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Author Topic: Anne Cools, even the Tories don't want her
Snuckles
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posted 01 July 2007 01:35 AM      Profile for Snuckles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
CanWest News Service
Published: Tuesday, June 26, 2007

OTTAWA -- Senator Anne Cools, a former Liberal who crossed the floor to join the Conservatives during the 2004 election campaign, has been turfed from Tory caucus after denouncing Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Senate government leader Marjory LeBreton in the upper chamber.

Senate government whip Terry Stratton said "it was just one thing after another" that led to Cools's removal, including her call for LeBreton's resignation in the red chamber, and her vote against the federal budget.


Read it here.


From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 01 July 2007 05:16 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Showing my age, I remember Anne Cools as a participant in the anti-racist sit-in at Sir George (1969) and going to jail for that, as well as being the first Black woman in the Senate. Unfortunately she also decided to morph into a vocal misognynist and homophobe over the years.
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 01 July 2007 06:01 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, if she has allienated the left and the right, I guess she won't get re-elected to the Senate next election. Makes you wonder how she got elected in the first place, doesn't it?

Bitter sarcasm aside, anyone who is so lacking in moral fibre and democratic principles to accept an appointment to the Senate in the first place should never be allowed near any decision making process.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 01 July 2007 06:22 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Showing my age, I remember Anne Cools as a participant in the anti-racist sit-in at Sir George (1969) and going to jail for that, as well as being the first Black woman in the Senate. Unfortunately she also decided to morph into a vocal misognynist and homophobe over the years.

She's been moving steadily rightwards -- if you will recall, she was president of the McGill Communist Club in those days. Then Liberal, then Conservative, now -- what?

From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
KenS
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posted 01 July 2007 07:00 AM      Profile for KenS     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Showing my national origins as well as my age [although the evidence would indicate I'm nowhere near as old as unionist]... my favourite rightward morpher is John Dos Passos.

Dos Pasos wrote a trilogy from the Depression called USA- in the vein of John Steinback. I'm not sure why it slipped into obscurity. Since I read it as a teenager I can't speak to it's literary merits. Maybe it was really didactic or something like that.

At any rate- it was rooted in the left socialist-populist mainstream of the time.

In the 1960s Dos Pasos was co-editor with William F. Buckley of the intellectual and very conservative National Review.

When Dos Pasos was asked to account for his shift in plitics he always answered:

"I haven't changed. It's the world that has changed."


From: Minasville, NS | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 01 July 2007 08:28 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think people are giving Anne cools far too much credit by talking about her in terms of thought out moves to the left and then right. I have been hearing stories for years about her being - shall we say - "non compis mentis".

I wonder if there is any mechanism to have someone removed from the Senate when it is patently clear that they are insane?


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 01 July 2007 03:59 PM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Who cares about removing people from their Senate seats? If they're nutty, I'd say that it's probably for the best that they stay there and continue to discredit the place.

[ 01 July 2007: Message edited by: Vansterdam Kid ]


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 01 July 2007 04:25 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
She didn't lose her seat, just her place in the Tory caucus. She can remain in the Senate as an independent until she reaches the retirement age.

Maybe she could sit as a Socred?

(Btw, how did she go from Communist to Liberal to Tory without every being NDP? Sounds like it was no great loss to the Dippers that she was never in their ranks, but you'd have thought she'd have passed through on her starboard turn.)


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
social democrat
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posted 01 July 2007 05:15 PM      Profile for social democrat        Edit/Delete Post
The Canadian Communist preference for the Liberals over the CCF/NDP is longstanding. Cools earned her Liberal spurs by losing a nomination to a Rosedale upper-crust white male, but then hanging in as a losing federal candidate in the two subsequent elections. If any NDP "ethnic candidates" did that, I would nominate them for the Senate myself.
From: Toronto | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 01 July 2007 06:21 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
I think people are giving Anne cools far too much credit by talking about her in terms of thought out moves to the left and then right. I have been hearing stories for years about her being - shall we say - "non compis mentis".

I wonder if there is any mechanism to have someone removed from the Senate when it is patently clear that they are insane?



Then maybe we could turf the whole lot of them.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Politics101
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posted 01 July 2007 06:31 PM      Profile for Politics101   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I have been hearing stories for years about her being - shall we say - "non compis mentis".

As one who has had some personal and family dealings with mental illness the next time I am in need of advice I will save the health care system some money and have all the experts on this site solve my problems.

Perhaps you would like to outline to us just what stories you have in your vast and superior range of knowledge for you to make such a wild statement.

If Senator Cools does indeed suffer from an illness we should be supporting her in seeking help if needed and supporting her making a full recovery.

