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Author Topic: More evidence that the BQ is NOT a progressive party
Stockholm
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posted 20 February 2007 07:24 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The facts say it all:

Perhaps all you apologists for Gilles Duceppe can try to explain this way!!

quote:
The Bloc Quebecois abandons its progressive values
Tue 20 Feb 2007

OTTAWA – The myth that the Bloc Quebecois protects the interests of Quebeckers has been proven completely false. Today, the Bloc Quebecois voted against the NDP opposition day motion seeking to reduce the poverty gap and to help hardworking, middle class families make ends meet.

The motion reads as follows:

“That, in the opinion of the House, there is a growing prosperity gap in Canada that is making it harder for working and middle-class families to make ends meet and sees more and more Canadians, including women, children, seniors, aboriginal peoples and people with disabilities, slipping into poverty and therefore calls on the government, in cooperation with the provinces and territories, to implement a national anti-poverty strategy beginning with the reinstatement of the federal minimum wage to be initially set at $10 per hour.”

“I’m completely shocked. I just don’t understand the position the Bloc Quebecois has taken today. This motion is meant to fight poverty, reduce socio-economic gaps and establish a federal minimum wage. In no way does it intrude on areas of provincial jurisdiction, since it applies only to jobs under federal jurisdiction. This motion is meant to set an example for the provinces to follow,” said NDP MP Yvon Godin (Acadie-Bathurst).

Statistics Canada has determined that a single person must earn at least $10/hour in order to stay above the poverty line.

“If the Bloc truly had progressive values and the interests of Quebeckers at heart, it would have stood up with the NDP, not voted with the Conservatives. Today, the Bloc gave up on the fight against poverty,” added Godin.

Bloc Quebecois MPs joined the Conservatives to prevent the NDP motion from passing.



From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
ravijo
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posted 20 February 2007 07:45 PM      Profile for ravijo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I, being now addicted to CPAC, watched it all go down. I was shocked, and appalled as so called labour affiliated MPs voted against it. There reasoning was that it interfered with the independence of the provinces' right to make such changes on their own accord.

You simply cannot believe how disappointed I am with them. Seperatism is an ends for the Bloc, to which any means is justified. It is encouraging that QS sees things differently. You have sunk to a new low, Bloc.

Also, I'm curious if the Liberals would have voted for this if the Bloc had. In this case, they can say they supported it, when they well knew it would not pass. This does not obsolve the Bloc of their obligation, but it's certainly worth considering that it was not going to pass (nomatter how much I do indeed support the motion).


From: Guelph, ON | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 20 February 2007 07:48 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This vote by the BQ is shocking. Why would they oppose a raise in the federal minimum wage!? Does anyone have any clue as to why they would vote this way? This party truly appears to be heading into the rightwing abyss, both on labour and on international issues. I lost any hope for them in 1999 when Gilles Duceppe demanded that Canada send ground troops into the war against Serbia!!

Equally bizarre is the Liberal vote in favour. What a bunch of hypocrites they are!!

I'm pleased to see the NDP support for this bill - credit for which I think goes to Peggy Nash of the CAW and other CAW-originating MPs. I must say, it's also a pleasant shock in its own way. When the NDP is in power, and can actually do something about the minimum wage, it tends to show very different colours:

Manitoba: $7.60/hour

Saskatchewan: $7.55/hour.

If only words spoke louder than actions...

[ 20 February 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 20 February 2007 07:51 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
credit for which I think goes to Peggy Nash of the CAW and other CAW-originating MPs.

Is that the same CAW that is led by big "L" Liberal Buzz Hargrove who is now an outspoken opponent of the Kyoto Accord?


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 20 February 2007 07:56 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by ravijo:
There reasoning was that it interfered with the independence of the provinces' right to make such changes on their own accord.

That makes no sense whatsoever. The federal parliament has no power to legislate wages for the vast majority of enterprises in Canada, which come under provincial jurisdiction. The bill would only have affected Canada Labour Code-regulated sectors (transport, banks, broadcasting, etc.) which Québec and the other provinces can't regulate anyway.

