babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » right brain babble   » body and soul   » Attention Deficit Disorder

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Attention Deficit Disorder
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 04 March 2008 02:05 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Does it actually exist? I was watching this video on Youtube(which I have posted in Youtube Goodies 3) where the idea was being put forward that Albert Eienstein had Autism. It has also been postulated that he had Attention Deficit Disorder, and some of the characterics that were discribed in the video do sound like the stuff ADD is made of. So does the disorder actually exist, or have cases of autism simply been relabeled?
From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
RosaL
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13921

posted 04 March 2008 02:14 PM      Profile for RosaL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
Does it actually exist? I was watching this video on Youtube(which I have posted in Youtube Goodies 3) where the idea was being put forward that Albert Eienstein had Autism. It has also been postulated that he had Attention Deficit Disorder, and some of the characterics that were discribed in the video do sound like the stuff ADD is made of. So does the disorder actually exist, or have cases of autism simply been relabeled?

I didn't think he sounded ADD on the video. To me, the characteristics described are typical of autism. What sounded like ADD to you?


From: the underclass | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 04 March 2008 02:27 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I've heard that people with ADD, while thy can have very short attention spans, can go through periods when they are intensely focused on just one thing.
From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
RosaL
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13921

posted 04 March 2008 02:34 PM      Profile for RosaL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
Well, I've heard that people with ADD, while thy can have very short attention spans, can go through periods when they are intensely focused on just one thing.

I don't know much about ADD, or how it is supposed to be related to autism. But this intense focus thing is apparently intermittent in ADD, eh? That might be one difference. And then there are the other characteristics mentioned: late (and "unusual") speech development, social "distance". I forget the other things they mentioned about Einstein, but I don't know that any of these are typical of ADD. But they are certainly typical of autism.

However, as I mentioned, I know very little about ADD.


From: the underclass | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged
1234567
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14443

posted 04 March 2008 02:44 PM      Profile for 1234567     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, I went and got tested for ADD and found out I was just stupid. (just kidding)

When I was looking into I thought that people who had ADD just seemed to not have learned self discipline and I thought that maybe if they had some therapy, it just might help. It's mostly about being disorganized and way too much multitasking. At least that's what I got from reading and learning about it.


From: speak up, even if your voice shakes | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
saga
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13017

posted 04 March 2008 03:32 PM      Profile for saga   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Smart people with AD(H)D seldom get diagnosed because they are still able to function at at least average levels and some are brilliant.

They may bother some people with their disorganized approach, but they generally do function ok.

Personally, I think their apparent 'disorganization' and 'multi-tasking' may sometimes lead to insights other people don't have, because they entertain all ideas at once and see connections better. jmo

[ 04 March 2008: Message edited by: saga ]


From: Canada | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
1234567
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14443

posted 04 March 2008 03:35 PM      Profile for 1234567     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, I think for some it gets overwhelming and that's when they go for help. I really don't think there is such a thing as ADD. I just think we are so damn busy in this busy world and we all think we're supposed to keep up. Geez, just trying to keep up with technology for me is tiring, let alone all the stuff happening in the world and with my kids and my job and and and...I'm tired just writing about it.
From: speak up, even if your voice shakes | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14858

posted 04 March 2008 03:38 PM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Having worked with a lot of kids with ADD, as well as having a brother with ADHD, this is a serious disorder, that in certain circumstances, does respond to medication.

My brother was very intelligent (still is) and would blast through his school work and then get really bored. He lack impulse control which would get him into more trouble.

Saying he just needed theapy is ignorance of this disorder. My parents had us in family counselling, had him assessed, he spent a summer at a youth based assessment facility to see if they could figure out how to proceed to help him best.

I watched therapists destroy my mother's self esteem as they told her his problems were because she left our father - living in an abusive situation would have obviously solved all the problems.

She went back to University and got a degree with a minor in psychology just to learn more about him. She was thrilled when she learned that they had proven that star charts and rewards like that, don't work on ADD and ADHD kids. She tried it all and none of it worked.

Nothing really worked. He left home at 18 and worked various construction jobs. He spent two stints in jail for property crimes, got into a bar fight that ended up with him with his jaw broken in 4 places.

When his daughter was born when he was 31 it was a total wake up call. He went to college, with my parents help, and took an engineering course.

He now works for GM, makes double what I do and GM is working on getting him pardoned so he can travel to the States. The Auto-cad program he uses to design the military vehicles operates at the same speed as his mind, and provides enough stimulation he's become one of their top designers.

There is a place for each unique person on this planet, and while he made my childhood a living hell, I am so glad he's become the person he has, regardless of the people who labeled and walked on him.


