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Author Topic: What are you doing for the environment? What could you do, but don't?
Anchoress
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Babbler # 4650

posted 01 March 2005 11:45 PM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
With 'peak oil', Monsanto, depleted uranium, global warming, etc etc etc ad infinitum, I tend to get really down about the environment, feeling that I am not doing enough. I'm probably not.

But here's a thread where we can itemise what we *are* doing, what we could but are not doing, and maybe provide moral support/ideas for decreasing our environmental footprint.

What I am doing:

1. I'm a vegetarian, and I consciously consume foods with less packaging/processing.
2. I don't drive a car.
3. I am very conscious of water consumption. Not to the point of timing myself in the shower, but I waste very little water.
4. I walk everywhere but to one of my two jobs.
5. While I do have appliances in my home, I have a policy of buying good quality, maintenance, and replacement only when appliances are irreparable.
5. On the whole, I buy very little. I am conscious of not buying 'knicknacks' or tchatchkes as gifts or for myself, and I plan on keeping the same furniture until I die. I use the library, only buying books and videos I plan to read or view again.
6. I don't compost, but I use most of my kitchen scraps for my dog's 'BARF' diet.
7. I reuse everything I possibly can, and recycle the rest.
8. I don't use any paper towels, I turn my T-shirts into cleaning rags, I use what I have until it wears out, and I clean my house with tiny amounts of eco-friendly (edible) cleaners.
9. I haven't turned my heat on in the 9 years I've lived here.


What I could do but don't:
1. Conserve electricity by using less light. I live in a huge studio apartment, and it just seems gloomy without a few lights, so I use more light than I need.
2. Wash with cold water. It's a weakness. I have an immature psychological need to wash some things in hot water. Don't know how to get over it.
3. Use eco-friendly dishsoap and laundry soap. I know it exists, I'm just too lazy to find it.

[ 02 March 2005: Message edited by: Anchoress ]


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
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posted 01 March 2005 11:55 PM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just half to ask - your dog's BARF diet? What does that consist of?
From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
brebis noire
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posted 02 March 2005 12:02 AM      Profile for brebis noire     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When I'm not getting depressed for the environment, I compost religiously.
I buy as many things second-hand as possible, including vehicles, clothes, furniture...
I will never again buy a new kitchen appliance/gadget/tool that I don't already have and use.
I send non-compostible food to the barn animals.
I don't buy stuff for my kids' lunches that has packaging that will be thrown away (what is it with those juice boxes? :mad
There's so much that I could still do, but sometimes I get overwhelmed and just don't have the time or the gumption to do it (it's another one of those situations where I feel like it's just me and a few other against the world. The world wins - the world dies.)
I'm horrified more and more every day by the waste we keep creating, it's totally out of hand.

From: Quebec | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Amy
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posted 02 March 2005 12:06 AM      Profile for Amy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ooh! Good idea for a thread.

What I do:
-Walk, bus, and sometimes bike. no driving for me; in my life, in this city, I find it unnecessary (not to mention scary).
-Clean without nasties
-Use a vaccuum cleaner that doesn't take bags
-Keep the heat low and use cold water in the laundry.
-Buy in bulk (to reduce packaging) and/or organic and/or locally produced food (the last two are mainly a cost issue for me though)
-Buy mainly second-hand clothing, and give away what I don't wear to the point of turning into rags.
-Compost. Since I eat a lot of veggies, I can barely imagine how much 'garbage' I would make if I didn't. Coffee grounds and tea leaves go in (from fair-trade, organic stuff) goes in too.

I don't (but could):
-Use rags for cleaning the toilet part of the bathroom (that's what I buy paper towels for)
-Make my own yogurt. That's where most of the plastic in my recycle bin comes from.
-Bake in batches, to reduce power use from on-off-on-off of the oven.
-Carry cloth bags in my back pack for grocery shopping. I always forget.
-Write on both sides of the page-if I do, I can hardly read my writing.
(obviously a lot more could go on this list)

[ 02 March 2005: Message edited by: Amy ]


From: the whole town erupts and/ bursts into flame | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 02 March 2005 12:10 AM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Egalitarian American:
I just half to ask - your dog's BARF diet? What does that consist of?

BARF = bones and raw food. Raw meat, raw fruits and vegetables (and grains, although I don't feed my dog grains), raw bones and I also feed my dog essential oils.


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 02 March 2005 01:37 AM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have to ask how you manage without ever turning your heat on!!??

- I do use cloth bags for groceries; keep them in my car usually so I don't forget often.
- try to avoid getting extra bags while shopping; and use what I have for garbage instead of buying garbage bags
- buy recycled paper towels [and use rags a lot] and recycled toilet paper
- turn off the light when I leave a room [learned from my father who lived through the Depression]
- use lower wattage bulbs where I don't need a bright light
- keep my thermostat quite low, especially at night; and water heater down a bit
- I have no yard and no pets so can't compost or use scraps; but still don't have too much garbage after recycling boxes, etc.
- recycle paper and cardboard, newspapers, cans, milk jugs, glass, pop cans and bottles
- keep scrap paper for notes
- relax and enjoy the odd naughty treat once in a while

Bob Bossin, who has posted here a few times, has an article on his website with plenty of good suggestions: Ten things you can do to save the world [in his NEW! box on the right side]

[ 02 March 2005: Message edited by: Contrarian ]


From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 02 March 2005 02:19 AM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Contrarian:
I have to ask how you manage without ever turning your heat on!!??

:shrugs: I live in a very hot building, I guess. There have only been about four nights in the whole time I've lived here that I've considered turning the heat on cuz it's gotten really chilly, but I didn't want to break my perfect record.

Oh, and I *do* live in Vancouver...


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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posted 02 March 2005 07:47 AM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmm. Good question.
Good:
1. Vegetarian.
2. Electricity consumption- I replaced all the bulbs in my apartment with compact fluorescents, and it seems to be working well, since my hydro bill averages around $16/mo.
3. No car (though that will have to change soon, ironically to improve my chances of finding employment in the environmental field!)
4. I use cold water doing the laundry, and don't use bleach.
5. No paper towels.
6. When grocery shopping, I generally don't take bags unless I'm running low on them (I use grocery bags for garbage).
7. Cigarettes are something I fluctuate on- but for the moment I'm off the stuff.
8. I buy relatively little, and a sizeable chunk of what I do buy is second hand (most of the books I buy, perhaps half of the clothes, a number of computer parts, and a lot of my household supplies).
9. I do whatever cleaning is needed using relatively clean cleaners (vinegar, baking soda, ammonia, etc).
10. I'm pretty good about recycling.
11. I make a half-assed effort to buy local products (not nearly good enough though).
12. I don't use products like Polysporin, which are a likely contributor to the "superbug" phenomenon.
Bad:
1. I probably use too much water.
2. I don't compost. I should get a vermicomposter, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
3. I tend to buy things on the cheap, which often means buying things I shouldn't (overpackaged, not organic, not local, etc). I'm far less diligent in avoiding GMOs, for instance, than I probably should be.
There's probably many other bad things that I do that I haven't thought of, too.

From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Seiltänzer
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posted 02 March 2005 08:30 AM      Profile for Seiltänzer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Can someone elaborate on the vegetarian claim. Maybe I'm missing something. If, for example, I raise my own chickens, killing and eating them myself, that can't be bad for the environment. Or do some consider killing animals as bad for the environment, or is it having to turn on the oven to cook them?
From: UK (né Toronto) | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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posted 02 March 2005 08:38 AM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The problem with meat (or, at least, with eating large amounts of it) is that it takes far more cropland to raise animals for food than it would to feed people on those crops directly. A vegetarian or mostly vegetarian diet thus makes much more efficient use of land and crop inputs than a meat-heavy diet does.
From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Seiltänzer
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posted 02 March 2005 08:42 AM      Profile for Seiltänzer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Okay. So as the population keeps growing more cropland is needed to raise animals, thus destroying natural habitat to make room. I suppose, however, a stable population size could strike a balance between cropland and natural habitat.
From: UK (né Toronto) | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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posted 02 March 2005 08:47 AM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah. Of course, a continually growing population will encroach further on natural habitat regardless, but it will happen a lot faster if that population raises a lot of meat.