Are you sure this is what they said, ravijo? Can the BQ be that ignorant - or was there some other implication that bothered them? This is just completely pathetic on their part.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 20 February 2007 07:58 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:

Is that the same CAW that is led by big "L" Liberal Buzz Hargrove who is now an outspoken opponent of the Kyoto Accord?


You don't actually care about which bill passes or not, Stockholm, only which party supports or opposes it. That's the only explanation I can find for childish comments like that. By the way, who "all you apologists for Gilles Duceppe" that appeared in your fatuous introduction to this thread?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 20 February 2007 08:00 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So you don't even deny that Hargrove is anti-Kyoto - yet just a few months ago, he was your big hero. you must be very disappointed in him now.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 20 February 2007 08:09 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
So you don't even deny that Hargrove is anti-Kyoto - yet just a few months ago, he was your big hero. you must be very disappointed in him now.

Hargrove has made asinine anti-Kyoto statements for which he should be condemned - as he made unconscionable pro-Israeli policy statements last year for which I condemned him.

He was never my "hero", even though he has done far more for the labour movement in the past decade than your beloved party, unfortunately, which has passed its heyday. I did, however, ridicule and denounce the blood frenzy of those (like you-know-who) who praise or condemn someone for partisan reasons only, without ever giving a damn about what principles they uphold. Thus, the NDP (including the Ontario NDP) happily harbours members who are anti-choice, pro-war, pro-unrestricted capitalism, you name it - as long as they say "VOTE NDP!!!", they're ok to stay.

Were it not for the pro-labour perseverance of some brave NDP MPs, mostly with union backgrounds, even bread-and-butter issues like minimum wage and anti-scab legislation would suffer the same fate as they do where the NDP is in power.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 20 February 2007 08:10 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I see you're grasping at straws now.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
ravijo
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posted 20 February 2007 08:14 PM      Profile for ravijo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

That makes no sense whatsoever. The federal parliament has no power to legislate wages for the vast majority of enterprises in Canada, which come under provincial jurisdiction. The bill would only have affected Canada Labour Code-regulated sectors (transport, banks, broadcasting, etc.) which Québec and the other provinces can't regulate anyway.

Are you sure this is what they said, ravijo? Can the BQ be that ignorant - or was there some other implication that bothered them? This is just completely pathetic on their part.


I was watching it, and purposely listening without the voice-translation (it helps me to improve my French). I'm pretty sure (certain) this was the argument. They're messaging might well have changed to appeal to the Conservatives new found Québec support. I think the Bloc/PQ are trying to pick up support where ever it is. Up until recently, it has mostly been in "progressive" policies.


From: Guelph, ON | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 20 February 2007 08:17 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
I see you're grasping at straws now.

You opened a thread ostensibly to attack the BQ and support raising the minimum wage.

Your next two posts completely abandoned those themes (because you lost your way when challenged - especially when I AGREED WITH YOU, which must have come as the ultimate shockeroo) - and you used both posts to attack Buzz Hargrove (a mythical bogeyman from your childhood days who still causes night terrors).

When I AGREED WITH YOU ABOUT BUZZ HARGROVE ON KYOTO, that was about the end of your rope, wasn't it? Don't know what to say now, do you?

So, I'm going to help you out by making a suggestion. When you open a thread to attack the BQ for not supporting raising the minimum wage - and the next two posters (including yours truly) agree with you - be happy! Feel good! You'll live longer.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 20 February 2007 08:21 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Can the BQ be that ignorant - or was there some other implication that bothered them?

No, they aren't ignorant at all. The BQ has only ever cared about one thing - independence for Quebec and they will gladly sell out every needy underprivileged person on the face of the earth if they think it will advance that singular cause of theirs.

