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1234567
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posted 06 March 2008 12:21 PM      Profile for 1234567     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A majority of my extended family are Xians and they have a difficult time dealing with me and my lack of religion. I end up not going to family functions because I know that it will eventually lead to me trying to defend my non beliefs. This is getting harder and harder for me to deal with as I get older. I don't even know if I would call myself spiritual, although I have had some amazing things happen to me on that level. Anyway, I am just wondering if some of you face the same. Thanks
From: speak up, even if your voice shakes | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 06 March 2008 12:31 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A good network of friends outside of your immediate family, some clarity about your own values and spiritual life, and an open heart will carry you forward.

And for extra, bonus points, make use of Christian inspiration to substantiate your own non-Christian path.

Here, I'll help you with a quote from a famous Christian poet.

quote:
What I do is me. For that I came into this world.

Here's the rest.

quote:
As kingfishers catch fire, dragonflies draw flame;
As tumbled over rim in roundy wells
Stones ring; like each tucked string tells, each hung bell's
Bow swung finds tongue to fling out broad its name;
Each mortal thing does one thing and the same:
Deals out that being indoors each one dwells;
Selves — goes itself; myself it speaks and spells,
Crying, What I do is me: for that I came.

I say more: the just man justices;
Keeps grace: that keeps all his goings graces;
Acts in God's eye what in God's eye he is —
Christ. For Christ plays in ten thousand places,
Lovely in limbs, and lovely in eyes not his
To the Father through the features of men's faces.


The poem, As Kingfishers Catch Fire, is by Gerald Manley Hopkins.

[ 06 March 2008: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 06 March 2008 12:34 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
1-7, no, not in my family they strove very hard to be secular humanists considering what religion has historically done to ancestors. Having said that the community I grew up in was, and is still, very church centered.

2 of my very close friends are very xian, of the Evangelical fundamentalist type, or rather were, though now, while still religious, they understand things differently pertaining to my lack of religion. I had to teach and explain them for them to do so, it was really deprogramming the operant conditioning they had been suffering from.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
1234567
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posted 06 March 2008 12:41 PM      Profile for 1234567     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Many of my family members have just "found" religion. I am uncomfortable with it because it is a very evangelical religion. I think this is because I was brought up a Catholic and both are so different in the way they express their faith. I try really hard but most times I just want to get the hell out of wherever I am. I feel as though I am going to be sucked into a cult. I have a great fear of this and am wondering if it's because of residential school?
From: speak up, even if your voice shakes | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 06 March 2008 12:52 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My parents were very Catholic and I was raised as one. I now just tell my family that I believe in the Old Testament view that god is unknowable for mere humans and therefore anyone who tells me they have a personal relationship with god is either delusional or mistaken. All major religions share many of the same socialist believes like the xian "golden rule."

quote:
Some "Ethic of Reciprocity" passages from the religious texts of various religions and secular beliefs:
Bahá'í Faith: "Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not." "Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself." Baha'u'llah
"And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself." Epistle to the Son of the Wolf

Brahmanism: "This is the sum of Dharma [duty]: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you". Mahabharata, 5:1517 "
Buddhism: "...a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?" Samyutta NIkaya v. 353
Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." Udana-Varga 5:18

Christianity: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12, King James Version.
"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31, King James Version.
"...and don't do what you hate...", Gospel of Thomas 6. The Gospel of Thomas is one of about 40 gospels that were widely accepted among early Christians, but which never made it into the Christian Scriptures (New Testament).

Confucianism: "Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" Analects 15:23
"Tse-kung asked, 'Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?' Confucius replied, 'It is the word 'shu' -- reciprocity. Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire.'" Doctrine of the Mean 13.3
"Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence." Mencius VII.A.4

Ancient Egyptian: "Do for one who may do for you, that you may cause him thus to do." The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant, 109 - 110 Translated by R.B. Parkinson. The original dates to 1970 to 1640 BCE and may be the earliest version ever written. 3

Hinduism: This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. Mahabharata 5:1517

Humanism: "(5) Humanists acknowledge human interdependence, the need for mutual respect and the kinship of all humanity."
"(11) Humanists affirm that individual and social problems can only be resolved by means of human reason, intelligent effort, critical thinking joined with compassion and a spirit of empathy for all living beings. " 4
"Don't do things you wouldn't want to have done to you, British Humanist Society. 3

Islam: "None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." Number 13 of Imam "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths." 5
Jainism: "Therefore, neither does he [a sage] cause violence to others nor does he make others do so." Acarangasutra 5.101-2.
"In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should regard all creatures as we regard our own self." Lord Mahavira, 24th Tirthankara
"A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated. "Sutrakritanga 1.11.33

Judaism: "...thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.", Leviticus 19:18
"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat 31a.
"And what you hate, do not do to any one." Tobit 4:15 6

Native American Spirituality: "Respect for all life is the foundation." The Great Law of Peace.
"All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really One." Black Elk
"Do not wrong or hate your neighbor. For it is not he who you wrong, but yourself." Pima proverb.

