babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


  
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » current events   » canadian politics   » Thoughts on Diefenbaker

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Thoughts on Diefenbaker
thwap
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5062

posted 30 March 2006 09:47 AM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post
Okay, all I've read was Renegade in Power, and something from the CBC about his Bill of Rights but it seems like Diefenbaker had some decent qualities inside his towering ego.

What do babblers think about the guy?

[ 30 March 2006: Message edited by: thwap ]

[ 30 March 2006: Message edited by: thwap ]


From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 30 March 2006 09:50 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
You're just saying that to suck up to Paul Gross.
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
thwap
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5062

posted 30 March 2006 09:59 AM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post
Paul Gross? The guy from "Mad About You"? He's a Diefenbaker fan?
From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 30 March 2006 10:10 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I miss Diefenbaker. What other shows is he in? The Littlest Hobo?
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
thwap
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5062

posted 30 March 2006 10:16 AM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post
waitaminnit, was Paul Gross the mountie show guy?

Was he in 'the littlest hobo'?

Cause Boom-Boom's post is confusing me.


From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 30 March 2006 10:17 AM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I bet he really wasn't deaf or could read lips. He also had very bad breath.
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 30 March 2006 10:19 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I didn't know Paul Gross was in "Mad About You".
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 30 March 2006 10:21 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Good looking dog, though.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 30 March 2006 10:23 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Diefenbaker Deaf wolf sidekick and constant companion of Constable Benton Fraser (Paul Gross), an RCMP Deputy Liaison officer for the Canadian Consulate in Chicago, Illinois on the police drama DUE SOUTH/CBS/SYN/1994-98. Fraser found Diefenbaker as a pup lost in an abandoned mine in the Yukon. Fraser treats Diefenbaker (a wolf hybrid) with respect, although sometimes they do get on each others nerves. The wolf's handicapped condition can be traced to icy water that burst the wolf's eardrums and took away his hearing (Diefenbaker saved Fraser's life by pulling him out of Prince Rupert Sound). Luckily, Diefenbaker picked up the ability to read lips in English and in Inuit. Fraser's wolf friend has a sweet tooth for chocolate and an open account at a local Dunkin' Donuts store.

TRIVIA NOTE: John Diefenbaker, a Tory Populist, was a Prime Minister of Canada.

[ 30 March 2006: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 30 March 2006 10:23 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I was *talking* abour BABBLER Paul Gross, who portrayed PM Diefenbaker in the "Prairie Giant" miniseries. Sheeesh!

BTW, Thwap ol' buddy, could'ja fix yer link in the OP? It's kinda sidescrolly...

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
chester the prairie shark
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6993

posted 30 March 2006 10:48 AM      Profile for chester the prairie shark     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Paul Gross the Babbler is Paul Gross the actor (Men with Brooms)?
From: Saskatoon | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9050

posted 30 March 2006 10:53 AM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That's blowing my mind!

I had a huge crush on Paul Gross during the Due South years.


From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 30 March 2006 10:55 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Paul Gross the actor (Mad About You) is Paul Gross the Babbler? I need a drink to sort this out.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
fern hill
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3582

posted 30 March 2006 10:56 AM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post
Me too, Nikita. Even though the show was sometimes pretty lame, there was usually one goofy Canadian in-joke in it.
From: away | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Clog-boy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11061

posted 30 March 2006 10:59 AM      Profile for Clog-boy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
I didn't know Paul Gross was in "Mad About You".

Wasn't that Paul Reiser..?

