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Author Topic: Masturbatory Engineering
glennB
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posted 16 April 2003 07:31 AM      Profile for glennB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hope I am not being too bold with this topic. Just something of a curiosity to me what people's thoughts are on the subject.

Found myself returning to this activity of early-adolescence with my partner out of town. Now immediately I felt incredible guilty - but I am wondering, why? Does anyone know if there is a religious restriction on it, or just social? And is it really a religious no-no, or just according to what we pick up in pop-religion (which is usually inaccurate like pop-politics, or pop-psychology.)

Is it okay since you're (supposedly) not harming anyone, but on the contrary relieving a bit of, er, tension.

Once again I apologise if the topic is offensive to anyone.

[I'm only offended by poor spelling - audra]

[ 16 April 2003: Message edited by: audra estrones ]


From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
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posted 16 April 2003 10:51 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think most Xtian religions have a bit of a downer on "jerkin' your gherkin", but I'm not sure that many of them make it public enemy #1 anymore. There's also some kind of story in the Bible of a chap named Onan who spilled his seed upon the ground and wasted it, but I guess that was before we discovered that there's about a trillion quintillion spermies in every, err, release.

So is it "OK"? Well, I can't speak for any Gods or Goddesses, but as they say, if God didn't mean for you to play "handle the candle", then why do your arms stop right where they do? Clearly it's meant as one of life's little freebies.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 16 April 2003 11:58 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This has been a controversial topic within western religion over the millenia, but after some diligent research, I think that the current position of the Catholic Church is best articulated here.
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy Shanks
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posted 16 April 2003 12:12 PM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry, I had a hard time reading that link with my failing eyesight. I also have this strange pelt on the palms of my hands that makes using a computer difficult.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 16 April 2003 12:12 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't suppose it ever harmed anybody to, er, "release" one's self

From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ben_al
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posted 16 April 2003 12:13 PM      Profile for ben_al     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hahahaha that's hilarious oldgoat
From: Kitchener, ON | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
glennB
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posted 16 April 2003 12:36 PM      Profile for glennB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The consensus seems to be that jerkin' isn't that big a deal. Is it even a social taboo anymore? Or are people that believe that just ol' fogees who need to get with the times?

Well, is anything a social taboo these days. Or unacceptable on any grounds: moral, religious, legal?

Also interesting that we haven't heard from any of the ladies on this. Would you lose repect for a male that is a chronic "puller"?


From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Alix
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posted 16 April 2003 02:31 PM      Profile for Alix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Would you lose respect for a woman who masturbated while her partner was out of town? This isn't a male-only activity, ya know.

Or, more personally, would I be offended if my partner masturbated while I was away? Absolutely not. I would say if I was around, and that was the only sexual activity he was interested in, then we might have a problem. But otherwise?


From: Kingston | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 17 April 2003 02:33 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought this thread was going to be about the Ford Motor Company........

I guess like anything else, if taken to obsessive levels it can interfere with your relationship (s) with other people.

But in the main, any sex educator I've heard talk about it says there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, I think Sue (sorry, drawing a blank on her last name) of "The Sunday Night Sex Show" fame recomends masterbation.

I'm guessing, but like Sue, I tend to think people who masterbate probably have a fairly creative fantasy life, and that can be a positive influence on the part of one's sex life that includes others.

I'm not a formal expert, but exerience should "grandfather" me into some kind of equivelent degree by now I should think.

Happy to lend a hand.


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 17 April 2003 02:34 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Figuratively!

[ 17 April 2003: Message edited by: TommyPaineatWork ]


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googlymoogly
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posted 17 April 2003 12:43 PM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
most mainstream Christian groups, at least, won't "counsel" someone or disassociate them anymore for doing it (I wonder how these groups would find out if someone was mastrbating? ) But members of my family have had experience with one group that published a book on how their faith relates to teenagers; this book included an entire chapter on why masturbation is a sin (this book was made at least a decade ago but is still in wide distribution among members of the faith).

I dunno; maybe spouses have ratted people out or something; I wouldn't know

[ 17 April 2003: Message edited by: googlymoogly ]


From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
shelby9
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posted 17 April 2003 12:59 PM      Profile for shelby9     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What you do behind closed doors is between you and whomever you call God. If you feel guilty about it, then speak to your higher spiritual authority about it. I have no personal knowledge that this type of activity is frowned upon by the Church, but then it's not something you usually bring up during Sunday service!

HOWEVER, if you are doing this to relieve, um, frustration while your BOYFRIEND/GIRLFRIEND is away.... the implications that you are sleeping with someone who is not your WEDDED partner - THAT the Church might take issue with.

Now then, I'm not a Minister or otherwise associated with the Chirch, so I have no problem with this activity. I think the guilty feeling talked about comes from the idea that it was taboo and simply not talked about back when you were a teenager, and has little to do with is being a sin, as it were. Did Mommy tell you not to do that? Did you get caught at it at some point?


From: Edmonton, AB | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
glennB
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posted 17 April 2003 01:20 PM      Profile for glennB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
a) Want to make a request for diversity. Could anyone with information of how other faith-groups see this issue share?

b) What about the question of virtues? As in, pleasuring yourself always involves lust. Now I know that the larger question may be - why is lust bad? But if we accept that it is something we wouldn't recommend (like sloth, gluttony or envy) where does that leave us?

c) Does the behaviour make any rabblers crazy because it's like eating a chocolate cake? You know you shouldn't be doing it, you don't want to do it, but you can't stop yourself. And since it's not as serious as murder it's harder to find the motivation to stop.

[ 17 April 2003: Message edited by: glennB ]


From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
googlymoogly
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posted 17 April 2003 01:32 PM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
this should help
Just a start

From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Tommy Shanks
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posted 17 April 2003 03:14 PM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Does the behaviour make any rabblers crazy because it's like eating a chocolate cake? You know you shouldn't be doing it, you don't want to do it, but you can't stop yourself."

Shouldn't be doing it? Don't want to? Why on Gods green earth not. Its fun, harmless, and gratifying. Nothing like a 15 minute "Gentleman's coffee break". As long as it doesn't take away from your relationships than have at it. They don't call it a joy-stick for nothing.

Never, never, understood this guilt stuff.


"And since it's not as serious as murder it's harder to find the motivation to stop."

One of the most lyrical expressions for this activity is "swinging the kitten hammer". For as every church-addled 12 year old boy knows God looks down on this activity so much He removes a kitten to heaven every single time you flog the dolphin.

[ 17 April 2003: Message edited by: Tommy Shanks ]
Edit: Stupid quotes won't work

[ 17 April 2003: Message edited by: Tommy Shanks ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
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posted 17 April 2003 03:28 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
But if we accept that it is something we wouldn't recommend (like sloth, gluttony or envy) where does that leave us?

In the 15th century, when sloth was actually a sin?

quote:
For as every church-addled 12 year old boy knows God looks down on this activity so much He removes a kitten to heaven every single time you flog the dolphin.

edited to add:
Wha?..huh?? All this time I thought that every time I "dated Palmela Handerson", an angel got its wings!

[ 17 April 2003: Message edited by: Mr. Magoo ]


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy Shanks
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posted 17 April 2003 04:13 PM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
In the 15th century, when sloth was actually a sin?

Well, if you laid around naked all day playing with yourself, eating cheetos and drinking root-beer, I guess that would be considered sloth.

hate to go to the doctor though. "Ah, sir has your penis always had this orange, dusty appearance?"


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
dale cooper
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posted 17 April 2003 04:21 PM      Profile for dale cooper     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
hate to go to the doctor though. "Ah, sir has your penis always had this orange, dusty appearance?"

And just imagine how that Chester the Cheetah fellow would react.


From: Another place | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
googlymoogly
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posted 17 April 2003 05:02 PM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In my house, when I was little, my parents gave me one of those children's books about sex (you know, where they tell you that to make babies, the husbandand the wife lie very very close together, yadda yadda yadda....; anyway, they had a page about masturbation, and being very small, and not knowing how my parents would react. I asked them what masturbation was, and was told that I was never to mention it again, because it was "dirty". That just made me intrigued even more . Never looked back, myself

I think the same kind of thing goes for anything else, like drinking, or smoking pot, or whatever.


From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
glennB
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posted 17 April 2003 10:30 PM      Profile for glennB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks to Googlymoogle for the link, it's a very useful reference.

quote:
Never, never, understood this guilt stuff.

Your understanding it or not doesn't make the way I feel about it any less legitimate. And I doubt that I am alone on this.

While it is impossible to develop an entire ethical argument here, can't the pedophile present the same line of defence that you are? While he is sitting in jail he can utter the same words: I don't know what the problem is. Some of those puritans see it as wrong, but I don't see why I can't have my fun.

quote:
For as every church-addled 12 year old boy knows God looks down on this activity so much He removes a kitten to heaven every single time you flog the dolphin.

If the suggestion in the last few threads is that the guilt stems just from immaturity - I am not sure that I agree.

Also I don't see how church-attendance, or religious convictions are likened to being addled. While I don't even attend, I still think it's offensive to speak about it in pejorative terms.

To think that there is only one correct view of sexual ethics or sexual behaviour, I believe, is a position of far more ignorance, and even intolerance. To ridicule others for there religious practices -- well we can leave it others on the board to help us there.

[ 17 April 2003: Message edited by: glennB ]


From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 17 April 2003 11:15 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks be to Audra, for correcting the spelling! You've saved the lives of SEVERAL kittens.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
redshift
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posted 18 April 2003 02:17 AM      Profile for redshift     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'll think about a little pussy everytime from now on, i promise....
From: cranbrook,bc | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
janew
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posted 18 April 2003 09:25 AM      Profile for janew     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Also interesting that we haven't heard from any of the ladies on this. Would you lose repect for a male that is a chronic "puller"?

Nope. But the 'no double standard rule' applies here too


From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 18 April 2003 10:10 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ah, but I think there is a 'double standard', for good reason-- but maybe this is based on ignorance of female sexuality-- if so, I'll be happy to be corrected.

I remember a number of times durring my marriage when having kids around and working shift meant that opportunities for my wife and I to have sex were infrequent and catch as catch can. So, a few times, faced with the prospect of a whole day without sex and growing need for relief, I took matters to hand.

Only to have the kids all of a sudden depart, and then having to face an amourous spouse. Most times that didn't make any difference, but I wonder if it would now that I'm 44?

That's where I think "guilt" can creep in to secular masterbation-- if it takes away from your sex life with your significant other, it's akin to having an affair.

I'm under the assumption that masturbation does little to reduce the ability or desire in women, but perhaps I'm wrong about that. If not, then women can be unabashed chronic...pushers(?) and therefore a double standard arises?


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Steve N
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posted 18 April 2003 03:23 PM      Profile for Steve N     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Learning to love yourself is the greatest love of all.
From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
janew
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posted 18 April 2003 06:55 PM      Profile for janew     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
That's where I think "guilt" can creep in to secular masterbation-- if it takes away from your sex life with your significant other, it's akin to having an affair.

How interesting. I've never thought of masturbation as being anything like having an affair...or anything to feel guilty about, for that matter.

I guess if someone is spending so much time with their 'significant self' that they haven't got enough time for their 'significant other', then that would definitely be a problem...but I think that would indicate there may be a problem in the relationship itself. Just like when sports, friends, work, politics etc. doesn't leave you enough time or energy for your partner. It's not that they're evil, it's just that you have to think about your priorities if other things are interferring too much in your relationship.

As far as masturbating decreasing female interest in sex, I actually think the opposite is true...but I assumed that was the case with men too. Am I wrong?

[ 18 April 2003: Message edited by: janew ]


From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 18 April 2003 08:37 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
As far as masturbating decreasing female interest in sex, I actually think the opposite is true...but I assumed that was the case with men too. Am I wrong?

No, I wouldn't say you are. As the good old Buzzcocks put it, it's a habit that sticks.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 19 April 2003 12:19 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
As far as masturbating decreasing female interest in sex, I actually think the opposite is true...but I assumed that was the case with men too. Am I wrong?


I think that varries from man to man, and might vary with age, also.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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