Incidentally, wild game is really not much of an issue, from an environmentalist's point of view, as long as it's not over-exploited. It's commercial production of meat that's the problem.


From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 02 March 2005 08:48 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Probably not germane to this thread, but what the hey. I drove through Virginia and West Virginia a few years ago, and saw (but could smell them first) these enormous chicken factories. Basically just barns, but with huge numbers of chickens inside. They never see the light of day, are never allowed to roam outside. Ugh. It's a horrible industry. Chicken concentration camps, basically. Support farmers who can guarantee their eggs come from free-ranging chickens. And chickens organically fed.

[ 02 March 2005: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 02 March 2005 08:58 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think I sin most with the cleansers and the hot water. I admire vinegar and baking soda, really I do, but there are some things I think they just can't do well enough. I think the hot-water fetish comes from Mother: when we were little, she trained us to wash dishes in ever-hotter water; I now have extremely high tolerance for pretty hot water; it's almost like having a sweet tooth, I fear.

But I do the laundry cold, buy the long-life bulbs, keep heat down (good training years ago living in Britain, before central heating), consume very little overall, don't drive, etc. And I'm really enthusiastic about Toronto's recycling system now. The green box means I have almost no garbage -- just plastic and animal fur.

I really hate the overpackaging. Where is it that shoppers are allowed to stand at the register and remove all the wrapping, leaving it behind for the store to cope with? I would support such an initiative. It would force the retailers to send the pressure back in the right direction, to producers.

One problem with not driving: it is very hard to schlep some things, heavy things (like cat supplies, eg). That tempts me to go for a lot of delivered services -- Grocery Gateway, eg, in its much diminished form, especially in winter.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jumble
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Babbler # 7453

posted 02 March 2005 06:10 PM      Profile for Jumble     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
1- I make compost from early spring to late autumn ( I have 2 compost bins)
2- In winter I use suitable table scraps to feed the birds (I chop, grind and mix them)
3- I recycle 75% of the rest of my garbage
4- I re-use plastic bags as garbage pail liners
4- I eat very little meat
5- I keep the thermostat low (10-12C at night & at about 17C when I'm up and about (if I'm cold, I put on a sweater) unless I have visitors of course
6- I have regular maintenance done on my house's oil furnace (yearly in the fall)
7- I shovel snow by hand
8- I drive a compact car (without air-conditioning)
9- I walk as much as I can
10- I keep the shades drawn in my house on really hot muggy days in the summer & open all the windows at night to cool down the house.
11- I grow some of my own vegetables (last year: tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, winter squash, yellow and green beans, snowpeas & lettuce + asparagus)
12- My home is pesticide-free: I pull weeds out by hand & keep pests at bay through natural methods
10- I harvest seeds
11- I plant/have planted trees, shrubs and flowers on my property & look for plants that attract birds, butterflies and useful insects
11- I try to buy some organic food and products
12- I wash my car by hand with a bucket full of soapy water & rinse it with a bucket full of clear water
13- I do my laundy in cold water
14- I buy equitable coffee at work

That's about it I think.

I could be doing a lot more:

1- Carry my groceries in a re-usable cloth bag
2- Buy more organic food & products (encourage small "local" organic farms)
3- Collect rain water to water my garden
4- Replace more lawn with other groundcovers besides grass
5- Plant more draught-resistant plants
6- Hang my laundry outside to dry
7- Replace my gas-powered lawnmower with a manual "push" model or with one that runs on a rechargeable battery
8- Install a solar panel (maybe a small one someday)
9- Bring my own cup to fill with that equitable coffee that I buy at work instead of using a disposable foam cup
10- Always use a cloth rag instead of paper towels

and on...


From: Gatineau (Québec) | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
K Connor
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Babbler # 8236

posted 02 March 2005 10:16 PM      Profile for K Connor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it'll be faster if I work off of Jumble's lists. Our do's and don'ts are the same except:

1. We compost all year round.
2. We have a cat so feeding the birds would be dirty pool!
3. No meat except for seafood (lots-my wife is Japanese).
4. Thermostat 15C at night (whole house)and during day (most of house), 20C in office (during day) and in whole house in evening
5. Electric heating only.
6. We don't own a car, but do belong to a car-sharing company, which we use sporadically. Metro station within 5 minutes walk.
7. I bike whenever possible, spring to fall.
8. Only starting to replace lawn with garden, so only grew tomatoes, okra, snow peas, and various Asian greens this year.
9. We have rain barrels to collect rain water for lawn and flowers.
10. Use a reel mower (push power).
11. We dry clothes on clothesline when feasible.
12. Make leaf mold from the oodles of leaves that fall every autumn.
13. Planning on using cloth diapers most of the time with imminent arrival.

On the downside:
1. We've used various noxious substances in fixing-up old home (bleach to kill mold, wood stain, paint, etc.) without making much effort to seek out eco-friendly products.
2. Most of our appliances are old and so probably not very energy efficient.
3. Unmotivated to track down and block every crack through which air is entering (which if done, necessitates installing an HVAC system to get sufficient air exchange).
4. Unwilling to slap down the serious cash to go to geothermal heating (cuts energy use for heating [and air conditioning, if one has it, we don't] by 2/3's on average).
Plus a bunch of other stuff that my self-regard is keeping me from remembering, no doubt.


From: Montreal | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
K Connor
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Babbler # 8236

posted 02 March 2005 10:37 PM      Profile for K Connor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Now a question: I thought that Toronto's green box system accepted animal waste (kitty litter). Is this false? If it's true, then why wouldn't it take animal fur?

As for environmental reasons for vegetarianism, stable population size alone wouldn't by itself necessarily be enough to mean a balance between cropland for meat production and natural habitat. Imagine a stable population of, say, 9 billion people all eating as much meat as the average Canadian. I'm guessing this is unsustainable even if all land is converted to crop production, so unless there's some precipitous population decline, meat consumption would have to decline.


From: Montreal | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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Babbler # 4668

posted 02 March 2005 10:53 PM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by K Connor:
Now a question: I thought that Toronto's green box system accepted animal waste (kitty litter). Is this false? If it's true, then why wouldn't it take animal fur?


My guess is that fur takes too long to degrade. Cat turds will degrade quite nicely.

From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
ReeferMadness
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Babbler # 2743

posted 03 March 2005 01:30 AM      Profile for ReeferMadness     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow! I thought I was reasonably environmentally friendly but you are all incredible.

quote:
With 'peak oil', Monsanto, depleted uranium, global warming, etc etc etc ad infinitum, I tend to get really down about the environment, feeling that I am not doing enough. I'm probably not.

You're kidding me, right? You are, like, a poster child for the environment.

What I do:
1. I try to buy as little stuff as I can
2. I look for things that are likely to last a long time.
3. I did try fluorescent bulbs but I don't like the light.
4. I'm meticulous about recycling what I can.
5. I wear clothing until it's physically worn out, not until it goes out of style.
6. I live close enough to work so I can walk or have short bus ride.
7. I do have a car but I only drive a little.
8. I try to instil environmental values in my children.
9. Four of us live in a small condo (I do turn on the heat, though ).
10. Rechargeable batteries.
11. Wash clothes in cold water.

What I could do better
1. Dump the car (I don't know how you all do it, though)
2. Buy fewer packaged foods.
3. Shorter showers (I tend to think a lot in the shower and I lose track of time).
4. Use eco-friendly cleaners.
5. Use reusable diapers (hangs head in shame).

[ 03 March 2005: Message edited by: ReeferMadness ]


From: Way out there | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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Babbler # 4650

posted 03 March 2005 03:19 AM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ReeferMadness:
Wow! I thought I was reasonably environmentally friendly but you are all incredible.

You're kidding me, right? You are, like, a poster child for the environment.


Are you being serious RM, or taking the piss?