This comes as no surprise to me at all. I just hope that this will be remebered by all these Anglo-Canadian progressives that cling to this quaint antiquated fantasy that there is anything at all progressive about the Quebec nationalist movement.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 20 February 2007 08:25 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Senate Democrats Hammer Through Minimum Wage Hike

quote:
The bill also extends for the first time the federal minimum wage to the U.S. territory of the Northern Mariana Islands. However, it exempts American Samoa, another Pacific island territory that would become the only U.S. territory not subject to federal minimum-wage laws.

[ 21 February 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 20 February 2007 08:25 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:

No, they aren't ignorant at all. The BQ has only ever cared about one thing - independence for Quebec and they will gladly sell out every needy underprivileged person on the face of the earth if they think it will advance that singular cause of theirs.


Seems a bit extreme, but let's say you're right, that Québec independence might require selling out every needy underprivileged person on the face of the earth.

Explain how not raising the federal minimum wage advances the cause of independence, please.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 20 February 2007 08:43 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

Explain how not raising the federal minimum wage advances the cause of independence, please.

I believe the federal NDP is proposing higher min wages as is the NDP in Canada's largest province.

You can't raise min wage in provinces with tiny populations, scabby outfits will just move next door to Ontario. Ontario, where a conservative government was quick to repeal the NDP's anti-scab law.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 20 February 2007 08:50 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's really sad when NDP apologists can't answer simple questions. Thank God I don't have to support "my party right or wrong". The party should support the people - not the other way around.

Anyone who can explain the BQ stand (which was the pretend reason for opening this thread) is still welcome to do so.

I thought maybe the BQ (which seems to be swimming in reactionary sewage these days) might have been worried about the invidious comparison which would be made if Quebeckers working in federal companies were paid $10 minimum, while those in provincial ones got $7.75, thus putting pressure on Québec to emulate Ottawa...

But that's so convoluted as to make no sense. How many federally regulated employees in Québec would now earn less than $10 per hour? Next to none, would be my guess. So I'm still confused. I guess I'll have to wait until Hansard carries the speeches tomorrow(?).


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 20 February 2007 09:02 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
I thought maybe the BQ (which seems to be swimming in reactionary sewage these days) might have been worried about the invidious comparison which would be made if Quebeckers working in federal companies were paid $10 minimum, while those in provincial ones got $7.75, thus putting pressure on Québec to emulate Ottawa...

If the feds set the minimum wage across Canada, I'd imagine it would be the law no matter which province scabby outfits would flock to and attempting to pay poverty wages. Is that so convoluted?

quote:
But that's so convoluted as to make no sense. How many federally regulated employees in Québec would now earn less than $10 per hour? Next to none, would be my guess.

quote:
About 18, 000 minimum-wage workers in the federal service would be affected by any change, which would also set a precedent for minimum wage increases at the provincial level.

I wonder how the Blox head himself voted ?. Are political conservatives allowed to vote against the party line ?

[ 21 February 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
sgm
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posted 20 February 2007 11:43 PM      Profile for sgm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
When the NDP is in power, and can actually do something about the minimum wage, it tends to show very different colours:

Manitoba: $7.60/hour

Saskatchewan: $7.55/hour.


Very different colours?

According to this, the minimum wage of 7.55/hr, recently increased from 7.05/hr, is set to reach 7.95/hr on March 1st, making it the third-highest minimum wage among Canadian provinces, after BC and Ontario.

Now, I agree with the view that a federally-mandated minimum wage should be higher still, and I'm also not saying that what provinces have done so far is sufficient to meet the challenge of poverty.

That said, I think it's wrong to imply that all provincial NDP governments have "shown the wrong colours" on increasing the minimum wage.

Some have indeed been working towards increasing that minimum wage.


From: I have welcomed the dawn from the fields of Saskatchewan | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 21 February 2007 12:19 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, Peggy Nash's bill C-257 is the federal proposal for a $10/hr min wage. In Ontario, Canada's largest province, NDP MPP Cheri DiNovo introduced bill 150 at Queen’s Park to raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 21 February 2007 12:34 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
It's really sad when NDP apologists can't answer simple questions. Thank God I don't have to support "my party right or wrong". The party should support the people - not the other way around.

