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Author Topic: What's the point of Civic Holiday?
Betray My Secrets
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posted 30 July 2005 10:36 PM      Profile for Betray My Secrets     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
To me a holiday should be all or nothing.

Is it not ridiculous that the banks the government are closed while the rest of the world operates near-normally?

What kind of fuckwit came up with the idea of a day in which you will probably still work, but yet can't buy alcohol anyways? :-P

Either scrap Ontario's Civic Holiday, or make it a stat.

[ 30 July 2005: Message edited by: Betray My Secrets ]


From: Guyana | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 30 July 2005 11:01 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
Stores are open, most other places are off.
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 30 July 2005 11:06 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
On the 7th day, God rested.

So fucking rest, ya big crab


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
A longsuffering conservative
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posted 31 July 2005 02:22 AM      Profile for A longsuffering conservative     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This reminds me of holidays in transition. A case in point: Remembrance Day.

In the good old days, more people had the day off to remember our war dead and all veterans.

In recent years, federal and provincial public servants sit at home (along with bank employees) while the rest of us toil at the office.


From: The Sovereignist Dark Side | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
dgrollins
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posted 31 July 2005 03:16 AM      Profile for dgrollins   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In some parts of the country Nov 11 is a holiday.

Two years ago, NB re-added the day to its list of stat days.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 31 July 2005 06:19 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I actually agree with the first poster. I get tomorrow off, but I think it sucks that it's not a stat holiday. And I remember how much I used to resent it that the government gets the day off with pay, while I had to work it with no holiday pay.

But then, I think there should be a lot more stat holidays than there are now anyhow.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'topherscompy
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posted 31 July 2005 06:35 AM      Profile for 'topherscompy        Edit/Delete Post
the first monday of august is not a stat holiday by law in ontario, though most municipalities, and many employers treat it as such.

i get stat pay for monday, even though my place of employment isn't even open on mondays.

for those who do not get this day as a holiday, or at least as a stat-pay, i suggest bringing it up during your next collective bargaining session, or if non-union, in a friendly manner with your management. you never know, it might go somewhere.


From: gone | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Yst
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posted 31 July 2005 07:38 AM      Profile for Yst     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sometimes I think you Ontarians aren't taking this day to honour Simcoe for his contribution to Ontarian life!

...

Psst...who's Simcoe?


From: State of Genderfuck | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Debra
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posted 31 July 2005 08:08 AM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/John-Graves-Simcoe
From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 31 July 2005 02:49 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Those Ontarians who love to hate Toronto may not want to hear that they have T.O. to thank for the August long weekend:
quote:
In 1869 Toronto City Council came up with the idea for a summer "day of recreation." In 1875, it was settled: the first Monday in August would be the official Civic Holiday.

That name stuck as other cities followed Toronto's leisure-loving example and proclaimed this a municipal (rather than provincial) holiday.



From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
gopi
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posted 31 July 2005 05:26 PM      Profile for gopi     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I think there should be a lot more stat holidays than there are now

As I remember, the NDP proposed more statutory holidays during the last election campaign.


From: transient | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
John K
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posted 31 July 2005 09:01 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post
Here in Alberta we've even given the first Monday a nice name - Heritage Day - but like Ontario it's still not a statutory holiday. So by and large people with good jobs get it off with pay, and people with not so good jobs either don't get it off or don't get paid if they do. It really does suck.
From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 31 July 2005 10:58 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah. Basically, the people with good jobs get the day off, and the people with crappy jobs work in order to serve the people with good jobs. I remember it well. And now I have a bit of "survivor guilt" now that I have a job where I get the day off on that day (and all other civic holidays like Remembrance Day, etc.).

One thing that really ticked me off was when they started allowing shops to open on stat holidays. I always thought that really sucked, as a former retail worker. My one-person protest on stat holidays is to try not to go to any store or restaurant or any other non-necessary service or retail place.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 31 July 2005 11:44 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Yeah. Basically, the people with good jobs get the day off, and the people with crappy jobs work in order to serve the people with good jobs.

But Michelle, the people with crappy jobs don't have cottages to go to, so why would they need a holiday?


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 31 July 2005 11:51 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Where's my cottage? I want my cottage, NOW!
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 31 July 2005 11:53 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Yeah. Basically, the people with good jobs get the day off, and the people with crappy jobs work in order to serve the people with good jobs. I remember it well. And now I have a bit of "survivor guilt" now that I have a job where I get the day off on that day (and all other civic holidays like Remembrance Day, etc.).

Yeah, but it's always nice to get time and a half

quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
One thing that really ticked me off was when they started allowing shops to open on stat holidays. I always thought that really sucked, as a former retail worker. My one-person protest on stat holidays is to try not to go to any store or restaurant or any other non-necessary service or retail place.

But what the hell fun is a day off if NOTHING AT ALL is open? When my "weekend" was Monday and Tuesday, it was really irritating trying to find places to go out that were open. Same would apply to holidays... it would be nice to be able to go out with friends instead of sit on the couch and watch tv all evening (or all day, if the weather sucks).

It's nice that we have things to do, such as Edmonton's Heritage festival. (I say this despite my being miffed that there is no Scottish pavillion this year )


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 31 July 2005 11:53 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, why don't you get a cute something or other in Muskoka for $800,000?
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 31 July 2005 11:55 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Pocket change! I'll get right on that!
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 01 August 2005 12:04 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by rasmus raven:
people with crappy jobs don't have cottages to go to, so why would they need a holiday?

Neither do most people with good jobs. Luckily they can be rented quite easily.

From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 01 August 2005 12:11 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ain't no frickin' *cottages* here. We call them "camps". As in, "I'm going to my camp for the weekend."
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 01 August 2005 04:28 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Betray My Secrets:

Either scrap Ontario's Civic Holiday, or make it a stat.

I think they only hold it because Honda bribed them big time, anyway.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
A longsuffering conservative
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posted 01 August 2005 06:12 AM      Profile for A longsuffering conservative     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
QUESTION: For those who summer in Muskoka.

As "smog days" continue to increase, is it true that you can leave for the cottage on Friday and often enjoy the same smog conditions as TO while "relaxing" at the cottage?

If so, what's the point, the appeal? Might as well get your lung diseases in Metro rather than head off to the cottage to get the same end result?

Hopefully, it isn't as bad in cottage country.


From: The Sovereignist Dark Side | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 01 August 2005 06:16 AM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Michelle, why should there be more stat holidays?
From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 01 August 2005 08:08 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What is this thing that you all are calling a holiday?
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ephemeral
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posted 01 August 2005 08:27 AM      Profile for ephemeral     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
oh dear, is it august already? is this the long weekend, or is it the next one? el unemploydo here (and apparently, skdadl too) can't tell a holiday from any other day.

if i had a job, i would prefer siestas to stat holidays - especially in the summer. work from 9-1, break for lunch and afternoon nap till 3:30, work from 3:30 to 6:30. and no, i don't think our economy will crumble just because we take a nap. i think we may actually find ourselves working more efficiently.


From: under a bridge with a laptop | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 01 August 2005 08:57 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hailey:
Michelle, why should there be more stat holidays?

Because everyone needs a day off here and there. And for stat holidays, even people who are employed in minimum wage jobs have to get the day off with pay, or get time and a half for working it. And personally, I think the holiday pay should be higher too - I think it should be double or triple time, to give shitwage employers more incentive to close their business for the day and give their employees a day off. Actually, I think stores just shouldn't be allowed to be open on stat holidays, period, that way they can't pressure their staff to work the day if they'd rather have the day off.

One thing that I was lucky about when I was working minimum wage is that my employer was so damned cheap that even the prospect of paying time and a half made him close the store.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 01 August 2005 08:58 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Naps are great. I am a great fan of the nap. It's amazing what just twenty minutes, half an hour, can do for both the alertness level and the aching neck. All you unionized sorts, negotiate that as well next time your contract comes up.

Am I underemployed or am I perpetually employed -- that is the question. The work, it just never goes away. Maybe that's why I need naps.


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Boom Boom
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posted 01 August 2005 09:19 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I love a twenty minute nap after lunch or supper. In the '70's I worked out of a federal office in Ottawa, and the building housed a great restaurant that always made huge, hot lunches that were very soporific. A few of us took to going across the road to Nate's Deli or Harvey's instead, because we just couldn't function right after a big lunch (the brief walk was good for us as well). Since I moved to the coast in 1995, I usually try to grab a 20 minute siesta after a heavy lunch or supper. Works for me, as long as I'm able to get busy or go for a bike ride right after the siesta.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 01 August 2005 11:52 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No 'civic holiday' here - everything's open - caisse populaire, post office, airline service, stores.....
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
optimuscrime
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posted 04 August 2005 12:08 AM      Profile for optimuscrime   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hailey:
Michelle, why should there be more stat holidays?

I'm not convinced there should be.

It *can* amount to an increase in the statutory minimum wage (as most commercial businesses stay open but pay minimum-wage earners a premium) But for other waged employees, it's simply an unpaid day off.

And if - as someone here suggested - the holiday were to be made truly compulsory for all employers... well, then, it's essentially a regressive form of redistribution. If one earns an annual salary of $75,000 (with, say, 11 statutory days off and 15 days of leave by contract), the additional day off is worth about $220 or so. By contrast, a waged employee's extra day might be worth under $100.

Beyond which, almost every job above the minimum wage level is adjusted to account for and cancel out the effect of statutory holidays. One of my first jobs was at "$X, including 4% vacation pay". The employer simply took the wage they were willing to offer and then regressed back to the base wage they would need in order to make the total rate equal to their intended wage. This is pretty standard practice, from what I've seen.

What I'm getting at, I think, is that it's a hideously ineffective way of redistributing income, increasing the minimum level of compensation relative to work, or allowing for leisure time.

I'm a 'dipper through and through, but the extra-holiday proposal was half-baked.


From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Amy
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posted 04 August 2005 04:47 AM      Profile for Amy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

One thing that I was lucky about when I was working minimum wage is that my employer was so damned cheap that even the prospect of paying time and a half made him close the store.

Grah! In BC a couple years ago, they extended the length of time that you had to work at a place to qualify for stat pay. For me that meant the fun of one manager and all new-ish employees (including me, of course) at a place that parents took their kids on days off school to get 'school clothes'. I think that was one of my only 8 hour shifts. Fun stuff, I tell ya. Like, really, pay me what everyone else in the miserable mall gets paid, or don't make me work.


From: the whole town erupts and/ bursts into flame | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 04 August 2005 08:02 AM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Because everyone needs a day off here and there

That's what vacation days are for!

quote:
And personally, I think the holiday pay should be higher too - I think it should be double or triple time, to give shitwage employers more incentive to close their business for the day and give their employees a day off. Actually, I think stores just shouldn't be allowed to be open on stat holidays, period, that way they can't pressure their staff to work the day if they'd rather have the day off.

I agree that the holiday pay should be higher - double time.

I don't agree with stores being closed on that day. I see that as a private business decision and not something that requires government intervention. I also think it's just plain inconvenient to have them closed.

I remember in University when we worked part time around our studies we all wanted to work the stats because we brought home some extra cash because of the wage difference. I don't remember any of us feeling under duress to do it.


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 04 August 2005 09:00 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
In the places I've worked we've never had a problem finding staff for stats either, including Christmas. Of course there was also reduced need for staff on holidays. In a business that needs full staff it might be harder.

Vacation days are well and good, but common, scheduled days are important too, especially for people in situations where the time never seems right for a vacation - quite common in middle management.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged

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