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
1234567
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14443

posted 04 March 2008 03:40 PM      Profile for 1234567     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Geez, RF, sorry about my last comment. I'm glad your brother is doing great now.
From: speak up, even if your voice shakes | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14858

posted 04 March 2008 03:51 PM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 1234567:
Geez, RF, sorry about my last comment. I'm glad your brother is doing great now.

No worries

I find this is one of those things unless you've lived with or experienced it, then people tend to feel it's a cop out for parents with "highly spirited children".

One of the revelations my mother had when I was in my early 20's was that I wasn't "as good" as they thought I was, she realized I was just really good at getting away with things and hiding things I was getting into. My brother couldn't lie to save his life, and he made dumb mistakes when he was trying to get away with stuff. We had a huge laugh about it.

I have also noted that children with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and Effect, more often than not have ADD and ADHD.

I am of two minds when it comes to medication. I've worked with children who have become zombies when on medication, and we as workers, advocated a reduction in medication with an emphasis we were prepared to deal with his behaviour. But I've also worked with a boy who's behavior was so wild, not violent, but mean and mouthy and out of control, that my supervisor spoke to his mom, who confessed she'd put him back on his meds for the evenings because she couldn't handle him. They had wanted to take him off for the summer to help clear his system.

When he went back on he came and apologized to me and we had a great chat and spent the rest of the summer on really good terms, taking advantage of his imagination and energy.

So yes there are cases where parents want the label so they can avoid 'parenting' but this is real.


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
N.R.KISSED
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1258

posted 04 March 2008 04:13 PM      Profile for N.R.KISSED     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is absolutely no evidence of any structural or neurochemical differences in people that have diagnosis of ADHD nor is there any biological tests or markers to determine if someone has this "disorder." It is possible that there are subtle neurological differences in some children that do impact attention, however the explosion of this diagnosis is a cause for concern. It is also disconcerting that diagnosis are frequently made without considering other explanations.

Children who are survivors of a variety of traumas are going to display marked difficulties in focusing, attention and will experience hyperarousal and response to all manner of stimuli.

Food allegies and chemical sensitivities can also be components involved in what gets labelled ADHD.

It is important to know that it is psychiatry's default position to blame the brain and claim that there is a neurochemical imbalance despite the fact that they have never empirically demonstrated one. Ritalin sales are also a massive market for pharmaceutical companies and aggressive promotion of "diagnostic" programs has been a wonder for sales.


From: Republic of Parkdale | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 04 March 2008 04:19 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
watched therapists destroy my mother's self esteem as they told her his problems were because she left our father - living in an abusive situation would have obviously solved all the problems.

Jesus Christ! I see the ghost of Bruno Bettlehiem still haunts the medical profession.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14858

posted 04 March 2008 04:42 PM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
There is absolutely no evidence of any structural or neurochemical differences in people that have diagnosis of ADHD nor is there any biological tests or markers to determine if someone has this "disorder." It is possible that there are subtle neurological differences in some children that do impact attention, however the explosion of this diagnosis is a cause for concern. It is also disconcerting that diagnosis are frequently made without considering other explanations.

Children who are survivors of a variety of traumas are going to display marked difficulties in focusing, attention and will experience hyperarousal and response to all manner of stimuli.

Food allegies and chemical sensitivities can also be components involved in what gets labelled ADHD.

It is important to know that it is psychiatry's default position to blame the brain and claim that there is a neurochemical imbalance despite the fact that they have never empirically demonstrated one. Ritalin sales are also a massive market for pharmaceutical companies and aggressive promotion of "diagnostic" programs has been a wonder for sales.


I have seen electrochemical brain scans and they do show increased activity in the brains of some of these children.

Children are also experiencing an increase in food allergies and environmental sensitivity; is that the fault of the pharmaceutical industry?

I agree we are often too quick with the pills, which is why I cited two personal experiences that argue for and against medication.


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
N.R.KISSED
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1258

posted 04 March 2008 05:27 PM      Profile for N.R.KISSED     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I have seen electrochemical brain scans and they do show increased activity in the brains of some of these children.

what they don't say about the brain scan research is that the subjects they are using are almost uniformly on ritalin, somewhat of a confounding variable. Even putting that aside a brain scan really says nothing about etiology, as I mentioned there are various sources of hyperarousal.

quote:
Children are also experiencing an increase in food allergies and environmental sensitivity; is that the fault of the pharmaceutical industry?

Food allegies and chemical sensitivities are alternate sources of physiological or neurological arousal it is the fault of the pharmaceutical industry to suggest that drugs be used to address these sources.

I am not suggesting that you are pro-drug I am only pointing out the role that the pharmaceutical companies have in promoting psychiatric labelling and dubious research.


From: Republic of Parkdale | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14858

posted 04 March 2008 05:31 PM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:

I am not suggesting that you are pro-drug I am only pointing out the role that the pharmaceutical companies have in promoting psychiatric labelling and dubious research.

I agree with you 100%!


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Sineed
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11260

posted 04 March 2008 05:43 PM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for your posts, RF.

I'm ADHD, inattentive type. When I was a child, I was constantly being berated for not paying attention. My parents were told I lacked self-discipline and focus, I was called a "space cadet" all the time and was bullied mercilessly to the point where the principal of the school called an assembly.

Our problem is too much attention, really; I get distracted by everything, all the time.

I'm not sure I call it a disorder, though. It's a different way of being wired, really, as it is more of a problem for other people than it is for me. I can multitask faster and better than neurotypicals, and my reflexes are phenomenal. And I'm good in a crisis. But I suck at paperwork and taking phone messages. I would be a terrible secretary. ADHD people make great firefighters, journalists, paramedics, or other fast-paced jobs. We loathe sitting behind desks.


From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
1234567
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14443

posted 04 March 2008 06:03 PM      Profile for 1234567     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I'm not sure I call it a disorder, though. It's a different way of being wired, really, as it is more of a problem for other people than it is for me.

I agree with this. My brother is just as you describe yourself Sineed. He always got in trouble at school for "daydreaming" He used to tell me that he tried to pay attention but the stuff he was thinking about was much better than what he was supposed to be listening to.

He was always go go go and where we grew up, there was plenty to do so I think it kinda helped him in that way. Now, he's married to a very organized and orderly type of person and she keeps him grounded and he keeps her going.

He's just a happy guy. Are you happy Sineed? I know it's a funny question but honestly, the people I know who are like my brother are usually alot happier than most people.


From: speak up, even if your voice shakes | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
Sineed
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11260

posted 04 March 2008 06:35 PM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
He always got in trouble at school for "daydreaming" He used to tell me that he tried to pay attention but the stuff he was thinking about was much better than what he was supposed to be listening to.
It's a huge problem when you're going to be tested on the material later.

The happiness question: I have anxiety problems related to a constant, nagging feeling I'm forgetting something important. I have sleep problems even though I'm not currently on the meds.

[ 05 March 2008: Message edited by: Sineed ]


From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sineed
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11260

posted 05 March 2008 03:23 AM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Medication for ADHD is controversial, and it should be. At my kids' school, some teachers have a propensity for labelling all lively children, especially boys, as ADHD. As I work in drug addiction treatment, I see a brisk street trade in Ritalin: some of my patients will get scripts for it, and sell it to buy crack.

OTOH, the meds help some kids get through school.

I'm not sure about taking the meds long-term, however. The condition is life-long, and you have to learn how to compensate for it, basically organizing your life in a certain way. And accepting that you will always be losing sunglasses, umbrellas, gloves, etc.

In general, this diagnosis can, kinda paradoxically, make kids feel there's nothing wrong with them.


From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 05 March 2008 03:40 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I sometimes wonder whether both sides are right in this debate.

I have wondered whether ADD and ADHD is simply a word for people who organize their thoughts differently and have different types of energy than the norm. It's been pathologized as a disorder that needs to be treated, because the world is organized in a certain way that people with ADHD and ADD find it very difficult to conform. Especially in school, and when it comes to behavioural norms that most people consider to be proper to teach children while raising them.

But as Sineed says, there are jobs and careers where the characteristics of ADD and ADHD can be used to an advantage. And I think most people do realize that our one-size-fits-all teaching methods in school doesn't even fit everyone who falls within "normal" range, and doesn't accommodate any but the most traditional of learning styles.

I guess the problem is, as Sineed says, whether you fall on the "it's biology" or "it's a made up diagnosis" side of the debate, people have to function in THIS society, and not the one we wish we had (although it's good to work towards that).

I think there IS a huge problem, however, with overdiagnosing ADD and ADHD for the convenience of parents and teachers, and medicating children who could try, through therapy or through accommodation, to learn how to deal with their different ways of learning and thinking, and figure out how to use them to their advantage.

Of course, that would require actual support in the school system, and it would require teachers to stop pretending to be psychiatrists and recommending drugs to parents. (I think that should be cracked down upon a lot more, by the way.) It would also require the school system to be more creative - teachers can't change the system alone, when they're expected to "teach to the test" and are constrained by restrictive curriculum.

[ 05 March 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Caissa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12752

posted 05 March 2008 03:45 AM      Profile for Caissa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was diagnosed with ADHD around 7 or 8 and took medication to treat it until I was 19. I still struggle with some of the symptoms, especially impulsivity, when I am tired.
From: Saint John | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca