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Author Topic: CPC corruption
MonkeyIslanderPolical23
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posted 17 October 2005 05:33 AM      Profile for MonkeyIslanderPolical23        Edit/Delete Post
Two words: Vic Toews. It hasn't been talked much about, but in January he pleaded guilty to overrspending in his 1999 Manitoba election campaign. Even though he says it is not his fault, based on the standards the Conservatives have applied to the Liberals, the buck stops with him. Also based on the standards the Conservatives have applied to the Liberals, he shouldn't even be a caucus member of the CPC anymore and maybe should have even have resigned his seat by now. So it is important for people not to say that its Liberals and Liberals only are corrupt (something the CPC implies all the time). Vic Toews and Gurmont Grewal prove that the CPC is corrupt. Here is an article where it mentions Toews guilty plea, the Wikipedia article about him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vic_Toews

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: MonkeyIslanderPolical23 ]

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: MonkeyIslanderPolical23 ]


From: Ontario | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
guelpher
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posted 17 October 2005 10:57 AM      Profile for guelpher     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Do you have another link to support this post? Wikipedia is not exactly a trusted source in my opinion.
From: Guelph, ON | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
America is Behind
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posted 17 October 2005 10:58 AM      Profile for America is Behind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Who cares about Toews.

Two words: Brian Mulroney.

He's in their back rooms.


From: Canada | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 12:19 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by America is Behind:
Who cares about Toews.

Two words: Brian Mulroney.

He's in their back rooms.


Brian Mulroney never in his life had the corruption and devotion to self service in his government that Chretien and Martin have had. Canadians didn't like the GST and Free Trade, but no one ever says, what happened to the Liberal promises to get rid of them? The Liberals insinuated that Brian Mulroney got kickbacks on Airbus, and then Canadians had to pay Damages when he was cleared of any wrongdoing. OTOH Liberal Supporters have already started off to prison for stealing in the Adscam affair. There is a difference in Brian Mulroney and the Conservatives and Chretien and the Liberals, in that Liberals have been convicted, and more are going on trial for stealing Millions from Canada, and putting the money towards Liberal coffers. Remember we built Chretien an extra house on Chretien's summer property so that he could house his body guards, and we also paved the roads so that he could get from the cottage to Ottawa on nice roads.....


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
RP.
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posted 17 October 2005 12:28 PM      Profile for RP.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
CTV article

Liberals demand resignation

Another Liberals calling for resignation story

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: RP. ]


From: I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
guelpher
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posted 17 October 2005 12:55 PM      Profile for guelpher     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
thanks RP.
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Albireo
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posted 17 October 2005 01:07 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
One related thread...
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MonkeyIslanderPolical23
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posted 17 October 2005 01:22 PM      Profile for MonkeyIslanderPolical23        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
There is a difference in Brian Mulroney and the Conservatives and Chretien and the Liberals, in that Liberals have been convicted

Vic Toews is also guilty, as he pled guitly, so stop ignoring CPC corruption when it is there. In the related thread posted, it said that Guite said that the contracting practices were worse under the Mulroney government. If you wish to believe Gomery witnesses testimony about the Liberals, it is unfair for you to simply be able to ignore testimony relating to the Mulroney Conservatives.

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: MonkeyIslanderPolical23 ]


From: Ontario | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
MonkeyIslanderPolical23
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posted 17 October 2005 01:28 PM      Profile for MonkeyIslanderPolical23        Edit/Delete Post
I've looked at those articles. They refused to fire Vic Toews dispite his guilt. They are hypocrits.
From: Ontario | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 01:35 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by MonkeyIslanderPolical23:

Vic Toews is also guilty, as he pled guitly, so stop ignoring CPC corruption when it is there. In the related thread posted, it said that Guite said that the contracting practices were worse under the Mulroney government. If you wish to believe Gomery witnesses testimony about the Liberals, it is unfair for you to simply be able to ignore testimony relating to the Mulroney Conservatives.

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: MonkeyIslanderPolical23 ]


Well we will see what Gomery has to say, I read everything I can find about Gomery, do you have a link to the testimony about the PC's being worse than the Liberals? As far as Toews goes, I don't understand why he wasn't booted, but there is a heck of a difference in overpending by $8,000 in an election campaign and stealing untold millions of dollars from the people of Canada. By your standards the entire Cabinet under Chretien should have stepped down.... Particularly the Finance minister who didn't have any idea what was happening to millions of dollars, and he was rsponsible for overseeing the money ....


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
MonkeyIslanderPolical23
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posted 17 October 2005 01:45 PM      Profile for MonkeyIslanderPolical23        Edit/Delete Post
The thread posted by Albireo above has what Guite said. I admit Gomery won't have much to say about the Mulroney Conservatives. But there is no reason not to jump on them like everyone jumped on the Liberals based on Gomery testimony.


quote:
By your standards the entire Cabinet under Chretien should have stepped down....

These are not neccesarily my standards, these are the standards the Conservatives have applied to the Liberals. They ought to apply the same standards to themselves (which they didn't) and so they are hypocrits.


From: Ontario | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 01:46 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by MonkeyIslanderPolical23:
Two words: Vic Toews. It hasn't been talked much about, but in January he pleaded guilty to overrspending in his 1999 Manitoba election campaign. Even though he says it is not his fault, based on the standards the Conservatives have applied to the Liberals, the buck stops with him. Also based on the standards the Conservatives have applied to the Liberals, he shouldn't even be a caucus member of the CPC anymore and maybe should have even have resigned his seat by now. So it is important for people not to say that its Liberals and Liberals only are corrupt (something the CPC implies all the time). Vic Toews and Gurmont Grewal prove that the CPC is corrupt. Here is an article where it mentions Toews guilty plea, the Wikipedia article about him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vic_Toews

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: MonkeyIslanderPolical23 ]

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: MonkeyIslanderPolical23 ]


I am amazed you didn't mention that it was because of what sounds like a misunderstanding over the rules on spending in manitoba, and that he lost the election anyway. It wasn't a federal election either it was a Manitoba provincial election wasn't it?
He went to court admitted his mistake and paid his fine. How does that compare with stealing millions of dollars from the nation??????


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 17 October 2005 01:49 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by MonkeyIslanderPolical23:
I've looked at those articles. They refused to fire Vic Toews dispite his guilt. They are hypocrits.

[cynicism]
Actually, covering for corrupt politicians indicates that they are ready to lead!
[/cynicism]

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: Briguy ]


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reverend Blair
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posted 17 October 2005 02:27 PM      Profile for Reverend Blair   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Conservatives seem to have a fair bit of trouble adhering to Manitoba election law. They ran a fake left-leaning candidate to split the native vote too. Conservative corruption runs deep.
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Aristotleded24
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posted 17 October 2005 02:39 PM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mr. Smith, do date only one former Prime Minister has ever been formally investigated by the RCMP for corruption. Care to guess who?
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Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 02:49 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Aristotleded24:
Mr. Smith, do date only one former Prime Minister has ever been formally investigated by the RCMP for corruption. Care to guess who?

I would assume you are talking about the one who was found not guilty and to whom Canadians paid a cash settlement for his trouble. Yes the RCMP did an exhaustive investigation and came up with nothing. So Canadians apologised and gave Mulroney cash to take away the pain..... Funny how Canadians forget he was never convicted and we had to pay him for our troubles..... Think we will have to pay Chretien and Martin for the stains to their reputations?????
And every time Martin gets off a shiny new airplane I think of Canadian Armed Forces having to ask the Americans for a ride because the Liberals failed to equip them properly..... How many pilots have to die in obsolete Helicopters before someone has the backbone to say that Chretien was an idiot!!!!!!


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 17 October 2005 02:53 PM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ichy Smith:
I would assume you are talking about the one who was found not guilty and to whom Canadians paid a cash settlement for his trouble. Yes the RCMP did an exhaustive investigation and came up with nothing. So Canadians apologised and gave Mulroney cash to take away the pain..... Funny how Canadians forget he was never convicted and we had to pay him for our troubles

Maybe he wasn't convicted, but that doesn't change the fact that he is more hated than any other Prime Minister in the country's history.

By the way, how many people do you know of who would have the resources to sue a police force while under criminal investigation by said police force?


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Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 17 October 2005 03:04 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's rather obvious that 'Itchy' isn't aware of the latest news on Mulroney and the Airbus affair.
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Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 03:06 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Aristotleded24:

Maybe he wasn't convicted, but that doesn't change the fact that he is more hated than any other Prime Minister in the country's history.

By the way, how many people do you know of who would have the resources to sue a police force while under criminal investigation by said police force?


He was hated because of Free trade and the GST. We elected the Liberals to fix that. 13 years later we have growing child poverty, growing homelessness, terrible health care, and huge surpluses in the Federal budget. And we still have free trade and we still have the gst.

Certainly Mrtin and Chretien have more than sufficient resources to sue anybody they wish. Martin's money is/was/will be made on the backs of 3rd world workers who are underpaid and have few rights. Of course that doesn't matter to Canadians, even though he fired his Canadian employees in order to use cheap foreign labour..... the man is unconscionable


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
MonkeyIslanderPolical23
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posted 17 October 2005 03:10 PM      Profile for MonkeyIslanderPolical23        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
am amazed you didn't mention that it was because of what sounds like a misunderstanding over the rules on spending in manitoba, and that he lost the election anyway. It wasn't a federal election either it was a Manitoba provincial election wasn't it?
He went to court admitted his mistake and paid his fine. How does that compare with stealing millions of dollars from the nation??????

It doesn't matter that it was the Manitoba provincial election. Corruption is corruption. Ask John Tory. The allegations against Sorbara happened when he was not a politician. That doesn't stop Tory from claiming that it is a major Liberal scandal (not to mentoin the fact that Tory doesn't keep all his facts straight about the Sorbara case). If that is the standard the Conservatives are going to apply to the Libearls, the Conservatives should apply the same standard to themselves. It also doesn't matter that he lost the election anyway. It was a very close election and may not have been so close if he hadn't overspent.

Edited to add: I said that he said it wasn't his fault, that was my referance to the "mistakes" that were made. As I say, if you ask the Conservatives about the Liberals, the buck stops with them. The Conservatives should apply that same standard to themselves.

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: MonkeyIslanderPolical23 ]

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: MonkeyIslanderPolical23 ]


From: Ontario | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 17 October 2005 03:40 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Ichy --

I wouldn't waste any time defending the Liberals, but I'll *still* join in on calling the Conservatives on their hypocritical bullshit.

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 17 October 2005 03:46 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ya, I think if it weren't for Mulroney's shady deals with gun-runners, like German con-man Karl Heinz-Schreiber, and with FTA/NAFTA being such a loser for Canadian's, we'd still be putting up with the ol Irish eyes and his terrible singing.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 17 October 2005 03:51 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
He was hated because of Free trade and the GST. We elected the Liberals to fix that. 13 years later we have growing child poverty, growing homelessness, terrible health care, and huge surpluses in the Federal budget. And we still have free trade and we still have the gst.


Yup. Mulroney's seeds have certainly sprouted and flourished under the recent conservative (in all but name) tenure. Good job, M!


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 04:53 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by MonkeyIslanderPolical23:

It doesn't matter that it was the Manitoba provincial election. Corruption is corruption. Ask John Tory. The allegations against Sorbara happened when he was not a politician. That doesn't stop Tory from claiming that it is a major Liberal scandal (not to mentoin the fact that Tory doesn't keep all his facts straight about the Sorbara case). If that is the standard the Conservatives are going to apply to the Libearls, the Conservatives should apply the same standard to themselves. It also doesn't matter that he lost the election anyway. It was a very close election and may not have been so close if he hadn't overspent.

Edited to add: I said that he said it wasn't his fault, that was my referance to the "mistakes" that were made. As I say, if you ask the Conservatives about the Liberals, the buck stops with them. The Conservatives should apply that same standard to themselves.

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: MonkeyIslanderPolical23 ]

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: MonkeyIslanderPolical23 ]



The thing with Sorbara is that he was involved with a publicly traded company, his own company made a 2+million dollar sale to the owner of a company he was a director of and then the owner flipped the property by selling it to his publicly traded company for a profit. Sorbara should have stepped down long ago, and invited the police to go through his books. The only reason this is a Liberal Scandal is that Sorbara should have stepped down as finance minister when the investigation started. He was supposed to be head of the OSC something he traded off as a possible conflict, but it is not right that the finance minister should be someone connected with an OSC investigation. I don't really understand how Sorbara could not know what was happening.


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 17 October 2005 05:21 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sorbara should have stepped down when his brother used the family business (with or without Greg's knowledge) to pillage millions of dollars from the public purse at York University.
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Policywonk
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posted 17 October 2005 05:34 PM      Profile for Policywonk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm surprised that Conservative corruption is being discussed without mentioning Saskatchewan. There are very good reasons why there is no longer a viable provincial Conservative Party there.
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V. Jara
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posted 17 October 2005 06:40 PM      Profile for V. Jara     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Where there's smoke...
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cortezthekiller
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posted 17 October 2005 07:01 PM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
Itchy Smith is trying to perpetuate a falacy in his declaration that Mulroney "was found to be innocent" of corruption. Did I miss something? Was Mulroney ever committed to stand trial?

To Canada's and the RCMP's everlasting misfortune, a certain letter that the RCMP sent to Swiss authorities seeking info on Mulroney's hidden kickbacks was leaked. The result of that was Canada had to pay him an over the table settlement of $2M and an under the table sweetner of 'The Order of Canada'.

Can anyone think of someone more undeserving? Mulroney should be rotting in jail, the bitch of some other punk who belongs there.
Mulroney is a thief and a murderer and should never have been elected to a second term. Canadians were guilty of mass gullibility in 1988 but rectified that in 1993 in an indisputable show of good judgement.


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 07:36 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by cortezthekiller:
Itchy Smith is trying to perpetuate a falacy in his declaration that Mulroney "was found to be innocent" of corruption. Did I miss something? Was Mulroney ever committed to stand trial?

To Canada's and the RCMP's everlasting misfortune, a certain letter that the RCMP sent to Swiss authorities seeking info on Mulroney's hidden kickbacks was leaked. The result of that was Canada had to pay him an over the table settlement of $2M and an under the table sweetner of 'The Order of Canada'.

Can anyone think of someone more undeserving? Mulroney should be rotting in jail, the bitch of some other punk who belongs there.
Mulroney is a thief and a murderer and should never have been elected to a second term. Canadians were guilty of mass gullibility in 1988 but rectified that in 1993 in an indisputable show of good judgement.



In this country, except I think in Quebec which uses a form of French law, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Since Mr Mulroney was never charged, and since we paid him $2million in damages, he must by our own laws be innocent. Legally he has committed no crime....


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
MonkeyIslanderPolical23
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posted 17 October 2005 07:54 PM      Profile for MonkeyIslanderPolical23        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
In this country, except I think in Quebec which uses a form of French law, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Which means that Sorbara is also innocent until proven guilty and so the opposition should not be jumping on him. Also, he did not know he was under investigation until last week. He really, really didn't. And you can tell how heartbroken he is. You can tell that he is a victim of the RCMP.


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cortezthekiller
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posted 17 October 2005 07:57 PM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
au contraire... Itchy "who fancies himself the new official whitewasher of Mulroney's evil deeds now that whitewasher numero uno, Conrad "the impaler and thief" Black is getting fitted for his own set of leg irons" Smith.

Yes there is a presumption of innocence but there also still exists a mountain of evidence which would indicate that Brian " the lyin' little Uncle Sam lichtspittle" Mulroney stole enough public money to keep Ben " the biggest joke in Canadian entertainment" Mulroney afloat in TV productions for centuries.


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
MonkeyIslanderPolical23
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posted 17 October 2005 08:01 PM      Profile for MonkeyIslanderPolical23        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by V. Jara:
Where there's smoke...

Thanks V. Jara. That is more CPC corruption, about Grewal no less.


From: Ontario | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 17 October 2005 08:26 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Since Mr Mulroney was never charged, and since we paid him $2million in damages, he must by our own laws be innocent. Legally he has committed no crime....
Legally, he was never formally charged nor convicted. But many criminals have not answered for a crime....that does not mean they are all innocent.

So Itchy - did you read the link I posted, or the original revelations in the Globe?

Does the name Mulroney spring to mind when you think of pasta? What kind of expertise do you think ol' Lyin' Brian could bring to the table for $300K worth of consulting on cappellini and cannelloni? I'd love an explanation, 'cause otherwise I'll tend to think that the sleezebag just delayed his payoff 'til after he'd left office.


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Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 08:32 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by MonkeyIslanderPolical23:

Which means that Sorbara is also innocent until proven guilty and so the opposition should not be jumping on him. Also, he did not know he was under investigation until last week. He really, really didn't. And you can tell how heartbroken he is. You can tell that he is a victim of the RCMP.



I don't know if Sorbara is guilty or not. But I think the position of Finance Minister is not for someone under investigation. I think royal Plastic will turn out to be like that gold company with no gold, a huge waste of time during which the OSC and the RCMP will wander about and find nothing..... The RCMP are really not very good at this kind of thing, they have really long investigations which never find anything.........


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 08:36 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by cortezthekiller:
au contraire... Itchy "who fancies himself the new official whitewasher of Mulroney's evil deeds now that whitewasher numero uno, Conrad "the impaler and thief" Black is getting fitted for his own set of leg irons" Smith.

Yes there is a presumption of innocence but there also still exists a mountain of evidence which would indicate that Brian " the lyin' little Uncle Sam lichtspittle" Mulroney stole enough public money to keep Ben " the biggest joke in Canadian entertainment" Mulroney afloat in TV productions for centuries.


As long as we blame Mulroney for Free Trade and the GST, we will never look at the party who promised to remove them. The Liberals promised they would remove the GST 13 years ago... Things are much worse in Canada. health Care has suffered, we have more poor and more homeless and if you have been to a hospital lately you know things are worse, and Paul martin has surpluses because he cut back on everything but jobs for his friends. Even Mcguinty is complaining, and he is a Liberal......


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 17 October 2005 08:43 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ichy Smith:
n this country, except I think in Quebec which uses a form of French law, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Criminal law is federal. Your ignorance is appalling.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
cortezthekiller
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posted 17 October 2005 08:55 PM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
ltj

Do you notice how these Mulroney defenders spout their absurd rhetoric and then disappear?
Is there some newly discovered form of mental illness I haven't heard about? A Mulroney Mania?
Brian "scarliver" Mulroney could have taught Al Capone a thing or two about crime and corruption.


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 08:56 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:

Criminal law is federal. Your ignorance is appalling.


Sorry, I understood that Quebec still used the Napoleonic Code for trials, but perhaps they do not. they do use it for civil law. They use the traditional French system to enforce the Laws of Canada. The Laws are the same, the approach different.... But you knew that I assume.


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 08:59 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by cortezthekiller:
ltj

Do you notice how these Mulroney defenders spout their absurd rhetoric and then disappear?
Is there some newly discovered form of mental illness I haven't heard about? A Mulroney Mania?
Brian "scarliver" Mulroney could have taught Al Capone a thing or two about crime and corruption.


and of course the little guy from Shawinigan and his Libranos are all lily white and never took a dime....


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
cortezthekiller
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posted 17 October 2005 09:03 PM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
Itchy has reappeared..but not to try and refute the crimes of Brian "the thief who never saw a government contract small enough to get his taste" Mulroney...no..itchy expects us to believe that the current Liberal regime is more corrupt.

Yes, Itchy, the Libs have corruption issues but nothing like the pervasive rot that infested Brian "the light fingered lush" Mulroney's regime and now the CPC party of today owns that legacy thanks mainly to the work of Peter " the weasel in training to be more than just a penny ante thief" McKay.


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 17 October 2005 09:04 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ichy Smith:

Sorry, I understood that Quebec still used the Napoleonic Code for trials, but perhaps they do not.


No, they stopped doing that a couple of hundred years ago. As I said, your ignorance is appalling.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 09:16 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:

No, they stopped doing that a couple of hundred years ago. As I said, your ignorance is appalling.


You were speaking of ignorance?
the link takes you to Louis S.St.Laurent National Historic Site of Canada which tells us that well you can read.....

http://www.pc.gc.ca/lhn-nhs/qc/stlaurent/natcul/natcul2a_E.asp

"From the Custom of Paris to the Civil Code of Quebec


Laws of England
© Bibliothèque nationale du Québec / Louis Rioux
The Civil Code now current in Quebec is based on the Napoleonic Code which, in turn, has a great number of provisions derived from the Custom of Paris which was introduced in New France in 1663. It is thus different from Common Law practised in England and in the other Canadian provinces.

Whereas Common Law is based on non-codified judgments handed down at an earlier time (jurisprudence), the Civil Code is based on provisions and regulations that have already been codified.

In Canada, only Quebec has its own Civil Code. It was in 1857 that the Parliament of United Canada decided to codify all the civil statutes of Lower Canada and to bring them together in one bilingual collection. The Commission of Codification then tabled a new Civil Code which came into force in 1866: the Civil Code of Lower Canada.

Over the following years, in spite of the development of society, the Civil Code hardly changed. Instead, special and independent laws gradually replaced those provisions of the Code which were less adapted to the expectations of a developing society.


Civil Code of Quebec
© Bibliothèque nationale du Québec / Louis Rioux
In 1955, the Quebec Legislature ordered the reform of the Civil Code. The task was entrusted to the Civil Code Review Bureau. This body dealt first with those matters most urgently in need of reform, before undertaking a complete revision of the Code. In 1981, a new Quebec Civil Code was enacted. However, only certain recommendations involving family law came into force immediately. It was not until 1984 that the new Quebec Civil Code, in ten books, finally replaced the Civil Code of Lower Canada
"


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
cortezthekiller
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posted 17 October 2005 09:33 PM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
So Itchy...notwithstanding all this blather about Quebec laws..how do you justify your support for a criminal like Brian " never met a goverment contract I wouldn't steal from" Mulroney?

Do you think that the stench of this man's crimes won't stick to the CPC who also have the stink of Uncle Sam all over them thanks to Harper and his 'Calgary School'?


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 17 October 2005 10:20 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ichy Smith:

You were speaking of ignorance?"


Yes, you fucking moron. Your quote is about CIVIL law. Not criminal. Civil. Just how fucking stupid are you?


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
cortezthekiller
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posted 17 October 2005 10:29 PM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
RB..the answer to that will come with itchy's next post.

Have you noticed that he has avoided trying to prop up his absurd notion that the Liberal governments since 1993 were more corrupt than Mulroney's 9 years of kleptomania?

Itchy the CPC shill has as much credibility as a Mulroney bag man caught in the act of buying hookers and hooch with marked money.


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 11:12 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by cortezthekiller:
RB..the answer to that will come with itchy's next post.

Have you noticed that he has avoided trying to prop up his absurd notion that the Liberal governments since 1993 were more corrupt than Mulroney's 9 years of kleptomania?

Itchy the CPC shill has as much credibility as a Mulroney bag man caught in the act of buying hookers and hooch with marked money.



Having been a member of the Liberal party, Gibby parent was a real close friend of the family at one time, I truly believe that there is no government as crooked as the one led by Jean Chretien.... Sending Gibby to be ambassador to the environment was the dumbest thing I ever heard of. Gibby knew nothing about the environment, but he got a lot of nice trips to europe and different places to study it.... Everyone has an opinion you think Mulroney was the biggest crook, I think the Liberals beat him by miles. In a year or so we will know better. I keep expecting the Liberals to pull a new leader out of their hat, All of it boils down to one family in Canada anyway, Both Chretien and Martin are connected to them and so did Maurice Strong, hero of the UN..... and Brian Mulroney, of course..... I wonder who they have picked to replace Paul? I bet the choice has been made and Paul's days are numbered just watch.
I just can't figure out which party they are going to back.....

From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
cortezthekiller
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posted 17 October 2005 11:32 PM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
itchy
I suppose you think Lucien Bouchard was an environmental genius?
Those with family connections to politicians are good for some inside dirt,providing, of course, they can be objective, but I spent some time in Bouchards office while he was M of E and I can tell you that he was more concerned with having Guy "make that nothing smaller than a $20 with non sequential numbers" Charboneau make his drops on time than he was with saving the environment.

Don't worry Itchy..I'm sure Harper won't forget how effective you've been in your quest to boost the party's fortunes.
You should rate a nearly painless 'thank you' with a whack or two from the sack of coins which currently represents the total success of the CPC's latest fundraising efforts.


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 17 October 2005 11:53 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by cortezthekiller:
itchy
I suppose you think Lucien Bouchard was an environmental genius?
Those with family connections to politicians are good for some inside dirt,providing, of course, they can be objective, but I spent some time in Bouchards office while he was M of E and I can tell you that he was more concerned with having Guy "make that nothing smaller than a $20 with non sequential numbers" Charboneau make his drops on time than he was with saving the environment.

Don't worry Itchy..I'm sure Harper won't forget how effective you've been in your quest to boost the party's fortunes.
You should rate a nearly painless 'thank you' with a whack or two from the sack of coins which currently represents the total success of the CPC's latest fundraising efforts.



What are you smokin? I most assuredly don't support Harper or most of his crowd of wackos.... I might have almost liked a Stronach/McKay leadership, I am not sure, but so far I am left with a vote, as I have said before, for None of the Above.... If Harper forces a vote, I will just watch American TV till it's over....as far as the rest I just happen to believe that Chretien and Martin are more crooked than Mulroney. It is an opinion, in a democracy I am allowed those. I hated Mulroney with a passion when he was PM. I was glad he lost, but think Chretien was a clown.....and i feel the country is much worse off for having a Liberal leadership for all this time.


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
cortezthekiller
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posted 18 October 2005 12:01 AM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
itchy

You said

"Brian Mulroney never in his life had the corruption and devotion to self service in his government that Chretien and Martin have had. Canadians didn't like the GST and Free Trade, but no one ever says, what happened to the Liberal promises to get rid of them? The Liberals insinuated that Brian Mulroney got kickbacks on Airbus, and then Canadians had to pay Damages when he was cleared of any wrongdoing. OTOH Liberal Supporters have already started off to prison for stealing in the Adscam affair. There is a difference in Brian Mulroney and the Conservatives and Chretien and the Liberals, in that Liberals have been convicted, and more are going on trial for stealing Millions from Canada, and putting the money towards Liberal coffers. Remember we built Chretien an extra house on Chretien's summer property so that he could house his body guards, and we also paved the roads so that he could get from the cottage to Ottawa on nice roads..... "

Holy shit...can you count the lies you just told?
I can see why you like Brian "everything I say is a lie" Mulroney.


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
fast_twitch_neurons
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posted 18 October 2005 12:06 AM      Profile for fast_twitch_neurons     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Conservatives have indeed been corrupt in the past, but comparing them to liberal corruption is a gigantic stretch.

Vic Toews overspending by 8000 dollars? Hardly a cataclysm. Martin's Canada SteamShip Lines being cleared for illegal spilling and receiving hundreds of millions dollars in subsidies, now that's heinous.


From: Montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
cortezthekiller
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posted 18 October 2005 12:27 AM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
fast twitch

You must have twitched right through that 9 year period when Mulroney's bag men extorted 5% as a kickback on government contracts for everything from leases to paperclips.

The federal government spends 10 of billions a year..do the math.

Given that so many Canadians have the memory power of dried cat puke, I fully expect young Ben "I'm stupid and vacuous but have access to dad's numbered accounts" Mulroney to buy the CTV network one day and most Canadians won't even twitch.


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
fast_twitch_neurons
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posted 18 October 2005 12:43 AM      Profile for fast_twitch_neurons     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Maybe. I was playing nintendo most of the time, and as such I'm pretty sure I was having more fun than you were.

quote:
Given that so many Canadians have the memory power of dried cat puke, I fully expect young Ben "I'm stupid and vacuous but have access to dad's numbered accounts" Mulroney to buy the CTV network one day and most Canadians won't even twitch.

Was that meant as a pun at the end? As for the comment itself, I don't think Ben Mulroney is a very relevent figure, and I don't see why you would bring him up. I really doubt he'll ever be more than a media personality.


From: Montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
cortezthekiller
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posted 18 October 2005 12:52 AM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
f t n

OK lad...I get it. Your're an ex CPC drone who spent the Mulroney years playing Nintendo and can't see the relevance in my bringing young Ben "my daddy stole more money than Marcos but a lot less than Reagan" Mulroney into the picture.

Back to the tube and twitch to your heart's content.

BTW: I'm a big "Twitch City" fan..will there ever be a movie a la TPBoys?


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
fast_twitch_neurons
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posted 18 October 2005 01:09 AM      Profile for fast_twitch_neurons     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You're too quick to paintbrush and extrapolate. Stop, Relax, Breathe, Think.

quote:
Back to the tube and twitch to your heart's content.

No TV in my house.


From: Montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Forum Goon
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posted 18 October 2005 02:27 AM      Profile for Forum Goon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is what passes for rational thought on a lefty discussion board? Wow. No wonder the NDP is mired in the polls. Mulroney is cleared and successfuly sues the govt and he's the bad guy. The Liberals have lied about everything under the sun, but somehow they're okay.
Check the news, there are more spending scandals breaking all the time.
Everyone knows about the 9 billion that Martin hid from the Auditor General, don't they?
I wonder why he did that?
And if you actually check into the facts on the CBC's smear job on Grewal, you'll find that it's really quite an amateurish job of it. Not up to their usual high standards of being the Librano's mouthpieces.
Where's the dirt on Harper? Hmmmmm? You clowns have been trying for years to smear him, but to no avail.
How's limousine Jack doing? I see he paid back the money for living in subsidised housing when he was a Toronto city councilor. That's almost like an admission of guilt, isn't it? Was it an attack of consience or did he get caught out?

From: Animal Farm | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
equalizer
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posted 18 October 2005 03:38 AM      Profile for equalizer        Edit/Delete Post
Bitchy Ichy needs his brain “refried”. Once was obviously not enough! Besides, he is a Conservative, pretending to be NDP. So liars like that always love the master manipulators on the right!

Ichy Quote: The Liberals insinuated that Brian Mulroney got kickbacks on Airbus, and then Canadians had to pay Damages when he was cleared of any wrongdoing.

Insinutated? The RCMP followed the money trail right to Mulroney’s Swiss bank Account. When it was clear that no Swiss bank would ever disclose dealings with any customer, they could not get access to the money, but that is definitely where the money was!

And what was a Prime Minister of Canada doing hiding money in a Swiss bank account! The RCMP had no way to press charges, and that is exactly why Mulroney used a Swiss bank account! Check out his daughters ‘royal class’ wedding, because you probably paid for it! Mulroney was not cleared, he got off scott free, and had the gall to demand money of the same taxpayers he ripped off in the first place. Legally, he was just one of the untouchables!

Chrétien paid the goof off because they could not get Schreiber to talk. But Schreiber threatened publicly at the time that “if anyone takes him down, he will rat on the whole lot of them, including government officials”, and he made it clear he meant all of the people involved in the deal and it was clearly directed at Brian‘ll Ruin Ya…the Mulroney team was so steep in corruption that no one in our history will ever match it, unless Harper gets elected of course!

Under Mulroney our national debt went from 160 Billion to 580 Billion, and the scum left us a 42 Billion deficit! How much of that went to shady deals? He raised our taxes through the roof, and our jobs went to anywhere but Canada after this scum blew the treasury and passed the FTA. Martin and Chrétien saved our asses.

How did Mulroney raise our taxes so much (only on the middle class and the poor, but not on the rich) and still rack up the most outrageous debt and deficit this country has ever seen? The tax code was virtually re-written for the rich under Mulroney, while the rest of us slaves were drowned in a sea of despair!

Mulroney was the one who massively cut healthcare transfers to the provinces, but everyone conveniently wants to pin that on Martin. If you were playing in your playpen at that time, it’s no wonder you don’t know a damn thing about what that bugger did to us!

As Finance Minister, Martin cut transfers to 10 provinces and 3 territories in the Health and Social Transfer by 1.6 Billion out of an 70 Billion dollar system! It wasn’t this amount that busted healthcare! That was countrywide, and covers health, social, and all other transfers. That’s not what busted healthcare. Such lies have been spread by people like you that some have come to believe your spew!

Mulroney cut healthcare to the bone, and before he left office! He was hoping it would go bust, you can count on that. Conservatives love to PRIVATIZE, that is part of their RELIGION! Privatize the Post Office, privatize the railways, deregulate, privatize, deregulate, privatize…that’s the 1st two Conservative Commandments!

With a 42 Billion Deficit, a debt large enough to make us a 3rd world country left by Mulroney, and an exodus of jobs out of Canada…no economy left to generate jobs or revenues, how the hell do you suppose Martin could increase provincial transfers? People have abused Martin since the day he took office, and that prompts me to defend him. The right wing wants to re-write history, and it’s about time someone said SHUT UP to the lies and the lying liars that tell them!

Ichy must be a big fan of Bill O’Reilly, and therefore we must understand why he is the way he is!

During the Mulroney Reich all of the auditors in each department of government were removed. Eh Voila, no accountability for the money anywhere! Isn’t that how we got into the massive debt he left us? Why, absolutely!

By the time Brain Baloney left office there was not enough money in the treasury to pay for paperclips, and the economy was crushed! So even if the Liberals wanted to re-hire more auditors, they had no bloody money!

In fact at the time the IMF had its eye on Canada, and that’s the sickest and scariest prospect that could ever be imagined. They would have owned us forever if we had to borrow from them, and I believe that was what was supposed to happen. I believe Mulroney not only sold us out, scammed the hell out of this country, but the real goal was to assimilate us into the U.S.

Mulroney was the first person to say this is a New World Order, and that we are entering into Globalization! He knew what was supposed to happen all along, but we were saved from their dastardly plan! Problem was Chrétien and Martin took away that opportunity and made a bad situation work. Now the big money men are mad, because we were supposed to become a beggar, U.S. satellite nation, but those annoying Liberals spoiled their plans!

When Free Trade was on the agenda, Mulroney deliberately changed the media rules so that his buddy Conrad Black could become a mega media mogul in Canada, and in return, good ol’ Conrad used his media monopoly to push for Free Trade telling everyone “it was great for Canada”!

Well, I beg to differ. Once we were down in the proverbial bankruptcy ranks, we had no choice but to follow through. But if we had never done this deal, do you think that Americans would now own ever major business in this country? Hell no!

Mulroney also removed FIRA, the foreign investment review agency, which was the agency that guaranteed that foreign investment could only be 35%, and all Canadian businesses would be 65% Canadian owned. So why did he do that? Why would he outright sell our future to foreigners? That had nothing to do with trade! That was the GOODBYE CANADA salvo!

Mulroney made sure we would be hard pressed to determine our own future. All for what? An 8% increase in trade, and a trade agreement that the U.S. doesn’t even bother to honour!

We don’t know how well off we would have been by now without the FTA, had that %$*!* not sold us down the river! Canada was a better place before Mulroney, and the media was run by and for Canadians! That has all changed now, and we have this bugger to thank for the media monopoly ‘pro-Conservative’ bias everywhere in this country today! And apparently the new head of CTV is an AMERICAN! Go figure!

We are still in really big trouble, because this media has been promised by Harper that he will get rid of the CRTC, and since these few rich mega media conglomerates who own every TV station, radio, and newspaper in the country, stand to make untold Billions each without CRTC regulation, they are going to put Harper in power come hell or high water, and many Canadians may fall for their spin! So if you think Mulroney era ended, it’s just about to take off for the real grand finale if Harper gets elected.


What Martin did for this country was nothing short of miraculous, and I’ll never tolerate a wimp like you making such bullcrap comments. Like to see you and your big mouth counterparts manage finance the way Martin did. No one else could have done what he did for all of us, certainly not Vic Toews!!!!!!!

Once the Liberals finally got all of us through the most crushing economy since the dirty 30’s, people were demanding tax cuts! The Liberals cut taxes by 100 Billion. And by now revenues were still increasing but people wanted money to go into Healthcare, and all kinds of social deficits left by the Mulroney CONSERVATIVES! So Martin listened to us, and re-invested in everything so long lacking in this country after the Mulroney-created depression!

You only said one truth: you played video games the whole time Mulroney was in office! You don’t know a damn thing about what you’re talking about!

So if it is between Martin and Conservatives like Harper and Mulroney, and if you are a Canadian to begin with, you need only look at the facts, the history and the hidden agendas on the right, and you could never chose the Mulroney-Harper-MacKay betrayers for an instant!

Anyone who can defend Mulroney has a very suspicious agenda, and should not be trusted.


From: Land of the free | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
equalizer
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posted 18 October 2005 04:06 AM      Profile for equalizer        Edit/Delete Post
Ichy Quote: Well we will see what Gomery has to say, I read everything I can find about Gomery, do you have a link to the testimony about the PC's being worse than the Liberals?

Well Ichy, if you are so well informed, if you had listened to the Inquiry testimony, you would know that Guite had an arrangement with Paul Coffin since the Mulroney era. Guite testified that he just kept doing business ‘with the guys he knew’.

But did you know that Paul Coffin is and was a life-long Mulroney Conservative! So much for Liberal friendly ad firm!

And Guite was the king-pin in this situation. He admitted during the hearings that he was told of the new strict guidelines, but he himself decided to ignore them. He wasn’t going to be bothered with doing any real work. He said, “Mr. Guite knows how to run advertising and Mr. Guite will do it his way, and Mr. Guite was not going to be bothered by rules from above”. He spoke of himself in the third person!

Guite testified that he wanted to continue doing business with Mr. Coffin, THE LIFELONG CONSERVATIVE because he was used to doing business with him, so he saw no reason to change things?

Also charged was Jean Brault…who is a SEPARATIST! And another good friend of Guite’s! He and Guite had a lucrative kick back system. Guite got a loan for a boat from Brault which to this day has not one penny was paid back, and no interest has even accrued. It was a KICK BACK! He and Brault are on trial for many of these KICKBACKS, and they admitted them at the hearings! THEY GOT CAUGHT!

Moriselli and Benois Corbeil were also heavily implicated. Both were activists for Mulroney Conservatives for years! Somehow Corbeil weaseled his way into the Liberal Party of Quebec for just 2 years and began doing questionable business under the table without the knowledge of the Chair of the Liberal Party of Quebec. When the Chair was informed by the new Director Daniel Dezainde, a lifelong Liberal who replaced Corbeil, and who refused to continue with this shady business, she and Dezainde exposed what was going on, and that’s when Dezainde’s life was threatened by Moriselli! The true Liberal guy was threatened for not allowing the Conservative crew their business as usual under the table.

Sure, the Liberals made a mistake believing Guite was fit for this job, and the Quebec Liberal Party in hiring Benois Corbeil the Mulroneyite, but which Liberal member actually made money on this? Which Liberal was in this to enrich himself?

The media is out to destroy the Liberal Party. They want Harper in power. So whatever spin they have to create they will do it! They don’t want you to make up your own minds when you vote, so they call them Liberal Friendly Ad Firms! Yet it is proven that not one Liberal ever personally met or had any dealings with these ad firms, nor in the selection of the firms! Guite did that, as he said, “he didn’t tolerate any interference in the selection of ad firms”!

So far there hasn’t been a friendly Liberal firm mentioned, nor charged. Guite admitted before the House of Commons in his sworn testimony, and again on his first Gomery Testimony, that he alone selected the ad firms. He was mighty proud of himself when he made that statement.

But Martin is going to be crucified anyways. The lead ‘prosecutor’ for the Gomery Inquiry is Mulroney’s law firm partner, and he gets to direct the writing of all reports. Watching this guy repeatedly cozy up to Conservatives on the stand, and viciously attacking every Liberal, there’s no doubt this report is going to be written just the way Mr. Harper wants it!


From: Land of the free | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
cortezthekiller
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posted 18 October 2005 05:36 AM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
Equalizer

I've copied your essay/rant onto a word document for future reference. It will be useful in debating the myriad of gullible apologists for Mulroney and his team of thieves.

It continually blows my mind how Canadians can be so easily conned by Canwest and CTV and other media into believing the the Liberal Party is more corrupt than the Tories were under Mulroney. I'm an NDP supporter but know damn well that guys like Harper or his boss Bush couldn't qualify to take PM PM's empties to the curb in the real world.

In 4-5 short years Martin balanced the budget and started paying down the debt. Don't these yahoos read anything intelligent?

Try "shooting the hippo" by Linda McQuaig or "On the Take" by Stevie Cameron...stop reading and listening to right wing media wankers like Andrew Coyne or Barbara Yaffe. I heard that Rachel Marsden is a contributer to the National Post. This is a prime example of where right wing media is taking us. She's as scary as Bill O'Reilly..she should be in a padded room and she is given a platform to comment on Canadian politics? Are Canadians that stupid?


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
chubbybear
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posted 18 October 2005 05:56 AM      Profile for chubbybear        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Forum Goon:
How's limousine Jack doing? I see he paid back the money for living in subsidised housing when he was a Toronto city councilor. That's almost like an admission of guilt, isn't it? Was it an attack of consience or did he get caught out?
Oh Em Gee. I can't believe that people are still dragging around that dead cat. Mr. Layton and Ms. Chow were living in a CMHC developed co-op, and paying what was then assessed as market rent. Upon hearing the complaints that market rent under the existing agreement contained a generalized subsidy which kept the market rents below the amounts required to break even (otherwise the market unit costs would need to be inflated to make up for the subsidized units) Mr. Layton and Ms. Chow voluntarily coughed up the difference.

From: nowhere | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
equalizer
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posted 18 October 2005 08:46 AM      Profile for equalizer        Edit/Delete Post
Why those Liberals, all they ever do is balance budgets and create surpluses!

Conservfuscious say: Kill those Arseholes!

Why Conservatives do one better, they pass balanced budget legislation, and then proceed to fuel those big debts and deficits...that makes sure that in future those little peons in the population will have to work until they drop dead to pay off those taxes!

Why give them a $200 tax cut, then send the rest of the money to the Big Blueblood Rich buggers!

Why those regular Joe's don't need a hand up, they need a kick in the ass! Once the debt is so big, and the deficits overwhelming, by golly then we CONS can finaly get rid of Healthcare and every social justice program in that blasted Canada! We need to push people into the Brooks Alberta Meat Packer's mold!

Just shut up, work, work, work, and you can easily be replaced if we have to bus them in from Mehico, and we will sick the police on you if you dare ask for good working conditions! And remember, you're either with us, or against us! If against us, you will be pushed into the ground!

But we can try to talk very little during an election so we can always say "we did everything we said we would do"! Why that's the new trick pony of the Extreme Conservative Reich!

Their entire reason for being is corrupt!


From: Land of the free | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Eclectic
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posted 18 October 2005 09:46 AM      Profile for Eclectic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's always nice to hear someone spout off about things they've heard of from others, but haven't actually checked into for themselves. Seems to me that Forum Goon's comments should have ended with the 'repayment' he mentions.

Speaking of repayment, however, I think it's fair to mention the case of one Stockwell Day. As I recall, he was found guilty of either libel or slander while a member of Ralph Klein's Conservatives in Alberta. The comments he was sued over had nothing whatsoever to do with his responsibilites as either an MLA or as a Cabinet Minister, yet the Klein government paid over $450,000. for the damages and legal fees incurred by him. (If you want to know just how brainless his remarks were and how many opportunities to retract them he blew, just see Google.) To the best of my knowledge, he repaid about $60,000. of this after it was brought to light, but has not paid back another nickel since that time. Despite this, he not only remained leader of the Reformatories of the day, he still remains the CPC's Foreign Affairs Critic and the man who would, presumably, hold the Foreign Affairs portfolio in a Harper government.

Now that we're back on topic, I should also ask the defenders of the Mulroney regime if they remember the names of Michel Cogger and Sinclair Stevens. They were two of the more rapacious members of Mulroney's cabal, Cogger in the Senate and Stevens one of the fourteen Mulroney Cabinet members who had to resign as a result of corruption allegations. That none were brought to trial is because the commission of inquiry set up by the Tory government decided that, though all appeared to be guilty, it would be best (?!!) if no charges were laid. And, for the Cabinet Ministers, none were laid. I'll let you search the rest.

While you do so, you might want to look up the name Grant Devine, as well.

The Conservatives may not get as many opportunities to belly up to the trough as the Liberals do (except, of course, in Alberta, former home of the 'Heritage Fund'), but they sure make up for lost time when they gain power.

Edited for a typo.
Further edited for clarity.
[ 18 October 2005: Message edited by: Eclectic ]

[ 19 October 2005: Message edited by: Eclectic ]


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 18 October 2005 11:14 AM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Personally, I find 'equalizer' holding up Martin as 'Canada's Great Defender' rather hilarious. Neither Chretien nor Martin did anything to reverse any of Muroney's initiatives; and while the FTA and provincial transfer cuts were mandated under Mulroney, they rolled out unopposed under the Liberal regime.

Comparing Liberal and Conservative corruption is a mug's game; personally, I have no time for it. Both of the traditional ruling parties are utterly unworthy of our trust.

[ 18 October 2005: Message edited by: Lard tunderin' jeesus ]


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Reality. Bites.
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posted 18 October 2005 11:22 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Eclectic:
Speaking of repayment, however, I think it's fair to mention the case of one Stockwell Day. As I recall, he was convicted of either libel or slander while a member of Ralph Klein's Conservatives in Alberta.

He wasn't convicted, which implies being found guilty of criminal charges. He lost a civil lawsuit. The rest of what you said is accurate.


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cortezthekiller
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posted 18 October 2005 02:12 PM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Lard tunderin' jeesus:

Comparing Liberal and Conservative corruption is a mug's game; personally, I have no time for it. Both of the traditional ruling parties are utterly unworthy of our trust.

[ 18 October 2005: Message edited by: Lard tunderin' jeesus ][/QB]


I have a feel for where your're coming from ltj but the reality of Canadian Politics is that we have a simple choice to make. That choice is to make sure that CPC/CCRAP never has another chance to finish Mulroney's job of handing us over to Uncle Sam..lock, stock and laughing Harper. I think it's great that the Libs are in a minority position with the NDP holding the balance of power..we need to give the NDP a stronger presence in the house. I'm an NDP member and work closely with the party but the cold hard reality is that the Libs have over a century of core support and that's not going to change...know thine enemy...it want's to sell us out to world of prison industrial complexs and a gun in every glovebox..don't be fooled by a media which is actively trying to undermine democracy.


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 18 October 2005 02:22 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by cortezthekiller:

I have a feel for where your're coming from ltj but the reality of Canadian Politics is that we have a simple choice to make. That choice is to make sure that CPC/CCRAP never has another chance to finish Mulroney's job of handing us over to Uncle Sam..lock, stock and laughing Harper. I think it's great that the Libs are in a minority position with the NDP holding the balance of power..we need to give the NDP a stronger presence in the house. I'm an NDP member and work closely with the party but the cold hard reality is that the Libs have over a century of core support and that's not going to change...know thine enemy...it want's to sell us out to world of prison industrial complexs and a gun in every glovebox..don't be fooled by a media which is actively trying to undermine democracy.


Have you looked at the stock market lately? Since the Liberals have come to power the number of companies in Canada that are Canadian has been hugely reduced. Canadians sat and watched as their biggest and best companies were bought out with out even a whimper.


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cortezthekiller
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posted 18 October 2005 02:41 PM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
Itchy:

I hope you don't take too much offence at this but your're beating a dead horse. You claim not to like the CPC anymore but you sound as dumb as a typical CPC supporter. Sure, cabbies like you have lots of opportunity to shoot the breeze about politics but you have to ask yourself..if you had stayed in school would you be able to mount an intelligent argument and not sound like someone who believes mass media propaganda and then regurgitates it in public?


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 18 October 2005 02:55 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by cortezthekiller:
Itchy:

I hope you don't take too much offence at this but your're beating a dead horse. You claim not to like the CPC anymore but you sound as dumb as a typical CPC supporter. Sure, cabbies like you have lots of opportunity to shoot the breeze about politics but you have to ask yourself..if you had stayed in school would you be able to mount an intelligent argument and not sound like someone who believes mass media propaganda and then regurgitates it in public?


As it happens Cortez I worked hard saved my money and retired at 52 on my own savings. I have been investing in the stock market for the past 10 years and have watched as many big canadian resource companies were bought out. I know the problems of finding decent canadian companies to invest in, because as they were bought out, we didn't get new ones. There is a reason why Paul Martin is now allowing the pension funds and the people with RRSP's to invest all of their money outside Canada. It is because there are no longer enough big companies based in canada to feed the need for investment.
Please try to talk about something you have a clue about. Because as far as the stock market is concerned you don't have any idea.


From: ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 18 October 2005 03:36 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ichy Smith:

Have you looked at the stock market lately? Since the Liberals have come to power the number of companies in Canada that are Canadian has been hugely reduced. Canadians sat and watched as their biggest and best companies were bought out with out even a whimper.


And Industry Canada says full time job creation is down in Canada since Mulroney sold Canadian's on FTA with the Yanks. With more foreign ownership, less R&D will be done in Canada, too. We're just a corporate colony, Ichy, a frozen Puerto Rico du Nord. And it won't get any better with successive Liberal for Conservative goverments in Canada. Canadian's might as well prop-up foreign corporations with investment. We're in no danger of having economic growth rates like China or Singapore, and we'll never be as competitive as socialist Sweden, Norway, Denmark or Finland with Liberal and Conservative autocracy weighing us down.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 18 October 2005 03:45 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ichy Smith:

Because as far as the stock market is concerned you don't have any idea.


Most canadians pay no attention to the stock market. Until recently we had to keep the bulk of our pension and rrsp investments in Canadian stocks. Over the last 10 years, many of the better companies have been taken over by foreign companies. Gradually the best companies have disappeared leaving us with companies like Bombardier, Stelco, CAE, and Nortel. Not bad companies, well stelco is s sack of crap, but not investment grade companies. Stelco was still on the list of companies pensions should own on the day it went into CCAA.We lost MacMillan bloedel, and Ranger Oil and other companies that were big pieces of the Canadian economy. Now they pay their taxes in another country.


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cortezthekiller
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posted 18 October 2005 05:13 PM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
Yawn

Itchy is your typical investor. He doesn't have the cojones to invest in anything but blue chip stocks. There is a veritable treasure trove of up and coming small cap Canadian players in the high tech and energy sector and plenty of us are getting stinking rich from these plays. Outside of the market I dabble in trading MR equipment and aircraft into the Mid East and South Asia where there are also great opportunities for Canadians to invest..it works both ways and we shouldn't be so insular in our contemplation of what is best for Canadian investors. I do believe we should support any political party that will keep us out of Uncle Sam's grasp. Like it or not, the Libs with NDP support and direction are the best hope we have.


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sean Tisdall
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posted 18 October 2005 05:48 PM      Profile for Sean Tisdall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Policywonk:
I'm surprised that Conservative corruption is being discussed without mentioning Saskatchewan. There are very good reasons why there is no longer a viable provincial Conservative Party there.

Not to mention the 70K the CPC still owes David Orchard, 2 years and counting.


From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, Dimension XY | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
equalizer
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posted 18 October 2005 06:47 PM      Profile for equalizer        Edit/Delete Post
Quote: Personally, I find 'equalizer' holding up Martin as 'Canada's Great Defender' rather hilarious. Neither Chretien nor Martin did anything to reverse any of Muroney's initiatives; and while the FTA and provincial transfer cuts were mandated under Mulroney, they rolled out unopposed under the Liberal regime.

So, given that there was a job crisis, insufficient government revenues to pay the massive debt! Debt so high that the interest on the debt alone was causing a $42 Billion deficit, and rising, after Mulroney. NOW THAT’S A CRIPPLED COUNTRY! Even if we all wanted to, how could we have cancelled the FTA at that time? Were you around in 1989? Do you remember anything about this period?

So this is the time you say the Lib’s should have cancelled the FTA? So, now if they did this, Canada is not only in financial ruin, but now we are headed for massive trade retaliation, for not honouring our own trade agreement?

But we’re broke, owe tons more money than we have, and we now decide we’re going to call the shots? And this is where what remains of our business sectors gets what little money they make at the time to maintain jobs for those who haven’t lost them yet?

So we cancel the trade deal, and the rest of Canada’s people are now completely out of a job? Then what do we do? No jobs, no revenues, and we pay for all of this country’s needs, our debt and deficit with what?

Why we’re in such a powerful position now, we hold all the cards right? And of course, we’re not just completely financially busted, we’re going to go it alone?

So now where do the jobs come from? What happens to the citizenry if we suddenly say, no we’re going to stand on Principle and not care if you survive; if you have no job, no livelihood whatsoever?

Then our government has no revenues to pay the deficit, or even the interest on this massive debt, let alone healthcare and transfers to the provinces? Why, we will just add this to our debt, increasing our interest charges? And who would be willing to lend us this money? Who would lend money to a country that has no assets left, and is so severely indebted they can’t even pay the interest already?

So, how much principle do we all have? Let the people go under, and let the country be taken over by the IMF?

So what do we give up to pay down this debt? Oh yes, our healthcare system, our seniors pension plan? And once we use that up, where do we generate revenues from? And of course this wouldn’t have all been much worse? Then you would be saying we lost healthcare because of the Liberals, and all our seniors are on the streets, and of course there are no jobs for the rest of the people? Yeah that would have been a great solution.

And how do you take businesses away from foreigners when they’ve paid to own them? So what do you suggest that the Lib’s should have done? Should they have bought them back with the money that isn’t in the treasury? Or are you saying we should have just confiscated businesses back from Americans? Oh, that would have gone over well?

And how would the Lib’s have reversed the Mulroney cuts? With what money? Please tell me how you would have reversed this? Where would all of this money have come from?

I am dying to hear the answer, because when you are not only broke, the bank not only owns your house, and more than your assets are worth, but you owe the bank so much that your interest cost is accumulating at many times your ability to pay, and you don’t have any options to raise your revenue stream, how do you tell the lenders you cannot afford it? So you default on all of the loans, the entire national debt, including the Canada Bonds held by Canadians?

So are you saying we, as a country should have declared bankruptcy to the International community? So, then as a bankrupt, foreign interests now own not only our businesses already, but they now own the country for nickels on the dollar?

At this point then, the U.S. automatically gets to dictate not only our policy, but they outright own the country?

How do you propose we could have cancelled the FTA in this position? Remember, Canadians have already by this time spent 4 years, and there is no Canadian money for investment left in this country. By now all capital in the system has dried up.

And even before the FTA, we had 92% of our trade with the U.S. So they retaliate? And now nearly all of the people are thrown out of a job? And no revenues, and the whole vicious cycle goes on and on?


• Would you have bought back all of these businesses? With what money?
• How would we have reversed the Mulroney cuts to transfers? With what money?
• How would you have created jobs with no trade and on money?
• While we’re going through all of this, what happens to the people…do we just let them starve with no jobs, no housing,no healthcare, nothing, while we stand on our principles?


I am so very intrigued I can hardly wait for an explanation. What would you have done? If you have a better solution, let’s hear it?

But don’t dare blame Mulroney for putting all of this in place! No way, he did us all a big favour. And let’s blame the Liberals for most of it too, why, that’s fair!

Personally, I don’t find one damn bit of this funny!


From: Land of the free | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 18 October 2005 07:03 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Were you around in 1989? Do you remember anything about this period?
Don't be so lazy. You can check for yourself.

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equalizer
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posted 18 October 2005 07:10 PM      Profile for equalizer        Edit/Delete Post
What was your solution?

That's the question that needs answering. How would you have handled the situation? I don't care about the rhetoric, give us a real alternative.


From: Land of the free | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 18 October 2005 07:23 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Let me straighten you out here: You're just another frikkin' troll, and I owe you absolutely nothing.

Being a Liberal troll gets you no more privileges than being a CPC troll around here.

Martin did nothing. When the provinces were going bankrupt - nothing. No changes to transfer payments, no reductions in downloading.

When NAFTA presented an opportunity to renegotiate issues with the FTA - nothing. Mexico was smart enough to reject energy sharing commitments. But did the Liberals demand equal treatment?

No

They were too fucking stupid, or too fucking bought. Take your pick.


From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
cortezthekiller
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posted 18 October 2005 08:42 PM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
LTJ

Instead of getting defensive why don't you carefully examine the points that equalizer has taken the trouble to make. I know it's far easier to fall back on the old LIB/CPC bad, Left is good routine but that does nothing to broaden your understanding of the realities of government. I'm the first to agree that there was nothing good worth mentioning that Mulroney did except expose hard right ideology for the sack of crap it is.
If you expect to formulate an intelligent POV from the left it is vital that you understand the complex and perplexing reality of Federal Liberal policies.
Just because equalizer has a grasp of these realities and he is exasperated that more left of center people on this site don't seem to be able to give credit where credit is due..doesn't make him a troll.

The bottom line is that Martin & le petit jean rescued this country from the brink of a hell that Mulroney deliberately created and unless we understand that as voters, we are liable to fall for the right wing media's demonizing of the Libs and fall right into the clutches of the CPC/GOP who will finish the job that Mulroney started.


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 18 October 2005 08:57 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Look, another Liberal troll.

.
.
.


~ yawn ~


From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
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posted 18 October 2005 09:14 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The bottom line is that Martin & le petit jean rescued this country from the brink of a hell that Mulroney deliberately created and unless we understand that as voters, we are liable to fall for the right wing media's demonizing of the Libs and fall right into the clutches of the CPC/GOP who will finish the job that Mulroney started.

They are finishing the job Mulroney started. There is a reason the CPC has nothing to offer besides anti-gay, anti-immigrant republican-lite "morals" garbage: The Liberals stole all their neocon policies like free trade, privitization, and bowing before the big money. They are the same steaming pile.


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
equalizer
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posted 18 October 2005 09:30 PM      Profile for equalizer        Edit/Delete Post
Right Cortez. If we don't know our own history we are doomed to repeat it! Only this time the whole enchilada is on the line!

We will be the real Puerto Rico to the North, and even worse, if the 'VIRTUAL' American Harper Party takes over!


From: Land of the free | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
cortezthekiller
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posted 18 October 2005 10:09 PM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
Equalizer

At the risk of sounding pedantic...understanding our history from an unvarnished perspective is the only way voters can empower themselves.

Making broad, sweeping assumptions about Liberals embracing neo con policies is not an intelligent way to inform oneself in order to make choices.

I live in Vancouver and will take the opportunity to support the NDP in the next election. I'm a hard core socialist but have enormous respect for people like David Orchard, Paul Martin, various red PC tories and center left liberals. Of course PM PM sure doesn't qualify as a center left liberal but I'm not so small minded that I can't give credit where credit is due. If it wasn't for Chretien giving Martin a free hand to sort out our economy, Canada would already be figuratively planting banana trees.

I assume that most contributers here have an interest in politics..so why can't many of them mature enough to get beyond their personal beefs and study the realities from an objective perspective?


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 18 October 2005 10:44 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
CorteztheKidder, riddle me this: Who privatized PetroCan?
From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
cortezthekiller
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posted 19 October 2005 12:04 AM      Profile for cortezthekiller        Edit/Delete Post
ltj

You really need to broaden the scope of your knowledge. The same party that created Petrocan sold it off and they netted $2.6B doing it. Petrocan was always publicly traded and Canadians have always been able to buy and sell shares. This never was a "Crown Corporation"..it was a stock play and WE made out like bandits.

Do I have blind trust in the federal Liberals..hell no...a minority Lib government with the NDP holding the balance of power is the best we can hope for and the more Canadians allow themselves to be brainwashed about trumped up Liberal corruption..the more likely Canada will become Uncle Sam's punk bitch.


From: an ashram in the mountains of your mind | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 19 October 2005 12:08 AM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mulroney was a freaking 666er ... Chretien and Martin were smart enough to rescue the federal economy by putting the burden onto the provinces. The provinces, being forced to go into debt did what provincial governments always do; act stupidly, and use the money they had to borrow to invest in useless privatization projects that allowed American corps to steal us blind. The provinces, as is typical, passed much of their burden down to the municipalities.

It's hard to say whether the provinces or the feds are more dedicated to abusing Canadian citizens ... I'd guess it would be the provinces ... but one has to admit that Chretien and Martin are clearly smarter than any provincial leader, which I guess is condemning with faint praise.

P.S.

Just a note to add to the CPC corruption the case where some law firm made an illegal donation to stockwell's campaign, which he accepted, and upon getting caught had one of their law partners come forward and claim that it was his own private money and that he had just made a mistake and wrote the name of his law firm on the cheque.


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 19 October 2005 02:20 AM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The same party that created Petrocan sold it off and they netted $2.6B doing it.
Oh, yeah. Made out like bandits, fer sure.

Except Petrocan earned that much in profits last year alone, and is worth over 10.75 billion at today's market valuation.

Do you think the Liberals were just stupid? Personally, I think they were bought and paid for.


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equalizer
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posted 19 October 2005 04:19 AM      Profile for equalizer        Edit/Delete Post
Announced today that the Ontario Auditor General is looking into the sale of Bruce Nuclear Plant by the 'SAINTLY CONSERVATIVES'! It's gonna be real interesting to look into this deal, can't wait to hear once again how 'uncorrupt the Conservatives are'!

Under Harris Conservatives, Elinor Clitherow was paid $6 million in salary to run Ontario’s Hydro, her whole Board was paid $millions per year each (the Prime Minister of the country gets peanuts compared to this public purse puller). Clitherow expensed $100's of thousands to renovate her private residence (mansion) out of the public purse. If Ontarians pay the debt on their Hydro bills, this is the public purse!

Why, she had a limo, a driver, servants, and when she was fired for abuses when the it was discovered she used the public purse to rennovate her mansion, her personal dry cleaning for years, you name it.

Clitherow had a contract with the Conservatives for $millions in severance! She got the MILLIONS in severance when she was booted out!

This Conservative Board drove Hydro’s debt through the roof! The Public has to pay for this every time they turn on a light! Why those saintly Conservatives, they don't mess around with petty crime! In fact the personal expenses charged to the Hydro bills of this Conservative hack were astounding! Did she pay one penny back?

Of course while Clitherow implemented Harris' privatization of Hydro plan, lived like Elizabeth II, the measly little peons in Ontario paid for this with 300% increases in their hydro bills!

If the Bruce deal was anything like the other Conservative deals, it will be most interesting. And it's about time someone said something about this insane privatization scheme!

Why these saintly Conservatives even sold a nuclear reactor to a foreign company (Bruce Reactor), that just happened to make huge contributions to the Conservative Party!

Why, these are Feudal Lords, and the little people should consider themselves lucky that this foreign company could now choose to sell Canada's electricity to the more lucrative American Market, and cause an ‘irreversible’ electricity shortage in Ontario.

Those stupid Canadians can suffer, they only paid Billions to build that energy source, but now they don't own it anymore (sold for far less than even market value, and they would have sold the whole damn hydro system if they hadn’t been booted out of office!) so they can sell power to the Americans directly!

And since this Conservative Campaign Contributor company cut staff to the bone, if that reactor blows due to inadequate maintenance, Canadians will die a lovely Chernobyl death, but they're just nobodies anyway, so who cares! Why, this is entitlement. Don't you know that Conservatives are entitled!

It was really startling though to find out that Elinor Clitherow is now an Evangelical Minister! GUESS SHE HAS POLITICAL ASPIRATIONS!

Well that's what you do when you're a Conservative these days! Once you're 'Born Again', you can get a whole new clean slate! Why, once they tell people that, they get to keep all the money too, and 'their god' has forgiven them!


From: Land of the free | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Eclectic
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posted 19 October 2005 09:50 AM      Profile for Eclectic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Reality Bites said:

"He wasn't convicted, which implies being found guilty of criminal charges. He lost a civil lawsuit. The rest of what you said is accurate."

Good point, thank you. I've edited to reflect this.


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged

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