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Author Topic: Dion Supporter Arrested for Cocaine Trafficking
DavidMR
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Babbler # 13478

posted 26 January 2007 06:22 PM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
American police in the State of Washington have arrested a Canadian union official on charges of trafficking $4 million in cocaine. The union official in question is a Liberal Party supporter and was an active supporter of Stephane Dion's leadership drive.

Here is a link to the Globe and Mail story:

Union official arrested in coke bust

I spoke today about this with a BC building trades representative. He conveyed in no uncertain terms their shock and disappointment with this development. It seems the Dion people are at least as shocked, and are taking steps, however feeble, to distance themselves from someone they were once proud to count among their supporters.


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 26 January 2007 08:14 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well David, you seem to have your own agenda, which is to tie this guy to Dion.

The story itself says:

quote:
Mr. Holmes is also a well-known Liberal supporter, Mr. Beatty said, having backed the federal party at least since Jean Chrétien was leader. He contributed $100 to the campaign of current leader Stéphane Dion.

He really spent $100 whole dollars? Wow, that makes him the main man behind Dion, I guess.

And he also sent in a comment to Dion's website?

That makes him a real insider.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 26 January 2007 09:02 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:
Well David, you seem to have your own agenda, which is to tie this guy to Dion.

True confession (which I've stated before): I can't stand Stéphane Dion. I am repelled by those of his policies which are not so ambiguous as to be incomprehensible. He is connected with all the anti-people measures of the government of the day and of the Liberal Party. And I simply can't fathom how he is tagged with some kind of "integrity" aura by the media, and even some leftists, just because he comes from academia and has no glitz.

True confession #2: The more I read DavidMR's relentless, partisan, and unprincipled attempts at character assassination, the more this horrid thought comes creeping unbidden into my mind: "Maybe Dion isn't that bad after all!"

Luckily, even DavidMR can't make that thought stick around for long.

Now back to the thread - what's this about some union guy being persecuted just because his bottle of coke bust?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 26 January 2007 09:25 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Did I take a wrong turn and end up on the Blogging Tories site?
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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posted 27 January 2007 12:22 AM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
As I said, people in the BC building trades are hurt and embarassed by this development.

Tell me Mr House. Why is it that unions should wear this man's indiscretions, but not Liberals? Why are they immune?


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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posted 27 January 2007 12:25 AM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
True confession #2: The more I read DavidMR's relentless, partisan, and unprincipled attempts at character assassination, the more this horrid thought comes creeping unbidden into my mind: "Maybe Dion isn't that bad after all!"


I wasn't going to respond to this, but it's late and my patience gets tried more easily.

If you sincerely believe that I am unprincipled and that what I have said is character assassination, I would be very, very suprised. I think this is just a made up set of remarks on your part. I don't think you believe a word of it.


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 27 January 2007 02:04 AM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:
As I said, people in the BC building trades are hurt and embarassed by this development.

Tell me Mr House. Why is it that unions should wear this man's indiscretions, but not Liberals? Why are they immune?


Because you can not micromanage the conduct of your supporters and organizers. I do not look kindly towards people that attempt to attack one man's character over the conduct of someone else.


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Politics101
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posted 27 January 2007 06:58 AM      Profile for Politics101   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I think a more important concern for the Union is whether or not any union funds are missing - i beleive i read that the Union president has asked for an audit of the books - hopefully the members won't suffer further by having their dues pay for this man alleged habits.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 27 January 2007 07:41 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Politics101:
hopefully the members won't suffer further by having their dues pay for this man alleged habits.

Normally I'd agree, but in this case, if he stole from the workers, it would make Dion look even worse and help the NDP come to power federally, so I'm a bit torn... You know, headlines like:

quote:
Liberal cokehead bagman steals from union members and possibly also widows and orphans

Hey, all's fair, right?

[ 27 January 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 27 January 2007 07:59 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is the dumbest thread I've seen in a while.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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posted 27 January 2007 10:33 AM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
This is the dumbest thread I've seen in a while.

I think it's perfectly legitimate to point out where the Liberals get the "labour" supporters from. It's people on the make.

Louis St Laurent once said that the CCF were "Liberals in a hurry". It's beggining to look like it's the other way around. Those who cannot wait for the NDP to reach major party status, who cannot wait that long for the patronage ship to come in, and beyond that those who cannot wait for a patronage appointment and have to sell some contraband.


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 27 January 2007 01:49 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:
I think it's perfectly legitimate to point out where the Liberals get the "labour" supporters from.

Had you used the actual headline as the title of your thread and noted in passing that the individual involved was a "Dion supporter", you might be able to argue legitimacy though the connection is still tenuous. But the thread title makes it evident that the only reason you think the story is significant is because you saw an opportunity for a little guilt by association.

Joe McCarthy would be proud. That's not a compliment.

Edited for spelling.

[ 27 January 2007: Message edited by: pogge ]


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 27 January 2007 01:50 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Doppelpost.

[ 27 January 2007: Message edited by: pogge ]


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Politics101
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posted 27 January 2007 02:12 PM      Profile for Politics101   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Unionist - I wonder who he might support provincially - the NDP probably - it is not uncommon for union leaders to support the Federal Liberals and the provincial New Democrats although most aren't as brazen as Buzz.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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posted 27 January 2007 02:46 PM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:
Had you used the actual headline as the title of your thread and noted in passing that the individual involved was a "Dion supporter", you might be able to argue legitimacy though the connection is still tenuous.


The Dion supporters were worried that the link is not tenuous enough. So they suppressed the web pages where Perley's praise for Dion had previously appeared.

I don't accept your comparison to MacCarthy, obviously. And I very much doubt that you do, either. You're just doing your bit to defend Dion and the Liberals, that's all.

As for your stupid and insincere remarks about guilt by association, I don't know who you think you're trying to kid. Politicians of all types live off their associations, their endorsements. That's why the publish lists of prominent supporters, to persuade others that if these worthy people are in favour of a certain party or candidate, they should think hard about getting on board themsevles. It's clearly a case of endorsement by association.

Now, suppose one of those endorsers rolls over and sinks? Is there not some good reason to think that this blows a hole in the original argument, that you should be thinking about supporting Dion because Perley does?

I actually had some indirect contact with Perley when some of the NDP MPs came to our riding and we wanted someone to speak to them on foreign worker issues in the bridge building industry. I never talked to him personally but he appeared and made a presentation. I wouldn't want to bet $500 that one of our local Tory papers won't be ribbing the NDP about that in the next election, saying that seven of our MPs listened attentively to the views on labour issues of a man who has now been charged with trafficking cocaine. That's just the nature of the political game, and we'll have to have an answer ready, basically that we didn't know, that no one knew, and that we all know that every organization has it's personnel disappointments. Give a big shrug and hope people don't take it too seriously.

My question for all our Liberals here is this. If the labour movement and the NDP have to take it and try to make the best of it when they get reminded of this guy's activities and associations, why is it that Dion and the Liberals are able to cry "foul" if anyone brings it up? Why is it OKay for us to be tagged with this guy, but it's MacCarthyism if anyone tags the Liberals with him, even though he was a Liberal supporter and had nothing to do with the NDP?

Since this thread began the situation has actually gotten more serious. Apparently the RCMP raided a property on the Canadian side and found a not inconsiderable cache of firearms.


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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posted 27 January 2007 02:50 PM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Politics101:
Unionist - I wonder who he might support provincially - the NDP probably - it is not uncommon for union leaders to support the Federal Liberals and the provincial New Democrats although most aren't as brazen as Buzz.


Thanks for making my case.

The double standard here among the Liberals is that it's OKay to ask the NDP to accept responsibility for this guy if he supported them provincially, or like Ujjal, says he did. But if anyone asks the Liberals to take responsibility for this guy, that's not fair!


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 27 January 2007 02:53 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:
The Dion supporters were worried that the link is not tenuous enough. So they suppressed the web pages where Perley's praise for Dion had previously appeared.

And your antics here demonstrate exactly why they would find that necessary.

quote:
I don't accept your comparison to MacCarthy, obviously. And I very much doubt that you do, either.

Meant every word of it.

quote:
You're just doing your bit to defend Dion and the Liberals, that's all.

Ask some of the other long time members here if I'm a Liberal supporter. This is typical. Someone who's so blindly partisan that he'll engage in the lowest kind of politics reacts to criticism with the accusation that it springs from partisan bias instead of honestly held opinion. In other words, you think I'm being dishonest. Put it where the sun don't shine.

[ 27 January 2007: Message edited by: pogge ]


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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posted 27 January 2007 03:10 PM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:
Ask some of the other long time members here if I'm a Liberal supporter. This is typical. Someone who's so blindly partisan that he'll engage in the lowest kind of politics reacts to criticism with the accusation that it springs from partisan bias instead of honestly held opinion. In other words, you think I'm being dishonest. Put it where the sun don't shine.


I am not blindly partisan. On the contrary, I think all parties should be on a level playing field.

That's why it pisses me off that it's fair game for labour and the NDP to get criticized for this man's misbehaviour, but not the Liberals.


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 27 January 2007 03:20 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:
That's why it pisses me off that it's fair game for labour and the NDP to get criticized for this man's misbehaviour, but not the Liberals.

Then why not direct your complaints at those who are making that unfair criticism instead of engaging in the same sleazy kind of game here?


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 27 January 2007 03:32 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ok, I've thought about DavidMR's point more carefully, and I believe the headline should read as follows:

quote:
Stéphane Dion caught stealing workers' money and trafficking in cocaine, but uses left-over sponsorship slush money to pay off a slavish Liberal union drone to take the rap in his place - VOTE NDP!!

I'm tryin' to work with ya here, bud. Lemme know if I misunderstood your point.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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posted 27 January 2007 03:58 PM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:
Then why not direct your complaints at those who are making that unfair criticism instead of engaging in the same sleazy kind of game here?

I haven't done anything sleazy and you know it.


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 27 January 2007 04:47 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:
I haven't done anything sleazy and you know it.

I'll be the judge of what I know.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 27 January 2007 05:51 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:

I actually had some indirect contact with Perley...

Holy cow, wait'll the media get hold of this!

quote:
Accused narcotics cartel head and union boss maintains "indirect" contact with singleminded anti-Liberal babble poster, police learn

From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
scooter
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posted 28 January 2007 06:40 AM      Profile for scooter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Imagine the damage to Stephen Harper if they ever tie him to President Bush's actions around the world.
From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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Babbler # 13478

posted 28 January 2007 10:13 AM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:

I'll be the judge of what I know.



Really? Well isn't that special.

What I know is that you're telling me that it's OKay for Liberals to ridicule the NDP whenever one of our associates ends up in trouble, but it's not OKay for the NDP to return the compliment.

I don't accept those rules.


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 28 January 2007 10:18 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:
What I know is that you're telling me that it's OKay for Liberals to ridicule the NDP whenever one of our associates ends up in trouble, but it's not OKay for the NDP to return the compliment.

I don't accept those rules.


I totally agree with you. If the Liberals can make desperate fools of themselves with their hysterical bigoted attack ads, why not the NDP?

That's why I've created my own suggested NDP attack headline. It's only a suggestion, but I'd appreciate your comments - maybe a little editing, fine-tuning? Whatever. Let's roll!

ETA: Whoops, sorry, I forgot, in my prolific ecstasy I actually designed this second theme, which may even be sleazier than the first! Please comment on both, at your convenience.

[ 28 January 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 28 January 2007 10:19 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:
What I know is that you're telling me that it's OKay for Liberals to ridicule the NDP whenever one of our associates ends up in trouble, but it's not OKay for the NDP to return the compliment.

Words. Mouth. Put. Don't.

I'm tired of people who treat voters like marks to be conned and manipulated instead of like adults to be reasoned with. The crap you pulled in this thread is no more acceptable coming from you than it is when it comes from this bozo. Scan his recent posts. This is the company you're keeping.

ETA:

For everyone else, I should add that the link I posted above comes with a warning: spending too much time there may result in an irresistible urge to have a shower. Or possibily just to pound your head against the wall until unconscious.

[ 28 January 2007: Message edited by: pogge ]


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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posted 28 January 2007 02:31 PM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:
The crap you pulled in this thread is no more acceptable coming from you than it is when it comes from this bozo. Scan his recent posts. This is the company you're keeping.

ETA:

For everyone else, I should add that the link I posted above comes with a warning: spending too much time there may result in an irresistible urge to have a shower. Or possibily just to pound your head against the wall until unconscious.



I couldn't care less about your link.

If you think the NDP should just take whatever comes their way, and turn the other cheek, I don't agree. If you want to call that "crap", fine.

As for wanting a shower, it's funny you should mention that.


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 28 January 2007 02:50 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:

If you think the NDP should just take whatever comes their way, and turn the other cheek, I don't agree.

Me neither. Pogge is out to lunch. Turning the other cheek is for missionaries. The NDP has to hit back and hit back hard:

quote:
For a government that will never practise patronage - for a government whose civil service will never be involved in crimes or kickbacks - for a government whose supporters are all honest and true and never ever sell or even use cocaine or other bad stuff - for a government that will stop climate change dead in its tracks - VOTE NDP!!!

When does the goddamn election start? I can hardly wait!


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 28 January 2007 02:55 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
David, the point is that this is the lowest form of politics no matter who engages in it or who is attacked. It is crap. Shockingly, people of all political persuasions do things they probably shouldn't do.

So do some of your friends.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 28 January 2007 03:28 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:
If you think the NDP should just take whatever comes their way, and turn the other cheek, I don't agree.

You keep telling me what I think and you keep getting it wrong. I'll leave you with a quote that seems apropos even though it was written in an entirely different context.

quote:
You don’t win support by being assholes. You win support by showing the world that your opponents are assholes.

Emphasis in the original.

From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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posted 28 January 2007 10:47 PM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Coyote:
David, the point is that this is the lowest form of politics no matter who engages in it or who is attacked. It is crap.


I don't agree at all.

If a politician is endorsed by someone who then proves to be an embarassment, I think it's entirely fair ball to point out that this is the kind of support the guy has been attracting. They do it to us all the time and no one complains. If you're saying you have complained, show me where and when.


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 28 January 2007 10:57 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
David, I'm as partisan a New Dem as you are likely to find on babble. I don't know where you'd find me on babble doing what you are specifically asking, because normally I find this kind of cheap smear to be beneath discussion.

It doesn't matter what they do. It matters what we do.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Yst
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posted 28 January 2007 11:38 PM      Profile for Yst     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:

If a politician is endorsed by someone who then proves to be an embarassment, I think it's entirely fair ball to point out that this is the kind of support the guy has been attracting.


Then you are an individual of small and self-indulgent mind and means. At any rate, having covered proof by example, do you have any other logical fallacies you'd like to endorse, while we're at it?


From: State of Genderfuck | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Painet Cirques
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posted 30 January 2007 09:20 AM      Profile for Painet Cirques     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think the connection between the Liberal Party and drugs needs a lot further exploration and airing.

There's too many 'isolated incidents' for it to be merely a coincidence. Mafiosos middling government deals in Montreal, the aide to the premier getting busted for drug trafficking 3 years ago in B.C. and the legislature being raided, the Sheila Ann CSL ship coming in to port with kilos of dope - and most importantly how now with a Conservative government there seems to be a crackdown on the mob and the bikers.

