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Author Topic: Libby Davies calls Jason Kenney an idiot
Reality. Bites.
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posted 13 February 2005 10:11 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
And it seems she was being too kind.

http://tinyurl.com/65xnb

quote:
The fact is that homosexuals aren't barred from marrying under Canadian law," Kenney said at the meeting of the Punjabi Press Club last month in Brampton, Ontario.
"Marriage is open to everybody, as long as they're a man and a woman," said Kenney.

"It doesn't say you can't marry if you're a homosexual. The fact is that homosexuals have been married and do marry."

Former NDP MP Svend Robinson was once married to a woman, noted Kenney. He also said that NDP MP Libby Davies was once married to a man.

Davies, the Vancouver member of Parliament who is openly lesbian, corrected the record Sunday to say she's never been married, but did live with her male partner for 24 years until he died of cancer in 1997.

"I thought I'd heard it all," said Davies. "I wouldn't expect too much out of Jason Kenney on this (subject), but this is absolutely absurd.

"If there was an award for making an idiotic statement, this guy would get it."



From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 13 February 2005 10:23 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Jason Kenney is one of the smarmiest folks I've seen in Question Period. Even worse than former PM Mulroney. Ugh.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 13 February 2005 10:33 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I guess I'll promote a minority view!

I think that the MP is being pretty disingenuine. That argument has been made several times - it's silly I agree but it's not new.

And Jason Kenney has been consistent about his beliefs on various issues from day one. He is nothing if not CLEAR.

Carolyn Parrish who is voting AGAINST her conscience has been given respect here for being consistent between her spoken intentions at election time and her current action plan. I'm baffled why that is the way she is responded to but Mr. Kenney is not treated comparably?

If he is wrong - then so is the doll-stomper.


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hunky_Monkey
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posted 13 February 2005 11:05 PM      Profile for Hunky_Monkey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Way too many "bizarre" arguments from "bizarre" MPs. Jason Kenney is just one of many.
From: Halifax | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 14 February 2005 03:07 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hailey:
I guess I'll promote a minority view!

I think that the MP is being pretty disingenuine. That argument has been made several times - it's silly I agree but it's not new.


You're right, Hailey, I agree. It is NOT a new idea. But it was a stupid idea when it was first circulated, and it still is.

Presumably, Kenny is fine then with gay men and lesbians lying to their prospective spouses, and living their lives in misery. And apparently (according to these low-lifes) gays and lesbians are a threat to kids when there are two of them raising kids in an honest and open relationship... but it's okay when there's only one, and they're living a lie in the closet. What an absolute asshole...

As long as Kenny is so eager to bring forth discredited ideas, can it be long before he starts passing around copies of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? I understand there's an eager market for *that*, too.


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 14 February 2005 07:40 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
Parrish has been saying this since before the election. There is no change in her policy.

As for Kenney, it helps explain things like:

quote:
OTTAWA -- Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, bracing for the launch this week of a parliamentary debate on gay marriage, has made the controversial and unprecedented move of requiring his MPs to vet their speeches with his office.

The decision, announced at last week's caucus meeting, got a mixed response from MPs in a party that is rooted in Western Canada's tradition of populism and grassroots politics.

Some say the move is prudent, given how some MPs from the former Canadian Alliance and Conservative parties have caused enormous controversy and damaged the party's interests during past debates on minority-rights issues.


http://tinyurl.com/3n46p

Scared your party will show its true face, Stephen? Don't worry. Your face is quite scary enough.


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Briguy
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posted 14 February 2005 10:53 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Some smartass reporter should ask Jason Kenney when he's coming out of the closet.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 14 February 2005 11:04 AM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mr. Kenney is actually a very devout RC member. I know that he's talked about a desire to get married but it's not something that's happened in his life.

He's speaking as a keynote speaker April 29th and April 30th in Edmonton (if his speech passes Mr. Harper's approval!). I've heard him speak in the past - like him or dislike him - he's authentic and true to his word, he's consistent, he's clear, he doesn't mince words, he doesn't change on a dime. You know what you get when you vote for him.