I sometimes wonder where the humanistic spirit is in some of the dippers who post on these boards.

quote:
I wonder if there is any mechanism to have someone removed from the Senate when it is patently clear that they are insane?

Perhaps the same system should be used here on babble.

[ 01 July 2007: Message edited by: Politics101 ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 01 July 2007 06:35 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Indeed. There's no reason to reference mental health issues in regards to Senator Cools, especially since no one here has access to the woman's psychiatric history.

I hope that post is deleted by its poster.


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 01 July 2007 07:35 PM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Burch:
She didn't lose her seat, just her place in the Tory caucus. She can remain in the Senate as an independent until she reaches the retirement age.

I know that.


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 01 July 2007 08:39 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
If Senator Cools does indeed suffer from an illness we should be supporting her in seeking help if needed and supporting her making a full recovery.

I sometimes wonder where the humanistic spirit is in some of the dippers who post on these boards.

quote:I wonder if there is any mechanism to have someone removed from the Senate when it is patently clear that they are insane?

Perhaps the same system should be used here on babble.


Posting on babble cannot be juxtaposed with being one of 100 Senators and playing a major role in he governing of Canada and drawing a hefty salary paid for by the taxpayers.

Similarly, I can be very compassionate towards people with severe mental illness, but that doesn't mean that I want them performing open heart surgery on me, or piloting a 747 or having their finger on the trigger in a country with a nuclear arsenal.

Anne Cools is not just some benign, dotty Senator with very weird views. She has done very real harm. She has personally stalled progressive bills in the Senate by being the only voice against unanimous consent. She has made viciously hateful, homophobic speeches that would get her charged with hate crimes were in not for Parliamentary immunity from prosecution and she has led to a one woman crusade on behalf of so-called men's rights in custody battles etc...

It's easy to offer compassion to a person with severe mental illness when they are only hurting themselves - but what do we do when that person has a lifetime job with great power and responsibility and they are using that position in a totally malicious and malevolent way???

[ 01 July 2007: Message edited by: Stockholm ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Politics101
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posted 01 July 2007 09:54 PM      Profile for Politics101   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Stockholm - you continue to insinuate that Senator Cools has a mental illness - where is the proof?
quote:
I am not Bob Rae's therapist and I don't claim to know how his mind works
but you do seem to know how Senator Cools mind works.

[ 01 July 2007: Message edited by: Politics101 ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 01 July 2007 10:14 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vansterdam Kid:

I know that.


I just reread and realized the post you made that prompted my response to you was actually in response to a post made by someone else who was asking how someone could be removed from the Senate.
Sorry for any confusion my response may have caused.
BTW, does anyone know if a person CAN be permanently expelled from the Canadian Senate?


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Politics101
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posted 01 July 2007 10:23 PM      Profile for Politics101   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
does anyone know if a person CAN be permanently expelled from the Canadian Senate?

Wasn't there a case a few years ago of some senator who didn't show up the minimum number of times and the Senate tried to take some action - i think he finally saw the light and resigned. Updated may have reached 75 before action taken

Also what is the case of Senator Coger - wasn't he convicted of a criminal offense and was/is serving time - does he still have his seat. Updated - apparently resigned - no reason stated but PC Senator Eric Berntsen had to resigned because of criminal activity - check out this link for a list of Senators who have resigned prior to their required date.

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/compilations/Senate/Senate_VacanciesByResignation.aspx?Language=E


Ann Cools doesn't have to retire until 2018 - appointed by Trudeau so she has been around for few years and perhaps we will have to put up with her for a few more yet.

[ 01 July 2007: Message edited by: Politics101 ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 02 July 2007 05:55 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
One more thing we have Pierre Trudeau to thank for.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 02 July 2007 07:37 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay Stockholm, you have ignored ALL the calls for you to provide proof of your assertations that Cool's is "insane" and mentally deranged. You cannot go around stating such things about people. Please provide proof.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
KenS
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posted 02 July 2007 08:12 AM      Profile for KenS     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
When Stockholm raised this topic he referred to stories he ahd heard. He didn't repeat them, so what those are don't matter. What he said is that maybe she is not mentally competent, or pretty unstable, something like that.

That's not the same thing as saying someone is insane or has mental illnesses.

I know that in my life I'm always around someone who seems too unstable for what their role in life, but I know the difference between that and mental illness. IE, they may indeed have a mental illness, but I wouldn't know or attribute that from the unstable behaviour I see.


From: Minasville, NS | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 02 July 2007 08:36 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by KenS:
When Stockholm raised this topic he referred to stories he ahd heard. He didn't repeat them, so what those are don't matter. What he said is that maybe she is not mentally competent, or pretty unstable, something like that.