[ 30 March 2006: Message edited by: Clog-boy ]


From: Arnhem, The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 30 March 2006 11:16 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Paul Gross the babbler is not Paul Gross the actor. Please do not direct any fan mail his way, unless you are specifically a fan of his rabble posts, and not Men With Brooms.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3336

posted 30 March 2006 11:18 AM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I always liked listening to John Diefenbaker. He was a great orator. I also liked his attitude toward Canada/US relations. Unfortunately, he was sandbagged by Eisenhower and Kenedy. (I had a better source, but it is no longer on line, so this will have to do.) Kennedy showed Canadian politicians what the US was prepared to do to those who caused problems, particularly those who aspired to be Prime Minister.
From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3674

posted 30 March 2006 11:18 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"mmmm. men with brooms" - homer j. simpson
From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 30 March 2006 11:51 AM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I had a huge crush on Paul Gross during the Due South years.
Who doesn't?

From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
thwap
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5062

posted 30 March 2006 12:46 PM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post
Paul Reiser, Paul Gross. Geez, i'm really showing my age here.
From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
thwap
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5062

posted 30 March 2006 12:47 PM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post
Oh yeah, Cougyr, thanks for saying something about the thread topic.
From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 30 March 2006 12:58 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
thwap: As a public figure Diefenbaker inspired a lot of people, and Cougyr's point about the shameless interference of the Americans in the run-up to the 1963 election is well taken.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of testimony, from people who knew him well, to the effect that he was in person kind of, um, difficult. He had a grand old-fashioned Tory vision of Canada, but he also had a sense of his own grandeur that was maybe past its due-date by his last years in opposition.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 30 March 2006 01:07 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I followed the flag debate forty years ago. I thought Dief was pathetic, and Pearson just short of brilliant. I was already pissed at Dief for cancelling the Arrow - despite all the problems with Avro Corporation, I thought the govt could make it work. I didn't like Dief at all, anyway.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Yst
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9749

posted 30 March 2006 01:10 PM      Profile for Yst     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I appreciate Diefenbaker for having provided us our most entertaining image of a Canadian minister:


From: State of Genderfuck | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 30 March 2006 01:20 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Arrrggghhh! My eyes!!!
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fitz
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4379

posted 30 March 2006 02:07 PM      Profile for Fitz     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Who knew Dief was a Mason?
From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Pogo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2999

posted 30 March 2006 03:33 PM      Profile for Pogo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My impression of Diefenbaker is similiar to Skdadl's. Some vaguely good prinicples (Bill of Rights, proud Canadian) surrounded by a personality with a ton of faults.

My worst copy always involves Skdadl. Obviously I must be trying to annoy her. I think it is like the boy in the playground throwing snowballs at the girl he has a crush on.

[ 30 March 2006: Message edited by: Pogo ]


From: Richmond BC | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718

posted 30 March 2006 04:12 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo:
My impression of Diefenbaker is similiar to Skadl.

That sentence is crying out for either an apostrophe-s after "Skdadl" or a colon after "is."


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 30 March 2006 04:27 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fitz:
Who knew Dief was a Mason?

Worse: an Orangeman.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Krago
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3064

posted 30 March 2006 05:16 PM      Profile for Krago     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wow! If you go to the above link, the cursor turns into a red hand. Very "Saw".
From: The Royal City | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 30 March 2006 05:24 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Reality. Bites.:

That sentence is crying out for either an apostrophe-s after "Skdadl" or a colon after "is."


RB, I resemble that remark.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 30 March 2006 05:24 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Where's the red hand? Where where? I'm not getting a red hand.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
siren
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7470

posted 30 March 2006 05:40 PM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually, it's more like a red monkey's paw. Shame you can't see it, Skdadl.

Has anyone read, The Other Mrs. Diefenbaker: a biography of Edna May Brower by Simma Holt?

Brower was Dief's first wife who died of leukemia in 1951. She is credited with helping him a great deal in his early years, but totally ignored in his memoirs. Dief the Chief does not seem to have been a pleasant man at all, according to this book.


