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Author Topic: Harper gags cabinet ministers
JPG
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posted 17 March 2006 01:10 PM      Profile for JPG     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't like this at all. Every day it seems more and more as if he has something to hide.

Don't like it at all.


From: Toronto/Ottawa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 17 March 2006 01:32 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You have to give him full marks for political savvy. He knows that to win a majority government next time he needs to stay in the same bubble that followed his last campaign. His worst fear is having the people understand and debating what he is actually doing in the backrooms.
From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
JPG
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posted 17 March 2006 01:39 PM      Profile for JPG     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
True, he's sticking to a strategy that can work. Man, he just really has some guts coming right out of the gate.
From: Toronto/Ottawa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 17 March 2006 01:42 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Nasty business, that. But standard operating procedure for neo-con fascists, so it's to be expected. After all, despite the concentration of ownership in the corporate media there's still some semblence of journalistic independence left in Canada, which must be suppressed. As we are seeing, the Bush model will be followed, with access allowed only for photo-ops that allow our glorious leader to stand heroically against a military backdrop (a la Afghanistan).
From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
JPG
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posted 17 March 2006 01:49 PM      Profile for JPG     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Do you think this will fly with Canuck for a significant amount of time. I mean, utter silence without any hint of policy direction.
From: Toronto/Ottawa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 17 March 2006 02:00 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As I alluded to in another thread, this is all part of Harper's effort to emulate his hero, Bush. He wants to turn the PMO into the oval office, to the extent that he can. Secrecy and message control are part of that effort.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
JPG
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posted 17 March 2006 02:03 PM      Profile for JPG     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Makes sense, just gives me the heeby jeebies. THen again, he always has.
From: Toronto/Ottawa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
TweakedEnigma
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posted 17 March 2006 02:09 PM      Profile for TweakedEnigma   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well Harper & Bush are cut from the same cloth. They this doesn't shock me in the least nor does it shock anyone that voted against them.
From: Fredericton, NB | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
S1m0n
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posted 17 March 2006 02:18 PM      Profile for S1m0n        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Harper gags cabinet ministers

It's a good start, but I think these high-value individuals deserve water-boarding, at the least.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Disgusted
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posted 17 March 2006 02:29 PM      Profile for Disgusted        Edit/Delete Post
And I'm wondering if Dear Leader's ministers will actually accept these restrictions, and for how long?

Neocons are such a contradiction. They love to proclaim how strong, tough, independent and individualistic they are, but eagerly and slavishly follow an autocratic leader like programmed robots.

It brings to mind the Monty Python movie "Life of Brian", where the crowd assembled below the window where Brian stands and speaks proclaim in unison "We are all individuals." But one in the crowd pipes up: "I'm not!"

Will there be a neocon in this crowd with the moxie to speak out?

If Harper weren't so potentially dangerous, this would all be most amusing.


From: Yukon | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
retread
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posted 17 March 2006 02:29 PM      Profile for retread     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by TweakedEnigma:
Well Harper & Bush are cut from the same cloth. They this doesn't shock me in the least nor does it shock anyone that voted against them.

Isn't there a line in Tolstoy (Anna Karannea?) about all happy families being the same, all unhappy families being unhappy in their own way. Same thing with bad politicians ... Bush and Harper are both very bad news, but they're very different. For a start, Bush is dumber than a bag of hammers, Harper is pretty shrewd. As well, Bush really believes the fundamentalist Christian stuff he spouts, Harper couldn't care less about it other than the votes it gives him. Harper is, more than anything else, about power.

I see Harper as more like Dick Cheney


From: flatlands | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
gopi
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posted 17 March 2006 02:55 PM      Profile for gopi     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Will there be a neocon in this crowd with the moxie to speak out?

I would have suggested Garth Turner, but his conspicuous silence lately makes me think that he's been diciplined.


From: transient | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
TweakedEnigma
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posted 17 March 2006 02:59 PM      Profile for TweakedEnigma   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by retread:

Isn't there a line in Tolstoy (Anna Karannea?) about all happy families being the same, all unhappy families being unhappy in their own way. Same thing with bad politicians ... Bush and Harper are both very bad news, but they're very different. For a start, Bush is dumber than a bag of hammers, Harper is pretty shrewd. As well, Bush really believes the fundamentalist Christian stuff he spouts, Harper couldn't care less about it other than the votes it gives him. Harper is, more than anything else, about power.

I see Harper as more like Dick Cheney



You do have a point but I was refering to there political backgrounds as seen here


From: Fredericton, NB | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Modest Mook
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posted 17 March 2006 04:01 PM      Profile for Modest Mook     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Interesting point retread, and I think you've got something there

From the article linked at the top...

quote:
"Maintain a relentless focus on the five priorities from the campaign. Reduce the amount of ministerial/public events that distract from the five priority areas identified in the campaign," the Globe quotes the e-mail as saying.

That just reeks of "Keep the public occupied with our top five issues so they don't know what else we're doing"... Thats just ugly.

[ 17 March 2006: Message edited by: Modest Mook ]


From: Calgary, Canada | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 17 March 2006 04:17 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ugly but it works. Unfortunately, journalism as a profession seems to suffer from tunnel vision, combined with good old fashioned laziness. If all they are getting is the five talking points, relentlessly, they will talk about them.

In the US, it works very well because it allows the Republicans to position themselves on a binary Repub-Democrat line, while controlling the parameters of the debate on any particular issues. So they set the terms, place themselves on it, and force the Democrats into the opposing position (which is framed as bad, unworkable or otherwise wrong).

Here it will be a bit more difficult to pull off. Provincial governments aren't as subservient, and premierships are not generally seen as a stepping stone to higher office. So provincial governments are less likely to toe the line, even if they are in the same party.

We also have a 5 party system, rather than a 2 party system, despite efforts in Maclean's and others to utterly ignore the NDP (and to a lesser extent the Bloc). So there are more voices in the fight, and it's a lot more difficult to frame the debate the way it happens in the US.

Layton is a pretty smart cookie, and I suspect he'll know how to bring issues and perspectives that don't fit the Con talking points. If he does it well, he'll break through the apparent CanWest policy of 'ignore the lefties'.

The Bloc is another wildcard, that can very easily screw up Harper's message machine.

The political scientist/media analyst in me is watching it all to see what happens next, like a hockey game would be to someone else. The social activist in me is hanging on by his fingernails and hoping they fall from power sooner than later, and never get the chance to run a majority.


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
BCseawalker
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posted 17 March 2006 04:22 PM      Profile for BCseawalker        Edit/Delete Post
Scares the hell out of me. How communicative will the Ministers be with members of the public who have issues to bring to their attention?
From: Unspecified | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Modest Mook
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posted 17 March 2006 05:17 PM      Profile for Modest Mook     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Layton is a pretty smart cookie, and I suspect he'll know how to bring issues and perspectives that don't fit the Con talking points. If he does it well, he'll break through the apparent CanWest policy of 'ignore the lefties'.

The Bloc is another wildcard, that can very easily screw up Harper's message machine.

The political scientist/media analyst in me is watching it all to see what happens next, like a hockey game would be to someone else. The social activist in me is hanging on by his fingernails and hoping they fall from power sooner than later, and never get the chance to run a majority.


Could not agree with you more... I'm quite interested in what will happen when parliment resumes. Harper can gag his cabinet ministers, but he has absolutely no control over what the opposition parties can bring up. Hehe, I'd like to see one of the opposition parties have a sign that says 'Gag order this'.

The majority potential frightens me as well... Harper right now is trying to run as a majority gov't, I'd think he'd try to run a majority gov't as a dictatorship.


From: Calgary, Canada | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
TweakedEnigma
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posted 17 March 2006 05:23 PM      Profile for TweakedEnigma   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Modest Mook:
The majority potential frightens me as well... Harper right now is trying to run as a majority gov't, I'd think he'd try to run a majority gov't as a dictatorship.

Too true, to be honest I think that the NDP & Liberals should be thinking about working together to cause trouble for the Cons. you know hit them so hard they are out of the next election and fight over whats left.


From: Fredericton, NB | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Modest Mook
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posted 17 March 2006 05:53 PM      Profile for Modest Mook     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I think that the NDP & Liberals should be thinking about working together to cause trouble for the Cons.

Unfortunately the math on that doesn't work out. Bloc + Cons will defeat Lib/NDP on any votes... So it'll ultimately be the Bloc that will hold conservatives in check (atleast if it ever came down to an important vote).

Quebec and Alberta agenda's are actually quite similar in many ways (taking power from the national level and transferring it to the provinces), so the Bloc and Cons will have common ground on some issues with the exception of childcare.

Dang, I should look it up... defence and war wasn't one of the 5 priorities was it?


From: Calgary, Canada | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 17 March 2006 06:52 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Susan Delacourt of the Toronto Star just put it in perspective a moment ago in an interview with Don Newman.

"If Steven Harper thinks his ministers are idiots, who are we to question?"


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
eau
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posted 17 March 2006 06:58 PM      Profile for eau        Edit/Delete Post
The comment is priceless...true Canadiana
From: BC | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 17 March 2006 07:10 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by eau:
The comment is priceless...true Canadiana

I like it -- irreverence in the guise of deference, and succinct.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
zalky
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posted 17 March 2006 07:14 PM      Profile for zalky   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm not so sure that this move is a part of Harper's big strategic plan. I think he's started to recognize his ministers for who they are - a bunch of inexperienced, incompetent fools. Gagging them seems to a kind of pre-emptive damage control. Peter McKay has already made embarrassing public comments that reveal his incompetency, and Harper's trying to avoid future PR gaffs.
From: Montreal, QC | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
caliope
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posted 17 March 2006 07:18 PM      Profile for caliope        Edit/Delete Post
I have no doubt that Harper is trying to emulate Bush’s success in controlling debate. Bush has averaged one press conference every 3 ½ months, fewer than any president since Roosevelt, Harper similarly has said he will talk to the press only when he has something to say (presumably not when people have something they want to know). I will be very surprised if he can match Bush because of question period and the complete lack of respect our journalist have for politicians “personal space”.
From: North | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 17 March 2006 07:20 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by caliope:
I will be very surprised if he can match Bush because of question period and the complete lack of respect our journalist have for politicians “personal space”.

Thank heavens for that, at least -- though our journalists seem to be getting more deferential all the time. Still, there's none of this head-of-state/"commander in chief" sheepshit to clutter up the place.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 17 March 2006 07:23 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This was discussed on 'Politics' tonight, and the pundits were saying, among other things, that the reason for Harper's 'gag' orders are that only two people (Nicholson and Emerson) in the present Cabinet have cabinet experience - the others are all rookies, including Harper. So, they feel we've got to get our act together as a cabinet before going before the cameras. Secondly, the pundits said this 'gagging' won't work - cabinet ministers will rebel by making anonymous tips and phone calls to reporters, and this will embarrass the govt and do far more damage than not gagging the cabinet. Oh, and one other thing - reporters will show up at cabinet minister's doorsteps at 6 in the morning and try to catch them offguard.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 17 March 2006 07:34 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Drat, an euphamism. I thought this was some kind of new fetish thing.
From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
caliope
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posted 18 March 2006 11:30 AM      Profile for caliope        Edit/Delete Post
If he follows the script next will be picking and choosing which journalists get interviews and quotes and which are shutout due to their slanted and unfair comments on the good work his government is trying to do. Let’s watch…
From: North | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 18 March 2006 12:43 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
I think it's a pity he's gagging them... when with just a little more effort he could garotte them.
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
JPG
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posted 18 March 2006 06:29 PM      Profile for JPG     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I think it's a pity he's gagging them... when with just a little more effort he could garotte them.

I think it would take less effort to garotte them, as gagging them requires continuous observation and enforcement. The garotte method would be more efficient and waste fewer taxpayer dollers.


From: Toronto/Ottawa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
ctrl190
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posted 18 March 2006 07:14 PM      Profile for ctrl190     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just like in the U.S., what's going to happen is that all the neocons are gonna blame the "liberal media" for misconstruing Harpers' agenda, while in reality, the PM is just leaving the press in a daze with only the occasional hint as to how his plans are going to unfold.
From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
WolfPack
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posted 18 March 2006 07:25 PM      Profile for WolfPack        Edit/Delete Post
I think when it comes down to it they are all cut from the same cloth. We could go on for days about who did this and who did that.

I must admit I am a little disturbed by the fact our public democracy is a little hush hush on this particular matter.

Freedom is everyones responsibility
WolfPack


From: Western Canada | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Yst
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posted 18 March 2006 07:40 PM      Profile for Yst     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy_Paine:
Drat, an euphamism. I thought this was some kind of new fetish thing.

I hope not. Heck, I intend to go to a fetish event tonight as I do on many a weekend (just got myself some new PVC pants, and have a mixed PVC/fabric dress I recently bought, between the two of which I'll have to pick), but the idea of a randomly chosen member of Harper's cabinet in fetish gear is an idea I don't need to have to deal with.


From: State of Genderfuck | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 23 March 2006 01:48 AM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yanking the thread baaaaack from the fetishists:

quote:
17 March 2006

Event Cancelled Due to PMO Gag Order: Organizers
"Canada's Role in Afghanistan," a panel hosted by the University of Calgary's Center for Military and Strategic Studies (CMSS)," was cancelled due to Prime Minister Harper's recent decision to place major limits on the media's access to ministers, organizers say.

CTV reported that the Prime Minister's Office issued an order restricting interaction with the press to discussions of the "five priority areas identified in the [Conservative] campaign."

"In order to keep a grip on such events (those that distract from priority areas), PMO will approve of all ministerial events," the order allegedly said.

Dominion Paper


Gee, I sure hope nothing urgent like happens in Canada. We'd have to wait a week for the proper representatives to be "un gagged". This is crazy and I don't know why the press isn't all over it.


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Tiger
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posted 23 March 2006 10:02 AM      Profile for West Coast Tiger     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well... this seemed as good a place as any to post this. While discussing the gagging of Harper's puppets, we should also consider.....


Courtesy of Rick Mercer's Blog over here.


From: I never was and never will be a Conservative | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
davidc
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posted 23 March 2006 10:07 AM      Profile for davidc   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Not Only silent Ministers but also MPs
Story below:
-------------
39 Silent MPs
The Emerson issue continues to be a nightmare for Harper. I’m sure Mr. Harper appointed Emerson for what he thought were the right reasons, but look at the costs. We now have an electorate that no longer trusts Harper or the CPC to keep their word. The party no longer looks to have the ethical high road. The promise of democratic reform looks totally unbelievable and if changes are made, what about the sacrificing of the democratic rights of the people of Vancouver Kingsway. Are all of our votes equally expendable if for some reason they fit the need at the time ?
What of the 39 re elected Conservative MPs that voted in support of the MP floor-crossing prohibition bill, bill c-251. Thirty nine are now silent.
Is this the kind of party the conservatives are now, a party where MPs shut up and sit on their hands and don't say what they believe ? A party that used to support voters rights, the rights of constituents and now that the party's in power principals go out the window ?Why are they not speaking up on the David Emerson issue. It is clearly wrong, clearly against their ethics and beliefs and clearly not what the voters of Vancouver kingsway wanted.
More than 20,000 in Vancouver area have chosen not to remain silent on this issue, have a look at the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?RDE and read the comments.
"The silent 39" . The 39 MPs are now proving themselves very questionable value to their constituents as they will sit on their hands when it comes to question of ethics. They believe the Emerson switch was wrong, they believe in silence.
Rona Ambrose - Edmonton Rob Anders - Calgary
David Anderson - Cypress hills James Bezan -Selkirk
Garry Breitkreuz - Yorkton Gord Brown-Leeds—Grenville
Rick Casson -Lethbridge John Cummins- Delta
Barry Devolin- Haliburton Ken Epp - Edmonton
Diane Finley - Haldimand—Norfolk Gary Goodyear - Cambridge
Nina Grewal -Fleetwood—Port Kells
Helena Guergis -Simcoe Grey Richard Harris-Cariboo—Prince George
Russ Hiebert- South surrey Jay Hill -Prince George—Peace River
Brian Jean - Fort McMurray Randy Kamp -Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge
Gerald Keddy -South Shore—St. Margaret's Daryl Kramp -Prince Edward,Hastings
Tom Lukiwski - Regina James Lunney -Nanaimo—Alberni
Rob Merrifield - Yellowhead Larry Miller -Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound
Bob Mills - Red Deer Bev Oda - Durham
Charlie Penson -Peace river Pierre Poilievre -Nepean—Carleton
Joe Preston- Elgin Middlesex James Rajotte- Edmonton-Leduc
Carol Skelton - Saskatoon Joy Smith -Kildonan—St. Paul
Myron Thompson - wild rose David Tilson -Dufferin—Caledon
Bradley Trost- Saskatoon Maurice Vellacott -Saskatoon
Jeff Watson- Essex Lynne Yelich -Blackstrap

From: Grand Bend , Ont. | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
scooter
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posted 23 March 2006 10:08 AM      Profile for scooter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Lard Tunderin' Jeezus:
Nasty business, that. But standard operating procedure for neo-con fascists...

Jack Layton is a fascist? Didn't he kick Bev Desjarlais out of the NDP caucus because she wouldn't toe the line. She wouldn't let herself be gagged by the NDP. Wasn't Buzz tossed for speaking his mind?

Its politics.


From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 23 March 2006 10:19 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by scooter:

Jack Layton is a fascist? Didn't he kick Bev Desjarlais out of the NDP caucus because she wouldn't toe the line.


No. She was relieved of her critic's duties only. She remained in caucus, and then later quit the party in a huff to run as an independent when she couldn't even win the nomination race in her own riding.

She wouldn't let herself be gagged by the NDP.

No, she was bounced by her local riding association because they thought Nikki Ashton was a better choice. Equal marriage was not even mentioned at the debates.

Wasn't Buzz tossed for speaking his mind?

No, he was bounced for campaigning openly for the Liberals.

Its politics.

And you're trolling. Piss off.

[ 23 March 2006: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
scooter
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posted 23 March 2006 10:32 AM      Profile for scooter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestion:
No, she was bounced by her local riding association because they thought Nikki Ashton was a better choice.

Obviously they didn't consider winning the seat to be a high priority. Niki wasn't able to bring over the 4000+ votes that Bev took away. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that Bev is gone. But it was pretty nasty politics.

From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
scooter
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posted 23 March 2006 10:32 AM      Profile for scooter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by scooter:

Obviously they didn't consider winning the seat to be a high priority. Niki wasn't able to bring over the 4000+ NDP votes that Bev took away. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that Bev is gone. But it was pretty nasty politics.


From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 23 March 2006 11:01 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
... but it was *nothing* like what you were alleging. Which you knew. Which makes what you were doing... trolling.
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
MartinArendt
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posted 23 March 2006 11:05 AM      Profile for MartinArendt     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Harper gags!

Woo hoo!

I don't think I need to read the rest of this thread title.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged

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