That's not the same thing as saying someone is insane or has mental illnesses.

I know that in my life I'm always around someone who seems too unstable for what their role in life, but I know the difference between that and mental illness. IE, they may indeed have a mental illness, but I wouldn't know or attribute that from the unstable behaviour I see.


Am not sure what you are trying to get at here but this is what stockholm said:

quote:
I think people are giving Anne cools far too much credit by talking about her in terms of thought out moves to the left and then right. I have been hearing stories for years about her being - shall we say - "non compis mentis".
I wonder if there is any mechanism to have someone removed from the Senate when it is patently clear that they are insane?

While not directly saying Cool's is insane, his statement of her being mentally in competant, followed by a question regarding insane Senator's is certainly casting the light that he believes she is and is inferring it to others.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
bohajal
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posted 02 July 2007 08:45 AM      Profile for bohajal   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Stockholm is only applying the principles of his masters' school of propaganda. Anyone from the other side of their point of view is mentally unstable.

Its is a postulate. No evidence required !


-.

[ 02 July 2007: Message edited by: bohajal ]


From: planet earth, I believe | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
bohajal
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posted 02 July 2007 09:08 AM      Profile for bohajal   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
but you do seem to know how Senator Cools mind works. politics101

Well, Stockholm does not know how Bob Rae's mind work but does know how Senator Cools' mind work. Maybe Stockholm saw a difference that others missed. Sen. Anne Cools is black and Bob Rae is white.

Activists in the area of racism will tell us volumes about "insanity", "mental instability", "maddness" "Blacks' red-eyededness" and such labels thrown at members of visible minorities who take an unpopular or unwanted stand.

Has Stockholm leveled such insinuations on white people here on Babble? No. But Bohajal and Anne Cools are visible minorities and he saw fit to do it.

Note: on another thread, today, STockholm asked me if I have forgot my pills and my anger management. He then went back, edited it and wrote something else. He knew that he might get caught with his racist propaganda.


-.

[ 02 July 2007: Message edited by: bohajal ]


From: planet earth, I believe | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
KenS
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posted 02 July 2007 09:46 AM      Profile for KenS     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I have to admitt I didn't remember this part:

quote:
I wonder if there is any mechanism to have someone removed from the Senate when it is patently clear that they are insane?

From: Minasville, NS | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 02 July 2007 11:26 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But Bohajal and Anne Cools are visible minorities and he saw fit to do it.

If you want to put yourself in the same category as a malevolent idiot like Anne Cools - that's your problem.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 02 July 2007 12:33 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Stockholm, you're missing the point. We'd all agree that Senator Cools is a vicious reactionary. What we've been trying to tell you is that it's insulting to people with mental health issues to make comments about Senator Cools alleged psychiatric issues when you know nothing of those alleged issues and when it's hardly an unchallengable point that they would explain her relentless swing to the Right. Most people who deal with mental health concerns don't become bigots and right-wing extremists.

[ 02 July 2007: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 02 July 2007 12:46 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Burch:
What we've been trying to tell you is that it's insulting to people with mental health issues to make comments about Senator Cools alleged psychiatric issues. Most people who deal with mental health concerns don't become bigots and right-wing extremists.

Not only that, you just can't go around labeling people as insane because you want to discredit them and to justify why the CPC kicked her out.

Also, not to make light of mental health issues, but are we sure of that?


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 02 July 2007 01:06 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And can we say for sure that the rest of the Senate is sane, for that matter?
From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
bohajal
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posted 02 July 2007 05:08 PM      Profile for bohajal   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
If you want to put yourself in the same category as a malevolent idiot like Anne Cools - that's your problem. -Stockholm

I am already in Canada's "visible minorities" category, along with Anne Cools. These visible minorities that Stockholm an other racists are quick to label as "mentally unstable", "insane" and similar labels when they take an unpopular and/or unwanted stand.

Have you ever, on Babble, thrown this kind of label to a white person ? No. (You said that you do not know how white Bob Rae's mind works but you seem to know how black Anne Cools' mind works).

Until you explain the discrepancy between your lack of knowledge about Bob Rae's mind and your "knowledge" about Anne Cools and Bohajal's minds (other than their skin colour), you remain the only racist still tolerated by Babble.

Stockholm: I have been active in the anti-racism field for more than 20 years. I am a certified cross-cultural communication and anti-racism trainer. I do believe I am capable of spotting racism.

.-

[ 02 July 2007: Message edited by: bohajal ]


From: planet earth, I believe | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
KenS
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posted 02 July 2007 05:24 PM      Profile for KenS     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's widely agreed that Stockholm routinely makes over the top statements.

That being the case, you'd have to make more of a survey of his comments before you could really say that he has only called you and Cools nutcases.

