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Author Topic: Durban 2 again: Now the NDP flip flops flip flops
johnpauljones
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posted 24 June 2008 05:01 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
According to today's national post the NDP has once again flip flopped on Durban 2. You will recall they called for participation then changed their mind. Then changed their mind again.

Well wait for it now once again the NDP has changed their mind and will NOT agree to participate in Durban 2.

Layton backtracks on UN racism conference

quote:
OTTAWA - An internal caucus revolt has forced NDP leader Jack Layton to revise his party's position for a second time on Canada's participation at the United Nations conference on racism, to be held in Geneva next year.

A delegation of eight angry MPs told Mr. Layton the NDP's call for Canada to take part in an event critics fear will degenerate into an anti-Semitic hatefest risks alienating the party's traditional blue-collar voting base.



From: City of Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 24 June 2008 05:11 AM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:
According to today's national post

In other words, a grossly inaccurate characterisation, which is best taken with a grain of salt pending reports from reputable sources.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 24 June 2008 06:18 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Aristotleded24:

In other words, a grossly inaccurate characterisation, which is best taken with a grain of salt pending reports from reputable sources.


Generally speaking, I'd agree - but here's my anxiety:

When the original Dewar-Marston statement supporting Harper's boycott was published on ndp.ca, I wrote to protest (as I know many others did). It was removed from the site.

I then wrote to my MP asking what the party's position was, and of course strongly urging that they repudiate Harper's boycott. For the very first time, I never received a reply. That was in February.

When the Kinsella thing appeared, I wrote again to my MP, asking if it was legitimate, and saying I hoped it was and praising the decision.

The reply I received was from an assistant (no problem with that), but it was weird. It said something like: "Please see this article in the National Post." That, of course, was the NP article bemoaning the NDP having taken the right stand at last.

I have never before been referred by the NDP to a National Post article for explanation of the NDP's position on an issue.

That's why I'm not prepared to dismiss the article referenced in the OP quite so quickly as I normally would. The NDP has never said one damned thing about Durban on ndp.ca since yanking the Dewar-Marston diatribe. My MP refers me to the NP for information. What is one to do in these troubled times?

Anyway, if what is said about Tom Mulcair is correct, I'm through with him.

By the way, the references to his "Jewish wife" are disgusting and typical of anti-Semites like those at the NP. The same was the case with Bob Rae. I had a Jewish mother. And father too. That didn't prevent me from being anti-racist and having a clear mind about Israel's crimes against humanity. I rather think I culled the best from that tradition and I try to embody it in my life.

[ 24 June 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


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unionist
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posted 24 June 2008 10:05 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

Samira Laaouni is the NDP candidate in Bourassa. The National Post article says there is "discomfort in caucus" with her candidacy, followed by innuendo that this is because of her employment with the Canadian Islamic Congress and its support for Hezbollah etc.

The entire reference is typical Post smear journalism - but has anyone heard of anything remotely confirming such an allegation?


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Fidel
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posted 24 June 2008 10:15 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
unionists' love-hate affair with the NDP reminds me of those James Brown performances where they end up having to carry him off the stage.
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johnpauljones
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posted 24 June 2008 11:36 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

Samira Laaouni is the NDP candidate in Bourassa. The National Post article says there is "discomfort in caucus" with her candidacy, followed by innuendo that this is because of her employment with the Canadian Islamic Congress and its support for Hezbollah etc.

The entire reference is typical Post smear journalism - but has anyone heard of anything remotely confirming such an allegation?


I have not heard about Ms. Laaouni but I did hear about Hayder Moussa "stepping down" from my riding association president.


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Stockholm
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posted 24 June 2008 11:39 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The article says the following about this guy:

quote:
Mr. Lavigne said Mr. Moussa was asked to resign from his position with the NDP some weeks ago after the party learned of a controversial poem he had written, in which he was accused of labelling non-Muslim women as promiscuous drunks.

I don't see how the NDP could tolerate someone who would write such a thing holding any official position in the party.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 24 June 2008 11:40 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
unionists' love-hate affair with the NDP reminds me of those James Brown performances where they end up having to carry him off the stage.

Tell me Fidel, did you change your mind about Durban II every time the NDP did? Doesn't that create excessive wear and tear? Where do you get your replacement parts? Or do you just make do without?


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kropotkin1951
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posted 24 June 2008 11:46 AM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This seems to be a Pat Martin leak. The writer quotes an unnamed MP first and then later quotes Martin as if he had been referred to earlier.

Nice smear job by the Nazi Post. The way the article is written it should have both supporters of Israel and supporters of Palestine pissed at the NDP. Mission accomplished.


From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
ohara
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posted 24 June 2008 03:05 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post
This gets curioser and curioser
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miles
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posted 24 June 2008 05:41 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is interesting. Could they be so stupid as to do this yet again.

To change ones mind is human. To keep chaning policy back and forth is idiotic

I emaild Jack today asking if it was true and am still waiting for an answer.


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Michelle
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posted 24 June 2008 05:57 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, because I'm so sure you guys want them to stand firm on their decision to support Durban.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
John K
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posted 24 June 2008 06:30 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post
The mischief making of the National Post aside, I don't see this as another flip flop. The NDP support for Canadian government participation in the upcoming Geneva anti-racism conference was always conditional on it not becoming a platform for anti-semitism.

And as far as there being diverse opinions in the parliamentary caucus, big deal. There are bound to be diverse opinions about such a complex and sensitive political issue in a caucus of 30 MPs.

What is most laughable about Ivison's spin is his accusation that the NDP is taking a position to gain an electoral advantage over its political rivals. Imagine that. Wonder why it's never occurred to the Conservatives and Liberals to take political positions for political advantage?


From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 24 June 2008 07:11 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by John K:
The NDP support for Canadian government participation in the upcoming Geneva anti-racism conference was always conditional on it not becoming a platform for anti-semitism.

It would be nice if the NDP actually stated this, or any other position, on the issue. If they have, I haven't seen it. And my questions to my MP have produced the pseudo-answers I recited above.

I have no difficulty with debates and divisions within caucus. This is not a trivial issue, and the party should take a clear-cut stand. At a minimum, they must condemn Harper for making Canada the first and only country to declare it will not attend.


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johnpauljones
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posted 25 June 2008 08:29 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Yes, because I'm so sure you guys want them to stand firm on their decision to support Durban.

As an NDP member I want them to stand for something and keep standing for it. I do not agree with all policies of NDP but guess what I respect the decision making process.

What I have seen is a farce. Miles hit the nail on the head. To change ones mind is human. but these continual flip flops is a kindergarten class.

These flips and flops open us up to accusations that like the liberals of chretien, martin and dion my party polls then acts.

and as a member of the party I will write or email or call to voice my displeasure.

If they change once that is normal. oops we made a mistake. or new info has come to light.


But this was the 4th announcement on this issue?

[ 25 June 2008: Message edited by: johnpauljones ]


From: City of Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
ohara
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posted 25 June 2008 07:02 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post
JPJ is a Dipper? Wow the world must certainly be ending!
From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 25 June 2008 07:43 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Anyway, if what is said about Tom Mulcair is correct, I'm through with him.

What was said and where?


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 25 June 2008 07:53 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by remind:

What was said and where?


In the Ivison article linked in the OP:

quote:
However, opposition from a group of senior NDP MPs, including deputy leader Thomas Mulcair and Winnipeg MP Pat Martin, has forced Mr. Layton to backpedal.

"It caused an uproar. A number of us went apes--t," said one MP.

...

Mr. Mulcair, whose wife is Jewish, did not return calls but he is understood to have been extremely upset with the decision to advocate Canada attend Durban 2, arguing that he would lose his Montreal riding of Outremont at the next election unless the position was reversed.


I know it's just rumour and innuendo. That's why I said IF it's true... Mulcair has shown pro-Israel leanings, which I guess is tolerable, but if this accusation is true, I will publicly tell him to fuck himself. His ambiguous replies to my questions have not been very confidence inspiring.

[ 25 June 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


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Brendan Stone
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posted 26 June 2008 07:38 AM      Profile for Brendan Stone   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What really happened at Durban?

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6667050

Peter Leibovitch interviews Anthony Shelton, CUPE executive assistant to Sid Ryan. Shelton attended the Durban I Conference in 2001, and relates his experiences.

[ 26 June 2008: Message edited by: Brendan Stone ]


From: Hamilton | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
laine lowe
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posted 26 June 2008 08:45 AM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thank you Brendan. That radio interview should be listened to in its entirety by everyone posting on this thread.

The diaries of participants that I read and the media (what little that wasn't biased) reported that reparations for slavery and rights for indigenous peoples (including Canada's treatment of Aboriginal people) were hot issues. Anthoni Shelton confirms these same observations and adds that the most hotly contentious incidents that were cited ad nauseum by western media occurred at break-out NGO meetings.

The Declaration does not single out the State of Israel as a racist state, which was the reason that Israel and the US gave for walking away from the conference. It was hotly debated but in the end, Canada managed to get such an article off the table.

Shelton also presents an interesting theory. He asks, "What are the issues that most cuts to the bone as far as racism in concerned in the Canadian context?" Canada's failure to deal with the racism that permeates the government's relationship with FN people is what he offers as an answer.

It's a fantastic interview. I could go on paraphrasing but I suggest you go to the source.


From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
johnpauljones
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posted 26 June 2008 10:17 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thank you Brendan for the link. So here is the billion dollar question -- why does the NDP keep changing its mind.

If Durban 1 is a cut and dry as my firend and colleague Anthony states why is it so hard for the NDP to choose a position?


From: City of Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged

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