism from Palin's critics. Ms. Mallick skewered herself badly enough on that count.

[ 25 October 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 25 October 2008 03:18 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ya, well, Martin I leave it to you and cue, to rescue, ALL women from themselves because we are so deeply ingrained to attack our own gender and to rescue Palin from those other misogyny filled men on the left, so the rest of us women can safely go into poltics.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 25 October 2008 03:55 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Not much point I agree. Mallick's elitest "white Trash" classist statements, and dubious use of the term "pram faced", not to mention her god awfully snooty lectures about the aesthetics of suburban working class neighborhoods gets a pass if she is serving the right cause, while Klein's urban elitism and so-so support for your party warrant vilification at the extreme.

Ignoring the underlying sexism of many of the attacks against Palin used by the so called "democratic left" because those attacks serve the "greater good" is completely expected.

Again, where is the Palin Sexism Watch thread here at Babble? The hypocrisy is clear to anyone who doesn't dye their underwear Orange.

[ 25 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 25 October 2008 04:03 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ya, well, cue, get back to me when Mallick owns her own magazine, starts a national movement to deprive voters of their vote, or in fact even starts telling people how to vote, and I may take something you say seriously. But granted perhaps not even then.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 25 October 2008 04:05 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Lol, I thought the issue was who was published here at Rabble, and strategic voting was irrelevant. It was her elitism that bothered you was it not? Want me to find you the quote?

quote:
Cue, again I do not care about what you believe Now does for progressives in Toronto. I care about what she says and does nationally that has impacts on the ROC during an election and her being given a presence on rabble to voice it. And I care about her elitist regressive and divisive comments about western Canada in that voice she had at rabble.

But, yes I know, that is what half of political PR is all about, consistency is irrelevant, as long as their is some kind of couter-arguement.

[ 25 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 25 October 2008 04:09 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Lol, I thought the issue was who was published here at Rabble

I thought the issue here was Sarah Palin and the discussion you're trying to have was in some other thread.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 25 October 2008 04:11 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Honestly, I also feel that there has been a lot of sexism directed at Palin during this campaign. But I'm not sure that we're seeing an example of it here. I mean, I suppose ANY criticism of her incompetence could be spun as being sexist because we're assuming she can't do the job - but are we assuming that she can't do the job because she's a woman, or because she's simply not knowledgeable enough, combined with her corruption which is only equalled by her spite?

That beauty queen picture with the slogan about the only beauty queen who doesn't want world peace? A case could be made for that being sexist, but on the other hand, her own campaign is really pushing the "hot chick" angle and they're mobilizing her base with it. So does that make the satire within bounds? I don't know, maybe.

As for Wente, what she's doing is talking about Republican men and their sexist reaction to her, and then decrying it. And she's also saying that when you promote an unqualified woman and play up her sex appeal, and a bunch of guys in the party and in punditry fall for it, there are going to be some red faces when they realize that they lost a lot of support because of it.

Does that mean she's stupid? No, not at all. I think she's pretty darn smart. But I also think she's pretty mean, pretty calculating, and out of her league. She can get away with petty and corrupt shit when she's the big fish in her tiny pond, but on the national stage, with intense media scrutiny, she can't get by that way.

I think the most sexism during this campaign can be found within the Republicans, not the Democrats. Sure, there is sexism within the Democrats. And I still think the Republicans put Palin up as a trap, hoping the Democrats would fall into it and start showing some of their below-the-surface misogynist colours. And the occasional Democrat has fallen for it and done it.

But much, much more sexist has been the Republican base, with their objectifying and sexist slogans about Palin. And it's going to be really something else - something awful - to watch them turn on her when McCain loses the election because of his terrible VP pick.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 25 October 2008 04:12 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
remind is right. I have ZERO pity for Palin, nor do I rise to her defense when she is busy trying to be the "good Xian anti-woman" freak that she is. All people can be many things at once - smart, funny, silly, goofy, you get the point. The fact that as a woman, I'm expected to stand up for this horrid beast is not reflective of me, but of the men who assume I must do so simply because we have the same genitalia. Please!
From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 25 October 2008 04:14 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's not a matter of standing up for her. Its a matter of being consistent, and discouraging such behaviour from "the left", regardless of who the target is.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 25 October 2008 04:17 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't think anyone expects progressive women (or men) to "stand up for" Palin. I think it is necessary, however, to refrain from attacking her in sexist ways, and to call other people on it when they do it.

Sexist degradation hurts us all, no matter who it's aimed at.

Cueball, I'm pretty sure there have been discussions on babble about sexist attacks against Palin.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 25 October 2008 04:19 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The right just feeds off the apparent hypocrisy. Palin is getting all kinds of sympathy points because of these mendacious and silly attacks.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 25 October 2008 04:26 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, I know. I've made that argument a number of times in other threads.

Anyhow, this is getting long...please feel free to start a part two. Or! You could start a sexism watch thread if you'd like.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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