That Rae is white and doesn't get called nutcase is hardly compelling evidence. [Not to mention that Ujjal got the same treatment as Bob Rae.]

That doesn't mean Stock isn't a racist, and you're feree to say that motivates his comments.

But I'm not going to go along with the certainty you put into it.

Not to mention that I personally wouldn't assume anything from the names people use on Babble. Frankly, most of them sound weird to me and I wonder what is behind them.

I'd guess bohajal is south asisan, more or less, but I'd never bank on that being a direct reflection of reality.


From: Minasville, NS | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 02 July 2007 06:16 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Stockholm, as others have said here, making fun of someone you suspect to have a mental illness, and making armchair diagnoses with no proof (and then using it as a putdown) is not appropriate on babble.

bohojal, I see nothing that indicates that Stockholm singled out Anne Cools (or you, for that matter) due to race. I know you really, really have it in for Stockholm and you're aching to find something, anything, to pin on him, but it would be nice if you wouldn't follow him from thread to thread attacking him. I saw his quickly-edited post earlier today (it was on TAT, but when I clicked on the thread, he had edited it). Yes, it was wrong, but since he seemed to have second thoughts immediately, I didn't bother with it.

I have an idea. If you don't want him to address you, maybe stop following him around sniping at his heels and nitpicking over his every post. If you have a complaint about him, write to the moderators.

Same goes for you, Stockholm. Following people from thread to thread, making snarky comments about them (as you did with Fidel earlier today, and your unprovoked comment about bohajal in the other thread) because of past arguments with them is not okay.

Could we all please remember that we're adults here? We wouldn't act like this with each other if we were all sitting around a table talking.

[ 02 July 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
bohajal
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posted 02 July 2007 06:17 PM      Profile for bohajal   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
KenS,

Inserting Ujjal -as not having been labelled as "insane" by Stockholm- is not relevant. It is reminiscent of the typical argument of many racists: "I have a friend who is black". The fact that that black friend was not a target of one's racism, does not mean that racist attitudes were not displayed, does it?

Anyway, KenS, we are still awaiting Stockholm's explanation of his "knowledge" discrepancy. From there, I will see whether a thorough survey is warranted.

Michelle: all I am asking is that Stockholm explain how is it that he does not know how Bob Rae's mind works but he does know how Anne Cools' mind (does not)work. Any difference other than the skin colour ?

[ 02 July 2007: Message edited by: bohajal ]


From: planet earth, I believe | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 02 July 2007 06:47 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Since I am not a psychiatrist and I do not have access to Anne Cools' medical records. I withdraw my comments questioning her sanity.

As for why I question Cools' sanity but not Bob Rae's, all I can say is that I know people who work on Parliament Hill who have seen Anne Cools in action and who have said that she is totally "nuts" (or at least a very good imitation of being totally nuts). I have also heard her speak and found her to be rambling and incoherent that i was searching for an explanation as to how she could have gotten as far as she has in her career.

I have met Bob Rae and i know people who know him. He is a very disagreeable man, who is cold and unfriendly and small-minded and who I disagree with on many issues, but no one has ever suggested that he ought to be institutionalized or put in a straight-jacket.

There are many, many white males who I do think have or had severe psychological issues - including Caligula, Nero, Abraham Lincoln (severe depression) Adolf Hitler (psychopath and delusional paranoic), Josef Stalin (psychopath), Richard Nixon (major unresolved Oedipal issues and a suspected paranoid schizophrenic) and Ronald Reagan (who many neurologists suspect had early stage Alzheimers disease through much of his second term as President) etc...to name a few.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
bohajal
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posted 03 July 2007 03:17 AM      Profile for bohajal   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
As for why I question Cools' sanity but not Bob Rae's, all I can say is that I know people who work on Parliament Hill who have seen Anne Cools in action and who have said that she is totally "nuts" (or at least a very good imitation of being totally nuts). I have also heard her speak and found her to be rambling and incoherent that i was searching for an explanation as to how she could have gotten as far as she has in her career.

I have met Bob Rae and i know people who know him. He is a very disagreeable man, who is cold and unfriendly and small-minded and who I disagree with on many issues, but no one has ever suggested that he ought to be institutionalized or put in a straight-jacket. Stockholm


In other words, what Stockholm is saying is that he has simply adopted the racist attitudes of people around him.


From: planet earth, I believe | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 03 July 2007 03:23 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by bohajal:
In other words, what Stockholm is saying is that he has simply adopted the racist attitudes of people around him.

No, that's not what he said.

I'm going to ask you one more time to stop personally attacking other posters. Next time, I'm going to suspend your account yet again.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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