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
ReeferMadness
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Babbler # 2743

posted 03 March 2005 07:16 AM      Profile for ReeferMadness     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Are you being serious RM, or taking the piss?

Go easy on me. I'm culturally illiterate so I had to look that expression up on urban dictionary.

I'm totally serious, though. I don't know how all of you get along without a vehicle. I mean I can understand how you might do it but I'm so stuck for time as it is, I couldn't imagine having to always rely on public transit or a taxi to get me where I need to be. And I don't know of anyone with the dedication to go without heat, even here on the wet coast. Even for this community, I think that most of the people posting here are ahead of the curve.

edited to add:
Oh, but according to Bob Bossin, it's not the end of the world that I use disposable diapers.

quote:
10. Don't sweat the small stuff
It is important to keep perspective. Whether or not we buy a second car makes a difference; washing out plastic grocery bags does not.
The Union of Concerned Scientists has a handy rule-of-
thumb: ask yourself, "How big is it?" Buying an energy-efficient
fridge matters a lot more than removing the light-bulb inside it.
Recycling a stack of newspapers is a must; making sure every grocery bill hits the blue box is not.
Another good test is to ask, "With this purchase, am I supporting a worthy venture?" Driving a fuel-efficient car, buying organic produce or choosing recycled, non-chlorine-bleached toilet paper is a vote that will be tallied by the manufacturer, the distributor, the retailer and the market.
On the other hand, here are some things not to worry about:

*
Running the water while you brush your teeth. We shouldn't, it is true, but the loss is inconsequential compared to the gallons of water we waste by watering the lawn inefficiently.
*
Cloth versus disposable diapers. The debate once raged, but the results are in - and it is a tie. Disposables do build up in the landfill, but their cloth rivals are washed again and again with hot water, detergent and even chlorine bleach. Use the diapers that work for you. (And avoid chlorine like the toxic chemical it is.)
*
Aerosol sprays and styrofoam containers. The ozone-depleting substances have long been removed - although some people are now worried about the chemicals that have replaced them.
*
Paper vs. plastic grocery bags. The planet isn't going to notice. Use what is convenient.


[ 03 March 2005: Message edited by: ReeferMadness ]


From: Way out there | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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Babbler # 4668

posted 03 March 2005 08:17 AM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ReeferMadness:

I'm totally serious, though. I don't know how all of you get along without a vehicle. I mean I can understand how you might do it but I'm so stuck for time as it is, I couldn't imagine having to always rely on public transit or a taxi to get me where I need to be.


It all depends where you live and what you need to do. I live near downtown Kitchener, so most things I'm likely to need are readily within reach even with our mediocre transit system. Where it becomes a problem is if I want to transport large objects- I'm pretty much SOL as regards that. Unfortunately, at times that has forcd me to compromise in terms of purchasing items- there's plenty of used furniture, but since it's already assembled it's almost impossible to transport without imposing on friends, so I've often bought kits at Zellers and brought them home by bus. All other things being equal, it's better from an environmental perspective to buy used, but that's one of the tradeoffs, I guess.

As I mentioned above, this is likely to have to come to an end once I am working, given that most entry level jobs involve driving out to worksites with a bunch of equipment.

quote:

And I don't know of anyone with the dedication to go without heat, even here on the wet coast. Even for this community, I think that most of the people posting here are ahead of the curve.


I think we have an answer here:
quote:
Originally posted by Anchoress:

:shrugs: I live in a very hot building, I guess. There have only been about four nights in the whole time I've lived here that I've considered turning the heat on cuz it's gotten really chilly, but I didn't want to break my perfect record.


So in other words, she's lucky. So am I actually, since I live in a building with radiator heat which I don't have to pay for (there's an electric heater in the front room, which is poorly insulated and has no radiators, but I don't use it; I just don't use that room much in the winter).

From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 03 March 2005 12:57 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What I do:

1. Take the bus and skytrain everywhere, or walk someplace if I need to go and it's not far.
2. Eat relatively little meat, biasing my diet in favor of chicken, cheeses, milk products and some vegetables.
3. Recycle what I can, and when I use paper at uni, I dump it in the recycling bin if I don't need it.
4. I never, ever, throw away a book. If I must get rid of it, I give it away or sell it.
5. Take short showers (or try to!)

What I don't do:

1. Live in an energy-efficient apartment. I live in the bottom level of an old house, and for some damn reason the Hydro bills are ridiculous, running about $75 a month when the baseboard heating -isn't- on. I plam on remedying this situation later this year, since I want to move into an apartment building so as to have five of six faces insulated, cutting heating costs way down.
2. Sell my car, which is currently doing a great impression of a pavement ornament.
3. Eat out less. I'm a lousy cook. (Psst, don't tell the Gay Licencing Board. They'll take away my rainbow licence )


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
shaolin
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posted 03 March 2005 01:00 PM      Profile for shaolin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Can someone elaborate on the vegetarian claim. Maybe I'm missing something. If, for example, I raise my own chickens, killing and eating them myself, that can't be bad for the environment. Or do some consider killing animals as bad for the environment, or is it having to turn on the oven to cook them?

Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that. These stats come from Canada Earthsave and are getting old now, but you'll get the idea.

* Fossil fuels needed to produce a meat-centered diet vs. a meat-free diet: 50 times more
*Percentage of US topsoil lost to date: 75%
*Percentage of loss directly related to livestock raising: 85%
*Number of acres of US forest cleared for crop-land to produce meat-centered diet: 260 million
*Amount of meat US imports annually from Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatamala, Honduras and Panama: 200,000,000 pounds
*Average per capita meat consumption in Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatamala, Honduras and Panama: less than eaten by average US housecat
* Area of tropical rainforest consumed in ever quarter-pound hamburger; 55 sq. ft.
* Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical rainforests for meat grazing and other uses: 1000 per year
* User of ore than half of all water used for all purposes in the US: livestock production
* Amound of water used in production of the average cow: sufficient to float a destroyer
* Gallons to produce a pound of wheat: 25
* Gallons to produce a pound of meat: 2500
* Cost of common hamburger if water used by meat industry wasn't subsidized by US taxpayer: $35/lb.
* Years the world's known oil reserves would last if every human ate a meat-centered diet: 13
Years they would last if human beings no longer ate meat: 260
* Percentage of fossil fuel energy returned as food energy by most efficient factory farming of meat: 34.5%
Percentage returned from least efficient plant food: 328%
* Percentage of raw materials consumed by US to produce present meat-centered diet: 33%
* Percentage of pesticide residues in the US diet supplied by grains: 1%
* Percentage of pesticide residues in the US diet supplied by vegetables: 6%
* Percentage of pesticide residues in the US diet supplied by dairy products: 23%
* Percentage...supplied by meat: 55%
* Pesticide contamination of breast milk from meat eating mothers vs. non-meat eating: 35 times higher


From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 03 March 2005 01:20 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is some land that can feed animals, but is not suitable for crops; that is, it can grow grass but not wheat. Cities tend to be founded in fertile areas and then urban sprawl destroys the good farmland around the city. How much cropland is given up to growing tobacco, coffee, opium and other unecessary non-food crops?
From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Amy
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posted 03 March 2005 01:20 PM      Profile for Amy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Those figures have little no no relevance to raising chickens in ones backyard-space that would likely be grass or some such thing anyway.

Obviously the goal is to work away from factory farming, but IMO, that should include back yard chicken coops, in part because it reduces garbage, by using compost for chickenfeed and whatnot.


From: the whole town erupts and/ bursts into flame | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
shaolin
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posted 03 March 2005 05:27 PM      Profile for shaolin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm aware that the stats have little to do with raising chickens in your backyard but I think they shed a lot of light on why a vegetarian would claim to be doing something for the environment. You're right, it would be great to move away from factory farming but this is still where the method being used to produce the vast majority of meat.
From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Blue Collar
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posted 03 March 2005 05:48 PM      Profile for Blue Collar     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am hoping to soon buy some farm land and build an eco house, utilizing solar and wind power along with geo thermal heating and cooling.

Going to be exspensive though.


From: Ontario | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jumble
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posted 03 March 2005 08:01 PM      Profile for Jumble     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I am hoping to soon buy some farm land and build an eco house, utilizing solar and wind power along with geo thermal heating and cooling.

Wow! If or rather when you start doing that Blue Collar, it would be really neat if you could set up a Web site to show your progress in photos (and maybe even show a breakdown of costs) as you build your house. It would be really useful for others wishing to do the same, even if some of us could only dream to do something similar on a much much smaller scale.


From: Gatineau (Québec) | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Blue Collar
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posted 03 March 2005 10:16 PM      Profile for Blue Collar     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually my real dream would be to be able to do something like this on a scale large enough to help the homeless or at least provide better accomodation for the less fortunate in our society.

This where I get torn do invest in enviromentally friendly housing that helps me or try to invest into affordable housing for many. But I sure this idea takes away from this thread.


From: Ontario | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 03 March 2005 10:37 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
If you love to garden (or if you want to learn how!) and you care about ecological diversity and sustainability, food safety, urban agriculture, pesticide use, and the way we humans treat the planet, then My Green Garden is for you. At our retail store in London Ontario (and by mail order) we offer good stuff for life* in the garden.

*butterflies, birds and bees, worms, the microherd, pets, children, and YOU.


http://www.mygreengarden.ca/


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bernard W
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posted 04 March 2005 12:06 AM      Profile for Bernard W        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You guys are truly amazing, but this one really floored me:

quote:
I haven't turned my heat on in the 9 years I've lived here.

You live in Canada, no? [Edit - OK I've read your reply. You can probably do that in Vancouver, but not here! Around Christmas we had -44 and my truck's windshield split in 2...]

I try to do my share too, but have ways to go.

1. I now live in the country, and drive much less.
2. We heat the place on wood, whenever possible (eletric otherwise). I cut my own wood, and sell some too.
3. We compost, recycle or burn all we can. We hardly ever take anything to the landfill.
4. We grow fresh food in the garden (but the rabbits and groundhogs get more of it than us).
5. Wash with cold water.
6. No air conditioning, just fans
7. Got rid of the outboard and snowmobile.

Now for negative...
1. Drive a pickup.
2. Eat meat. Love meat (maybe I should hunt, after reading how large footprint farmed meat has)
3. Drive an ATV (use it to get the firewood)
4. Worse: operate 2-stroke chainsaw and cut trees. But they grow back.

[ 04 March 2005: Message edited by: Bernard W ]


From: Algonquin Park, Ontario | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Raos
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posted 04 March 2005 02:16 AM      Profile for Raos     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow, everybody around here does do a heck of a lot.

What do I do?
1. Rarely enter a motor vehicle. When I do, it's usually the bus or the LRT. I bike everywhere, year-round.
2. Compost and recycle everything possible. My mother started doing both when I was young, but now I'm a zealot for making sure everything that can be kept from the landfill is.
3. Roped my mother into buying a high-efficiency furnace instead of a mid-efficiency when the old clunker in this house kicked it.
4. Roped my mother into other more efficient things like compact fluorescent light bulbs, and a low water usage toilet.
5. I use very little paper for school, as I try to keep everything electronically, instead of printing off pages and pages of notes a day.
6. I definately use clothing until it can no longer be used, and then reuse them as rags.

What more can I do?
1. Wash with cold water. I don't know why the thought never occured to me before, but it's kind of a no-hassle no-brainer. From this point on I shall start doing such.
2. Eating less processed foods, and buy more locally. I don't think I'm really going to manage this until I move out and do my own shopping, but I definately plan to when I do.
3. Garden. I'd really love to, but I have no time for it, and a rather substantial lack of green in my thumb.
4. Take shorter showers. I don't know how anybody manages to take short showers, I can never get out within 10 minutes.

As far as building dream homes is concerned, eventually I'd like to build a crazy efficient house inside the city. Just see how far I could take as many concepts as I possibly can on a lot inside the city. Solar panels, a greenhouse, water storage to water the greenhouse with rainwater, solar heating. Pretty much do everything I possibly can to make a house inside the city as self-sustaining as possible.


From: Sweet home Alaberta | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 04 March 2005 03:06 AM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dr Conway: Have you considered that a grow op might be stealing hydro??

I realised something else I do: I DON'T subscribe to any newspapers.

One of the things that most discourages me is that because textiles, furniture, manufactured products etc are so relatively cheap, we waste so much usable stuff because it is so difficult - or *relatively* expensive - to get it to the people who could use it. I think so often of how wonderful it would be if we could organise a way to collect unwanted stuff, like what I used to see businesses leave in vacated offices when I worked for a commercial property management company; but just storing it would be too expensive. It also gets me down how much re-usable residential construction/reno/demolition material goes to waste.


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Amy
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posted 04 March 2005 03:46 AM      Profile for Amy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One thing I love about my neighborhood (and actually, most of the city is in on this I think) is the "free stuff" exchange that takes place at night. Anything you don't want but don't think is garbage and don't want to deal with, just put in at the end of your driveway, or near the sidewalk if you're in a building, and it'll be gone within 24 hours. I've gotten (rid of) several pieces of furniture that way, plenty of clothes and old electronics, too.

The most recent time though, my landlords, who live upstairs, didn't get that free stuff can also be 'fixable stuff'. They took our old chair and put it in the garbage.


From: the whole town erupts and/ bursts into flame | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 04 March 2005 08:39 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, it's the same way in my building. Put stuff in the back entrance which leads to the recycle and garbage bins with a "free to a good home" sign on it, and they're gone within hours.

I'm thinking about doing that with my dishwasher and microwave.

(Shut up, Tommy_Paine. )


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Igor the Miserable
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posted 09 March 2005 11:39 AM      Profile for Igor the Miserable   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you want to get rid of clutter, consider joining your local Freecycle group (basically a community bulletin board to give away items). For more on how it works, here's a link to an article from the Toronto Star:

http://freecycle.org/archives/000473.php


From: STRIKE | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 09 March 2005 11:54 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, that sounds great - Melsky's been telling me about that for a while. But I'm too lazy - I finally just stuck my dishwasher in the back entrance last night. As I was taking it down, a woman on the elevator asked me if I was getting rid of anything else. As it turned out she needed a microwave oven. Bonus. I brought it down and gave it to her. I suppose I could've gotten $20 for it, but hey. What goes around comes around - I've gotten lots of free stuff over the years from people giving it away. I can pay into the karma account once in a while.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 09 March 2005 12:44 PM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow Freecycle, that's cool. I went to their website and it was a little difficult to find their membership listings. Turns out they do it through Yahoo!Groups, and here's the link to all the Canadian groups:

http://freecycle.org/display.php?region=Canada


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
ian gregson
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posted 09 March 2005 01:15 PM      Profile for ian gregson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I do many of the things listed here, however you neglect to mention that supporting a political party that truly has the environment at the core of its values.

There is only one political party in this country and indeed the throughout the world that has the environment at the core of its values and that is the Green Party.

So the next time you are shopping with cloth bags, washing with cold water or recycling your plastic, think about a party that supports your values. VOTE GREEN next time.


From: Republic of East Van | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 09 March 2005 02:22 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Missed this earlier, somehow...

What I/we do:

Compost everything compostable. When we run out of space in the composter in the winter, we start a heap in the garden.

We bought energy-efficient appliances where we've upgraded them, and donated the old ones to Habitat for Humanity. I have a front-loading washing machine that uses a lot less energy AND water.

Keep the thermostat turned down most of the time, and wear sweaters and slippers in the winter.

Buy clothes second-hand, and sell or donate clothes we no longer wear. Worn out stuff is used for rags.

We recently signed up for recycling pick-up, so we don't have an excuse not to recycle.

Live in a neighborhood where we can walk to most services, like the grocery store, organic market, bakery, butcher, hardware store, etc.

Buy very little processed food, and try to stick to stuff that comes in recyclable containers.

Grow most of our veggies in a community garden and an extra small plot out back. We also have an apple tree, raspberries and gooseberries in the yard.

Use cloth bags for groceries.