Could it be that the Conservatives just don't have a deal to look the other way, and in fact involve them in federal politics like the Liberals did? Or should I say Liberanos.

It's a pretty sweet thing the Liberals seem to have going here, got their grubs in on the illegal drug trade as well as giving carte blanche to pharmaceutical companies to rob health insurance blind and line their pockets with kickbacks a la Joe Volpe. Ever have it both ways?

Join the Liberals, have your cake and eat it too!


From: London | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Politics101
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posted 30 January 2007 11:10 AM      Profile for Politics101   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Liberals corrupt! - anyone ever hear of the Saskatchewan Conservative Party under the leadership of Grant Devine - what about the goings on in Newfoundland and Labrador where a number of politicos of all parties are under the gun for series of unfortunate misspendings.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 30 January 2007 11:18 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:
They do it to us all the time and no one complains.

Codswallop. ('Cos I've been a potty mouth lately.)

quote:
If you're saying you have complained, show me where and when.

Guilty until proven innocent, eh? I see you've struck another blow in support of democracy.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
rabble-rouser
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posted 30 January 2007 11:31 PM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Coyote:
David, I'm as partisan a New Dem as you are likely to find on babble. I don't know where you'd find me on babble doing what you are specifically asking, because normally I find this kind of cheap smear to be beneath discussion.

It doesn't matter what they do. It matters what we do.



Politics is an adversarial game. Constraining oneself to follow some Marquess of Queensberry rule book while the other players do whatever works for them is not an act of maturity or civility. It's just plain suicidal stupidity. It's professional looserism.

That the particulars of the supposed Marquess of Queensberry rule book is presented to many NDPers by Liberals, pretending to offer the party useful advice on how to keep its nose clean and it's respectability ratin intact, ought to be a clear warning signal to any rational person. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case if this thread is any indication.


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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Babbler # 13478

posted 30 January 2007 11:40 PM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Painet Cirques:
I think the connection between the Liberal Party and drugs needs a lot further exploration and airing.


Since this thread started, the story has broadened out.

43 weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition

quote:

VANCOUVER -- A bust that led the RCMP to a stash of arms in Canada began when a lone U.S. border patrol agent followed tire tracks through freshly fallen snow on a remote road just south of the Washington-British Columbia border, near Midway.

While RCMP officials are continuing to investigate, after the seizure of 43 weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition, details of the case involving a B.C. union official have emerged in U.S. court files.


[ 30 January 2007: Message edited by: DavidMR ]


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 31 January 2007 03:43 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:

Since this thread started, the story has broadened out.

43 weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition
[ 30 January 2007: Message edited by: DavidMR ]


What a cover-up! This latest Globe article doesn't even mention the culprit's Liberal Party connections! The Libs are obviously squeezing the media - maybe even paying the reporter hush money. Investigative journalism in Canada is a joke. Imagine passing up an opportunity to delve into Stéphane Dion's connections with international arms merchants!


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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Babbler # 6289

posted 31 January 2007 04:17 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
But, he was a union official unionist, what about his ties then to unions and arms dealing? If you are going to use such a tenuous connection of a 100 dolar donation to the Liberals, one must apply that to the union he belonged to as well.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 31 January 2007 06:51 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
But, he was a union official unionist, what about his ties then to unions and arms dealing? If you are going to use such a tenuous connection of a 100 dolar donation to the Liberals, one must apply that to the union he belonged to as well.

You're right! I can't believe the RCMP are sitting back on this one. They should have raided the Canadian Labour Congress offices in Ottawa by now, searching for WMD caches, grow-ops, and office staff with Colombian accents, as well as household pets named after Japanese cities.

This thing is huge.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
pogge
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2440

posted 31 January 2007 07:21 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by DavidMR:
That the particulars of the supposed Marquess of Queensberry rule book is presented to many NDPers by Liberals, pretending to offer the party useful advice on how to keep its nose clean and it's respectability ratin intact, ought to be a clear warning signal to any rational person.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1299

posted 31 January 2007 07:24 AM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to attack the credibility of Stephane Dion. This isn't one of them.
From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 31 January 2007 07:25 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:


I got it, pogge - you're adding "cruelty to animals" allegations to the burgeoning Liberal Party - CLC drug and WMD scandal! This is fantastic! The NDP will be able to pick up the pacifist, anti-union, anti-gun, and animal rights votes!

DavidMR, I underestimated your marketing talents. The only question is whether we can keep this story on the front page until the election.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 31 January 2007 07:35 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Piatkowski:
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to attack the credibility of Stephane Dion. This isn't one of them.

Yeah, but here's the problem, Scott. The many areas where Dion sucks (and here are just a few which touch major constituencies):

1. Big talk about environment but do next to nothing while in power;

2. Vote against extending the Afghanistan "mission" but very vague (at best) about what to do now;

3. Anti-scab legislation;

4. Neo-liberal economic policies while in power;

are all areas where the NDP either tends to slide to the right during an election campaign, or has been indistinguishable from the Liberals when in power in some provinces (check out Saskatchewan and Manitoba and judge them against all the points I've mentioned).

So, I think DavidMR is right. Instead of raising these tough issues above where voters might justifiably scratch their heads and say: "What was that difference again!?", it may be safer and more effective to:

1. Promise to eliminate ATM fees - hey! a little money back for everyone! sweet!

2. Profit from a few scandals, even if you have to stretch a bit.

My preference? That the NDP raise the tough issues loud and clear, never waver, keep their promises, distance itself publicly from the Doers and Calverts, show some backbone. There is no shortage of unused planks in their platform that can inspire millions of people to truly understand that the NDP represents something different on the political scene.

Now, go convince the NDP that this approach will win rather than lose votes. Good luck.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 31 January 2007 09:07 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It would be a lot more fun and profitable, not to mention believable, if Joe Volpe could be linked to all this.
From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13478

posted 31 January 2007 06:13 PM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Piatkowski:
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to attack the credibility of Stephane Dion. This isn't one of them.

By your own admission Scott, you are undoubtedly one of the most senior and articulate of all Babblers. So surely it won't be too much trouble for you to explain why you think it's inappropriate to mention the Holmes case in relation to Dion and his political entourage within the Liberal party.

The latest Vancouver Sun story on the Perley Holmes case interviews two people Holmes associated with in the labour movement. It does not interview any of the people Holmes associated with in his political activities, even though he was earlier reported to have been a active Federal Liberal for more than ten years.

Weapons found in house of labour leader

quote:
Darah Hansen, Vancouver Sun
Published: Wednesday, January 31, 2007
OSOYOOS - A house near Osoyoos where police found 43 weapons -- including six handguns and an assault rifle -- belongs to B.C. labour leader Perley Holmes, a court document shows.

According to the information filed in Penticton Provincial Court in support of a search warrant, members of the RCMP Integrated Border Enforcement Team raided Holmes' rural property at 4920 Rock Creek Bridesville Rd. on Jan. 19 -- the day after Holmes, business manager of the B.C. Ironworkers Union, Local 97, was arrested on cocaine-smuggling charges in Washington state, less than a kilometre from Canada.

...
News of Holmes' arrest has shocked friends and colleagues in the union.
"Nobody can believe it," said Jacques Dubois, president of the district council of Eastern Canada for the International Association of Bridge, Structural, Ornamental and Reinforcing Iron Workers.

"Perley was the same Perley with everyone. I talked to his friends, no one can believe it. Not one single person said, 'Oh yeah, I knew it all along,' " Dubois said in an interview from Quebec.

...
Another friend and fellow ironworker, Ronald Power, wrote that Holmes was against drug use and disgusted by drug traffickers.

"I find it difficult to believe that a man who was always honest with me, who never lied and always kept his word could be in the fix he is in now," Power wrote.

...



From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged

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