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Author Topic: Prince of Pot loses as Canada wrongly folds to U.S. fascist excess
bliter
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posted 16 January 2008 05:20 PM      Profile for bliter   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Editorial says, enforce the marijuana laws or remove them:

Canada shirks duty


From: delta | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
saga
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posted 17 January 2008 01:03 PM      Profile for saga   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bliter:
Editorial says, enforce the marijuana laws or remove them:

Canada shirks duty


Why the "money laundering" charge? Anyone know?
Was he selling to organized crime?

I have some sympathy for Marc on the issue of marijuana. However, I would not have chosen to make a martyr of myself to the cause as he has and I am not sure it is benefiting the 'movement' to legalize: Jail is just jail and people forget you are even there. I am not seeing a swell of public outrage for him, unfortunately.


From: Canada | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
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posted 17 January 2008 01:18 PM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That fifteen minutes of fame hardly seems worth all that time behind bars. As with all things in the bilateral relationship between Canada and the US, Canada is overly preocupied with not embarrasing the US over their draconian laws and punishments. If he didn't accept this deal, he'd be undoubtedly handed over by the puppets that govern us.
From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 17 January 2008 02:56 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree with the jist of the editorial, but I have a quibble with this:

quote:
This is an unacceptable situation. It's time for Canadian authorities to accept their responsibility by either enforcing the laws on the books or removing them altogether.

If by "authorities" he means police, then they can enforce the law but not remove laws.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
bliter
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posted 17 January 2008 03:07 PM      Profile for bliter   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would call it, cruel and unusual punishment - political punishment, if you will. As stated, the five years, without parole, is equivalent to a 15-year sentence having been handed down.

From the article:

quote:
...Yet appearances can be deceiving. Since his conviction in 1998, Emery has brazenly continued selling seeds, yet police have done nothing about it. Nor have they tried to stop other seed dealers.

The police can hardly be blamed for their inaction, though, since the Canadian government has signalled that it doesn't consider Emery's actions illegal. After all, the feds were directing medical marijuana users to Emery's website until 2003.

Regardless of what the courts or the Criminal Code say, then, the government has de facto legalized the sale of marijuana seeds, and the first condition for extradition has not been met.


Whatever one's feelings about marijuana, Marc Emery deserves support in his battle for justice against this hypocrisy.


From: delta | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
Slumberjack
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posted 17 January 2008 05:53 PM      Profile for Slumberjack     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bliter:
I would call it, cruel and unusual punishment - political punishment, if you will. As stated, the five years, without parole, is equivalent to a 15-year sentence having been handed down.

Cruel, unusual, and highly political, based on laws formulated through ignorant popular opinion, and the desire of US proscecutors and judges to get re-elected.


From: An Intensive De-Indoctrination, But I'm Fine Now | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
saga
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posted 17 January 2008 06:08 PM      Profile for saga   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have to ask again, but zi don't think we know:
How much of that is for 'money laundering' and what is that about?

Maybe I have answered it ... if he is selling seeds to growers (considered criminals) then the money they paid him is considered crime profits being 'laundered'?
Is that it? Anybody know?

Just curious.


From: Canada | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 17 January 2008 09:59 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's not five years without parole. It's ten years, but he must serve five before he's eligible for parole.

Babblers will be relieved to learn, however, that Emery will rot in prision for the full ten years unless in five years' time he can persuade the Parole Board that he believes selling marijuana seeds is evil, that he regrets having done it, and that he will never do it again.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 18 January 2008 02:04 AM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by saga:
I have to ask again, but zi don't think we know:
How much of that is for 'money laundering' and what is that about?

Maybe I have answered it ... if he is selling seeds to growers (considered criminals) then the money they paid him is considered crime profits being 'laundered'?
Is that it? Anybody know?

Just curious.


Perhaps they figure he used the proceeds from illegal sales of seeds to fund legit aspects of his store and mail-order system, declaring it as taxable income in some other (legal) aspect of the business?

[ 18 January 2008: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
marzo
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posted 18 January 2008 10:32 AM      Profile for marzo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I bought seeds from MEmery several times. He sold a wide variety at really good prices.
Marijuana should be fully legal. It has proven benefits as an analgesic and anti-nausea medicine and I know this from first-hand experience. Even when people use mj for pleasure the effects are far less deleterious than alcohol or tobacco and it is not physically addictive.
I can't help but notice that many of the people who despise marijuana users and label them as 'pathetic', as Michael Coren does, or as 'dangerous addicts' are often the same people who defend gun ownership like it was some kind of 'sacred moral virtue'.

From: toronto | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Proaxiom
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posted 18 January 2008 11:10 AM      Profile for Proaxiom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Marijuana has less deleterious effects than tobacco?

Really?

----

Not that I disagree that marijuana should be legalized. So should all drugs. Legalized and regulated. Marijuana should be treated the same way as tobacco under the law. Discouraged, heavily taxed, criminal to provide to minors, but available for those who want it.

Harder drugs should have more restrictive regulations, but still be legally available.


From: East of the Sun, West of the Moon | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 18 January 2008 11:38 AM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Marijuana has less deleterious effects than tobacco?

Really?


Heroin is better for you than cigarettes are, speaking purely from a physiological standpoint. Marijuana doesn't even register as a health risk. Excessive sugar intake is more harmful.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 07 March 2008 05:53 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Looks as if Emery's plea bargain deal is in trouble.
quote:
The so-called Prince of Pot's extradition case was put over yesterday until April 9 at the request of his lawyer and a federal prosecutor representing the U.S. Justice Department.

No reason was given but Mr. Emery said outside B.C. Supreme Court that there's a disagreement about the legality of the deal in Canada.

Mr. Emery said that in the U.S. system a non-violent first-time offender like him would normally be released in about 20 months, but American authorities refuse to accept that.

He said the U.S. wants a Canadian judge to be bound by the agreement for a minimum prison sentence, he said.

"What's at stake is the Canadian prosecutorial service doesn't think that it's possible to make a deal where a Canadian judge is compelled to do something specific, like put me in jail for a minimum length of time or set some kind of parole date," he said.

"The Canadian government says that's not legal in Canada and that's what they've told the U.S. prosecution and so the Justice Department in the United States is saying that our deal's not possible - that they have to actually put in writing - because the Canadians aren't playing ball, so to speak."…

The deal being negotiated would see him convicted on both sides of the border, Mr. Emery said. He would serve three to six months in a U.S. prison before being transferred to a Canadian institution for the balance of his sentence.

Mr. Emery said he finds the whole process odd.

"The Canadian government could just have me charged and that would lay the matter to rest and they wouldn't have to be concerned because some judge would come to a determination as to whether I should be incarcerated," he said.

"This to me is more like collaboration with the United States. It's like outsourcing our justice system to the United States.

"I don't consider I should have to go to jail at all. I'm doing this to save my two co-accused and to somewhat resolve the matter."



From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
viigan
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posted 08 March 2008 06:43 AM      Profile for viigan     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"...it is not physically addictive."

Regular use of marijuana leads to withdrawal symptoms on cessation. I think that pretty much suggests a physical dependence. Regular use can also affect your body in a variety of ways including infertility and hormonal imbalances.
It also has a negative impact on your liver much in the way that alcohol does.
I understand the desire for it's legalization, to a certain extent, but please don't try selling the idea on the basis that its fucking vitamin C.


From: here | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 08 March 2008 03:59 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by viigan:
"...it is not physically addictive."

Regular use of marijuana leads to withdrawal symptoms on cessation. I think that pretty much suggests a physical dependence. Regular use can also affect your body in a variety of ways including infertility and hormonal imbalances.
It also has a negative impact on your liver much in the way that alcohol does.
I understand the desire for it's legalization, to a certain extent, but please don't try selling the idea on the basis that its fucking vitamin C.


Your 'withdrawal' symptoms of maryjane are psychological. Psychological addiction != physical addiction.

I've never heard anything about the liver. I'd really like to see you cite something there.


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 03 April 2008 04:07 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
There’s a massive cloud of cannabis confusion hovering around Marc Emery’s extradition case now that the deal between the Prince of Pot and U.S. prosecutors has hit the skids.

Under the now-defunct arrangement, Emery’s two co-accused, Greg Williams and Michelle Rainey, would have gone free while he served five years in Canada on U.S. charges of shipping marijuana seeds stateside.

Now, as Emery heads to another round of extradition hearings April 9, his lawyers will be armed with a new and startling precedent.

On March 7, the BC Court of Appeal upheld West Coast seed breeder Dan Kostantin’s 30-day sentence for shipping seeds to the U.S. The Crown had sought 15 to 18 months, a bid quashed by the court in a unanimous decision.

Now Emery’s lawyers will argue it would be cruel and unusual punishment to extradite the pot activist to a U.S. justice system that could mete out a 30-year sentence. And that raises the question many in the anti-prohibition movement have been asking for some time: Why hasn’t the Crown charged Emery here? Are prosecutors afraid a homegrown judge would rule too leniently?
….

Some observers say prosecuting the trio here would mean the U.S. would forfeit its chance to get at them, and that Emery would likely cop only 15 to 18 months here compared to decades south of the border.
….

Fear of sharing Emery’s fate is fading fast amongst seed banks and breeders relieved by the March 7 ruling. There’s widespread feeling that the Prince’s charges are deeply political and not much of a problem for under-the-reefer-radar seed entrepreneurs. Much to the cops’, Crown’s and Conservatives’ chagrin, seed selling stateside via the Net is making a huge comeback. “If it weren’t for the States, you wouldn’t make money,” says Kostantin. – Source



From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Le Téléspectateur
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posted 03 April 2008 05:01 PM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Emery also paid taxes on all seed sales to CRA and listed the business as what it was, a marijuana seed selling company.

If what Emery did was illegal enough to deport him to a 10 year sentence why does Canada get to keep its cut of the profits?


From: More here than there | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 03 April 2008 06:17 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Even illegal income is taxable under the Income Tax Act.

That's how the US nailed Al Capone.

[ 03 April 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Le Téléspectateur
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posted 03 April 2008 06:28 PM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's such a great contradiction. Kind of comparable to the Green Party's idea of taxing pollution, or the commonly accepted idea of taxing smokes, slots and liquor. How can a government on one hand claim to be reducing something (crime, pollution, "vice") while at the same time relying on the same thing for its income?

I guess we can look to the example of Capone for the direction of policy: legalize, privatize, monopolize, capitalize. Cha-ching.


From: More here than there | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 03 April 2008 07:18 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Le Téléspectateur:
How can a government on one hand claim to be reducing something (crime, pollution, "vice") while at the same time relying on the same thing for its income?
You mean like anti-smoking campaigns combined with tobacco taxes?

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Farmpunk
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posted 04 April 2008 02:49 AM      Profile for Farmpunk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Marzo: "I can't help but notice that many of the people who despise marijuana users and label them as 'pathetic', as Michael Coren does, or as 'dangerous addicts' are often the same people who defend gun ownership like it was some kind of 'sacred moral virtue'."

This is a rather wide gap to jump, isn't it? Or do we just hang out with different gun owners?

Emery could not have believed that he would be protected by the government on this. He was flaunting his business in the face of the US, knowing full well that he was running a federal risk. I think Emery was spoiling for a fight and once it happened, he wanted out. Now he's in trouble and wants help. Surely Emery didn't believe that falling back on the system would save him in the War On Drugs. He should have known better.


From: SW Ontario | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Farmpunk
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posted 04 April 2008 02:59 AM      Profile for Farmpunk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Spector:
Originally posted by Le Téléspectateur:
How can a government on one hand claim to be reducing something (crime, pollution, "vice") while at the same time relying on the same thing for its income?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You mean like anti-smoking campaigns combined with tobacco taxes?

Good point. Or how about anti-smoking campaigns combined with tobacco taxes and an open border that allows "Canadian Made with Canadian Tobacco" cigs to be manufactured with foreign tobacco, brought into the country without any Food Inspection or Health Canada regulation, or import duty, and sold by companies that the gov then turns around and invests in to fund pension plans.

Oh, and contraband cigs don't exist.


From: SW Ontario | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 15 April 2008 03:46 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
B.C. marijuana activist Marc Emery could be sent to the United States to face drug trafficking charges early next year.

Emery is accused, along with Greg Williams and Michelle Rainey, of distributing millions of dollars worth of marijuana seeds in the U.S. American authorities have been seeking their extradition since 2005.

After a hearing in B.C. Supreme Court on [April 9], the extradition process will be back in court in December and lawyers suggested another set of hearings in February.


CBC

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged

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