Insulated the basement of our house so we use less heat.

Have only one vehicle for the family, a relatively fuel-efficient minivan, which we try not to drive too much.

Buy organic foods, and buy meat direct from local farmers.

Keep a deep freeze out in the garage. It doesn't have to work very hard for about half the year.

Clean with vinegar, baking soda and bleach. I do use dish soap or an oil soap on the floors, but that's the only other cleaner I buy.

Things we don't do:

I have a thing for cleaning with hot water. It's a lot more effective.

Live in a more energy-efficient house. This house is over 90 years old, and some of it is poorly insulated. We're upgrading where we can, as we can afford it, but it's never going to be an entirely energy-efficient home.

We eat vegetarian dinners at least twice a week, but we still eat meat.

I use a lot of paper in the office. I try not to, but can't quite get away from it. Working on that.

I have a dishwasher, and I run it once or twice a day.

I sometimes forget to turn off all the office machines at the end of the day.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Amy
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posted 09 March 2005 04:23 PM      Profile for Amy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I guess this is more of a thing for my living environment, but lately my boyfriend and I have been looking into, and buying on occasion, plants that are good at removing toxins and other yucky things from the air. His mum found this book put out by NASA that used 3 indeces to classify houseplants by effectiveness in air-purification, and the ones she chose have done a great job getting rid of paint fumes so far.
From: the whole town erupts and/ bursts into flame | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ethical Redneck
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posted 09 March 2005 05:33 PM      Profile for Ethical Redneck     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmmm...good question. I know I do a bit, but this is the first time I have actually taken a personal survey.

1. We're organic gardeners at my place; we recycle and compost everything we can and eat fresh veggies, free range chicken and eggs (got our own small patch) and organic milk (from the place down the street year-round).

2. I got myself elected as my union's rep to the BC Environmental Mining Council, where we study ways to promote more ecologically sustainable way of extracting and using natural resources like clean coal project, implementing Kyoto protocols, more value-added production, etc.).

3. I'm also on our local's environment committee, which works with our health and safety committee, to push the bosses to better clean up our act (move away from acidic chemical use, restoration/reclamation of closed veins and pits, etc.).

4. My wife is active with our local conservation society, which lobbies for implementation of the former NDP government's forest practices standards and tries to protect our back-country wilderness from damaging commercial tourism activities, in addition to pushing to keep our community from becoming another long-distance garbage dump for lower mainland waste.

5. As a former director at our local co-op store, I lobbied for ethical purchasing and smart consumer guidelines for our products, including ecologically friendly, certified organic and locally made stuff (wife is purchasing coordinator there).

What more could I do? I suppose there's lots.

One thing is I'm trying to find out if there is hybrid engine technology available for my truck yet.

I'm also interested, but don't know that much about yet, in promoting the local use of bio-diesel (we got lots of commercial trucking vehicles around here).

Finally, I would like to investigate the use of solar and wind generation power here. The NDP government had been pushing BC Hydro to develop some of this technology in our parts here. But the Liberals dropped the plan.


From: Deep in the Rockies | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 09 March 2005 06:29 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Umph. I feel like a bad person.

What I do:
1. Very little.
(well, I don't buy all that much stuff and I use what I do buy until it falls apart--but that's more from being miserly than green)

What I don't do:
1. Almost everything.


Kudos to you guys, totally. I will give some thought to attempting reform.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 09 March 2005 10:40 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey, I just thought of something else -- we don't use chemical herbicides or pesticides in our yard or garden, and we replaced our front lawn with clover last year.
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
uma77
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posted 14 March 2005 01:25 PM      Profile for uma77     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would love to find out which plants are more effective at cleaning the air- where could one find that NASA information?
We try to do the best by the environment whenever possible, but I find that sometimes simple economics dictates which measures I take. For example, I have a cat, and when faced with the expense of better litter for the environment (wheat, for example, which supposedly degrades quickly and you can use less) I have to stick with the regular, unscented, non-clumping variety. I hate to think how much space this takes up in the big ol' landfill.
I think cost is an issue for many people when it comes to the environment. Thankfully, buying less, composting, thrift shopping, etc. is a great way to spend less money.
Anyone know of any eco-friendly places in Windsor, Ontario? I try to use only environmentally safe cleaning products, but again, I find myself spending more money on things such as detergent than I would like to.
Great thread.

From: Windsor, ON, Canada | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 14 March 2005 02:31 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some houseplants are supposed to be good at cleaning the air of various noxious substances; spiderplants, ivy, etc.

If you google you will find all sorts of gardening and plant sites enthusiastically talking about the NASA study, though I did not see the actual study, done in the 1980s. Some of them list which plants work for what.

I found one apparently scientific websoite that was less impressed, stating that houseplants did not clean a "significant portion" of the air under normal conditions. Link here That site has a lot of information about air quality but it seems more focussed on technology; air cleaners, etc.

Here is a site (Link here) with a bunch of links to reviews of phytoremediation; using plants to clean up, not just air, but toxic waste sites. There is some talk about genetic modification of plants for that purpose, which is a concern, though possibly it could be useful in this case.


From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
windymustang
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posted 14 March 2005 02:50 PM      Profile for windymustang     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What we do:
Insulated our 100 year old house
Drive very little, usually walking most places. You need a vehicle to live in the rurals, or you become extremely isolated.
Going to buy more fuel efficient vehicle
Organic garden inside and out
Have planted 17 trees and shrubs on our property
Have converted a great deal of lawn to low maintance ground cover
Only use phosphate free detergent
Wash in cold water
Hang all wash from spring to fall
Use only simple cleansers and rags (occassional use of paper towels)
Buy very few items with excess packaging
Carry grocery bags in my pockets
Use dishwasher only every 2-3 days, washing large items by hand
Replaced furnaces,water heaters (ours and tennant's), most appliances with energy efficient ones.
Give away old appliances, clothes, housewares and anything else not used regularly
Keep heat lower at night, and cool in day
Use blinds in summer to keep cool
Recycle everything possible
Not big consumers
Reuse everything possible, from plastic containers to paper

posted by amy

quote:
Those figures have little no no relevance to raising chickens in ones backyard-space that would likely be grass or some such thing anyway.
Obviously the goal is to work away from factory farming, but IMO, that should include back yard chicken coops, in part because it reduces garbage, by using compost for chickenfeed and whatnot.

Amy, have you ever raised chickens? I have been involved in many types of farming, and would rather have my fingernails pulled out than raise chickens again. They are dirty, mean, STINKY, mean birds. Have you ever plucked and cleaned one.

I agree that farm range chickens are the answer, but if you've never done it, maybe you should reconsider your post.
posted by Michelle

quote:
I think so often of how wonderful it would be if we could organise a way to collect unwanted stuff, like what I used to see businesses leave in vacated offices

Call Goodwill or Diabetes Assoc. Both will pick up items, usually within a short time.

From: from the locker of Mad Mary Flint | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
beibhnn
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posted 14 March 2005 03:47 PM      Profile for beibhnn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ian gregson:

There is only one political party in this country and indeed the throughout the world that has the environment at the core of its values and that is the Green Party.

Oh barf. Too bad major environmental activist organizations keep pointing out that NDP policy is consistently better than that of the federal Green party. From what I know of the BC Greens, I suspect the same poorly developed policy problem applies to them as well.

And now back to our regularly scheduled discussion of realistic and effective methods of reducing our collective footprint on the earth...


From: in exile | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 14 March 2005 05:50 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What I do:
1. Recycle everything that can be recycled in our city. Feel bad about the rest.
2. I haven't owned a car in 8 years. I walk or cycle to work, and walk to grocery stores. We are in the car co-op, so we do drive on occasion, but it is minimal.
3. Buy all our groceries at local, small operator grocers. WHen possible, organic. We are lucky enough to live within blocks of several of these stores - which leads me to:
4. Live somewhere I can walk/cycle to the store/restaurant/work whenever I please. We quite consciously paid more for our home so we could do just that, and not have to own a car.
5. Clean with clean cleaning stuff - this one is basic, since it is cheapest and seems to work just fine.
6. Turn off the lights as much as possible.
7. Live in a dense area, in a dense building (condos).

Don't do:
1. Veggie - we don't eat much meat, but I'm just not willing to give it up entirely. In my defense, much of the meat I do eat comes from my parent's farm (organic) or is organic from the store.
2. Give up fish. Having worked in fisheries for years, I know that we are on the brink of killing off the oceans. Eating fish, though healthy, is massively destructive - none of us should do it - or at least we should (as a planet) take a 10 year break from fish. But I love fish. I even enjoy fishing (eep)
3. Fly. My family are spread across the world, and I love to travel. Unfortunately, planes are very destructive, climatewise.
4. Compost - this one is temporary - our worms all died and we haven't had the time to replace them yet (in our defense, we have a 15 day old baby in the house).


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 14 March 2005 06:17 PM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by windymustang:
Call Goodwill or Diabetes Assoc. Both will pick up items, usually within a short time.

Actually I posted that, but Goodwill and Diabetes are *not* good suggestions in these cases, because the volume of office equipment is too great.


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Amy
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posted 14 March 2005 08:19 PM      Profile for Amy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I haven't raised chickens because I've never lived in a place of my own (well, rented by me) for long enough to make that feasible, but that doesn't mean I don't know what it entails. I have several life-long friends who raise chickens and although it's not the same as actually 'owning' them, I do think I have a fair impression of what it is like. That being said, I would only have chickens for eggs, so much of the mess is reduced right there; free range chicken is easy to come by in these parts, and in Victoria you can't have roosters in residential neighborhoods anyway.

I intend to say that all/most/more people in the city should have chickens to slaughter I just meant that if more people raised hens, there would be a number of benefits including: less garbage and/or recyclables in the form of egg cartons, less of the problems associated with factory farming of 'egg chickens', and just plain better eggs. Even if the first two weren't there, I am somewhat a foodie and so would probably raise hens for eggs no matter.


From: the whole town erupts and/ bursts into flame | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 14 March 2005 09:16 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For the environment. do this poll:

http://webpoll.bowesnet.com/indiv/052/webpoll.html


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
rabble-rouser
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posted 14 March 2005 10:52 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow. 32% said no pesticides, 42% thought they were just fine.
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 14 March 2005 10:53 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is now up to 39-42. Vote now! Vote often!
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
person
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posted 15 March 2005 12:15 AM      Profile for person     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ian gregson:
I do many of the things listed here, however you neglect to mention that supporting a political party that truly has the environment at the core of its values.

There is only one political party in this country and indeed the throughout the world that has the environment at the core of its values and that is the Green Party.

So the next time you are shopping with cloth bags, washing with cold water or recycling your plastic, think about a party that supports your values. VOTE GREEN next time.



oh, fuck off.


From: www.resist.ca | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
windymustang
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posted 15 March 2005 12:39 AM      Profile for windymustang     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
amy
quote:
...I intend to say that all/most/more people in the city should have chickens to slaughter I just meant ...

I wouldn't want to live in that neighbourhood

From: from the locker of Mad Mary Flint | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Amy
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posted 15 March 2005 01:23 AM      Profile for Amy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Uh, it was a typo. I meant "I didn't intend to say".

[ 15 March 2005: Message edited by: Amy ]

[ 15 March 2005: Message edited by: Amy ]


From: the whole town erupts and/ bursts into flame | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
ian gregson
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posted 15 March 2005 03:39 AM      Profile for ian gregson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
that's not very nice - are you suffering from post political trauma syndrome ?

quote:
Originally posted by person:


oh, fuck off.



From: Republic of East Van | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 15 March 2005 08:39 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WingNut:
For the environment. do this poll:

http://webpoll.bowesnet.com/indiv/052/webpoll.html


We are now winning. Keep voting!


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 18 March 2005 02:24 AM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Amy, I think it would be awesome if cities and townships rescinded the rules forbidding people from keeping farm animals on their property. Yes, it might be a little bit ripe for neighbours (I'm thinking the 'creme de la creme' in Shaughnessy in Vancouver lol), but it would be so useful for micro-farming, helping city folk to be self-sufficient in food production, etc. My dad is a rabid eco-whatever (don't want to say 'fascist', but he's pretty extreme), and in his little east van back yard he's able to grow almost all of what he needs to feed himself, except for a little meat.

I also think of the story my old bosses told - they're all old Italian guys who came to Canada in the early 'sixties - about how they had a goat and a couple of chickens at their house in East Van, and how they made artisan (at least we'd call it artisan - they'd call it home-made) cheeses etc from the goat's milk. Of course that would be illegal now, but I guess once all the oil is gone we'll go back to it.

The only problem (besides the smell) is that there *are* serious problems with the possibility of livestock-to-human virus transfer, a constant concern when people and livestock live closely - especially chickens and swine.


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
PereUbu
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posted 18 March 2005 04:41 AM      Profile for PereUbu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Quoting "Anchoress":

quote:
Amy, I think it would be awesome if cities and townships rescinded the rules forbidding people from keeping farm animals on their property.

Mmm, yes, "awesome" would be a word for it. Uh, you've never been on a farm, have you? Trust me, its very quaint and romantic!

quote:
but it would be so useful for micro-farming, helping city folk to be self-sufficient in food production, etc.

Well, if you're going to be "self-sufficient", why stop at just food production? Why not go all the way and be "self-sufficient" with everything else -- like steel production, heavy industry, or even chemical refining and dental surgery?

Why should we be held hostage by shifty foreigners in Korea or Japan, just because we want, say, a DVD player? I'll build my own, thank you! Well, right after I finish my shift in our backyard blast-furnace. Grandma's been coming down on us pretty hard, lately, because quotas aren't being met, and I've been filling in for my sister, who's busy putting the finishing touches on that new oil tanker she's been assembling in the driveway.

Excuse me, while I go milk the goats... I'll be about half an hour.

quote:
My dad is a rabid eco-whatever (don't want to say 'fascist', but he's pretty extreme), and in his little east van back yard he's able to grow almost all of what he needs to feed himself, except for a little meat.

Let me guess ... your dad's retired or unemployed, and has a lot of time on his hands?

Like I say, just a guess.

quote:
The only problem (besides the smell) is that there *are* serious problems with the possibility of livestock-to-human virus transfer, a constant concern when people and livestock live closely - especially chickens and swine.

Sure, but as we all know, the constant odour of pig shit builds character. Often, however, it builds the type of character that wants to go to law school, move to a big, sophisticated city, and wear nice clothes, so he can get as far away from the smell of pig shit as humanly possible ... but I digress.

What you describe seems to bear a great deal of resemblance to how people lived in the middle ages, which, as we all know, is basically like Lord Of The Rings -- and that would be, y'know ... like, awesome.


From: out there | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
maestro
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posted 18 March 2005 04:57 AM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And rats. Rats love chickens. Oh yes, and skunks love chickens too. And raccoons, and coyotes, and weasels, and foxes, they love chickens too. Oh yeah, and flies. Flies love all farm animals, and the shit they produce.

I don't think a city is a place where you want to grow agricultural animals.

In the city, It think you better stick to gardens, which can feed people, and absorb CO2 at the same time. You can also plant flowers in a garden, making the environment prettier.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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posted 18 March 2005 07:36 AM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Anchoress:

The only problem (besides the smell) is that there *are* serious problems with the possibility of livestock-to-human virus transfer, a constant concern when people and livestock live closely - especially chickens and swine.

Hmm. As Audrey McLauchlan said in a different context, that's a pretty big "except".


From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 18 March 2005 02:47 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ian gregson:
that's not very nice - are you suffering from post political trauma syndrome ?

I think he meant,
"Please try to recognize that this thread is in the labour and consumption forum, is about individual consumer action, and has thus far been noncontentious. Could you see it in your heart to avoid derailing it into yet another pissing match about the Greens vs. NDP just because that's your hobby horse? Attempting to do so is an unfriendly and self-absorbed approach to this board."

But, y'know, "fuck off" is a lot more succinct.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Amy
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posted 18 March 2005 06:29 PM      Profile for Amy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know about farm animals generally, but in places like Victoria, we're allowed to keep hens for eggs, and I think that more people could take advantage of that without it being a problem.

Pere Ubu, I'm pretty annoyed by your waltzing in to many threads and dismissing everybody by saying that since we can't make DVD players in our living rooms we should shut up. Honestly I think it'd be good for Canada, and more generally western society to see more close up what kind of ills we're causing in the world by our rabid consumerism. If that means more uncomfortable* cities, so be it. Atleast then we might learn our lesson before it's too late.

By uncomfortable I mean some people's definition of the word: less grass, more gardens; smaller houses, more efficient lighting, pedestrian only streets, garbage dumps where we can see em', but not so close that they cause health risks, places where we can trade stuff rather than throwing it away and having other people buy the same item brand new... etc. I think you get the idea.

[ 18 March 2005: Message edited by: Amy ]


From: the whole town erupts and/ bursts into flame | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
PereUbu
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posted 19 March 2005 03:16 AM      Profile for PereUbu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Quoting Amy:

quote:
Honestly I think it'd be good for Canada, and more generally western society to see more close up what kind of ills we're causing in the world by our rabid consumerism.

Ah! So you think it would be good for us? Privation and austerity builds character? Well, then that makes it alright, I guess. Unfortunately, I already have a mother, and she's not a hard-bitten spartanist.

That you presumptuously dismiss everyone else as "rabid consumers", and have an instant prescription for what you have generously diagnosed as their affliction, speaks more to your own blowhard resentments. But it's a free country -- if the hair shirt fits, then feel free to wear it. Just please do it quietly on your own, and spare the rest of us your pious lectures on what you think is "good for" everyone else.

You denounce your fellow citizens with some vague, sweeping accusation that we are somehow "causing the world ill" by our very existence. Hey, if you're really convinced of that, then surely the most effective solution is to take yourself out of the equation -- completely and permanently. That way you'll no longer blight the Earth with "rampant consumerism", or exhaling all that filthy carbon dioxide. Consider it the harshest form of self-criticism.

As I tried to put it more humourously in my previous post: why stop at half measures? Why not carry your philosophy to it's ultimate conclusion? No, of course not. Your puritanical chastisements are for everyone else to endure.

Unlike you, I don't consider my existence as a mere cancerous blight on the planet, so I'm not in the market for whatever you and your fellow Jehovah's Witnesses are selling. Please don't get too bent out of shape if I happen to mock your Calvinist proscriptions.

quote:
Atleast then we might learn our lesson before it's too late.

Mmm, yes. You're going to teach us all a lesson, are you? But what are you afraid we're going to be "too late" for? The return of Jesus? Are we living in the Biblical End Times? Because that's exactly what your type sound like to me.

quote:
By uncomfortable I mean some people's definition of the word: less grass, more gardens; smaller houses, more efficient lighting, pedestrian only streets, garbage dumps where we can see em', but not so close that they cause health risks,

Okay, so your complaints and fatwahs are based entirely on esthetics.

quote:
places where we can trade stuff rather than throwing it away and having other people buy the same item brand new

Oh, absolutely. There's an endless market for broken toasters, and old Air Supply LPs. How do I get in on that deal? Sweet!

quote:
I think you get the idea.

I get it, alright. You've decided we're all being naughty, and you're going to put the hurt on us.

Take a number, sister. Evidently, the line forms to the left.

[ 19 March 2005: Message edited by: PereUbu ]


From: out there | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
PereUbu
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posted 19 March 2005 03:22 AM      Profile for PereUbu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It seems to me, I've heard all of this sort of talk before ...

Yes, now I remember:


From: out there | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 19 March 2005 12:17 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Amy were you talking to someone
From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Amy
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posted 19 March 2005 04:12 PM      Profile for Amy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmm... apparantly not.

Cripes, apparantly the terms 'our', 'us' and 'we' really just boil down to 'everyone else'. Speaking of blowhard resentments...

Not buying useless junk that we will just throw away is hardly austerity. Waiting til something's really truly broken (beyond repair) before chucking it, rather than buying a new model, just cos it matches, is hardly austerity. Reducing consumption of fossil fuels so as to slow global warming, not austerity, just better planning. Smaller houses? Again, better planning. We live on a planet with finite resources and a rapidly changing ecosphere, deny it all you want, but it's true.

I know it's useless arguing, but you were the one who came in making fun of our efforts. In a thread titled "what are you doing for the environment? what could you do, but don't?" the sentiments in my previous posts were 1) acknowleging the limits of our world, and 2) not 'preaching', since everyone on here but you seems to understand that it's important to make some changes, but comiserating.


From: the whole town erupts and/ bursts into flame | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
PereUbu
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posted 26 March 2005 01:48 AM      Profile for PereUbu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Not buying useless junk that we will just throw away is hardly austerity.

I see. Is that what they do with in Victoria? So are you telling me that a large sector of the population goes around "buying useless junk" that is gaily flung into a dumpster, the following week? Do you know people like that? I don't. Pardon me, but you really seem to be exaggerating.

quote:
Waiting til something's really truly broken (beyond repair) before chucking it, rather than buying a new model, just cos it matches, is hardly austerity.

Does that really make sense? Should I hang onto that that old 1967 Chrysler Newport? Sure, it belches out a bigger black cloud of smoke than a Kuwaiti oil field fire when I drive down the block -- but it's not beyond repair. Besides, a new Toyota would just be more useless junk which I'd probably just throw away. I guess I can make the same argument for not changing that pre-industrial revolution coal-fired furnace in the basement, as well.

quote:
Smaller houses? Again, better planning.

What if people don't want to live in smaller houses? And who's "better planning" takes precedence? It seems you have a "plan" for everyone. If you want to live in a smaller house, surrounded by obsolete junk, then nobody is stopping you. However, where people are given a choice, they generally choose not to do that. Deny it all you want, but it's true.

quote:
We live on a planet with finite resources and a rapidly changing ecosphere, deny it all you want, but it's true.

Of course, and as we read here the world is about to come to a cataclysmic end -- just as it always has, ever since mankind crawled down from the trees and angered the gods by stealing fire.

quote:
not 'preaching', since everyone on here but you seems to understand that it's important to make some changes, but comiserating.

Yes, exactly my point.

com·mis·er·ate
Etymology: Latin commiseratus, past participle of commiserari, from com- + miserari to pity, from miser wretched

I doubt you folks won't be happy, until everyone else is as wretched and miserable as yourselves. If you think living like a medieval peasant will save the world from certain doom, go crazy.

Excuse me if the rest of us don't join the party.


From: out there | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Amy
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posted 26 March 2005 02:08 AM      Profile for Amy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Commiserate, common usage: express sympathy (in this case: sympathy for a cause). Look, I can go to dictionary.com as easily as you can, and I can see that you only gave the roots of the word, and the root of this word only fully accounts for one of the two definitions given. You are using all sorts of really underhanded methods to prove your 'point', inlcuding deception (see above) and misrepresentation by taking things out of their obvious context. Congratulations, you've gotten your wish, this is my last post in this thread.
From: the whole town erupts and/ bursts into flame | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 26 March 2005 06:45 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Don't make it your last post, Amy, just ignore it and move on. He does this sort of thing in every thread. Just ignore him.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 26 March 2005 09:26 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PereUbu:
I see. Is that what they do with in Victoria? So are you telling me that a large sector of the population goes around "buying useless junk" that is gaily flung into a dumpster, the following week? Do you know people like that? I don't. Pardon me, but you really seem to be exaggerating..

You've never been to Ottawa. Every week people throw out heaps of useless mass produced junk, a testament to throw away capitalism. Ripped and mildew stained plastic shower curtain liners that took thousands of gallons of fresh water to make for the sake of get-rich-quick capitalism. Discarded diapers by the millions and plastic widgets made from non-renewable resources. It's no exaggeration just as non-corporate-sponsored scientists have less reason to fib about global warming.

quote:

Excuse me if the rest of us don't join the party.

You've got oil stain all over your fat chin, PU.

[ 26 March 2005: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
PereUbu
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posted 27 March 2005 04:45 PM      Profile for PereUbu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
You've never been to Ottawa.

How do you know? Actually, I have -- many, many times. Usually I try to arrive on garbage day, so I can pick through all those wide-screen plasma TVs, Armani suits, and Rolex watches people leave at the curb, every week.

quote:
Every week people throw out heaps of useless mass produced junk, a testament to throw away capitalism.

Okay, I can't argue with that -- but I wasn't specifically referring to Adrienne Clarkson and her wife, John Ralston Saul.

quote:
Ripped and mildew stained plastic shower curtain liners that took thousands of gallons of fresh water to make for the sake of get-rich-quick capitalism.

Wow! Why didn't you tell me?! If I had known there are such tall Lincolns to be made in the plastic shower curtain liner racket, I would have given up my crystal meth lab and selling crack to teenagers, like, yesterday!

Heh-heh! St. Tropez, here I come!


From: out there | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 27 March 2005 05:04 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just felt a breeze. Anyone else feel a breeze??
From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
K Connor
rabble-rouser
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posted 30 March 2005 12:13 AM      Profile for K Connor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pere Ubu says: Are we living in the Biblical End Times? Because that's exactly what your type sound like to me.

Really? Seems like you have trouble assessing epistemic claims.

Let's see, on the one hand, there's the 2000-year-old ravings of some "Middle Eastern" tribesmen whose authority begins and ends with their claim to be speaking the Word of God.

On the other we have, to cite the most recent example:
" A report backed by 1,360 scientists from 95 countries - some of them world leaders in their fields - today warns that almost two-thirds of the natural machinery that supports life on Earth is being degraded by human pressure.

"Human activity is putting such a strain on the natural functions of Earth that the ability of the planet's ecosystems to sustain future generations can no longer be taken for granted," it says."

[Quoted from a Guardian article. The Financial Times gives the name of the report as the Millenium Ecosystem Assessment.]

With your taste for overblown rhetoric, it's understandable that "austerity" displeases you. Strange then that you're so stingy with your intellectual resources, unless, of course, they were rather modest to begin with.


From: Montreal | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
K Connor
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posted 07 April 2005 02:32 PM      Profile for K Connor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Since I seem to have killed the thread with my spanking of PU, perhaps I can resurrect it with some thoughts closer to the original topic.

I find the following comment that RM snipped from some website sloppy:

"Cloth versus disposable diapers. The debate once raged, but the results are in - and it is a tie. Disposables do build up in the landfill, but their cloth rivals are washed again and again with hot water, detergent and even chlorine bleach. Use the diapers that work for you. (And avoid chlorine like the toxic chemical it is.)"

It's only really a tie if water conservation is equal as an issue to landfill space. Perhaps there are some parts of Yankee fly-over country that have so little water and so much empty space for landfills that disposables make more sense, but that's not likely the case in most of Canada, esp. the large urban areas where most Canadians live. The chlorine is not an issue as bleach should not be used with cloth diapers anyway, according to the manufacturers and sellers. As well, you only use half as much detergent in a load of diapers as you would with normal laundry; but yes, you do use more. Still, that has to be compared with the chemical absorbents found in disposable diapers. Not sure which of these products is ultimately worse.

Maybe the energy use issue is a tie, since one definitely uses a lot more hot water for washing the diapers, but a full energy accounting would require considering all the energy used in manufacturing the constituents of the (1500?) disposable diapers used for one kid, then the energy to combine the constituents into the diapers, transport them to the store, transport them to your home, and transport them to the dump versus the energy to manufacture 100 cloth diapers, 30 covers, the disposable liners, and diaper pail, transport them to the store and to your house, and then heat the water to wash the diapers and covers (plus the dryer if one doesn't hang dry them). I don't know which comes out ahead, but I'm guessing given the numbers that the cloth diapers require less energy than the disposables. And that's not even considering the possibility of using the diapers, covers, and pail for a second (or more) kid(s). As well, the laundry energy is going to be electrical energy, and here in Quebec that's GHG free. Whereas all that extra transportion for the disposables has got to be GHG heavy, let alone what sort of energy source they're using wherever they manufacture the disposables.

Anyway, that's the basic reasoning behind why we use cloth diapers. I don't find them to be much more of a hassle than disposables. Definitely, there is no point in being puritan about it. We have also used some disposables when it made things easier for us (esp. in the first week). Better to use cloth diapers 80% of the time or even 40% of the time if that's what works for somebody (for someone who uses a laundromat, cloth diapers are obviously going to be more of a burden) than using disposables 100% of the time.

One thing I think is interesting is the possible "synergy" (gak!) between reducing landfill waste and aiding low-income families. Here in Quebec, at least, the municipalities will by law eventually have to significantly reduce the amount of garbage sent to the landfill. If they use some of their green funds to subsidize cloth diapers for low-income families (who often can't afford the higher initial costs), they not only reduce landfill amounts, but also help those families save money since cloth diapers are less expensive over the entire diapering period than disposables. Since low-income families are likely to spend a fair portion of their extra money in the groceries and clothing stores near where they live, there's even likely to be some spin-off benefit for local businesses (if not the drugstores that sell the diapers).

Hmmm, giventhat the post has attained tome-length, I suppose I'll have smothered the thread for good.
Oh well.


From: Montreal | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 07 April 2005 03:01 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interesting points. We've been using cloth diapers, with a few bio-degradable disposables for excursions etc. We use a diaper service, largely because we would be using a coin laundromat otherwise, the cost is roughly equal (close enough for jazz anyway) and we don't have to wash them. I wish I could send them the rest of my laundry... They also use fairly eco-friendly cleaning techniques (it is a selling point, hooray for Vancouver).
From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
K Connor
rabble-rouser
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posted 08 April 2005 06:05 AM      Profile for K Connor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, I'm originally from BC, so I know how much more important laundromats are there compared to Montreal where a lot of apartments have washer and dryer hookups. That's cool about the bio-degradable disposables, I'll have to look into that.
From: Montreal | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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posted 08 April 2005 07:41 AM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Original thread question:
quote:
What are you doing for the environment? What could you do, but don't?

We would like to get a fuel efficient car, but they are horribly expensive. We ruled out Volkswagon's diesels because diesel exhaust is even worse than gas exhaust for problems with health. (Asthma, etc.) The sub compacts are way too small to be useful for us. (sorry, but that's personal reality.) One pays about $12000 extra for Prius and Civic hybrids over comparable standard cars. One would have to drive one about twenty years at today's gas prices to make up the difference.

One can look up fuel economy at Personal Vehicle Initiative.

In the meantime, I keep pedaling.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
rabble-rouser
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posted 08 April 2005 12:44 PM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good news for water-conscious Vancouver residents:

quote:
April 6, 2005
Indoor Water Saver Kits on sale for Vancouver residents
Vancouver residents are being encouraged to help the environment, prevent water shortages and save on their water heating bills by getting an Indoor Water Saver Kit.

The City of Vancouver is making the kits available to Vancouver residents only (proof of residency required) for $12 (retail value is approximately $30).

Each kit contains: one adjustable massage spray showerhead, one dual-setting touch flow kitchen aerator; two faucet sink aerators; two toilet tank bags, two packages of leak detection dye tablets, and one roll of Teflon tape.

The showerhead and aerators help provide good water flow using less water. The toilet tank bags save up to three litres of water per flush; while the leak detection dye tablets test for water leaking from toilet tank to bowl. Teflon tape is used to seal showerheads and aerators to prevent any leaking.

Using the kit could help residents use 15 to 20 per cent less water indoors, and 10 to 15 per cent less energy for heating water.

Kits are available at Vancouver City Hall in the Client Service Centre on the main floor. The limit is two kits per resident while quantities last. For more details, visit vancouver.ca/water


Media enquiries:

Sherman Yee
Waterworks Design
604.871.6189


There's a thread on the topic HERE.


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged

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