I sincerely disagree with him on this issue and on others but I don't think he's this demonic spirit that all you seem to!


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
johnpauljones
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posted 14 February 2005 11:10 AM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Kenny is an idiot. But that has nothing to do with his sexual orientation.

It is a good thing that the question would be about a closet rather than a bedroom since as PET said:

"the state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation."

We have had gay and lesbian members of the House of Commons and every legislature who have not come out of the closet or been forced out regardless of their political affiliation.

My brother is my focus group of one regarding coming out of the closet. His reply has always been that you can not force someone out. Rather they have to want to come out.

Yes we have had CPC-Reform-PC, Liberal, Bloc, NDP, Socred gay members who have not been forced out. To want to out one today is an insult to those who still believe in a persons freedom of choice.

I for one still hold this to be true.


From: City of Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 14 February 2005 11:15 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I know that he's talked about a desire to get married but it's not something that's happened in his life.

Colour me not surprised.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 14 February 2005 11:19 AM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I would quibble with the title of this thread. She didn't call him an idiot, she said his statement was idiotic. Subtle distinction there. That said, Kenney is an idiot who makes idiotic statements.
From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
VanLuke
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posted 14 February 2005 12:24 PM      Profile for VanLuke     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hailey:
Mr. Kenney is actually a very devout RC member.

I'd be wary of using this as a defense for the man and I think you know why. (I assume RC stands for Roman Catholic)


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 14 February 2005 12:40 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's pretty clear from that CTV report that Kenney's speech was opportunistic sleaze. Not enough to patronize gays and lesbians; let's patronize the ethnics while we're at it. How very jolly.

Kenney is a clown. He has always been a clown. And there's an obvious explanation for his confirmed bachelorhood: anyone so in love with his own reflection has little need of a wife.

(I can't tell you how many adjectives referring to his swelling chins and neck I have repeatedly cut from this post while composing. But lookism is against babble policy, and I'm in favour of that policy, I swear.)


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 14 February 2005 12:46 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Contrarian:
I would quibble with the title of this thread. She didn't call him an idiot, she said his statement was idiotic. Subtle distinction there.

Yes, I know. However I didn't want to say "LD calls Jason Kenney's statement idiotic" because that would imply I'm expecting people to know what he said, and "LD calls Jason Kenney's statement that gays and lesbians are free to marry the opposite sex idiotic" would just be too long.


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Rufus Polson
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posted 14 February 2005 03:51 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Presumably if Kenney's statement is OK, Hailey, you would also be OK with *only* gay marriage being allowed. It's not like heteros wouldn't be able to get married--they could marry someone of the same sex, so that would be OK, right? Just because it's not their preferred gender, what makes that such a big deal?
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Blueiris46
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posted 14 February 2005 04:07 PM      Profile for Blueiris46     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And, the point is they can't marry the person they love...

Happy Valentines day!


From: TOP OF THE MORNING | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Blueiris46
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posted 14 February 2005 04:08 PM      Profile for Blueiris46     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And, the point is they can't marry the person they love...

Happy Valentines day!

Oh, and Mr Kenny?

I saw him once on television where he was being a 'pundit' and finally the host in a rare moment of patriotism, said in response to his rah, rah ain't America the cat's pjs and let's give em our assets, said to him, what about some loyalty and patriotism to Canada? He couldn't respond and looked shocked.

[ 14 February 2005: Message edited by: Blueiris46 ]


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Hephaestion
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posted 14 February 2005 04:46 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by johnpauljones:
...We have had gay and lesbian members of the House of Commons and every legislature who have not come out of the closet or been forced out regardless of their political affiliation.

My brother is my focus group of one regarding coming out of the closet. His reply has always been that you can not force someone out. Rather they have to want to come out.

Yes we have had CPC-Reform-PC, Liberal, Bloc, NDP, Socred gay members who have not been forced out. To want to out one today is an insult to those who still believe in a persons freedom of choice.

I for one still hold this to be true.


In general I agree with you. It is a personal decision. HowEVER... if any LGBT person, particularly one in a position of authority, is behaving like a homophobic ass and using their influence or their authority to harm my community while remaining safely in the closet themselves...?

I'd out the bastards in a second without compunction, regrets or apologies. In a friggin' HEARTBEAT.


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 14 February 2005 07:17 PM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hailey:
Mr. Kenney is actually a very devout RC member. I know that he's talked about a desire to get married but it's not something that's happened in his life.

Well, i don't know how "devout" is Mr. Kenney. I heard him speak at a public forum in the run up to the Iraq war. (A war which, we all remember, the conservatives wanted in on rather badly.)

When asked about his religion and the Pope's view of the war, Kenney said that the Catholic Church hosted a web site in which it set out the criteria for a "Just War". Kenney said that the Iraq war met all those criteria.

Really? Too bad nobody told the Pope who was very much against the Iraq invasion.

It takes some kind of special to stand up in a public forum with your bare face hanging out and flat out lie about the Pope's stance on an issue. I'm not Catholic, but i rather feel that there might be some sort of retribution from mother church for that kind of nonsense.

I didn't know Kenney was a bachelor. If indeed he is a closeted, self- denying gay man, that could explain why he always looks so uncomfortable in his own skin.


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 14 February 2005 07:53 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Regarding the comment that Kenney is a very devout RC, first, how does one know this, and second, should we be posting this stuff? like, maybe it's none of our business?
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 14 February 2005 07:56 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I've heard Kenney mention on CBC, CTV, etc. He's made his religion a matter of public record, not us.
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 14 February 2005 07:57 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
Yes, along with his history in the United States of fighting gay rights. He's a pig.
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Boom Boom
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posted 14 February 2005 08:02 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Coyote:
I've heard Kenney mention on CBC, CTV, etc. He's made his religion a matter of public record, not us.

Oh, okay. I've heard him say really dumb things, but I've never heard him discuss his religion. Thanks, all.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Burns
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posted 14 February 2005 08:27 PM      Profile for Burns   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Jason Kenney screams self-hating queer to me. I remember when he was bragging about his celibacy to the laughter of most observers. A ridiculously prim and proper man in his twenties who refuses to date women? Hmmm.

I'm sure the above-posted comments reflect his genuine belief: that gays and lesbians should enter into loveless sham marriages with unsuspecting heteros who will then suffer decades of loneliness and depression while their husband goes to get his wang sucked by strangers in parking lots.

The upside to all this is that, if I'm right, there is a possibility that Kenney will finally shed the guilt, come out and (like many who stayed too long in the closet) be ridiculously flaming when he does.

Could be entertaining.

[ 14 February 2005: Message edited by: Burns ]


From: ... is everything. Location! Location! Location! | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 14 February 2005 09:21 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
Kenney is a clown. He has always been a clown. And there's an obvious explanation for his confirmed bachelorhood: anyone so in love with his own reflection has little need of a wife.

One must also assume him to be very in love with his own voice.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
TeamNeedles
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posted 14 February 2005 10:27 PM      Profile for TeamNeedles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Regular people think before they speak. Why don't politicians?
From: Waterloo, Ontario | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
the grey
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posted 14 February 2005 10:49 PM      Profile for the grey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by TeamNeedles:
Regular people think before they speak. Why don't politicians?

I was about to respond, but then I thought better before I clicked "Add Reply".


From: London, Ontario | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 14 February 2005 10:53 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"Engage Brain Before Putting Mouth In Gear"
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 15 February 2005 04:12 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Still waiting for someone to defend Kenney...

Leuca...? Springer...? Quaggy....?

Anyone? Anyone? Beuhler?


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 15 February 2005 06:05 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Believe it or not a few years ago I had the debatable honour of meeting Stephen Harper in person(before he became leader). He actually gossiped with me that he thought Kenney was a "closet gay".
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 15 February 2005 07:58 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestion:
Still waiting for someone to defend Kenney...

Why would you want any of them to speak when they're being blissfully silent? Because they make Kenney look smart?


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Hephaestion
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posted 15 February 2005 10:50 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:
Why would you want any of them to speak when they're being blissfully silent? Because they make Kenney look smart?

Just pointing out the sudden (and uncharacteristic) silence. Guess they're still getting their "briefing notes" in order...


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 15 February 2005 11:27 AM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No, Rufus, of course it's not okay. I just don't understand why Kenney is being lambasted so aggressively but, somehow, Carolyn Parrish who is voting against her conscience isn't getting much opposition. Strange to me.

Jason Kenney has *always* held this position, got elected on this position, is unapologetic about his position, etc.

And Boom Boom Mr. Kenney speaks openly about his faith, how it has led him to wait to have sexual relations until marriage, to engage in prayer with other conservative and liberal members, to host prolife gatherings (he'll be speaking in Edmonton this fall!), and so forth. He's unapologetic about his faith. I'm not telling tales out of school.

And Burns I don't think that it's right for you to condemn his convictions around courtship, dating, and marriage when the central point of this thread is to encourage respect for various lifestyles and choices. If Mr. Kenney is choosing to be chaste until marriage it's really not for you to judge and shouldn't be a significant personal concern unless you are interested in sleeping with him. Outside of that reason you should be able to manage day to day life quite well even though Mr. Kenney is a virgin.

Mr. Kenney is unmarried long past an age that is usual in faithful circles. I think part of that is because he is RC and with the modernization of the church it is more difficult to find female partners that believe as he does. He wants a wife that reflects his understanding of the church teachings. That sets up some barriers. Anyway, it's his life and his choice. He just should respect other people's choices.


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 15 February 2005 11:31 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That's your take Hailey. My take is that he's not celibate by choice, but rather by attitude. You believe your version, I'll believe mine.

Am I being mean? Perhaps. Do I care? Not so much. This is Jason Kenney we're talking about, after all.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 15 February 2005 11:35 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
News alert: I believe Kenney has gone quite public about losing his virginity in the last few years, no? I'm sure that info has been posted here in the past.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 15 February 2005 11:39 AM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
That's your take Hailey. My take is that he's not celibate by choice, but rather by attitude. You believe your version, I'll believe mine.

I believe it's both. I believe that the views that he takes and how that would influence his interactions with a bride or bride to be would narrow both his choice of companions and the women who would admire him as a potential spouse in return.

The belief system that he holds and how it guides him is out of step with the thinking of many so he would have a smaller pool of individuals to choose from.


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Kinetix
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posted 15 February 2005 11:40 AM      Profile for Kinetix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hailey, I'll break it down for you. Kenney's getting flak because he's a proud and outspoken bigot who is backed and supported by his caucus colleagues for an attitute that they should find quite detrimental to their career.

On the other hand Carolyn parrish was booted right out of the Liberal party.... oh, and she's OLD NEWS.

So don't tell us that Coryln Parrish didn't get any trouble. She got *all* the trouble.


From: Montréal, Québec | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 15 February 2005 11:42 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The attitude I'm speaking of is his incorrigible boorism, not his religious beliefs. Of course, there are some women who like incorrigible boors, so his purported celibacy may be a combination of the two factors.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 15 February 2005 11:46 AM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mr. Kenney has many traits that are not admirable. And, yes, Carolyn Parrish got in loads of difficulty. I just don't understand why her position on SSM isn't one of them.

And, yes, Briguy I'll agree with that. I've seen him speak and spent a few moments with him. Even if you agreed with his politics he is a difficult person to be around. He thinks quite a lot of himself.


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 15 February 2005 12:00 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
Kenney did point out nicely that Stephen Harper is lying through his teeth when he says he favours civil unions with "all the rights and benefits of marriage."

quote:
What the vast majority of Canadians are looking for is a "reasonable compromise," said Kenney, adding that his party supports domestic partner unions at the provincial level "which recognizes that there are non-conjugal relationships where people live in a dependent situation that deserves state recognition."

"I don't deny at all that gays and lesbians care for each other and love for each other, and indeed that should be considered in civil union relationships at the provincial level," Kenney said.