I think you're a small c conservative and have never had the cojones to admit it here. Maybe you don't remember swooping down on a thread in rabid defence of old Diefenbaker and his dud missiles costing taxpayers billions. And judging by your performance in this thread, you voted Bloc?.

So which individuating maverick of an MP channeling your personal views on the fly did you vote for last election ? Small "c" Coe Jones ?.

Backgrounder on Peggy Nash's Bill C-375

[ 21 February 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 21 February 2007 03:24 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by sgm:

That said, I think it's wrong to imply that all provincial NDP governments have "shown the wrong colours" on increasing the minimum wage.

Some have indeed been working towards increasing that minimum wage.


The NDP demands $10 in Ottawa, but not in Winnipeg or Regina.

The NDP demands anti-scab legislation in Ottawa, but not in Winnipeg or Regina.

Fidel above names the NDP members who have proposed $10 in Ottawa and Toronto. Who are the NDP members who have proposed it where the NDP is in power?

The Bloc has a lot of explaining to do for its stand. So do the Man. and Sask. NDPs. If you have the explanation, go ahead and give it.

If you don't see a contradiction in the above phenomena, fine.

[Edited slightly.]

[ 21 February 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 21 February 2007 03:44 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:

If the feds set the minimum wage across Canada, I'd imagine it would be the law no matter which province scabby outfits would flock to and attempting to pay poverty wages. Is that so convoluted?


You're mistaken. The feds have no constitutional right to set the minimum wage across Canada.

It's actually a little frightening that you participate in this discussion and throw personal insults around without even bothering to inform yourself.

Let me spell it out for you. Please make sure you keep reading until the end of the post.

Even if Parliament had passed the $10 minimum wage,

it would still be less than $8 in the two NDP provinces.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 21 February 2007 03:50 AM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This may surprise you, but I agree with one of your points. The Saskatchewan, and Manitoba NDP governments ought to introduce a 10$ minimum wage, and for them to not do that, isn't a very progressive move. Problem with your point, is that we're talking about federal politics, so you're really grasping at straws. If you tell me water is wet, then yeah, I'll agree with you. So considering the issue at hand, and the level of government we're talking about the NDP hasn't betrayed anything on this issue and has obviously maintained a progressive stance. Whereas as we all agree the Bloc hasn't maintained a progressive stance, and has betrayed low wage earners, for the sake of promoting their narrow self-serving separatist goals. Nuts to the rest of the country, so long as the "division of powers" isn't interfered with.
From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 21 February 2007 03:55 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vansterdam Kid:
Whereas as we all agree the Bloc hasn't maintained a progressive stance, and has betrayed low wage earners, for the sake of promoting their narrow self-serving separatist goals.

Have you seen any explanation from the Bloc?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 21 February 2007 04:28 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ok, the full debate on the motion is here.

Here is Carole Lavallée (Bloc MP):

quote:
As for the actual minimum wage, section 178 of the Canada Labour Code reads as follows: “—not less than the minimum hourly rate fixed, from time to time, by or under an Act of the legislature of the province where the employee is usually employed—”. Currently, the province, Quebec, determines the minimum wage. The Bloc Québécois feels that this is as it should be. We see no reason to change this, no reason to give the federal government another opportunity to interfere in Quebec's areas of jurisdiction.

Quebec sets the minimum wage, and does a good job of it too. If there is any disagreement, we in Quebec discuss it with various unions, the FTQ, the CSN, social groups and the government. Together, we decide what the minimum wage should be. That way, we avoid creating two classes of workers—those who earn $8 an hour under the Quebec Labour Code and those who earn more or less than that under the Canada Labour Code.

That way, there is no problem. Minimum wage is the same for everyone.


She's correct - if Parliament passed this, then federally regulated workers in Québec, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and every other province would have a minimum of $10, while the remaining 90% of workers (not covered by the Canada Labour Code) would have a much lower standard.

