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Author Topic: 20 Duma members sign anti-Semitic letter
aRoused
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1962

posted 17 February 2005 07:15 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Guardian

quote:
A group of nationalist Russian lawmakers called Monday for a sweeping investigation aimed at outlawing all Jewish organizations and punishing officials who support them, accusing Jews of fomenting ethnic hatred and saying they provoke anti-Semitism.
(snip)
Echoing anti-Semitic tracts of the Czarist era, the letter's authors accuse Jews of working against the interests of the countries where they live and of monopolizing power worldwide. They say the United States ``has become an instrument for achieving the global aims of Judaism.''

To quote myself: Holy. Crispy. Crap.

Radio 4's morning news noted that the letter also apparently accuses Jews of being Satanists, and that one of these whackjobs who aired his 'views' received 60% support from a viewer poll of 100,000 people.

Learn this, if you learn nothing else: you may hector me, or other people on Babble, for their dislike of Israeli policy, but this, THIS, is the real problem and where all efforts must be directed to quash this madness.

[ 17 February 2005: Message edited by: aRoused ]


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 17 February 2005 07:54 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Agreed, aRoused. That is damned scary.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
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Babbler # 1962

posted 17 February 2005 08:37 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I admit that my initial reaction on hearing that as I was lying in bed this mornig was 'If you're Jewish, get the fuck out of Russia NOW!'. Knee-jerk reaction of course, but...cripes. It's one of those situations where you don't even know where to *start* fighting. It's like a hydra: what head do you cut off first?

Case in point: The Duma members are being taken to court for their remarks, to try and get them kicked out of government (incidentally the letter was also signed by a bunch of so-called 'academics and intellectuals'). Does anyone think that winning this court case won't just cause two heads to grow in the place of the one that's cut off? I mean, will winning this court case convince the 60,000 people supporting this kind of insanity that 'oh, well, in that case, I guess they and we were wrong and we'll have to change our ways'? Nope.


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 17 February 2005 08:52 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow. That is freakin' scary. Something is rotten in the State of Russia.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 17 February 2005 08:58 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by aRoused:
Does anyone think that winning this court case won't just cause two heads to grow in the place of the one that's cut off? I mean, will winning this court case convince the 60,000 people supporting this kind of insanity that 'oh, well, in that case, I guess they and we were wrong and we'll have to change our ways'? Nope.

You're right. If anything the reaction will be much like that of the neo-nazis here - winning the court case against these racists will simply be "proof" in the minds of anti-semites that they were right.

BTW, that's not to say that I think they shouldn't pursue the court case. I'm just reiterating how scary it is that this kind of attitude has such significant minority support.

[ 17 February 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 17 February 2005 08:58 AM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Aroused I agree with you. This is more than just plain scary. It rehashes the centuries old antisemetic steriotypes.

I found this part from what you quoted extremely unnerving:

quote:
A group of nationalist Russian lawmakers called Monday for a sweeping investigation aimed at outlawing all Jewish organizations and punishing officials who support them, accusing Jews of fomenting ethnic hatred and saying they provoke anti-Semitism.

I can only hope that the cloak of darkness will be thrown off and better minds will prevail.


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 17 February 2005 09:21 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That is the old hard-core, indeed.

I note that the director of the Holocaust Foundation says:

quote:
``The economic situation is ripe for this. An enemy is needed, and the enemy is well-known, traditional.''

Although I've known that the Russian economy has gone through chaotic times until recently, I'm ashamed to say that I have very little sense of social attitudes and mood there at the moment. Even Putin has seemed to me willing to play manipulative games with public mood (by linking his war in Chechnya with Bush's "War on Terror," eg), which suggests to me that he thinks his own people are generally resentful enough to fall for propaganda and lies, but I don't know.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
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posted 17 February 2005 09:35 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hm. I get the impression that this is actually causing Putin some problems (the signatories are from the communist and national democratic parties or something like that), particularly since the story came out about the same time he was expressing sorrow and shame at the Auschwitz ceremonies a few weeks ago. I don't think any of the signatories are members of the Putin's faction, but I could be very wrong as I know little about how the Duma operates.
From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 17 February 2005 09:40 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, no, I wasn't suggesting that Putin would be at all in sympathy with these guys.

I was just trying to read social attitudes in Russia through Putin's behaviour, which has become troubling in other ways.

[ 17 February 2005: Message edited by: skdadl ]


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 17 February 2005 11:08 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The situation in Russia, all over the world where racism raises its ugly head, the lead proponents are always promoting the cause of ethnic nationalism.

quote:
``The economic situation is ripe for this. An enemy is needed, and the enemy is well-known, traditional.''

This is always the case from the micro (cults) to the macro (nations).

I agree this must be quashed and quickly. The far right is gaining strength throughout Europe and it is only a matter of time before it reaches here.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 17 February 2005 11:38 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You know, it sounds weird but the first thought I had was Tolkien-based. It's as though someone has the Ring somewhere.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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posted 17 February 2005 01:18 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And this, boys and girls, is why every Russian with an IQ higher than a twig supports Yabloko.
From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 17 February 2005 06:16 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
First off: I hope that the Communists in Russia, in particular, don't start seizing on this. The "far right" in Russia is a strange hybrid of neo-Stalinism and authoritarianism in the style of the czars.

Second off: The USA does have itself to blame for this, by damaging the Russian economy even more than the Soviets ever did, in their eagerness to impose capitalism on their vanquished enemy.

They had to know that bad economic times make people vulnerable to demagoguery and attempts to implant racist ideas in the general populace.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 17 February 2005 07:34 PM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Regarding the Americans imposing capitalism on the Soviets in a quick fashion, high ranking members within the former ruiling Communist Party exacerbated the situation. When the (Soviet) state decided to sell former national assets at rock bottom prices they created a group of super rich that offered poor quality products to the population at relativley high prices. Furthermore the quality of the services they control are dubious at best, and the investment climate due to the huge levels of corruption (goverment and non-goverment ie: mafia) strongly discourage foreign investment -- obviously weakening the economy. So I would put way more blame on the Russians themselves than I would the Americans.

But regarding the story itself I find it strange that some Communists or Liberal Democrats would support this. I understand that a nationalist party would, but those two make this even stranger -- and quite sad.


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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Babbler # 5089

posted 17 February 2005 08:06 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Vansterdam Kid:
Regarding the Americans imposing capitalism on the Soviets in a quick fashion, high ranking members within the former ruiling Communist Party exacerbated the situation. When the (Soviet) state decided to sell former national assets at rock bottom prices they created a group of super rich that offered poor quality products to the population at relativley high prices. Furthermore the quality of the services they control are dubious at best, and the investment climate due to the huge levels of corruption (goverment and non-goverment ie: mafia) strongly discourage foreign investment -- obviously weakening the economy. So I would put way more blame on the Russians themselves than I would the Americans.

But regarding the story itself I find it strange that some Communists or Liberal Democrats would support this. I understand that a nationalist party would, but those two make this even stranger -- and quite sad.


It's stranger than you think: The Neo-Nazi party is the Liberal Democrats.

The Communist anti-semitism make perfect sense when one goes back to the intra-party conflict between Stalin and Trotsky: Most Jewish leftists in Russia (and many outside of Russia, including some who would, oddly (Not really...neo-conservatism was initially more or less an extension of right-shachtmanism, a pro-US school of Trotskyism to which many American Jews subscribed to out of anger with the authoritarian and anti-semitic tendencies of the Soviet Stalinists) go on to become neo-cons) were behind Trotsky and the Stalinist side of the party was extremely anti-semitic.

Gorbachev and his reformist wing left the party to create some social-democratic party that never became very relevant to Russian politics, leaving the Communist a rotting a carcass of Stalinist bigotry.

Rodina sort of surprised me though: In spite of being tied to the Russian Orthodox Church and being quite nationalist, they are a left-leaning party, and I had no idea they were this authoritarian and this backwards in their views. Some, however, believe that Rodina is a fake party created by crypto-Putinistas to take votes away from Yabloko, the Communists, and the Agrarians.

[ 17 February 2005: Message edited by: NDP Newbie ]


From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged

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