Roman Pagan Religion: "The law imprinted on the hearts of all men is to love the members of society as themselves."
Shinto: "The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form"
"Be charitable to all beings, love is the representative of God." Ko-ji-ki Hachiman Kasuga

Sikhism: Compassion-mercy and religion are the support of the entire world". Japji Sahib
"Don't create enmity with anyone as God is within everyone." Guru Arjan Devji 259
"No one is my enemy, none a stranger and everyone is my friend." Guru Arjan Dev : AG 1299

Sufism: "The basis of Sufism is consideration of the hearts and feelings of others. If you haven't the will to gladden someone's heart, then at least beware lest you hurt someone's heart, for on our path, no sin exists but this." Dr. Javad Nurbakhsh, Master of the Nimatullahi Sufi Order.
Taoism: "Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien.
"The sage has no interest of his own, but takes the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind; he is also kind to the unkind: for Virtue is kind. He is faithful to the faithful; he is also faithful to the unfaithful: for Virtue is faithful." Tao Teh Ching, Chapter 49

Unitarian:

"The inherent worth and dignity of every person;"
"Justice, equity and compassion in human relations.... "
"The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;"
"We affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part." Unitarian principles. 7,8

Wicca: "An it harm no one, do what thou wilt" (i.e. do what ever you will, as long as it harms nobody, including yourself). One's will is to be carefully thought out in advance of action. This is called the Wiccan Rede
Yoruba: (Nigeria): "One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts."
Zoroastrianism: "That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself". Dadistan-i-dinik 94:5
"Whatever is disagreeable to yourself do not do unto others." Shayast-na-Shayast 13:29

Some philosophers' statements are:
Epictetus: "What you would avoid suffering yourself, seek not to impose on others." (circa 100 CE)
Kant: "Act as if the maxim of thy action were to become by thy will a universal law of nature."
Plato: "May I do to others as I would that they should do unto me." (Greece; 4th century BCE)
Socrates: "Do not do to others that which would anger you if others did it to you." (Greece; 5th century BCE)
Seneca: "Treat your inferiors as you would be treated by your superiors," Epistle 47:11 (Rome; 1st century CE)

Examples from moral/ethical systems are:
Humanism: "...critical intelligence, infused by a sense of human caring, is the best method that humanity has for resolving problems. Reason should be balanced with compassion and empathy and the whole person fulfilled." Humanist Manifesto II; Ethics section.
Scientology: "20: Try to treat others as you would want them to treat you." This is one of the 21 moral precepts that form the moral code explained in L. Ron Hubbard's booklet "The Way to Happiness."


So you can believe in some things without having to belong to any religious cult, whether that be the millennial old catholic of the newer born again.

From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Makwa
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posted 06 March 2008 12:58 PM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 1234567:
Many of my family members have just "found" religion.
Interesting problem. I'm trying to get my sister (whom I've recently contacted after 40 some years) to come to a sweatlodge, but as she grew up Catholic, she is reluctant. Aboriginal traditionalism is not only limited by the few practicing elders, but by the loss of belief among FN people.

From: Here at the glass - all the usual problems, the habitual farce | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 06 March 2008 02:32 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 1234567:
Many of my family members have just "found" religion.

Newbies are always over zealous, no matter what it is, they will get over it.

However, a good place to start with them is to really explain human rights to them until they get it. Freemdom of conscience and action means just that, and they and all religious people, need to understand what that means.

quote:
I am uncomfortable with it because it is a very evangelical religion. I think this is because I was brought up a Catholic and both are so different in the way they express their faith. I try really hard but most times I just want to get the hell out of wherever I am.
Do leave, and feel no guilt, and keep leaving, until they realize they have no right to intrude upon your freedom of conscience.

quote:
I feel as though I am going to be sucked into a cult. I have a great fear of this and am wondering if it's because of residential school?
It could be, though I feel that you are actually recognizing that in fact it is a cult.

From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 06 March 2008 02:42 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 1234567:
A majority of my extended family are Xians and they have a difficult time dealing with me and my lack of religion.