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 30 March 2006 05:50 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
thwap, if you want some good books about the times that aren't Peter C. Newman (and who wouldn't?), I can think of three:

Dalton Camp, Gentlemen, Players, and Politicians (1970), an immensely elegant and witty memoir by the man Diefenbaker believed had stabbed him in the back ... and the front, and every other possible way;

Shawn O'Sullivan,Both My Houses: From Politics to Priesthood (1986), by the famous young MP who started out as a boxer, progressed to the Commons and became Diefenbaker's assistant for a while, and then became a priest; and

Denis Smith, Rogue Tory (1997), by one of Canada's great historians (charming man, too), who had tried decades before to help Diefenbaker write his memoirs but gave up in frustration - and given that Denis Smith is one of the most patient men on earth, it takes something to frustrate him.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 30 March 2006 05:51 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
We cross-posted, siren. I haven't read Holt's book, but I knew about Edna as well.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 30 March 2006 05:54 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oooo! What's up with Dame Edna, anyway?
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
lonewolf2
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10589

posted 30 March 2006 05:54 PM      Profile for lonewolf2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I met the man personally and he at least HAD principles. He said what he meant and meant what he said.

Although he screwed Canada's hope on the Avro Arrow, he was also not a toady of the USA.

Better than most politicians these days, for sure.


From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 30 March 2006 05:59 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No, Boom Boom: Edna's story is not funny. And it does Dief no credit at all.

lonewolf2, I will give you this, as I said above: the public myth was not a bad thing for Canada, at the time and maybe somewhat in memory. But he was no saint, and the record is a long way from perfect.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 30 March 2006 06:04 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Past all the claims made for the Avro Arrow (many of which, it's been reported in the last few years, were exaggerated), I don't see why we should be nostalgic for it.

It was a high-tech war machine, developed on the very brink of the 1960s. To cover its costs, Canada would likely have had to sell it to foreign buyers, and would have been even deeper into the international weapons trade than it actually became -- just when that trade was really heating up.

[ 30 March 2006: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 30 March 2006 07:21 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I was thinking more along the lines of using the Arrow to keep those nasty 'Merkans in check.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 30 March 2006 07:29 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
He was a tory.
From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 30 March 2006 07:32 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And the country got rid of him, but not soon enough.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sean Tisdall
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3465

posted 30 March 2006 07:37 PM      Profile for Sean Tisdall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Only problem is was that the Arrow was developed to sell to the NATO bloc. Which means that if it had gone through it would have been a Canadian plane dumping napalm on the Vietnamese. At any rate to have the political courage to cancel Canada's greatest, most techonologically advanced, white elephant is impressive.

Also, nobody mentions that Diefenbaker made a point of extending rights to Aboriginal Canadians. From voiting rights to Aboriginal appointees to the senate, Diefenbaker took concrete steps in the absence of concrete pressure.

He was bad at reaching out, Mulroney wasn't. His first marriage went poorly, so did Trudeau's. He was a flawed person I don't think that we should desire perfect persons in a government of human beings. To do so is deluded at best.


From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, Dimension XY | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
non sequitur
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10176

posted 30 March 2006 09:15 PM      Profile for non sequitur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fitz:
Who knew Dief was a Mason?

Tommy was a mason too...


From: Regina | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6477

posted 04 April 2006 01:55 AM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm glad Sean mentioned the voting rights for Aboriginals, etc.

Diefenbaker was an outsider, not a member of the establishment, nor a child of privilege. He was seen as sympathetic to farmers, small businessmen, ethnic groups, etc.


From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Leftfield
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3925

posted 04 April 2006 02:35 AM      Profile for Leftfield     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Worse: an Orangeman.

Contrary to popular belief, the Orangemen are not a masonic organization. Orange obligations are directly contrary to Masonic obligations.

This is the first time I have heard Dief called an Orangeman, but many men were a member of both organizations. Given my understanding of Dief and his masonic background, I would find his involvement in an Orange Lodge suprising.

Edited to add: it appears this is true, in spite of my doubts.

I don't know if Tommy Douglas was a very devout mason but he used the language of masonry in a lot of his public speaking and it certainly influenced the way he presented himself.

[ 04 April 2006: Message edited by: Leftfield ]


From: New Jerusalem | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca