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» babble   » walking the talk   » labour and consumption   » Sobey's Strike in Regina

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Author Topic: Sobey's Strike in Regina
Kaitlin Stocks
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posted 05 October 2005 06:30 PM      Profile for Kaitlin Stocks   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Now, I'm not sure if this is being discussed elsewhere... But I was just wondering what everyone thinks of a month long strike at Sobey's South in Regina. I think its a big silly to be completely honest... I understand the need for higher wages etc... But I'm just not understanding why these people are still on strike.. Especially why their Union (RWSDU or something...) keeps putting off talks with the store.

Help!!


From: The City That Rhymes With Fun... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
scooter
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posted 05 October 2005 07:13 PM      Profile for scooter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sobey's over priced. I can push my groceries myself and save $20-$30 per week while I shop at the Real Superstore with the occasional trip to the CO-OP.
From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Wizard of Socialism
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posted 05 October 2005 07:33 PM      Profile for The Wizard of Socialism   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I shop at Sobey's Rochdale myself. No need to bother with all that union unpleasantness. And they make these tremendous, yet affordable wraps.

[ 05 October 2005: Message edited by: The Wizard Of Socialism ]


From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gold_n_blonde
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posted 06 October 2005 12:12 AM      Profile for Gold_n_blonde     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

[ 31 December 2005: Message edited by: Gold_n_blonde ]


From: Saskatchewan - hard to spell; easy to draw | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
rinne
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posted 06 October 2005 05:12 AM      Profile for rinne     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is regarding Saskatoon, but perhaps it relates:See Here
From: prairies | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 06 October 2005 09:16 AM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Gold_n_blonde:
...Perhaps the workers should be supported in their fight for higher wages...

Especially since this is supposed to be a pro-labour forum...


From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
scooter
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posted 06 October 2005 12:04 PM      Profile for scooter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Gold_n_blonde:
Perhaps the workers should be supported in their fight for higher wages, and the big corporate businesses...

Instead of jumping to sterotypical conclusions perhaps we should discuss the workers situation and the companies ability to survive against their competition?

Sobey's is a high end and high priced grocery store out here. I suspect few people on this web site can afford to shop at Sobey's.


From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Kaitlin Stocks
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posted 06 October 2005 12:24 PM      Profile for Kaitlin Stocks   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sobey's has good prices on some stuff.. Frozen dinners for example, great choice for lunch for lazy Kaitlin. They don't have the best selection though.

Now, I think most people should know that I am super pro union, but as I said in my original post, I don't agree with this union putting off talks with the store. I want to see these workers back on the job. Most of them are University students who are completely broke right now. The store also isn't losing anything on this strike, b'coz they have a whole bunch of union members who went back to work, not to mention countless scabs. One of my best friends works there and she is completely frustrated by this whole ordeal. She just wants to put in her hours and get her check. I honestly don't think this union is being fair to its members.


From: The City That Rhymes With Fun... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 06 October 2005 12:24 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I actually was shopping at that grocery store last year, whe it was an IGA. If you shop with a small kid in tow, it's actually easier to go to a smaller store with carry-out service, and I didn't find I spent nearly as much time or money on the other things Superstore carries and IGA doesn't. I went a couple of times after it became Sobey's but found that the Safeway in my neighborhood had a better selection and better produce.

Anyway, I don't know specifics, but the staff seemed to start having problems when Sobey's took over the store. Many of the staff I see picketing are the same people who were working there when I shopped there. I find it hard to imagine they're doing it for no good reason.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kaitlin Stocks
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posted 06 October 2005 12:32 PM      Profile for Kaitlin Stocks   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The store is run, owned and operated by the same people as it was when it was IGA... the franchise name just got switched over. (fyi as well it is the only unionized Sobey's in Regina.)

The only remaining IGA in Regina is the Lakeshore one on Hillsdale. It is completely separate from the others... Not exactly sure why, but their prices are SUPER high.

Edit to add: and in addition to my last post, i don't want to see these workers FORCED back on the job, I want the talks to get underway, get something great wored out, THEN go back to work.

[ 06 October 2005: Message edited by: Kaitlin Stocks ]


From: The City That Rhymes With Fun... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 06 October 2005 12:46 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Where did you get your information that the union is the one who keeps putting off talks? In my experience, usually the union is eager to go to the bargaining table and its management that drags its feet. Of course, I don't know about this particular situation. Maybe there's nothing to talk about (i.e. management is not making a reasonable offer)?
From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 06 October 2005 12:55 PM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I've been told (though I haven't verified this) that the woerkers at this Sobey's are paid significantly less than workers at the non-unionized Sobey's in Regina. You know, the usual crap - "gosh, we'd like to pay you what those guys are getting, if only you hadn't gone union..."

I'm with Robbie - I'd like to know where folks are getting the "union is dragging its feet" idea. I'm not saying that's not the case, but it would be pretty unusual.


From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
scooter
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posted 06 October 2005 01:40 PM      Profile for scooter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Sobey's workers at that store are represented by the RWDSU local 454.

The web site says little about the strike other than everyone was offended by the last company offer before the strike. The site is pretty much a waste of bandwidth when it comes to current information.

The SGEU site mentions:

quote:
RWDSU workers at Sobey's on Albert Street South in Regina began job action on September 12th. After 13 days on the picket line, both sides have agreed to use a conciliator in an attempt to reach an agreement.

From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 06 October 2005 03:18 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I did not realize that Saskatchewan RWDSU members were affiliated with the Longshore Workers union, not the UFCW. Who has more grocery workers in Saskatchewan, UFCW or RWDSU?
From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
slimpikins
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posted 09 October 2005 07:18 PM      Profile for slimpikins     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
RWDSU? Who are they?

Seriously, though, I believe that the UFCW has a lot more members than the RWDSU. If I remember my UFCW history, the UFCW came about because of a huge merger between the Retail Workers, Butcher Workmen, and Packinghouse Workers. I don't think that there are any RWDSU locals in Alberta, at least I have never run across any in my travels.


From: Alberta | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Anarchonostic
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posted 09 October 2005 08:03 PM      Profile for Anarchonostic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Erstwhile:
[...]

I'm with Robbie - I'd like to know where folks are getting the "union is dragging its feet" idea. I'm not saying that's not the case, but it would be pretty unusual.


No kidding. Give us a primary source, please. Both sides in labour disputes do this little thing called 'spin'.

Oh, and Wizard... what 'union unpleasantness' do you speak of? Or is that just an off-the-cuff, nonsensical statement based on your dislike of unions? Thanks for your contribution to the discussion

Edit: I just realized you might have been refering to crossing the picket line as being unpleasant. Fair enough. Still a useless post meant only to give a kick in the ribs...

[ 09 October 2005: Message edited by: Anarchonostic ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Wizard of Socialism
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posted 09 October 2005 08:32 PM      Profile for The Wizard of Socialism   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
When I was 21 I was beaten by two members of the RWDSU at the place I was employed. No charges were ever laid. When you've had to quit a job because you've got cracked ribs and can't stop coughing up blood, with the promise of more to come, maybe you'll be less likely judge the validity of the opinions of others...
From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Anarchonostic
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posted 09 October 2005 09:40 PM      Profile for Anarchonostic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by The Wizard Of Socialism:
When I was 21 I was beaten by two members of the RWDSU at the place I was employed. No charges were ever laid. When you've had to quit a job because you've got cracked ribs and can't stop coughing up blood, with the promise of more to come, maybe you'll be less likely judge the validity of the opinions of others...

I'm judging the validity of your opinions because (I'm going to get a tattoo) anecdotal experiences does not equal fact.


From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cartman
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posted 09 October 2005 11:44 PM      Profile for Cartman        Edit/Delete Post
Ha, I am old enough to remember when working at a grocery store was actually considered a career.
From: Bring back Audra!!!!! | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
chubbybear
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posted 10 October 2005 12:02 AM      Profile for chubbybear        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Anarchonostic:
I'm judging the validity of your opinions because (I'm going to get a tattoo) anecdotal experiences does not equal fact.
Gee, that's a little insensitive isn't it? If WS was so brutally assaulted, we can hardly blame him if he feels a little jaded, can we?

From: nowhere | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Anarchonostic
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posted 10 October 2005 01:24 AM      Profile for Anarchonostic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by chubbybear:
Gee, that's a little insensitive isn't it? If WS was so brutally assaulted, we can hardly blame him if he feels a little jaded, can we?

I'm sorry, I really shouldn't have said anything. I still don't agree with WS's justification, but I realize I have some similar opinions of my own I can deal with before casting stones. I'm just angry and sick of it, that's all. Apologies.

I did contact the RWDSU for info re: Kaitlin's info, though. We shall see?


From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
slimpikins
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posted 10 October 2005 02:18 AM      Profile for slimpikins     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I got injured at work once, blew out a disc in my back. Newly married, first child on the way, and my employer, Lakeside Packers, told me after two weeks of 'light' duty that if I didn't return to my regular job of lugging 200 lb quarters of beef they would fire me. My doctor said that I needed at least another month of rest, but he wouldn't pay my bills for me so back to work I went. Comp closed my file when Lakeside told them that I had returned to pre accident employment, thus ending Lakeside's financial obligation to the comp board. Still got fired a few months later as my job performance was substandard (who would have guessed with a bulging disc?). I will have back pain for the rest of my life because of that.

After getting fired, I went to work at a Unionized packing plant. The Union reps there helped me reactivate my comp claim and get some cash for the time that I had not been working. They also helped me get into a position at my new, union job that wouldn't aggravate my old injury. They did this even though I wasn't a member when I sustained the injury.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the same two guys who beat the crap out of WS were the guys who helped me avoid an even more debilitating injury than I already had?


From: Alberta | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
anne cameron
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posted 10 October 2005 12:09 PM      Profile for anne cameron     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My grandpa was a union organizer in the coal mines on Vancouver Island, we're all pretty strong union supporters. Recently my daughter and I were having coffee and the news was on, and of course the Teachers strike in B.C. was a main item. My daughter just shook her head and said something about anti-union sentiment, then she grinned and said "but they want their weekends, stat holidays, vacations, medical and dental extended benefits and everything the unions fought to get for them. Dweebs.". All I could do was grin.

These younger folk seem to have managed a very clear focus and perspective! I suspect the rat-squeaking which tries to pass itself off as "media" these days go on at length about demands for wage hikes because it's easier than researching to find out what the REAL discussions are about.


From: tahsis, british columbia | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Kaitlin Stocks
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posted 26 October 2005 12:47 PM      Profile for Kaitlin Stocks   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I know that the hottest topic on here right now is Tyson... But I don't feel capable of commenting or posting about that, as I do not know enough about the situation. I thought I would bump this one, though, as the strike continues and I gather more information about it.

I recently learned that Sobey's allowed unionized workers to return to work during the strike, as well as hired on a bunch of scabs. I also learned that while the "loyal" workers who crossed the picket line and returned to work are still making $7.25/hour, while the scab workers they have brought in are making $10/hour. I think this is despicable. Not only are they punishing the workers still walking the picket by not negotiating anything in over two months, they are punishing those who felt there were no alternative to cross the line, for whatever reason, by paying them $2.75 less than a scab.

Scabs are the devil.


From: The City That Rhymes With Fun... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 26 October 2005 01:46 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree with that in one sense, Kaitlin, but I also have to wonder if scabs would be so easy to find if there were fewer people living in poverty... It's the management types that take advantage of that social situation that're the real devils.
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kaitlin Stocks
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posted 26 October 2005 04:22 PM      Profile for Kaitlin Stocks   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
From what I understand, the Scabs that this company is bringing in are the friends of the rich little kids who work there, who just want to "hang out" rather than make a buck. One of them is someone I know isn't poor - His daddy is a lawyer. I'm sure he doesn't NEED the job there, he just wants to hang out with his buddies. And probably to harass women, but that's a different story. Totally off topic. Sorry.
From: The City That Rhymes With Fun... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 26 October 2005 04:30 PM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by The Wizard Of Socialism:
When I was 21 I was beaten by two members of the RWDSU at the place I was employed. No charges were ever laid. ...

Were you beaten up for a reason related to the RWDSU? Why weren't charges laid...was it lack of evidence? Was the union involved in hushing it up or something? Were these guys on the union executive or otherwise in a position of authority in the union?

Or were they just asshole psychos who happened to belong to the RWDSU?

I'm sorry to hear about your experience - truly - and I am not meaning to diminish what happened to you. I'm just wondering how that leads to a general dislike of the RWDSU or unions in general. Kind of like being mugged by a member of some ethnic group and assuming all members of that ethnic group are bastards.

Of course, it's also understandable if you just don't wanna talk about it, so whatever.


From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
lakeles
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posted 28 October 2005 04:07 PM      Profile for lakeles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I am so PO'd! I have read all the crap about this strike, and can't believe the garbage.

WHAT REALLY TICKS ME OFF, IS THE 18 PEOPLE, WHO SEEM TO BE ENJOYING THIS STRIKE, (You know, the 3 shifts of 6 holding signs causing traffic accidents, etc), HAVE BEEN targeting the employees that are still working. Obviously these are employees that are having their livelyhoods threatened. Let's face it, when you are supporting a family, your paycheck is important.

Rich Kids working. Well 'EXCUSE ME" Have you ever heard of responsibility! Get a job, earn a living?? Just because some parents are well off, doesn''t mean they don't promote good work ethics in their kids! Perhaps they are taking a lead from the owners of this store and their kids!..
Another LOAD of CRAP! According to the Trade Union Act, workers that have not participated in the strike, CAN NOT participate in the vote! Well slap me if I'm stupid... but let's see... they are employed by this store, but won't take strike action.... so they can't vote..... PERHAPS THE STRIKE VOTE WASN'T LEGAL TO BEGIN WITH!

The Union is NOT allowing them to participate in votes! Let's face it... the Union woudn't be able to continue this illegal strike, admitting they didn't have the participating votes!

I believe they didn't have the vote to strike to begin with.... IN FACT,they refused to have a vote count amidst all the voters,
Sounds way too fishy to me..

What I really can't figure out... This is a MOM & POPS Store. It is owned by 2 individuals that have put themselves into debt, ... Have mortgaged everything they owned...

They are not Millionairs.... They are not Corporate Big Wigs... They are Hard-Working & caring. They are You & Me!

This Union has abused this to the point or ridiculous! This Union has lied. This Union is taking the employee's money & doesn't give a crap!

Let's be serious... Do you really think this Union is losing sleep when the members are not getting a paycheck?
Trust me, they won't be buying their member's family Christmas presents! But maybe you should talk to Wayne & Joan... there is no questions they would make sure your kids had presents under the tree.


From: Beautiful Turtle Lake in the Saskatchewan Boreal Forest | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Nam
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posted 28 October 2005 04:24 PM      Profile for Nam     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Using capitals does not make you smart.

I can't figure out half of what you are trying to say - please edit so it is more legible, and I for one, would respond to more of your points. I will comment on one point now.

You seem to be saying that members who weren't striking are not allowed to vote in ending the strike. I don't know of any jurisdication where that is the case. All members, whether on the picket line or not, vote on accepting the contract. If you say the Trade Union Act says different, please point to the relevant section.


From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kaitlin Stocks
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posted 28 October 2005 06:47 PM      Profile for Kaitlin Stocks   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And just because some parents are well off doesn't mean that they buy their kids cars for Christmas and pay for all of their tuition. Like I said, I know one of the scabs personally, and I know a "loyal" employee who crossed the picket line. She's one of my best friends - And Rich Kid Scab - All he does at that store while he's on the clock is wander around looking for people to talk to. He doesn't do a damn thing. He has no work ethics, and I'm sure mummy and daddy didn't make him go work there.

You have contradicted yourself so many times in that one post - I don't even know what else to say. And I'll be damned if I get cheese or Jell-O from Sobey's for Christmas!!!


From: The City That Rhymes With Fun... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 31 October 2005 12:30 AM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
But Kaitlin, that's only one scab that you're referencing... It strikes me as odd to suggest that since one is a well-off kid, they must all be... I'd also question what his motivation to be there would be, and why management would put up with him. Not to impugn your friend, but it doesn't logically fit, somehow.

I would also like to point out that your loyal employee friend, by choosing to cross the picket line, is also a scab, as defined by the Concise Oxford Dictionary: "3. person who refuses to join strike or trade union or takes strikers' place or breaks rules of his trade or group". If her complaint is simply that the reported guy is a poor worker, or doesn't really need to work, I suppose that's one thing -- but if her criticism is primarily based on the fact that he's a scab, she might want to think about glass houses.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
lakeles
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posted 31 October 2005 08:25 AM      Profile for lakeles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Sec 45 of the Trade Union Act states that employees that have not participated in the strike are going to be excluded from voting.

This is not a well known or used section, but from what I have heard, the Union is going to utilize this.

I for one, believe that the Union should not be able to use these "off-the-beaten-track" tactics to sway the vote their way. I believe that all employees should be voting, whether participating in the strike action or not.

I really think that the longer this strike goes on, the Union looks big, as the expense of the employees. The Union Name gets a lot of press, but does that really help the employees?


From: Beautiful Turtle Lake in the Saskatchewan Boreal Forest | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Nam
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posted 31 October 2005 11:55 AM      Profile for Nam     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If you are referring to subsection (3) of Section 45, you need to read for comprehension. The subsection does not say those who aren't on the picket line can't vote - it says those employees who are involved in the strike can vote. "Involved" is a lot broader than "walking the line with a picket sign" so everyone involved does have the right to vote on the contract.
From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kaitlin Stocks
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posted 31 October 2005 06:43 PM      Profile for Kaitlin Stocks   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Zoot, I'm not trying to say that one kind of scab is better than the other, and I know my girlfriend is a scab. I'm just saying, why not pay them all the same - scab for scab, tooth for tooth, you know? I don't see how one scab should make more than the other for the same job. I know that they are a dime a dozen - But I don't think its fair that some are getting paid less than others.

And I know I'm making a bit of a blanket statement about lawyer's boy, but I guess that is just an example of what is going on there. Its sad and its pathetic, all round.


From: The City That Rhymes With Fun... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 31 October 2005 06:56 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm just saying, why not pay them all the same - scab for scab, tooth for tooth, you know?

Have you pointed out to your friend that her employer must think she's a total chump? The employer's objective in any labour dispute is to break the union by pitting one worker against another. Particularly, the employer tries to get misguided "loyal" workers to betray their colleagues by scabbing across their picket line. In your friends' case, the employer is not only exploiting her by doing so, but is also laying on an extra helping of humiliation by paying her less than other scabs. Why is your friend putting up with this? If money is the issue, surely your friend can find some other kind of work during the strike? Surely she must realize how pathetic her current situation is?


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
CourtneyGQuinn
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posted 31 October 2005 10:01 PM      Profile for CourtneyGQuinn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
think of a future where a "scab" is a robot....no offense to big box retail workers...but....ain't it possible to barcode/buy your own groceries without needing to see a human check-out, cash register person?....couldn't a relatively simple robot be constructed to stock shelves?....so many jobs could be made obsoulete by constructing a robot with dexterity/haptics ability....a simple one or two armed robot that does the job that too many human robots do....

perhaps "big labour" should turn into "big leisure"....rather then trying to protect obsoulete (or soon to be obsoulete) jobs...why not work towards a society where people need not worry about protecting crappy, monotenous, boring jobs...instead...why not use worker money/power to shed some light on jobs that needn't be done by humans


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 31 October 2005 10:21 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually, Courtney, with RFID technology, you won't even need the robot -- just go through the checkout with your goods and do the self-serve plastic thing to pay (like you already can at self-serve gas stations). Wal-Mart's already moving in that direction.
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
CourtneyGQuinn
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posted 31 October 2005 10:48 PM      Profile for CourtneyGQuinn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Zoot---

what do you think about RFID?....i hope the cashiers labour union doesn't try to block this technology to protect a few thousand check-out peoples jobs through-out Canada...

...i remember reading about some luddites a few hundred years ago in th UK that sabotaged automated fabric looms....it would seem these people were so mad that their jobs were being automated that they used destruction for job preservation...


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 31 October 2005 11:01 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Do we need RFID? Why do you think RFID should be encouraged?

The people who benefit most from this form of technology are the big outfits -- Wal-Mart being the biggest benefitter. The manufacturers are in many cases questioning the ROI of going RFID, but if they want to maintain contracts with Wal-Mart, they don't have a choice.

I'm not averse to technology, but I don't see any universal benefit to it.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
CourtneyGQuinn
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posted 31 October 2005 11:09 PM      Profile for CourtneyGQuinn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Zoot---

at the very least i think RFID/GPS should be used to track big purchase items (within stores/buildings at the very least)...in this day and age it should be impossible to steal anything worth more then a few hundred dollars....every expensive device should be tagged...

and RFID only makes sense for a few things so far...from what i know each RFID tag costs roughly .75 cents...so it would make no sense to tag a 10 cent package of Mr.Noodles...but a $3000 television?....


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 01 November 2005 01:06 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The problem with that line of thought, Courtney, is that RFID's theft prevention features are not the main reason that RFID is being pushed -- it's more to do with flow of inventory. And yes, Wal-Mart DOES want every item to be tagged, even the 10 cent package of whatever. That is why so many suppliers are concerned about the return on investment.

Anyway, this is thread drift. Maybe we should start another thread on this...


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
NeoCommIntern
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posted 03 November 2005 01:13 PM      Profile for NeoCommIntern   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think they should stay out until they get wage parody with the Saskatchewan Liquor Board.

People get paid 18 bucks an hour plus to put wine on shelves and ring through booze how much different is working in a grocery store. What about a pension plan for these folks similar to the largest employed group in Saskatchewan, Government workers.

Stand firm Brothers and Sisters.


From: Socialistic Haven Saskatchewan | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
NeoCommIntern
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posted 04 November 2005 05:24 PM      Profile for NeoCommIntern   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Really people we have to get these people a "living wage".

I submit that a living wage should be tied to the comparable government job done by unionized labour. Our NDP government must legislate wage parody. This in itself will not be enough as many government employees complain that there wages are still to low, but it will be a start.

Sask Liquor Store = Grocery Stores
Sask Tel Stores = Radio Shack and Future Shop
SGI workers = Independent Brokers
Sask Power = All electricians
Sask Highways = Mechanics
Sask Energy = All Service station attendants
Sask Tel = Shaw Cable employee's

We will never get everybody to join a union , we must legislate.

If we all just pay more for our groceries, then we can shop knowing that people are making a "living wage" which is what people need.


From: Socialistic Haven Saskatchewan | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Kaitlin Stocks
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posted 07 November 2005 02:12 PM      Profile for Kaitlin Stocks   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah. I do the same same same work that Sasktel people do - Except more wide an array. I process High Speed forms, dispatch technicians, deal with mobility issues, deal with sales and questions, deal with troubleshooting and issues... BUT - The only two differences are, I know how to do my job, and the fact that I get paid 11 dollars an hour LESS than they do.

Life's so fair.


From: The City That Rhymes With Fun... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 07 November 2005 02:16 PM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by NeoCommIntern:
Our NDP government must legislate wage parody.


Well, your posts are certainly a parody of something.


From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
lakeles
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posted 10 November 2005 10:27 AM      Profile for lakeles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
So what happened to the strike vote that Sobey's employees were supposed to have?? Don't tell me that the Union forgot to send out the letters until it was too late, or just delayed them??!! Must have been a Postal error! (said with very much tongue in cheek!)
So exactly why is this Union afraid of this vote!
Well, I, for one believe that these employees are much smarter than this union! And that these employees will win despite the union!

From: Beautiful Turtle Lake in the Saskatchewan Boreal Forest | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Anarchonostic
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posted 10 November 2005 02:54 PM      Profile for Anarchonostic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by NeoCommIntern:
Sask Tel = Shaw Cable employee's

Funny. Many Shaw Cable employees in the Vancouver area are unionised, and many earn just as much as TELUS employees doing the same type of work.

They were smart. They saw the benefits of unionisation at a different workplace and got on board. Instead of just bitching about other people's paycheques.

I don't know about other industries, but I know it's increasingly difficult to make a good wage in telecommunications, especially when you're just starting out. Talked to a feller the other day who worked for a brief time at an interconnect company before working with me at TELUS. Right out of school. They would call him into work on Saturday, he worked ten hours. Then, when his paycheque came, he asked why he wasn't paid enough. They told him that Saturday was considered unpaid training since he was helping out another tech on equipment he wasn't familiar with. Nice.

He didn't bitch about how other workers were treated at other workplaces. He got a better job.


From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Anarchonostic
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posted 10 November 2005 02:56 PM      Profile for Anarchonostic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by lakeles:
So what happened to the strike vote that Sobey's employees were supposed to have?? Don't tell me that the Union forgot to send out the letters until it was too late, or just delayed them??!! Must have been a Postal error! (said with very much tongue in cheek!)
So exactly why is this Union afraid of this vote!
Well, I, for one believe that these employees are much smarter than this union! And that these employees will win despite the union!

What strike vote - can you give us some context? Did the union promise a strike vote and then just plain not have it?


From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Nam
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posted 10 November 2005 04:34 PM      Profile for Nam     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Kaitlin Stocks:
Yeah. I do the same same same work that Sasktel people do - Except more wide an array. I process High Speed forms, dispatch technicians, deal with mobility issues, deal with sales and questions, deal with troubleshooting and issues... BUT - The only two differences are, I know how to do my job, and the fact that I get paid 11 dollars an hour LESS than they do.

Life's so fair.


Is one difference that fact that Sasktel employees are unionized and you're not?


From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Nam
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posted 10 November 2005 04:36 PM      Profile for Nam     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Anarchonostic:

What strike vote - can you give us some context? Did the union promise a strike vote and then just plain not have it?


I wouln't worry too much about this. Lakeles often says things that seem to make no sense whatsoever.


From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
lakeles
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posted 12 November 2005 09:13 AM      Profile for lakeles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Rumour has it that the Union promised the Labour board and management that there would be a vote last week. However, employees did not get a letter saying this. Maybe the Union voted on behalf of the employees...
You guys, I just feel bad for the majority of these employees. I think they are being taken advantage of by this union. I believe that this Union does not have their best interest at heart.

From: Beautiful Turtle Lake in the Saskatchewan Boreal Forest | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Anarchonostic
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posted 12 November 2005 03:41 PM      Profile for Anarchonostic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Maybe you're right. Going beyond rumours would do a lot to convince me though. They fly fast and furious during a labour dispute, and often mirror the attitudes and biases of those spreading them.

If the union promised the labour board and management a strike vote, and that vote didn't happen, wouldn't the board and management say something?


From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Here to defend the union
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posted 20 November 2005 09:07 PM      Profile for Here to defend the union   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
w0w .. where to start?

well here it goes. Let me introduce myself as one of the employees walking the picket line right now.

I heard about this disscussion going on by word of mouth on the picket line the other day and thought I should check it out.

Im not here to call anyone out - not here to quote individuals and call you names - not here to cause shit.

Im simply joining in the conversation to try and help shed some light on the situation. get 'our side of the story' heard. Help answer questions

I started reading from the top and read each and every post. there is a lot of mis-information posted there, a lot of assumtions. As I read I was trying to cut and paste to a word document with the intention of answering those quotes but when i came out with 2 full pages I kind of changed my direction.

If you want real information, the correct information, feel free to stop by and talk to the picketers or phone the RWDSU office at 569-9311

As well if any individuals out there would like clarification on anything posted here please feel free to e-mail me at sobeysstriker@hotmail.com


From: Regina | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Here to defend the union
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posted 20 November 2005 09:12 PM      Profile for Here to defend the union   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Kaitlin Stocks:
Now, I'm not sure if this is being discussed elsewhere... But I was just wondering what everyone thinks of a month long strike at Sobey's South in Regina. I think its a big silly to be completely honest... I understand the need for higher wages etc... But I'm just not understanding why these people are still on strike.. Especially why their Union (RWSDU or something...) keeps putting off talks with the store.

Help!!


RWDSU has never put off talks at any time. The owner of the store took 3months to hire a negotiator. we (the unionised employees)had our negotiator before the contract expired in January.
At the first day of negotiations we asked for 2 - 3 days at a time. The owners told us the can not be away from the store for negotations for more than onc day a month.


From: Regina | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Here to defend the union
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posted 20 November 2005 09:16 PM      Profile for Here to defend the union   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"...Anyway, I don't know specifics, but the staff seemed to start having problems when Sobey's took over the store. Many of the staff I see picketing are the same people who were working there when I shopped there. I find it hard to imagine they're doing it for no good reason.[/QB][/QUOTE]

**Sorry I deleted the part that says who origionally posted this **

The changeover to Sobeys did not affect the owners or the staff inside the store . It was at that time of the year that our negotiations started to move along

[ 20 November 2005: Message edited by: Here to defend the union ]


From: Regina | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Here to defend the union
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posted 20 November 2005 09:20 PM      Profile for Here to defend the union   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by robbie_dee:
Where did you get your information that the union is the one who keeps putting off talks? In my experience, usually the union is eager to go to the bargaining table and its management that drags its feet. Of course, I don't know about this particular situation. Maybe there's nothing to talk about (i.e. management is not making a reasonable offer)?

The companys offer is well below their competitors contracts. More importantly if you compare the Albert St. wages to the other 2 SOBEYS stores in the city you will see the Zook family pays thier staff a lower wage than those stores.
I would LOVE for someone to explain this fact to me


From: Regina | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Here to defend the union
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posted 20 November 2005 09:46 PM      Profile for Here to defend the union   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by lakeles:
I am so PO'd! I have read all the crap about this strike, and can't believe the garbage.

WHAT REALLY TICKS ME OFF, IS THE 18 PEOPLE, WHO SEEM TO BE ENJOYING THIS STRIKE, (You know, the 3 shifts of 6 holding signs causing traffic accidents, etc), HAVE BEEN targeting the employees that are still working. Obviously these are employees that are having their livelyhoods threatened. Let's face it, when you are supporting a family, your paycheck is important.

Rich Kids working. Well 'EXCUSE ME" Have you ever heard of responsibility! Get a job, earn a living?? Just because some parents are well off, doesn''t mean they don't promote good work ethics in their kids! Perhaps they are taking a lead from the owners of this store and their kids!..
Another LOAD of CRAP! According to the Trade Union Act, workers that have not participated in the strike, CAN NOT participate in the vote! Well slap me if I'm stupid... but let's see... they are employed by this store, but won't take strike action.... so they can't vote..... PERHAPS THE STRIKE VOTE WASN'T LEGAL TO BEGIN WITH!

The Union is NOT allowing them to participate in votes! Let's face it... the Union woudn't be able to continue this illegal strike, admitting they didn't have the participating votes!

I believe they didn't have the vote to strike to begin with.... IN FACT,they refused to have a vote count amidst all the voters,
Sounds way too fishy to me..

What I really can't figure out... This is a MOM & POPS Store. It is owned by 2 individuals that have put themselves into debt, ... Have mortgaged everything they owned...

They are not Millionairs.... They are not Corporate Big Wigs... They are Hard-Working & caring. They are You & Me!

This Union has abused this to the point or ridiculous! This Union has lied. This Union is taking the employee's money & doesn't give a crap!

Let's be serious... Do you really think this Union is losing sleep when the members are not getting a paycheck?
Trust me, they won't be buying their member's family Christmas presents! But maybe you should talk to Wayne & Joan... there is no questions they would make sure your kids had presents under the tree.


1> show me PROOF that we have been the cause of a single accident sice we started walking Sept.11

2> there are several people walking that are the sole income to their family. i dont know of a single person that has crossed the line to continue to work is supporting a family.

3> there is legislation within the trade union act that prevents them from voting. Sorry I dont have that info infront of me but if you want i can find it for you

4> Do you honestly believe the Wayne Zook would allow this strike to continue if it was not legal?

5> the union has never told anyone they can not participate in the strike. The workers in the store right now have been told that they are welcome to join us at any point of the dispute. There have been some people that came out shortly after the strike began. there was one person that decided to go in and came back out again.

6> its not a mom and pop store. It is a split between the Zook Family and the Sobeys company. You mention a mortgages. The family & kids has no problem getting new vehicles for themselves. They even purchased a cottage during the despute. Would they do these thigs if they were losing money in the company? And another point to add to this particular thought. How many people reading this own a car that has absolutely no financing owing on it or a house with NO mortgage. Financing and making loan payments are a part of everybodys life!

7> the members walking the line did recieve a donation from the union at Thanksgiving. I'll et you know in a few weeks what happens for Christmas. If you can ignore this dispute for just a moment I would like to say something. If you look at the employees in the store with families there are maybe 10 children total under the age of 12. Not once has Wayne or Joan Zook given any of these children a gift for christmas.

[ 21 November 2005: Message edited by: Here to defend the union ]


From: Regina | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Here to defend the union
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posted 20 November 2005 09:51 PM      Profile for Here to defend the union   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by lakeles:
Sec 45 of the Trade Union Act states that employees that have not participated in the strike are going to be excluded from voting.

This is not a well known or used section, but from what I have heard, the Union is going to utilize this.

I for one, believe that the Union should not be able to use these "off-the-beaten-track" tactics to sway the vote their way. I believe that all employees should be voting, whether participating in the strike action or not.

I really think that the longer this strike goes on, the Union looks big, as the expense of the employees. The Union Name gets a lot of press, but does that really help the employees?



The only part of the trade union act that the RWDSU used was the part that reads that any group of employees with 25% support can ask to have a vote taken on the most current offer made by the company. This is a vote conducted and supervised by the labor board. this way the union cant say certain individuals shouldnt vote and the strike-breakers cant say the union didnt count votes properly. Once that application is made the Labor Board takes over and that is where the hold up has been. the union and the company wated this vote to take place weeks ago.


From: Regina | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Here to defend the union
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posted 20 November 2005 09:54 PM      Profile for Here to defend the union   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Nam:
If you are referring to subsection (3) of Section 45, you need to read for comprehension. The subsection does not say those who aren't on the picket line can't vote - it says those employees who are involved in the strike can vote. "Involved" is a lot broader than "walking the line with a picket sign" so everyone involved does have the right to vote on the contract.

Again it was the labor board that made the final decision as to the definition of 'involved in a strike' and provided both sides a list of voters.


From: Regina | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Here to defend the union
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posted 20 November 2005 09:59 PM      Profile for Here to defend the union   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by NeoCommIntern:
I think they should stay out until they get wage parody with the Saskatchewan Liquor Board.....

Honestly what we are asking for in wages doesnt bring us equal to the other two Sobeys stores in the city. Let alone the compitition. And I'd like to say that Wayne Zook compares his staff to a fast food chain such as McDonalds. Why would he not compare us to Safeway, Superstore, Co-Op ANY other grocery store?


From: Regina | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Here to defend the union
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posted 20 November 2005 10:02 PM      Profile for Here to defend the union   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by lakeles:
So what happened to the strike vote that Sobey's employees were supposed to have?? Don't tell me that the Union forgot to send out the letters until it was too late, or just delayed them??!! Must have been a Postal error! (said with very much tongue in cheek!)
So exactly why is this Union afraid of this vote!
Well, I, for one believe that these employees are much smarter than this union! And that these employees will win despite the union!

What vote are you talking about? Before both sides being given notice by the Labor Board of a vote that will take place Nov.21 there was NEVER supposed to be a vote. Tell me where you heard this from?

[ 20 November 2005: Message edited by: Here to defend the union ]


From: Regina | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Here to defend the union
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posted 20 November 2005 10:06 PM      Profile for Here to defend the union   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by lakeles:
Rumour has it that the Union promised the Labour board and management that there would be a vote last week. However, employees did not get a letter saying this. Maybe the Union voted on behalf of the employees...
You guys, I just feel bad for the majority of these employees. I think they are being taken advantage of by this union. I believe that this Union does not have their best interest at heart.

you came *SO* close this time. let me fix it for you. the Labor Board said the vote should happen at that time if they were able to have people there. The union will never vote on behalf of the employees. We are being taken advantage of by the Zook family that feels they can keep our wages lower than the other 2 Sobeys store and ALL of our compitition.


From: Regina | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
a lonely worker
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posted 20 November 2005 11:45 PM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thanks for the great info "Here to Defend the Union."

Many of us are with you. I am always amazed how quickly any labour dispute gets spun against the workers by trolls like "lakeles" who quickly disappear as soon as the workers win their struggle.

I'm also amazed how quickly people who claim to be "progressive" are always quick to buy the boss must be right mentality.

If more people organised their workplaces maybe some of the posters complaining about higher unionised wages and benefits might start seeing IMPROVEMENTS instead of wishing that their unionised counterparts be dragged down to their mcwage level.

Look at progressive countries like in Scandinavia with high rates of unionisation. We can achieve this if people stopped wishing ill on a fellow worker and actually started doing what these workers in Sobey's are doing; standing their ground and fighting for it!

On another issue I thought Saskatchewan had anti-scab legislation. I guess that assumption is wrong. I hope people force the so-called progressive government to start acting like one again.

It sounds to me that these workers are being screwed by an anti-union family that is paying less than the going rate for comparable stores in the city. Has there been any mediation attempts showing the other pay scales?

I'm surprised to hear that you're still with the RW. I didn't realise there were any RW workplaces left after the "mergers" with the Steelworkers, UFCW and CAW (some more successful than others).

Sobey's is one of the most anti-union employers in this country with a swath of destruction that started in the atlantic and is spreading across the country.

Hang in the HTDTU, please let us know if there's anything those of us who care about fellow workers struggles for justice can do to help.

In Solidarity;
LW


From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 21 November 2005 03:30 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Labour strife is just one of the problems with vast concentration of wealth in the hands of 30 or so families, a few multinational corporations and banks in Canada. Unchecked, concentration of wealth forces many Canadians to overpay for food staples and services, hurts small investment, kills job opportunties and not what true democracy is about. We don't have democracy in Canada. It's a sham.

Viva la revolucion!


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Here to defend the union
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posted 10 December 2005 02:13 PM      Profile for Here to defend the union   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So .. i have a question I'd like to direct to ""lakeles""

you said a while back --
"...Let's be serious... Do you really think this Union is losing sleep when the members are not getting a paycheck?
Trust me, they won't be buying their member's family Christmas presents! But maybe you should talk to Wayne & Joan... there is no questions they would make sure your kids had presents under the tree.""

With Christmas just around the corner, can you tell me how I might go about getting these presents you speak of? Because Joan's last comment to the negotating committee was to the effect of - we'll see you in the spring.
if she had ANY amout of compasion for the families out there she would not say a thing like this during the christmas season or at ANY time of the year for that matter.


On another note - their 'barganing style' is quite childish! They say they want a day of negotiations yet they have no desire to talk once that day comes. they make no effort to move forward and try to bring the sides closer. Its almost like they find humor giving a proposal that is worse than their last offer. "negotiating" means working toward a common middle.

Yes, the weather is cold now but not NEARLY as cold as the souls of the Zook Family.


From: Regina | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
lakeles
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posted 14 December 2005 11:40 PM      Profile for lakeles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
This strike has taken its toll on everyone, and the timing of it has further enhanced to frustrate the situation. For employees, it is the start of school and afterschool programs for their kids, thanksgiving and Christmas. For the store, it is 3 of their biggest sale months.

All of which are lost.

So as I said to begin with, I do not believe this strike is in the best interest of anyone.

What scares me about this union is what I have seen happen in the past ie the hotel in (I believe) Weyburn. Who wins there? Didn't they just end up boarding up the doors? What about the Imperial 400 in Saskatoon. How many years were they on strike?

I believe the problem is the union.

In closing, I wish you and your family the best over Christmas.


From: Beautiful Turtle Lake in the Saskatchewan Boreal Forest | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 18 December 2005 01:19 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Boycott Sobeys! (pdf)

quote:
For Immediate Release December 15, 2005

SFL Calls for Sobeys’ Boycott

Today the Saskatchewan Federation of Labour Executive Council endorsed a boycott of Sobeys stores in Regina and Saskatoon. Members of Retail, Wholesale, Department Store Union Local 454 have been on strike since September 11th, 2005 at the South Albert Street Sobeys in Regina.

Sobeys is refusing to provide competitive rates of pay to its employees and in fact, pays workers in its non-unionized stores higher hourly wages.

“We are asking consumers not to shop at Sobeys until this dispute is settled,” said SFL President Larry Hubich.

“At this time of year it is especially important to support workers who are struggling to make ends meet after months without a pay cheque. We urge trade unionists and the communities of Regina and Saskatoon to support this boycott”, added Hubich.

The franchise owners of South Albert Street Sobeys have been found guilty of numerous unfair labour practices by the Saskatchewan Labour Relations Board. The Company has been promoting or encouraging decertification every year since it was first organized in 1999 and in Saskatoon the UFCW has lost their store through similar interference.

“You have to question what future there is for young workers in Saskatchewan when they are confronted with unfair working conditions, intimidation and lack of respect in the workplace”, said Hubich, “this is why these workers are braving the freezing weather fighting for dignity.”


[ 18 December 2005: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Here to defend the union
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posted 21 December 2005 10:47 AM      Profile for Here to defend the union   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thank you for that Post Robbie

And in response to lakeles.
If the company was concerned about losing these 3 months of sales they would have used a better style of bargaining. When they were given strike notice they could have made an offer. When they realized that we were NOT bluffing with stike notice and walked out they coulad have made an offer. If they REALLY wanted to settle this they would not have walked away just the other week with the comment of "See you in the Spring". They have had almost an entire YEAR to make an offer we would be willing to accept but more importantly they have had TWELVE MONTHS and have not yet actually negotiated. The union gies and offer and all they say is NO they give no insight as to where we could go or where they are willing to work towards. they just turtle up and walk away.

The most frusterating part about this is the fact they tell their replacement worker that the Union was the ones to walk away from the table. And back in November they were telling people that this would be cleard up and the picket line gone by Nov11 Where they got that idea without even having a decent offer on the table is far beyond me.

As far as the students are concerned they are MUCH happier walking because they can have their schedule made so it doesnt conflict with their class times. This is something the company wants to take away from these kids. The company expects these kids, students, to put the interests of Sobeys ahead of their education.

If this Sobeys location is a "mom and Pops corner store" as it was called in the past by a previous poster do you think the Zook Family could afford to walk away and leave it sit empty and continue the dispute?

Thank you once again for taking the time to read this and you too have a happy and safe Christmas Season


From: Regina | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
lakeles
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posted 02 January 2006 12:21 AM      Profile for lakeles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I have to respond... I really loved this part: "As far as the students are concerned they are MUCH happier walking because they can have their schedule made so it doesnt conflict with their class times. This is something the company wants to take away from these kids. The company expects these kids, students, to put the interests of Sobeys ahead of their education."

What a load of garbage. Wouldn't a much more accurate statement be; "The students are happy because they are making more money for their 2 hrs on the picket line per day then they were working."

I'm really glad to see that your hard earned money, that you had to pay in Union dues each month is going to help students. I'm sure they also appreciate you donating to their social fund.

You know, I was doing a little more digging into this Union, and I really still think I am right.
They don't care about the employees. For another example, McDonalds Consolidated in Saskatoon goes on strike.... they end up shutting down. McDonalds Consolidated in Regina goes on strike... they end up closing up shop there too. So exactly how did this help their striking employees?

I believe they are taking your money, (and in a quick calculation, I think its ALOT OF MONEY,) and do not have your best interests at heart.
I believe you would be much better off handling your own destiny!

Sincere wishes for a Happy New Year.


From: Beautiful Turtle Lake in the Saskatchewan Boreal Forest | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
rdwsu
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posted 03 January 2006 07:48 PM      Profile for rdwsu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
i cant belive all them lazy over paid workers can walk for 4 hours a day if you want safeway wages GO WORK THERE. for an uneducated job you strikers get paid well i dont wanna pay $20 for a loaf of bread you say sobeys is a million doller company look how much you union makes hosing ya eh. are you to afaid that you dont earn your raise ???
From: butmark | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 03 January 2006 08:39 PM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by lakeles:
For employees, it is the start of school and afterschool programs for their kids, thanksgiving and Christmas. For the store, it is 3 of their biggest sale months.

All of which are lost.



The store's lost its three biggest sales months? Funny, that parking lot looks awfully full each and every day I drive by.

Which doesn't bode well for the strikers, mind. But this whole "pity the poor store" line doesn't fly. The store's doors are open, and consumers are crossing the picket line as if there weren't a strike at all.

quote:
You know, I was doing a little more digging into this Union, and I really still think I am right.

It would be appreciated if you'd provide some backup to that statement.

After all, I did some digging on RWDSU and I think you're wrong.*

* No actual digging on RWDSU was done by me. God bless the Internet, land of unsubstantiated allegations.

quote:
Originally posted by rdwsu:
i cant belive all them lazy over paid workers can walk for 4 hours a day if you want safeway wages GO WORK THERE. for an uneducated job you strikers get paid well i dont wanna pay $20 for a loaf of bread you say sobeys is a million doller company look how much you union makes hosing ya eh. are you to afaid that you dont earn your raise ???

i cant belive you lazy trolling posters can post a full paragraph and not use any punctation or propr speling if you want to write betr GO TO SCHOOL. for an uninformed slob you posters have too much time on your hand you say the issues is wasted on peopl lik u well look how much your school made off you and you still can't reason gud are you afraid that you arent smart enuff?

[ 03 January 2006: Message edited by: Erstwhile ]


From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 January 2006 11:14 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by robbie_dee:
[QB]Boycott Sobeys! (pdf)
[QB]

Hmm, we might be on the same e-mailing list. I printed that announcement a few weeks ago and posted it at work.

I'd say "Go shop at the Co-op" (which is what I do) but they had a nasty strike there about 25 years ago. Maybe things are better now?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
lakeles
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posted 03 January 2006 11:37 PM      Profile for lakeles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Erstwhile Quote: It would be appreciated if you'd provide some backup to that statement.
After all, I did some digging on RWDSU and I think you're wrong.*


Like you I don't believe much on the internet, unless of course it has to do with Britney Spears! My substantiation came when I called someone I know that used to work there.

On a bit of a side note, there was an article in the Star Phoenix a week or so before x-mas about the population of Saskatchewan, and how it had declined. Well, I wonder why the Sask Federation of Labour or unions like RWDSUU never comment on these facts. Perhaps they shoulder alot of the blame.... (Just something to think about).

As always, I look foward to hearing from you all!


From: Beautiful Turtle Lake in the Saskatchewan Boreal Forest | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 03 January 2006 11:49 PM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by lakeles:
What a load of garbage. Wouldn't a much more accurate statement be; "The students are happy because they are making more money for their 2 hrs on the picket line per day then they were working."

You don't know what you are talking about. First of all, where do you get the ideat that strike pay is greater than what the workers would receive if they were actually working?

Secondly, labour disputes are hardest on the workers themselves. They know this going into negotiations, and if they feel there is no other way to reach a settlement, they will go on strike and take the risks associated with it to try and fight for a fair deal. Not to be neglected is the position that the union negotiators find themselves in during a strike. They are simultaneously under pressure from their workers to reach a decent settlement ASAP and at the same time under pressure from the employer to back off on some demands.

Are unions always right during a labour dispute? No, they aren't. However, during a labour dispute, time is on the side of the employer, because the employer can basically keep the workers out of work long enought that they will accept any settlement just to end the strike (basibally starving them into submission).

quote:
Originally posted by lakeles:
On a bit of a side note, there was an article in the Star Phoenix a week or so before x-mas about the population of Saskatchewan, and how it had declined. Well, I wonder why the Sask Federation of Labour or unions like RWDSUU never comment on these facts. Perhaps they shoulder alot of the blame.... (Just something to think about).

And what substantial evidence could you offer that unions, and the SFL are responsible for population loss?

Hey, I'll continue playing this game of baseless assumptions by adding one of my own. Maybe the population of Saskatchewan is declining because they'd rather go to jurisdictions where people are being paid better (*cough*Alberta*cough*) as opposed to staying in Saskatchewan and having to fight constantly for fair pay.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
lakeles
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posted 04 January 2006 12:43 AM      Profile for lakeles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
There is something to be said about going to live in Alberta... Prosperity sounds good.
As for wage comparison, you have to be in a province that has money to pay money... Thinking that Sask wages could be comparable to Alta is ludicrous. We can't even get rid of our 7% PST. Maybe the government should put that in employees pockets, and save all from a strike.
Saskatchewan is a sinking ship..
(Signed, Born & Raised in Saskatchewan & Still Here!)

Another thought for comment .... when it is -27 degrees, how come employees can't be forced, by employers to work outside for longer than an hour, but the Union can make them picket for 2 hours... Someone should phone occupational health & safety!

As always...


From: Beautiful Turtle Lake in the Saskatchewan Boreal Forest | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
rdwsu
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posted 04 January 2006 05:48 PM      Profile for rdwsu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
are unions a joke ? why do they keep telling you the company you work for owes you? Benefits retirement and not to over work you,ect. The company you work for owes you nothing except the hourly pay you agreed on when you were hired, anything more then that is a bonus, if you are ever unhappy with your job you have the choice to get a new one don't you?
Here is an idea if rdwsu thinks all employees deserve to be paid more and worked less they can open there own business and pay there employees what they want .i think unions were good in there prime now their all about the money.
Sask. has laws minimum wage and such anything more then that is a plus. If you cant afford to put food on your table get a second job. And you should be happy that this isn't a poor country where you work for 12 hours for a meal . So dust off your work boots and earn your living, and stop complaining about your over worked and under paid and comparing paycheques . if you need a bigger one earn it

From: butmark | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
lakeles
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posted 04 January 2006 07:19 PM      Profile for lakeles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
To rdwsu - Well Said.
From: Beautiful Turtle Lake in the Saskatchewan Boreal Forest | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 04 January 2006 08:42 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by lakeles:
To rdwsu - Well Said.

Please tell me you're being ironic about the anti-union scrawl above.


From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
lakeles
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posted 04 January 2006 10:51 PM      Profile for lakeles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Not at all. In fact, I wish I wrote it.

I also think that this union will suck the life out of these employees.


From: Beautiful Turtle Lake in the Saskatchewan Boreal Forest | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 06 January 2006 12:47 PM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by rdwsu:
The company you work for owes you nothing except the hourly pay you agreed on when you were hired, anything more then that is a bonus, if you are ever unhappy with your job you have the choice to get a new one don't you?


Collective bargaining's all about contracts, Junior. At the end of the day it's all about living up to contractual agreements. So, actually, yeah, they do owe you more than your hourly rate, if your contract provides for it, and strikes and lockouts are an inevitable part of the bargaining process. Don't like it? Work to change the Trade Union Act.

Never mind their obligations under the Occupational Health & Safety Act, Labour Standards Act, and similar statutes. Improvements to which have been fought for and won, at least in part, by unions since they were first instituted.

But then I'm sure you know all about the law and about being in a union, right?

Wait, wait, I'll type your response for you. Save you the time.

quote:
no i dont know abot the law ive never read teh labour standrds act or the occpational safety act and as for the trad union act it has teh word union in it so i think its a bad thing no ive never been in a union and i dont know anythin about collective bargining but its just common sense!

And by the way, it's "RWDSU".

quote:
Originally posted by Aristotleded24:
Hey, I'll continue playing this game of baseless assumptions by adding one of my own.

No, no, it's the Zeta Rays! People in saskatchewan are fleeing overexposure to Zeta Rays due to the infiltration of our government by our soon-to-be alien overlords!

(Good post generally, btw, Aristotleded24.)

Anyway, it's always interesting to hear the anti-union voices these days. In the 1950's these shrill whiners would have been decrying the very existence of unions, but now they take the tack that "unions used to be good but now are bad, so get rid of 'em". Same goal, different rhetoric. What's funny is they think they're being so very clever - that their arguments aren't entirely transparent, hackneyed or predictable.

Kind of like the corporate shills that trot out regarding global warming. Originally global warming didn't exist, according to the shills. Now it definitely exists, but is not caused by human activity, also according to the shills. Funny how the same facts can lead to such different conclusions within a year or two.

quote:
Originally posted by lakeles:
Not at all. In fact, I wish I wrote it.

Perhaps if you smashed your "Shift" key and drove a railroad spike through your forehead you, too, could write like that.

quote:
Originally posted by lakeles:
I also think that this union will suck the life out of these employees.

Given that you've failed to give anything beyond allegations in this thread, you'll pardon me if I don't give what you "think" much credence.

[ 06 January 2006: Message edited by: Erstwhile ]


From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
got mud?
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posted 07 January 2006 05:30 AM      Profile for got mud?        Edit/Delete Post
Is every one finished whining yet? I know, the whole planet is out to get you. So we better ban together and stay stong. My God, does any one believe any of this B.S? If you don't like where you are working...get a new job. If you don't like how the place is run...open your own. It's a free country. No one forced you to work a there. So why are you to deligate how its run and what the pay is. So what if safeway pays more. Go work there then. Are you too lazy to get an application?
The unions crying that they were replaced by scab labour. NEWS FLASH...you job wasn't that hard if you were that easliy replaced. So why do you think you deserve the big bucks?
The union cries that the owners have nice cars and houses etc...ANOTHER NEWS FLASH...SO WHAT? ..at some point they worked hard, saved up and bought the store. Of course they make more than the workers. If your jealous, save up, open your own business and see how easy it is to run.
The union was upset they were refered to as McDonald workers. If I worked at McDonalds, I would be P.o.ed that I was compared to a Sobeys worker, because working in fast food is one of the most hectic jobs out there.
And are these people for real, when they think a business should schedule around there personal lives cause they want to go to school or what ever..SUCK IT UP PRINCESS!...That's why its called a job.If the job does offer the shifts that suit you,get a different job.
The fact of the matter is, these workers can't stand up on thier own merrit. Face it. Bagging groceries is not a career. Just becuase your too lazy to actually put any effort into life and work at a job that does offer high wages, what makes you think you can force a company to pay you for nothing.
I dare any one to respond back as to what tasks of working in a grocery store justify a raise.What education did you need? Maybe danger pay?I can just imagine the physical labour involved..putting a can on a shelf.

ONCE AGAIN ..ANSWER TO EVRYONE OF THE UNIONS CRIES..START YOUR OWN BUSINESS AND RUN IT HOWEVER YOU LIKE. STOP YOUR COMPLAINING. OR ARE YOU TOO LAZT TO TRY AND RUN A BUSINESS?????????


From: regina | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
got mud?
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posted 07 January 2006 05:34 AM      Profile for got mud?        Edit/Delete Post
oops pardon my typos
From: regina | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
got mud?
recent-rabble-rouser
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posted 07 January 2006 05:45 AM      Profile for got mud?        Edit/Delete Post
On another note..One day while crossing the wonderful picket line to get my groceries, I was handed a leaflet from union reps saying how they are such loyal great employees and deserve better pay. Do they think the world is retarded? You publicly slander the owners calling them crooks and call for a Sobeys boycott. Wow sounds pretty loyal to me. If I ever had an employee steering away buisness they would be fired quicker than the door could hit them on the way out.
And what a great example to our youth. If you don't get what you want. stop working and whine and cry till you do..Good show, your parents must be proud.

From: regina | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
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posted 07 January 2006 11:34 AM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Someone remind me again that this is a progressive board.

And why, in general, are pro-business, conservative posters so angry, so hysterical and so inarticulate?

I am reminded of two sayings - one a bumper sticker in the 1980s in Cleveland : "Proudly Serving My Corporate Masters." The other a quote from Nazi Labour Minister Robert Ley: "Only the employer can decide."

Me, I don't enjoy serfdom for the privilege of food and shelter, thanks. Maybe some day the human race will evolve from predatory capitalism before we destroy ourselves.


From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 07 January 2006 11:46 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Américain Égalitaire:
Someone remind me again that this is a progressive board.

I'll do better than that. I'll remind mud by notifying the moderator.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 07 January 2006 02:36 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
got mud? is mud.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 07 January 2006 02:42 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post

[ 07 January 2006: Message edited by: RealityBites ]


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
ThavenMaven
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posted 07 January 2006 06:14 PM      Profile for ThavenMaven   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
First off, I'm just a curious person lookin to see this situation more clearly.

Both sides are doing the right thing for their own interests. At the end of the day, you have to weigh the pros and cons about what a strike is going to accomplish.

I have questions!

If the strike was for the greater benefit of its members, why are there scabs...and why aren't there more employees walking the picket lines? I would think that if the goals of the strike were for the greater good of the employees at Sobeys, there would be far more strikers on the lines. I also believe that if the public in general agreed with what the union was shooting for, they'd be more active in boycotting the store. Are the proposed agreements available for the public at large to read? Would publishing these proposed agreements be detremental to one side or the other?

What does having a new car got to do with employee rights? Or a new cottage? Do Wayne and Joan not have the right to enjoy the fruits of their labours?

Being jealous of the fruits of another person's hard work is not, in my opinion, a justification for wanting more from said employer. Working hard, demonstrating to an employer the value of one's efforts, being a reliable source of valuable service are. I agree that employers have a responsibility to ensure certain things to their staff: safe working conditions, etc. Employers however do not have a responsibility to ensure the quality of living outside of the workplace is equal to or greater than their own.

You can have your cake and eat it to. But it requires a willingness to achieve compromise. I believe that the store would do this unless they had reasonable cause not to. Has the question of profit-sharing ever been considered? To my knowledge, this would seem to be a good idea for both the employer and the employee, no? Is it not feasable, or practical?

What do the strikers stand to loose by returning to work? Are the conditions that deplorable? Are the employers that tyranical? And why is it that, to the best of my knowledge, the other two Sobeys aren't unionized?



From: Saskatchewan | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 07 January 2006 09:15 PM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by ThavenMaven:
What does having a new car got to do with employee rights? Or a new cottage? Do Wayne and Joan not have the right to enjoy the fruits of their labours?

Being jealous of the fruits of another person's hard work is not, in my opinion, a justification for wanting more from said employer. Working hard, demonstrating to an employer the value of one's efforts, being a reliable source of valuable service are. I agree that employers have a responsibility to ensure certain things to their staff: safe working conditions, etc. Employers however do not have a responsibility to ensure the quality of living outside of the workplace is equal to or greater than their own.


It would seem to me that a store owner is, in large measure, reaping the fruits of the labour of the employees. Basically, if you're working for someone else, you are giving up that part of your life so that person can make a profit, and you have a right to have a voice in determining what is fair compensation.

And that demostrating value to an employer is a subjective call to be made by the employer. In some cases, employers reward honset hard work in their workplaces, in other cases employers play games that the employees must play to get ahead. (Ever read Dilbert or watched Office Space?) Any non-unionised employee is at the mercy of his or her employer. Unionisation allows employees to do such things as accept or reject offers from their employer, wheras in non-union environments, accepting or rejecting the employers terms can mean the difference between having a job or not.

I hope this helps to clear things up a bit.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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Babbler # 518

posted 07 January 2006 10:07 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I agree that employers have a responsibility to ensure certain things to their staff: safe working conditions, etc. Employers however do not have a responsibility to ensure the quality of living outside of the workplace is equal to or greater than their own.

I believe that the distribution of property, and thus wealth, in this society, is based on nothing more than power.

That is: there is no other principle which justifies the wealth of some, and the poverty of others.

So, I agree with the Italian strikers from the 1970's who, when asked what they were striking for said: "Que voliamos? Voliamos tutto."

"What do we want? We want everything."


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Blink
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posted 07 January 2006 10:16 PM      Profile for Blink     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Aristotleded24:
Any non-unionised employee is at the mercy of his or her employer.

I really don't think it's as bleak as you make it sound. I've worked in both types of environments. You could just as easily say "Any unionised employee is at the mercy of his or her union." I really don't see it in terms of black and white anymore.