The rest of her speech is dedicated to all the other areas where poverty needs to be combatted.

I understand her logic, but totally disagree with the Bloc's conclusion. The minimum wage must be increased to $10. If one jurisdiction does it, it will make the battle easier, not harder, in others.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
johnpauljones
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posted 21 February 2007 04:29 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Have you seen any explanation from the Bloc?

I heard on the radio this am that the Bloc voted against the measure because Bloc MPs voted against the motion because this measure was an intrusion on provincial jurisdiction

Pretty lame excuse if you ask me


From: City of Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 21 February 2007 04:52 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Explain how not raising the federal minimum wage advances the cause of independence, please.

It's not so much that NOT raising the minimum wage advances the cause of independence. It's that voting FOR a federal law to increase the minimum wage would be conceding that there is a role for the federal level of government in fighting poverty and since the BQ's sole goal is to eliminate the federal level of government altogether, it would be impossible to agree to having the federal governmentr do anything good.

I'm sure all those people in Quebec who make less than $10/hour will be so relieved to know that they will continue to make less than $10/hour, but by golly at least the federal government won't be the one forcing their employers to pay them a decent wage. I wonder if they will all be writing thank you notes to their BQ Mps for this!!


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
onerycanadian
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posted 21 February 2007 05:53 AM      Profile for onerycanadian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Since the days of Duplessis, in Quebec, you never negotiate over the infringement on provincial rights, you always push for more.

Minimum wage is a provincial jurisdiction. There is just no way the BQ could support an infringement on provincial rights.

To quote from the Wikipedia article on Politics of Quebec, ..."
The Duplessis regime resisted the North American and European trend of massive State investment in education, health, and social programs, turning away federal transfers of funds earmarked for these fields; he jealously guarded provincial jurisdictions."


From: waterloo | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 21 February 2007 05:55 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:

It's not so much that NOT raising the minimum wage advances the cause of independence. It's that voting FOR a federal law to increase the minimum wage would be conceding that there is a role for the federal level of government in fighting poverty and since the BQ's sole goal is to eliminate the federal level of government altogether, it would be impossible to agree to having the federal governmentr do anything good.


Then why did the BQ push more than 10 years for an anti-scab bill in parliament, and finally got their bill adopted on second reading? Wouldn't it have served their purpose better to say: "See, Québec has had it for 30 years, but federal employees all across Canada, including Québec, continue to suffer?"

I think the logic is contained in the BQ's comments. You should actually read her whole speech and let me know what you think of it (without partisan blinkers on).

Still, the BQ's conclusion is ridiculous and they end up on the wrong side of the issue.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 21 February 2007 06:49 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I am guessing that in the BQ's Alice in Wonderland distorted view of reality, they figure that it is OK for the federal government to bring in anti-scab legislation because it is bring the federal government up to a standard already set by some provincial governments, including Quebec. In the case of the minimum wage, it would mean the federal government EXCEEDING the standard set by the Quebec government. and we can have none of that

Do, do you expect all the people in Quebec who earn less than $10/hour to start sending bouquests of flowers to Gilles to Duceppe to thank him for protecting them from getting a $2/hour raise???


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 21 February 2007 10:31 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

You're mistaken. The feds have no constitutional right to set the minimum wage across Canada.


The feds do have a role to play in setting minimum wage laws in federal public service. The provinces also have a role to play. And yes, the feds can set a federal minimum wage, that's why the NDP is fighting to reinstate federal min wage law. So you're full of it.

quote:
It's actually a little frightening that you participate in this discussion and throw personal insults around without even bothering to inform yourself.

And I think it's shocking that a person claiming to be pro-union and pro-worker is arguing against the NDP and their fight for living wages across Canada. And I'm glad you're not affiliated with the NDP in any way. With friends like you, low wage workers in Canada don't need anymore enemies.

quote:
Even if Parliament had passed the $10 minimum wage,

it would still be less than $8 in the two NDP provinces.


I'm going to throw a big wrench into your unsubstantiated claim. How can you know that? Because I don't think you have a clue about labour market dynamics or the role the feds and provinces have to play in applying upward pressure on minimum wages.

Ontario and Quebec have large labour markets in direct comparison with prairie provinces. Higher min wage laws in the largest provinces will have the effect of spilling over into smaller labour markets, a lot moreso than the reverse. There are inter-provincial labour market dynamics at play And I can deduce as much because I'm capable of thinking independently, unlike you and your maverick small c MP dreaming up his political platform policies on the fly.

And there are a range of mechanisms and approaches that can be utilized in the fight for a living wage. It's why Jack Layton was the first federal leader to sign Workers' Bill of Rights, pledging support for Canadian workers' freedom of association to join unions.

The Mike Harris Conservatives in Ontario inherited what was the highest provincial minimum wage in the country in the 1990's and then held the line on min wage increases for a decade until they were tossed in 2003.

[ 21 February 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 21 February 2007 08:14 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
if Parliament passed this, then federally regulated workers in Québec, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and every other province would have a minimum of $10, while the remaining 90% of workers (not covered by the Canada Labour Code) would have a much lower standard.

Quite so.
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Equally bizarre is the Liberal vote in favour. What a bunch of hypocrites they are!!

Indeed, especially since it was the Chretien government that delegated the federal minimum wage to copy the provincial figure. Previously it had been set separately, higher than most provinces.

But I'm not surprised at the Bloc position. If even Chretien had agreed to copy the provincial standard, how could they become more centralist than Chretien?


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 21 February 2007 09:54 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Wilf Day:

But I'm not surprised at the Bloc position. If even Chretien had agreed to copy the provincial standard, how could they become more centralist than Chretien?

Ok - I finally got it! You're right. And it makes the Bloc's position truly indefensible. The reason they had such a hard time explaining it is that there's no explanation which doesn't put workers' rights in second place to sovereignty. And that's not a scenario which is healthy for the Bloc.

Thanks, Wilf.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594

posted 21 February 2007 10:18 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Minimum wages in Canada are low by international standards. A report by the UK's Low Pay Commission places Canada 9th out of 13 OECD countries, just above the U.S., Portugal, Spain and Greece.

175 pieces of restrictive labour legislation passed by the feds and provinces 1982- 2006.

NDP candidates join Layton in signing Workers' Bill of Rights


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
spooner
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13848

posted 21 February 2007 10:23 PM      Profile for spooner     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Being a one-issue protest party (however much they try to deny it) doesn't necessarily make you against worker's rights. It just leaves you indifferent.
From: Prince George | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594

posted 22 February 2007 09:17 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by spooner:
Being a one-issue protest party (however much they try to deny it) doesn't necessarily make you against worker's rights. It just leaves you indifferent.

We know what you mean. The Green Party are another bunch of conservatives with more money than brains behind them.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6874

posted 22 February 2007 09:18 AM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:

We know what you mean. The Green Party are another bunch of conservatives with more money than brains behind them.


We have money behind us?!?!?! That's news to me!


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594

posted 22 February 2007 09:39 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That's exactly what political conservatives try to tell people. Oh, and their typical supporters are "taxi cab drivers" and waitresses, too. And we all know the global socialist cabal is behind the NDP. Ask any "cab driver", they'll tell you.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594

posted 22 February 2007 03:19 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And in case anyone's interested, Saskatchewan and Manitoban minimum wage rates are set somewhere inbetween Alberta's and Ontario's, two of the more influential labour markets in Canada.

Is it the responsibility for democratically-elected governments to intervene in balancing power between employers and workers in the economy ? Yes it is. Governments should serve the people who vote for them and not favour their big money backers' interests alone.

Will raising minimum wage alone solve Canada's appalling rates of child poverty? No, it will not.

Are minimum wage laws one of several mechanisms available to democratically-elected governments to use in the struggle for living wages and fairness in the economy ?. Yes they are.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged

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