It's like any addiction, you have to do it in steps:

1. Tell them, "Hey, I met this nice Jewish/Muslim/Animist person and I've started going to their services. Really cool."

2. Pick them up off the floor.

3. Then tell them, "I was just kidding - it's actually an Atheist and we don't go anywhere."

Works every time.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
1234567
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posted 06 March 2008 03:17 PM      Profile for 1234567     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, my family members are good hard working people and I don't know why so many have decided to go with this religion. They were not brought up Catholic, I was.

I guess what I find scary is that they are still so loving and caring and I used to be able to talk to them about my life and what was going on. Now when I discuss anything about my life it's "you must find Jesus" and when I do that then everything will be okay. So now I don't talk to them about anything and I am finding that we are growing apart. This is family and I guess that's why it's so hard for me because I dont' want to lose them but I don't want to have to watch what I say all the time either. 'sigh' Thanks all for your words and i think that if I just keep saying that "it ain't for me" and I keep my distance from it and them, maybe they'll miss me enough to accept me as I am.


From: speak up, even if your voice shakes | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 06 March 2008 03:37 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They think they know what's in your best interest and will keep trying to "break" you.

I told one overzealous born again relative "Listen - save your own soul, mine is just fine. And I have a great relationship with God and my spirituality is my own business. Please stop trying to "convert me" it's annoying."

Took a few tries but all is fine now. The huge excitement high of the "overzealous newbie" does eventually come down. Mine took about a year or so for the "high" to come down.


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
saga
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posted 06 March 2008 04:16 PM      Profile for saga   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And when they say 'I used to have that problem but I found God ... so I ... '

Just say "That's very commendable." and change the subject.

That's a tough situation ... not being able to communicate with your family. I can relate ... for other reasons. It turns into 'managing' the conversation to avoid the 'land mines', and that is tense and unpleasant.

[ 06 March 2008: Message edited by: saga ]


From: Canada | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 07 March 2008 02:50 AM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Freemdom of conscience and action means just that, and they and all religious people, need to understand what that means.

Well, one could discuss how our conception of the "subject" which has a moral choice/obligation and is individually responsible for their actions is, in fact, derived from the Catholic notion of sin/redemption. Our "secular" traditions are deeply influenced by the philosophical history handed down by the Catholic church. Even the Protestants, while leaning toward "predestination" usually will agree that "good works" are the sign of a good person, and not any particular belief, though that's changed with the influence of the Jaaaaaysus Hero Cult thing that's been happening in the past few decades. But, I find if I take the conversation down these avenues, one can squeak out without having to "testify" and find some areas of serious agreement.

[ 07 March 2008: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Polly Brandybuck
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posted 07 March 2008 12:07 PM      Profile for Polly Brandybuck     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have this problem at one of the offices I work for. My employer is born-again and insists on telling me all the good godstuff that goes with it. (ie my wife and I prayed for help and the next day the bank called and offered us an overdraft..or my wife and I prayed for our little boy to get better and today he's fine and my wife...you get the idea). It drives me crazy because if you put aside the over zealous religious crap, he is a really nice caring smart individual. Then he does the god thing.

And I wonder about the tactic, if this is something they teach at church. Don't try to force your religion on others, just tell them over and over and over and over all the good things that god has done for you and keep repeating them till the listener either throws up or converts?

BTW, the little boy only had the flu.


From: To Infinity...and beyond! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 07 March 2008 12:11 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Polly Brandybuck:
I have this problem at one of the offices I work for. My employer is born-again and insists on telling me all the good godstuff that goes with it. (ie my wife and I prayed for help and the next day the bank called and offered us an overdraft..or my wife and I prayed for our little boy to get better and today he's fine and my wife...you get the idea). It drives me crazy because if you put aside the over zealous religious crap, he is a really nice caring smart individual. Then he does the god thing.

And I wonder about the tactic, if this is something they teach at church. Don't try to force your religion on others, just tell them over and over and over and over all the good things that god has done for you and keep repeating them till the listener either throws up or converts?

BTW, the little boy only had the flu.


And they prayed for 7 days and look what happened!

Proof enough for me...


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 07 March 2008 12:13 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, that is a tactic they teach at church. They call it "witnessing". It's an evangelical staple, and they suggest different ways of doing it depending on different situations. In the workplace, the appropriate way to do it is not to ask the person to come to church or ask them to commit to Jesus. The appropriate way to do it is to just be positive and descriptive of your own faith and religious activities if there is an appropriate place in the conversation or at the water cooler to do it, but to watch your boundaries.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 07 March 2008 12:23 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Your employer may be a nice person but if you are uncomfortable you have every right to suggest nicely to him that you do not want to hear anything about his religion and his prayers. Of course this may be a minefield if he is not really a nice guy but is in fact consciously trying to convert you and will take offence.
From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Polly Brandybuck
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posted 07 March 2008 12:51 PM      Profile for Polly Brandybuck     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nah, he IS really a nice guy, and I find it hard to tell him that I don't want to hear about (insert miracle here) because he honestly believes it all to be true. He believes in his god, and he would like me to believe it too so that I can be as happy as he is. He thinks that if he can just convince me to come to jesus he will have done a good thing.

