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Author Topic: ATM's- Tellers and Teachers
CourtneyGQuinn
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posted 30 August 2005 11:52 AM      Profile for CourtneyGQuinn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Automatic/Automated Teller Machines have simplified banking and increased profits for all Canadian banks involved (too bad the banks squandered most of the profits...)

the time has come to create a new ATM- an Automatic/Automated Teaching Machine....for less then $10 million Canadian thousands of digital cameras could be purchased to record, archive and translate hundreds of thousands of hours of lectures from professors in universities coast to coast...for another $10 million thousands of computers could be purchased that have 200 to 700 gigabyte harddrives (each gig of hd space can archive a couple of hours of lectures)...for another $10 million or so a year each of those thousands of computers/HD's could be networked onto the Net so that anyone (in Canada or through-out the world) can watch/learn/listen to any topic they want, anytime, virtually anywhere

there's nothing stopping politicians from doing this today..it wouldn't cost that much...it wouldn't take forever to see results...and most Canadians would benefit (75% of homes have a Net connection)

as it is now...higher education is a racket...i love the survey that's mentioned in the press every summer...the survey that finds that "university grads make $1 million more through the course of their careers compared to high school grads"....complete rubbish...taking into account off-shoring and automation- i would venture to say an undergrad degree today isn't worth the ink the degree is printed on...a same survey could show that MBA, Masters and PHD's make $1 million more then undergrads through the course of thier careers...does that mean everyone should get those pieces of papers proving they're smarter and worthy of greater compensation?...

i think higher education should be set up such that it's the teachers who are tested and compete for grants and bursaries...


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Being
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posted 30 August 2005 10:32 PM      Profile for Being   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I am not too sure how many profs would go for that. You would have to have some kind of royalty arrangement for them...
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 30 August 2005 11:05 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Professors do compete for grants. They compete for tenure, for promotion, for publishing. Many, who don't have tenure, just compete to teach every year. Funding is extremely competitive (there's your free market approach CGQ), and this approach has trickled down throughout post-secondary education. Sticking a webcam on my head and having me run about town just so the university can commercialize my work is only going to make things worse. Academics across North America are facing serious conflicts over their own work, as some institutions are simply plopping course notes on the Internet and calling it distance education.

Seriously, this is a neo-lib's wet dream...


From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
mayakovsky
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posted 31 August 2005 12:32 AM      Profile for mayakovsky     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In another life, I heard that being able to ask your professor questions was good and that dialogue was part of the learning process. I don't think the use of the ATM analogy was really very good, to me it colours how I think you perceive knowledge and how it is attained. Is it really just another commodity to be dispensed, one that can so easily be given a dollar value?

Weirdly enough, I still think there are intangibles in the learning experience. I had many great experiences being able to interact with professors and fellow students in class. Such as finding out about other lectures, readings etc: that I may be interested in. Also would you want to see a physician who had a plaque from Webdoctors.com?


From: New Bedford | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Joey Kay
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posted 31 August 2005 02:38 AM      Profile for Joey Kay     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

[ 15 June 2007: Message edited by: Joey Kay ]


From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
FabFabian
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posted 31 August 2005 10:16 PM      Profile for FabFabian        Edit/Delete Post
I thought we called them ABM's in Canada.
From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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posted 01 September 2005 01:57 AM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No, we call them ABM Machines.
From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 01 September 2005 01:59 AM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Which require PIN numbers.

There's a name for this phenomenon, which I don't remember right now -- the Redundancy Tautology? Something like that.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 01 September 2005 02:08 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It has a recursive aspect.

"NDP Party" is another example.

There seems to be a need to anchor the acronym in a typing concept by making this explicit.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Joey Kay
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posted 01 September 2005 02:23 AM      Profile for Joey Kay     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

[ 15 June 2007: Message edited by: Joey Kay ]


From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 01 September 2005 10:24 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I work in higher education, specializing in distance ed., alternative delivery formats, and technology/ed. This is what I do.

Last time you brought up this same idea I told you that it just doesn't work. Sure, you can do all the things you say, in theory, but you're neglecting the most important part: students don't learn well this way.

If they did, they'd just go to the library, take out all the necessary books, and get their degree. After all, by the time you're in university, you don't really need the prof to read you the material on a videotape. You can read on your own.

But it doesn't work. Why not come back with an idea that actually works?

And really, why don't you care that this method doesn't?? Shouldn't that be more important than whether we could do it or whether we could afford it? What's the point of spending hundreds of millions of dollars on something that just doesn't work??


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy Shanks
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posted 01 September 2005 10:44 AM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But it doesn't work. Why not come back with an idea that actually works?

Why start now? Seems Courtney is on a roll.

But I guess learning from others constantly pointing out the fallacies of your schemes isn't part of his or her makeup.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 01 September 2005 10:53 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

I love watching Courtney and Magoo. It's Pavlovian. Whenever I see her post, the first thing that comes to my mind is an image of Magoo tearing out his hair in front of the monitor.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 01 September 2005 12:11 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The wacky, bee-propelled ideas are one thing, but this is what I do for 40 hours a week. I know it the way Jeff House knows tort law, or Skdadl knows a split infinitive.

Self-serve, mechanized, recorded teaching simply isn't teaching and doesn't work. Students don't learn that way, even though on paper it might look like they should.

But you're right. Ring ring, salivate, ring ring, salivate.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 01 September 2005 12:31 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ah, to boldly go where Mr M can go with alternative delivery formats -- this is my quest.

Eckshully, Stephen Leacock once proposed that we spend all our start-up money for a university on the library, building it and filling it up with books and then with students. Only if there was a little left over or when we got more money would we start to hire any profs.

And of course many great thinkers have been auto-didacts.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 01 September 2005 12:43 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Leacock also visited Oxford and concluded that tutors educated their students by sitting and smoking their pipes at them.

And the moral of this story is: all these smokers stick together.


From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 01 September 2005 12:43 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In many disciplines the "teach yourself" model is popular. A good example is IT Tech, where it's quite common for students to pick up a few training texts, teach themselves, then write a qualification exam and be done with it. These students aren't communicating with one another, they're not really exploring new ideas, and they're typically "fast trackers" who want to get their MCSE and get working.

But in any kind of Humanities subject, where communication, debate and discussion are integral, you just can't skip the prof. Sociology, Philosophy, Literature, etc., you don't learn from a book, any more than you learn to play piano by reading a book.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
kuri
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posted 01 September 2005 12:46 PM      Profile for kuri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My least successful, least enjoyable undergrad course was distance ed. Language. Not at all suited to distance, IMHO.
From: an employer more progressive than rabble.ca | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 01 September 2005 12:54 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Gee, Mr M: you should read the autobiography of Edward Gibbon. Actually, everyone should -- it is beautifully written and quite affecting in many ways, personal ways.

Anyway, Gibbon was one of those figures who keep turning up in literary history who was sickly as a child, never went out to school, just ended up reading everything in his father's library by the time he was twelve, or something.

He also went to Oxford. His chapter on Oxford is hilarious. He says he learned little there; few did. There were famous scholars there at the time, but they left all the tutoring to ill-paid, disaffected juniors (early TAs?), so most of the students got disaffected too and went up to London and got debauched. Gibbon, ever in character, got disaffected and suffered a religious conversion (to Roman Catholicism), which outraged his father, who sent him off post-haste to Switzerland, to live in the house of a good Calvinist pastor who was obviously expected to de-program him.

For a time that worked, but then Gibbon met and fell in love with the woman who would become Madame Necker (wife of French finance minister at time of Revolution). She, of course, was a Catholic, so again, Gibbon's father, horrified at the immoral Continentals, ordered Gibbon home, which caused him to write that priceless coda to the affair: "I sighed as a lover; I obeyed as a son."

Very great book. He does eventually get to Rome.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
CourtneyGQuinn
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posted 03 September 2005 04:22 AM      Profile for CourtneyGQuinn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
it would cost next to nothing to record, archive AND translate every lecture from every learned proffesor in Canada.....English, French, Chinese, Arabic, Spanish.....record, archive and translate.....thoughts, ideas, opinions shared to the greatest number of people possible...this simple idea could be implemented a week from now if there was the political will....the solution to productivity, skills development, and training could be easily tackled with modern technology...this idea wouldn't cost alot but would benefit so many

and the whole point of the internet is discussion/debate....with the Net right now its possible to Instant Message, email, phone and video-conference.....in many respects an online forum such as rabble/babble is just as good if not better then a typical classroom....here (rabble/babble) its possible to communicate with people from Nunavut to Newfoundland, from Mongolia to Mali....classrooms aren't utilized at all hours....the Net can be accessed virtually anytime from anywhere

comapring a project to record, archive and translate lectures onto the Net with a birck and motar book library isn't accurate....the biggest book library in the world hardly helps someone living in Churchill, Manitoba


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Melsky
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posted 03 September 2005 08:48 AM      Profile for Melsky   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm thinking if we did this really deep underwater, the pressure would send the knowledge into the students' heads even faster.
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 03 September 2005 08:51 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
CourtneyGQuinn
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posted 04 September 2005 01:10 AM      Profile for CourtneyGQuinn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
the discussion regarding the CBC, the Senate and teachers tenure are all somewhat similar....in this day and age is it possible to promise a job for life no matter what?...
From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 04 September 2005 01:19 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
.in many respects an online forum such as rabble/babble is just as good if not better then a typical classroom....

No, it's not. Fool.

quote:
here (rabble/babble) its possible to communicate with people from Nunavut to Newfoundland, from Mongolia to Mali....classrooms aren't utilized at all hours....the Net can be accessed virtually anytime from anywhere

And in the year and a half you've been here you've become stupider, not smarter. Go back to bee powered ocean farming. You know absolutely nothing about higher education and every word you type reinforces that.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
CourtneyGQuinn
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posted 04 September 2005 01:44 AM      Profile for CourtneyGQuinn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mr.Magoo--

i'm sorry if at one time i angered you...perhaps i am a fool....perhaps my brain throughput
actually has decreased since posting here...no worries though....cheer mate

and regarding the bee....i read this a couple of months ago...guess from where...

"And thy Lord hath taught the Bee, saying: "Provide thee houses in the mountains, and in the trees, and in the hives which men do build thee: Feed moreover, on every kind of fruit, and walk the beaten paths of the Lord." From which its belly cometh forth a fluid of varying hues, which yieldeth medicine to man. Verily in this is a sign for those who consider"


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
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posted 04 September 2005 01:50 AM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
in many respects an online forum such as rabble/babble is just as good if not better then a typical classroom

Um...

No, it really isn't. While babble enables interaction, it isn't human interaction. The elements of face to face conversation aren't there - body language, facial expression, the subtle changes in vocal expression - this is what makes real human contact vital to learning.

I can read a book or a magazine and I can browse babble threads until my eyes cross, but it isn't until I articulate what I'm reading that it really starts to click; writing is good, but vocalizing is best.

Any nutter with a modem can post information on a discussion forum like babble. That doesn't make it relevant or sound, it just means this stuff is available. Having a prof, someone who has dedicated years to the particular subject, is invaluable because that person can provide context and illustrate examples.

Universities or colleges or technical schools don't just provide people with a certificate upon graduation, they offer the opportunity to get new ideas and meet new people and experience life in a thousand forms through new perspectives. Without the experience of the last two years at university I wouldn't be the person I am today; by the time I graduate I'm sure I will be different again. The people I've met, the ideas I've encountered, the things I have experienced have changed my life and made me thirsty for more. All of that is just as valuable from the degree I am working toward. I cannot fathom the incalculable idiocy of divorcing the academic and social aspects of university life.


From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
CourtneyGQuinn
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posted 04 September 2005 02:04 AM      Profile for CourtneyGQuinn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Nikita---

the potential of the Net and rabble/babble is limitless....there's cheap internet technologies around today that allows to engage in more intimate interaction (digcams)....google just introduced a voice instant messaging service...text, voice and video can be relayed via the Net for next to no cost

at the very least...recording, archiving and translating thousands of lectures wouldn't cost that much but would allow anyone with a net connection worldwide to benefit

i liken the current situations of universities to that of churches 500 years ago....the church liked the idea of book burnings because they wanted people to learn the world of God inside the church rather then reading scripture...the church tried (but failed) to monopolize faith (indulgences anyone?)...the universities might try to monopolize higher education...but they'll most likely fail


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
CourtneyGQuinn
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posted 04 September 2005 02:09 AM      Profile for CourtneyGQuinn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
the printing press was to the church and the "holy roman empire" what the Net is to universities and the "ivory tower empire"...new technologies won't totally replace existing institutions....but they'll sure disrupt the status quo and business as usual
From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Raos
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posted 04 September 2005 02:49 AM      Profile for Raos     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Not in the slightest. University is about more than just rote memorization of facts from books, or from a recording of a professor speaking. For one thing, what about the research that occurs at universities, or the labs that even undergraduates partake in. The internet is not going to be able to replace that. Like every other idea I've read of yours, it's logic is full of holes, and you refuse to listen to any reason when anybody points out those holes.
From: Sweet home Alaberta | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
byzantine
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posted 04 September 2005 03:42 AM      Profile for byzantine        Edit/Delete Post
This is beginning to sound like The World is Flat thrown into a blender and glued back together again.
What exactly is supposed to be wrong with the status quo viz. universities? If you want free knowledge and solitude (scholarly nudist?), go to your local public library. Where a trenchcoat for the sake of your fellow man/woman.

From: saskatchewan | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
byzantine
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posted 04 September 2005 03:43 AM      Profile for byzantine        Edit/Delete Post
I mean 'wear.' Curses!!
From: saskatchewan | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
CourtneyGQuinn
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posted 04 September 2005 04:49 AM      Profile for CourtneyGQuinn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Raos---

universities will change to applied and specialized R&D labs....but arts, business, law, journalism, accounting, finance, politics...do these professions really require outlaying tens of thousands of dollars to prove youe worth and ability?....i mean, with most of those jobs alot of the interacting is done via the Net, email, IM, and phone anyway...so why should it matter if the skills learned are done so the same way?

tuition should be strucured more like an tangible, tradable equity stake....if you're smart and like an idea a university-corporate joint venture is working on...why can't your tuition be capital in a specific idea?...basically investing stock and partial ownership with a proffesor/private interest partnership....more later...

and i've got so many ideas so feel free to see what you will of them


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Anonymous
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posted 04 September 2005 06:30 AM      Profile for Mr. Anonymous     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Your basic scientific and technical areas would be fine online, as they are static and provably true (more or less), and as such can be memorized or otherwise learned at home. Your social sciences are, well, social, and are therefore much better served in a social environment, where relevant topics can be discussed and debated, and where new information can be integrated as the need arises.

As far as schooling goes, however, you might be interested in John Taylor Gatto's ideas as they pertain to "institutionalized" teaching philosophy. (No offense to current or past teachers is intended with this comment, I just happen to think his ideas offer a much better way, like the one that Noam Chomsky took).

http://www.preservenet.com/theory/Gatto.html
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/


From: Somewhere out there... Hey, why are you logging my IP address? | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 06 September 2005 10:45 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
and i've got so many ideas so feel free to see what you will of them

Still no chance of you weeding out the frankly stupid or impossible ones before posting though, eh?

Just keep wasting everyone's time with your bee-powered nonsense. That's what we're here for — to take you to scho... OH MY GOD! I just figured it out!

This IS school for you, isn't it? Because you're actually a software program!! And you're programmed to post random (and usually silly) ideas in an attempt to "learn"! So you post something like Why aren't we using all these Tim Horton's cups to build Bus Shelters?, and then when someone comes along to debunk it you learn that you can't build bus shelters out of cardboard cups. So then you suggest Hey, why aren't we using all the wasted protein in our fingernail and hair clippings? and so on and so on.

Of course with so many possible sillinesses, and so few of them accidentally sensible, it could take quite a while before any of this "learning" pays off.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
chubbybear
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posted 06 September 2005 11:33 AM      Profile for chubbybear        Edit/Delete Post
When I look back at my undergraduate and graduate studies, I see very little that couln't be also done on-line. Why can't we simply have the lectures "streamed" out to distance learners, with the video downloadable afterwards? Tutorials could be done both on-line and in-class. Tests would have to be done in class, but it's easier to arrange travel for a week of tests than to arrange full time living for many students. Papers could be emailed. What is the resistance about? Classrooms are crowded, why not expand on-line distance options.
From: nowhere | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 06 September 2005 11:39 AM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Too funny! Anyhow, there are a zillion opportunities to download lectures online. Berkeley has a whack available, including a talk by Foucault from 1983. (I haven't heard it yet, but it's next up on my morning commute.) I don't think he was wearing a camera on his head at the time, however, so we'll just have to imagine what the audience looked like...

Note: I'm talking about Mr. Magoo's post...

[ 06 September 2005: Message edited by: mersh ]


From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 06 September 2005 11:49 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
When I look back at my undergraduate and graduate studies, I see very little that couln't be also done on-line. Why can't we simply have the lectures "streamed" out to distance learners, with the video downloadable afterwards? Tutorials could be done both on-line and in-class. Tests would have to be done in class, but it's easier to arrange travel for a week of tests than to arrange full time living for many students. Papers could be emailed. What is the resistance about? Classrooms are crowded, why not expand on-line distance options.

You've just described a very successful distance education model. The difference between this and what Courtney is suggesting is that it still involves an actual human teacher. In some cases this could be a simple facilitator, and in others it will be someone with the same credentials as a classroom teacher. So long as there is a knowledgeable human at the helm, and available to learners, the limitations of learning at a distance are primarily technological.

What's more, the distance delivery suits some students better than the classroom does. As an example, in class the main communication mode is to speak out, either by putting up one's hand, working in groups, asking a question, etc. This does nothing for the terminally shy, learners whose primary language isn't English, anyone with speech difficulties, or anyone who (for whatever reason) couldn't make it to class.

Online, most communication is done on message boards similar to rabble. Being able to proofread a post, take some time to think, ask a friend to check for bad grammar, or respond the next day, opens up a new world for the shy, the non-Anglo, or the shiftworker.

Oh, and you can in fact take tests and exams online in many distance-delivered courses.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 06 September 2005 02:52 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yup. The first two courses I took at Queen's (my first university courses ever) were distance courses, because I lived in Toronto. The first one was a more "classic" correspondence course - a half credit in first year economics. It was write-in, and then the exam was done with a proctor in a rented classroom in Toronto on a Saturday.

The second course I took was a half-credit first year polisci course, which was online. The text was a CD-ROM, and we had a weekly seminar online in a real-time chat room, and we communicated with the prof by e-mail. We did our assignments online and got our final exam that way too - it was timed - we received the final exam on one day and had to hand it in (it was basically an essay) the next day by noon or midnight or whatever.

As Magoo says - it's all about having the professor or instructor there in some form or another.

Also, certain courses are better suited to the correspondence model than others. For instance, I think philosophy courses would suffer from a purely correspondence, text/written exam model - much of the learning you do is through classroom interaction between the prof and the students. It's often how you "get" certain tricky concepts, and it's how you clarify them in your mind by gnawing at them a bit in class.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
CourtneyGQuinn
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Babbler # 5068

posted 06 September 2005 04:44 PM      Profile for CourtneyGQuinn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
i wonder if the human resource department in heaven considers the amount of time people have spent in brick and mortar institutions called churchs/temples/mosques/synagogues....maybe the person in charge of brining in new recruits must see the persons credentials as issued by an accredited church...."where's your baptism certificate?.. where's proof of your first communion and confirmation rituals?,..what about your marriage certificate...got that?...and did you recieve your last rites by a proffestional priest who's capable of determining the worth and merit of your soul?"

the people who hire at HR departments for big biz shouldn't need to see expensive pieces of paper proving worth..most people are perfectly capable of attaining religious and/or intellectual enlightenment without stepping foot in the supposeably hallowed halls of old, outdated buildings....priests and professors should try to reach/preach to as many people as possible


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rev. Phoenix
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5140

posted 06 September 2005 04:53 PM      Profile for Rev. Phoenix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Athabasca is a good example of distance education. Not only do you still have to deal with fellow students and Professors over the net, yet they also have creative ways of teaching other then course notes that keeps a student interested. They have free samples of what one can expect from thier courses on thier site www.athabasca.ca
From: Bradford | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 06 September 2005 05:09 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Courtney, for someone who prattles on incessantly about "learning", how come you don't want to learn?

We're trying to tell you that you're wrong about this. But you just brush that aside and keep spewing the same garbage as though we don't even exist. Any particular reason for that?

And just out of curiousity, Courtney, what do you do for a living? What is it that you actually know shit from shinola about? If your profile is honest, and you really do work in Research and Development, for whom? What field?


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 06 September 2005 05:20 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by byzantine:
Where a trenchcoat for the sake of your fellow man/woman.

Where but for a trenchcoat go I?


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Raos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5702

posted 06 September 2005 08:23 PM      Profile for Raos     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Because the last time I checked, higher learning was about emulating your view of the administration of your heaven?
From: Sweet home Alaberta | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 06 September 2005 08:30 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
And just out of curiousity, Courtney, what do you do for a living? What is it that you actually know shit from shinola about? If your profile is honest, and you really do work in Research and Development, for whom? What field?

Heh. She's doing a social psychology experiment on YOU, Magoo.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 06 September 2005 09:22 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I look forward to reading the case study then.

"I then annoyed "Mr. M", a 38 year old male university employee, with my absurd claims..."


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Anonymous
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4813

posted 09 September 2005 06:58 AM      Profile for Mr. Anonymous     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'd be interested in the levels of comprehension regarding material presented on paper vs. material presented via computer or TV.

I saw an article suggesting that long-term e-mail usage drops IQ by a number of points, and know I can focus better on stuff written on paper, does someone have a link to articles backing this up, or not (ie. refuting it)?

-found it:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/news/0,12597,1465973,00.html

[ 09 September 2005: Message edited by: Mr. Anonymous ]


From: Somewhere out there... Hey, why are you logging my IP address? | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
CourtneyGQuinn
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5068

posted 09 September 2005 03:14 PM      Profile for CourtneyGQuinn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mr.Anonymous---

i'm not afraid to admit that the greatest teacher in my life has been a TV personality...and i really can't believe that this guy wasn't on the list of greatest Canadians....if David Suzuki made the list (rightfully so)...then why didn't Jay Ingram?...Mr.Ingram has been teaching Canadians about science and technology on Discovery Channel for over 10 years

(btw...i think Natasha Stillwell is one of the hottest, funniest, and smartest women on TV)


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Raos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5702

posted 09 September 2005 06:38 PM      Profile for Raos     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
David Suzuki has done a lot more than just been the host of an educational television program. Incidentally, he was also a real profressor, teaching real students, in real life, who were really there, in real time. The reason he made the Greatest Canadian program, is not because he taught on television, showing "this is how things are. Isn't that neat?" he has been an outspoken advocate for environmental issues, and has had an indisputable influence on the actions of many Canadians, and our country as a whole.
From: Sweet home Alaberta | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
abnormal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1245

posted 09 September 2005 08:27 PM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
he was also a real profressor

No slight to the good professor but is there anyone on line who ever had him as a prof? I didn't (although I was at UBC during his tenure) and his students thought he was entertaining. Don't know what they thought of him.


From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8238

posted 09 September 2005 08:38 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here's someone who had Suzuki as a teacher. This is probably the one piece of writing that's had the most effect so far on what I want to do with my life, and it starts with the assertion that:
quote:
David Suzuki hates my neighbourhood. Not my current one, but the one I want to move to, a community I and others of my generation intend to design and build on a little piece of poisoned industrial land on the southeast shore of False Creek.

Shawn Blore (published in Vancouver Sun, June 1999)

quote:
Suzuki hates this plan, so much so that he's written an open letter condemning the concept, and had his words enlarged and posted two metres high just inside the doors of the Mountain Equipment Co-op. Below his letter there's a petition calling for my new home to be eliminated in favour of a park. We had planned to make this land into a community, one reflecting many of our values: a walkable, dense, mixed neighbourhood of modest dwellings, a neighbourhood that generates its own energy so far as possible, and deals with the mucky business of waste-water treatment on site. The short form label given this kind of neighbourhood is "sustainable."

David Suzuki, environmentalist sans pareil, sees no value inany of this. "Vancouver's population of people and cars," he writes in his letter, "already exceeds anything that is sustainable. Our ecological footprint is huge. To talk about 'sustainable housing' for 5,000 more people is an oxymoron. It fails to recognize what sustainable means. I support you in your efforts to make an urban forest in that area."

The wound would be deep and bitter, had not the disillusionment been scabbing over for so long. Suzuki was an early idol of mine, as he was to many of my contemporaries, born as we were in the '60s and raised in the early environmental flowering of the 1970s. He was not the first Canadian environmentalist by any means, but he was the first to embrace electronic media - television in particular - and for that he became the prophet of an entire generation.

Suzuki's great failing was that he never knew what to do with his converts. In the mid-'80s, in my first or second year of university, I and some 2,000 other undergraduates attended a Suzuki lecture on the campus of Carleton University. As always he was eloquent, tracing the exploitive nature of Western culture back to its original Judeo-Christian sin - the passage in Genesis where Man is told to 'fill the world and subdue it.' Holding up a jar of imaginary' bacteria, Suzuki then warned of the dangers of unchecked exponential growth on a resource-limited ecosystem. The little bacteria might be having the time of their lives now, he warned, but with another two doublings of population, their entire world-jar would be choked with waste and pollution. The crisis for Earth, he said, will come in our lifetime.

I, we, all of us Gen X-ers ate it up. When the applause finally quieted, I was one of the first to make my way to the microphone stand for a question. What can we young people do, I asked, the tremour of revelation in my voice, to avoid this great calamity? A preacher at an oldtime revival would have whisked me into the back and shown me how to make religion a part of my every waking moment. Suzuki had a different answer. By the time someone has reached university age, he said, they've been so corrupted, they've got so much invested in the system, that there's really not much hope they can change. That's why, he said, I'm focusing most of my efforts now on children. For them I think there's hope. ...

Had I been smarter I might have asked just what he was doing there, then, besides padding his bank account with speaking fees. Had I possessed more of the cynicism my generation is said to own in spades, I might have noted other discrepancies in Suzuki's message: the Ontario-born resident of Kitsilano, calling on people to live in one place for life; the jet-setting conference-goer, bemoaning the rise of airplane travel. ...

Others in my age-group were wiser. They heeded the Suzuki who said change was essential, and ignored the Suzuki who said change was impossible. ...

...Estimating conservatively, it's likely that a Southeast False Creek dweller's ecological footprint would be at least 25-per-cent smaller than the standard Suburban-driving suburbanite's. Now consider that the vast majority of the world resources are consumed in the first world. If the False Creek model were to catch on and spread to the point that, say, 10 per cent of new housing in the North America incorporated substantial elements of the False Creek model, the result might be as much as single percentage point drop in world resource consumption. Not enough. Far from it. But not bad for one little project. It certainly beats waving a little jar over your head and wailing about the coming apocalypse. ...


[ 09 September 2005: Message edited by: obscurantist ]


From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged

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