From: British Columbia | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
forward
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posted 08 January 2006 12:02 PM      Profile for forward        Edit/Delete Post
At the risk of being called a capitalist as well and being scorned at, I would tend to agree with Got Mud?. Although his thoughts were a little abrubt, It was the truth. Often people don't want to here the truth and realities of life. Far to often people find it easier to play the role of the victim. Its easier to believe that we can't change things and that we are a victim of circumstance. When the truth of the matter is we all control our own destiny by the choices in life that we make.
All these these statements about an employer owing the employee a fair shake is nothing more than making the employee out to be a victim. Truth of the matter is, the employee made a desision to work at a certain place.Now if that employer doesn't provide the compensation adequate to sustain the lifestyle one wishes to have, then they also have the choice to choose a different employer. Or to even go one step further, one can choose to become an employer such as Got Mud? stateted.
All these accusations are meerley excuses to steer people away from the truth in order to play the role of the victim. Its time that society starts to accept the consequences of thier own actions. Stop blamming others for our destiny and make the changes within ourselves nessesary to achive our goals. After all this is Canada. A free country. Anyone can be what ever they want to be.As rich as they want to be, and as happy as they want to be. Everything else is nothing more than excuses not to change oneself in order to achieve goals.

From: regina | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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Babbler # 195

posted 08 January 2006 01:08 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
After all this is Canada. A free country. Anyone can be what ever they want to be.As rich as they want to be, and as happy as they want to be. Everything else is nothing more than excuses not to change oneself in order to achieve goals.[/QB]

Ooh! Can I get a pony?

You are right, though, that Canada is supposed to be a free country.

In a free country, workers should be:

1. Free to join the union of their choosing

2. Free to bargain collectively, as well as individually, over their wages and working conditions

3. Free to withdraw their labor, collectively, in order to negotiate better wages and working conditions with their employer.

Labour rights are human rights!

[ 08 January 2006: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Blink
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posted 08 January 2006 01:15 PM      Profile for Blink     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
robbie_dee, would you include within those rights the choice not to work in a unionized environment and the right to respectfully give your reasons for that choice without automatically being labelled a "shrill whiner"?
From: British Columbia | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 08 January 2006 01:22 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I do believe that collective bargaining is an inherently democratic form of setting wages and working conditions. In light of the power imbalances inherent in the employer-employee relationship, I think workplaces need all the democracy they can get. However, I am open to other forms of democratic representation or participation that may also be devised by workers. Co-ops, for example, can be a perfectly reasonable alternative.

As far as being labelled a "shrill whiner," though, I am sorry to say that's free speech and you will just have to put up with it.

[ 08 January 2006: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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Babbler # 518

posted 08 January 2006 01:25 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, I think Robbie Dee should not have used the word "shrill".

But those who "choose not to work in unionized environments" seem to wish to have the benefits secured by unions, whether directly or indirectly.

They want a free ride.

Of course, many of them are hoping to ingratiate themselves with The Boss, so as to perhaps eventually become Assistant Manager/Potato Chips, and then be able to feel Entirely Vindicated.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Blink
rabble-rouser
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posted 08 January 2006 01:26 PM      Profile for Blink     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by robbie_dee:
I do believe that collective bargaining is an inherently democratic form of setting wages and working conditions. In light of the power imbalances inherent in the employer-employee relationship, I think workplaces need all the democracy they can get. However, I am open to other forms of democratic representation that may also be devised by workers. Workers should certainly have a right to work where they like, and devise the forms of representation which best suit them. Co-ops, for example, can be a perfectly reasonable alternative.

As far as being labelled a "shrill whiner," though, I am sorry to say that's free speech and you will just have to put up with it.


But what about the right to individually negotiate your own terms with your employer? Isn't it inherently democratic to allow people to make their own best choices?

And, as for free speech, you're quite right. So the next time that happens to me, I'll reply that the stereotypical union worker is lazy, untalented, unmotivated and relies on union bullying to get what is not theirs. Hey, free speech.


From: British Columbia | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
rabble-rouser
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posted 08 January 2006 01:27 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I never used the word "shrill" except as a direct quote.
From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
forward
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posted 08 January 2006 01:30 PM      Profile for forward        Edit/Delete Post
Nice try . A half true statement doesn't make it true. Of course we have human rights, but it is not a human right if it infinges on someone elses human rights. For example...
The Zook family has the right to earn a living aswell. The scab labourers and the employees that choose not to strike,also have the right to earn a living. They are not hurting anyone by doing so. As you stated, of which you are correct, people have the right to withdraw thier labour and the right to bargain collectively. But they do not have the right to force someone into an agreement. In short, in this case, the Zook family made an offer, the offer was rejected and some employees exercised thier right to withdraw thier labour. Which is fine. They now are free to exercise thier right to obtain new employement. However,by striking and trying to boycott they are infringing on the rights of the store owners.

From: regina | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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Babbler # 195

posted 08 January 2006 01:31 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But what about the right to individually negotiate your own terms with your employer? Isn't it inherently democratic to allow people to make their own best choices?

Individual negotiation with your employer isn't negotiation at all. It's more like the employer tells what he will give, and you take it. You have no real leverage as an individual lined up against the employer's much stronger economic power. But hey, suit yourself. You have the right to make foolish choices, too.


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Blink
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11402

posted 08 January 2006 01:32 PM      Profile for Blink     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:
Yes, I think Robbie Dee should not have used the word "shrill".

I don't think he did. I was referring to an earlier poster.

quote:
But those who "choose not to work in unionized environments" seem to wish to have the benefits secured by unions, whether directly or indirectly.

No, I don't actually. I don't want the benefit of collective bargaining. I don't want a set pay scale. I don't want to lose the right to individually negotiate.

I acknowledge that unions have made great improvements to working life. It's impossible not to benefit from those. But we benefit from all kinds of past endeavours. I'm thankful we don't have to deal with smallpox anymore. But do I continue to owe something to medicine?

quote:
Of course, many of them are hoping to ingratiate themselves with The Boss, so as to perhaps eventually become Assistant Manager/Potato Chips, and then be able to feel Entirely Vindicated.

No, actually, I have a great working relationship with my employer that would be impossible otherwise. Nobody is ingratiated and your example is just as offensive as the "shrill whiner" comment above.


From: British Columbia | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 08 January 2006 01:33 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But what about the right to individually negotiate your own terms with your employer?

In the real world, "negotiating your own terms" with an employer means accepting the employer's terms, unless you are talking about Dad or the Maple Leafs.

When capitalists pool their capital to create stronger entities, workers have to pool their strength. "Bargaining as an individual" is basically begging.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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Babbler # 195

posted 08 January 2006 01:33 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The Zook family has the right to earn a living aswell. The scab labourers and the employees that choose not to strike,also have the right to earn a living. They are not hurting anyone by doing so. As you stated, of which you are correct, people have the right to withdraw thier labour and the right to bargain collectively. But they do not have the right to force someone into an agreement. In short, in this case, the Zook family made an offer, the offer was rejected and some employees exercised thier right to withdraw thier labour. Which is fine. They now are free to exercise thier right to obtain new employement. However,by striking and trying to boycott they are infringing on the rights of the store owners.

The scab laborers are directly hurting the workers who remain on the line, by undercutting their negotiating position. Yet the scabs will reap all the benefits if the union wins anyway, because they too will get the higher wages.

I didn't think conservatives believed in freeloading?!


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Blink
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11402

posted 08 January 2006 01:35 PM      Profile for Blink     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by robbie_dee:
Individual negotiation with your employer isn't negotiation at all. It's more like the employer tells what he will give, and you take it. You have no real leverage as an individual lined up against the employer's much stronger economic power. But hey, suit yourself. You have the right to make foolish choices, too.

Not at my job, it's not, and not for lots of other people. I certainly do have leverage. You like my work? You want me to stay? Then best coin up. My "foolish choices" have kept me well-employed.


From: British Columbia | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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Babbler # 195

posted 08 January 2006 01:35 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm thankful we don't have to deal with smallpox anymore. But do I continue to owe something to medicine?

That's a nasty cough you have there.


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Blink
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11402

posted 08 January 2006 01:37 PM      Profile for Blink     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:
In the real world, "negotiating your own terms" with an employer means accepting the employer's terms, unless you are talking about Dad or the Maple Leafs.

When capitalists pool their capital to create stronger entities, workers have to pool their strength. "Bargaining as an individual" is basically begging.


Hey, I live in the real world and I don't beg. I say what money it will take to keep me on the job and I receive it.

ETA: Equivalent jobs in the public sector list a substantially lower wage. So how is collective bargaining benefitting those union members? Unfortunately, it's punishing the best workers and rewarding the worst.

[ 08 January 2006: Message edited by: Blink ]


From: British Columbia | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 195

posted 08 January 2006 01:43 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This thread has gotten too long. Please continue here.

[EDIT - added link to continuation thread].

[ 21 March 2006: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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