So it's not like someone trying to sell you a used car, he is really wanting to save me. He is being nice in a very annoying way.

So I nod and turn down the volume on my hearing, and say things like oh my son had that flu too, it only lasted a few days.


From: To Infinity...and beyond! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 07 March 2008 01:08 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just a quick comment. The whole 'witnessing' tactic or belief is only part of some churches. I grew up in a Christian church and had no clue what witnessing was in any real sense (beyond some references on tv shows) until my late 20's when a schoolmate of mine found out I grew up going to church and freaked out that I was going to try to convert her. It was quite funny actually because all of a sudden she pulled back and was like OMG are you going to 'witness' me and try to save me? I responded with total confusion, "What the heck does that mean? I don't even really know what witness is or even what being saved is?" This then brought more confusion on her part. Long story short she had a really bad experience growing up with really fundie, evangelical parents and family members who kicked her out and thought that all Christian's or people that went to church did that sort of thing. Once we got over the confusion part and I assured her that no, I could care less what she thought or believed we were able to have good conversation about it all. I couldn't believe the things she told me...it was very painful.

The whole you have to go out and purposely try to convert people and talk about your faith just wasn't part of my experience at all. It's was and still is a totally foreign concept.

From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
1234567
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posted 07 March 2008 01:16 PM      Profile for 1234567     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have an old schoolmate of mine who belongs to a particular religion. His religion teaches that their religion is the only one that has a spot behind the pearly gates in heaven and so he wants his friends there too and so he tried to get me to join. He's a smart guy but he's always been "searching" so it really doesn't surprise me that he's found what he's found.

I really try to be open-minded as so many of the people that I care deeply for are in these religions. The friends I used to be able to sit down with and have a cold beer with, are now saved and don't frequent the pub anymore. "sigh"


From: speak up, even if your voice shakes | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 07 March 2008 01:19 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I did say "evangelical". I know not all churches are into witnessing.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
AfroHealer
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posted 09 March 2008 03:26 AM      Profile for AfroHealer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 1234567:

I really try to be open-minded as so many of the people that I care deeply for are in these religions. The friends I used to be able to sit down with and have a cold beer with, are now saved and don't frequent the pub anymore. "sigh"

MY uncle always said, if God did not want him to drink, Jesus would never have turned water in to wine.

I have intimate connections with Christianity, partially from teh fact that both Grandpaernts were foudners of Churches in West Africa. Heck my hometown of my father is called "Bethel".

ON moving to Canda, i ws shocked adn aauled by what is being practiced here in the name of Xtrianity.

Most so-called Christians have not read or studyiiiied the Bible, bu tyet they claim to follow it.

How is it possible to follow something , if u don't really know what it is.
I tell fundies that "the truth shall set you free" .
I also remind them that Jesus said "many shall come , like a thief in the night, to deceive you "
I think Jesus also taught people to use their minds, bodies and spirits.

The evangelistical cults of today, tend to teach people to shut of thier brains and to be "children of God". I think Jesus was teaching people to be mature adults, in their spiritual path.

We say back home that the missionaries taught Africans to close their eyes, & face the heavens, so that we would not notice that they were stealing our land and resources.

Jesus spent a good chunk of his time with those who were despised by the Jewish society at the time, the poor, tax collectors, prostitutes etc. So to be a true Christian, they need to learn to open their hearts ho& minds, and when its safe their homes to all kinds of peoples. Last time i checked the bible stated that God loved all,.

If you pay close attention, you will quickly come to the realisation that Jesus Christ was against the very things that the modern churches stand for today. They are the modern day pharisees.

quote:
he name Pharisee in its Hebrew form means separatists, or the separated ones. They were also known as chasidim, which means loyal to God, or loved of God - extremely ironic in view of the fact that by His time, they made themselves the most bitter, and deadly, opponents of Jesus Christ and His message.

The Pharisees perhaps meant to obey God, but eventually they became so devoted and extremist in very limited parts of The Law (plus all that they themselves added to it), that they became blind to The Messiah when He was in their very midst. They saw His miracles, they heard His Words, but instead of receiving it with joy, they did all that they could to stop Him - eventually to the point of getting Him killed because He truthfully claimed to be the Son of God.


I think they bible also teaches "judgment is mine, sayeth the lord"

Most Christians claim they are following the teachings of Jesus & that they want to be like Jesus, but they have no idea who or what Jesus was teaching.


Checkout " the Pagan Christ" , that will give you plenty of credible information from Christian Scholars. The truth 1234567 will truly set you free.

http://www.tomharpur.com/ Author of "THe Pagan Christ"


From: Atlantic Canada | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 09 March 2008 06:02 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Even the Pope has apologized for anti-Semitic shit like this.
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
1234567
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posted 09 March 2008 06:32 AM      Profile for 1234567     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
AH, no offense, but for me the truth is this: There is not one single religion that I have come into contact with that does not trash other religions. While I understand the need for people to feel a part of something, I will not join any group, religion or club that points the finger and condemns others. It seems to me that many of these religions profess to follow the bible, when really they don't, as it clearly states in the bible that we are not to judge one another. I see alot of judging going on in these religions.

To me, that is not what being a good human being is about and I believe that if Jesus were around today he would be disgusted.


From: speak up, even if your voice shakes | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
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posted 09 March 2008 06:40 AM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And, at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between, plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big 'thing.' This is truth, to me."
--Jack Handey


From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
AfroHealer
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posted 09 March 2008 06:45 AM      Profile for AfroHealer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No offense taken 1234567, cuz you pretty much just echoed what i was saying.

For me Religion = Dumbass rules, usually put together by a group of dumbass men.

To err is human, so if we choose to look to any one man or woman for our salvation, we are more interested in ego's and images than truth.

The truth is most spiritual paths, have been co-opted by greed ,power and politics, and morphed into religiosity.

But to get back to your point of how to deal with family members that push religion. I think in the case of those who are in a religion that you can easily get lots of information to use as ammunition in stating your case, it helps to do that.

Especially since they might not listen to the so-called "unbelievers" or "unsaved", but if you can point them towards resources that are written by fellow converts which bring forth the same arguments that you have, there is a better chance that they will actually pay attention .

Education can go a long long way.


From: Atlantic Canada | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11463

posted 09 March 2008 07:12 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
His religion teaches that their religion is the only one that has a spot behind the pearly gates in heaven and so he wants his friends there too and so he tried to get me to join.
Is that what they call Faithbook...?

[ 09 March 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Polly Brandybuck
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7732

posted 09 March 2008 07:15 AM      Profile for Polly Brandybuck     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
# The entire cosmos is the manifestation of Divine Mind-every molecule, every cell, every creature, every rock, tree, mountain, planet, blazing star, whirling galaxy and universe of galaxies.

from tom harpur link

Hmm, intelligent design? Can't buy it.


From: To Infinity...and beyond! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sineed
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11260

posted 09 March 2008 07:19 AM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We have some religious juxtapositions in my family. My mother-in-law is a fundamentalist Xian, and she's also a lovely person who doesn't try to force it on anybody. My parents are not religious, my dad being a staunch atheist who feels that humanity invented religion as a form of social control. My mom is a first-wave feminist who is suspicious of religions because of their patriarchal nature.

And family get-togethers? Totally amiable. My mother-in-law will say that Jesus sacrificed himself for all of us, and she finds strength in knowing this, and my dad will nod and change the subject.

Basically, my parents and my in-laws are all middle-class white retired people, and they have enough experiences in common to talk about without having to get into religious arguments over Christmas dinner.


From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11463

posted 09 March 2008 07:47 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My mother is very much a Roman Catholic and even though she'd love for me and my siblings to follow suit (e.g. baptize our kids, attend Mass), we just don't, impervious to guilt (OR SO WE LIKE TO THINK). She nags a little, but has learned to live with it, loves us for better reasons I'd say, and pointing this out helps head off ther sermons.
I humour her (writing little skits for her birthday about the reception she can expect at the Pearly Gates when St.Peter will read her the Riot Act about a few specific Capital Sins of hers), because I know her devout Catholicism makes her that much of a generous and dedicated activist; indeed I am off in knee-deep snow to the Easter benefit brunch she organized (at 89 with bad arthritis!) for the local chapter of Development & Peace, raising h*ll about the ecological depredations of Canadian mining companies in the Third World).
Knowing their script seems to help... Catholicism has plenty of Prodigal Son & Eleventh-Hour Workers parables to justify my slacking and her awaiting the flash of enlightenment. And I always have an appropriate metaphor or cite to quote when I am winning at cards (Sermon of the Mount comes in handy...)

[ 09 March 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged

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