In other words, the policy of the Conservative Party is, as it's always been, to deny marriage rights to gays and lesbians. Period. No parallel institution because that's exclusive provincial jurisdiction. No equality. No separate but equal.

Absolute second-class status. As we'll see when Harper tables his amendments.


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gopi
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posted 15 February 2005 12:45 PM      Profile for gopi     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
He wants a wife that reflects his understanding of the church teachings.

As I understand, Tammy Faye is available.


From: transient | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 15 February 2005 01:03 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
Tammy Faye loves queers, so it would never work.
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 15 February 2005 01:10 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Speaking of Tammy Faye, there was a quite affecting article in the NY Times mag a week or so ago about her son, who's become a sort of punk minister, after struggling with lots of demons, as we all can imagine.

He sounds terrific, actually, not exactly an evangelist at all, just a once-damaged guy with a talent for connecting to people. His usual venues are bars. And Tammy Faye comes to help him out. She sounds ok too.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 15 February 2005 01:20 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Jay (Jamie) Bakker wrote a book called Son of a Preacher man. He has had a volume of personal hurts to deal with in his life and believed that the church walked away to abandon him at critical times. He has spoken out in very hostile tones about Jerry Falwell, specifically. His book outlines a lot of challenges he had - sexual issues, substance abuse, emotional issues, etc.

He's an actual pastor who reaches out to goth, to punks, to people actively abusing substances, skins, goth, homosexuals, ravers, homeless, straightedge He takes a very unusual perspective. If I were ever in his town I'd attend his church just out of interest.

http://www.vivalarevolution.org/speakers.htm

http://www.cephasministry.com/joels_jay_bakker.html


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 15 February 2005 01:28 PM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Tammy Faye is an inspiring woman. Back in the 80's, for example, on her then leading Christian TV channel, she educated her audience about AIDS, and encouraged financial and emotional support for those suffering from the disease. She had gay men on her show as guests. All of that changed when Falwell stole the ministry from her and her husband. Check out The Eyes of Tammy Faye; it's an excellent doc.
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thorin_bane
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posted 15 February 2005 01:48 PM      Profile for thorin_bane     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hailey I have been celebate for 7 years, But this isn't because I wanted to be. I don't have time to go out and meet people because I work too many hours in a male only business. Oh sure I have friends who say "If I wasn't married I would go out with you." or "Your so nice why don't you have a GF" it isn't always a CHOICE to be single and out of love. For Kenny I would say it is because he is a complete ass. If my attitude was as bad as his I would never get any dates never mind getting to a second date.

Oh and for the record I am RC and I am dead set against the church in this matter. Do you follow the teachings of christ or only on stuff you wish to follow. "Love thy neighbour as you love thyself" Ring a bell. All the stuff they like to say is in the bible comes mostly out of the old testament. Seems to me they are against it because the church was a kind of refuge for a gay man in the past. If you where a man in the middle of your life and single it was fine if you where a priest. But in the general community it was seen as odd and might be deserving of a hangin' should you be outted. We had many gay priests in our churches here in Windsor. One ex priest even wrote into the paper about how wrong it was for the Bishop henry statements and it goes against church teachings. This from a former priest.
Hailey convictions are fine unless they are rooted in hate! If he says we must pay down debt. Fine I don't agree but that is his conviction and it is about fiscal matters. However trying to root around to find ANY kind of reason to deny people who love each other is wrong and hate filled fear. Every arguement put forward has not only been seen as weak, but in fact fearmongering and exploitive. The procreation arguement, well then infertile couples can't get married. The Gods law arguement. Well you don't hear much out of Bishop Henry on all the remarried Catholics do you! Or for eatting shrimp because it also against gods law. The destruction of the family, didn't they try this on inter-racial couples, Yep and it also didn't hold up. Marriage is a scared sacrement of the church, yes so was selling your 13 year old in exchange for a dowry but we moved on since then didn't we. The church has stolen so much from pagans that it isn't anything like when peter built his church upon the rock. Which wasn't a physical structure that you had to pay 10% of your income to. It should be about two people who love each other making a public declaration. That is what marriage is about. 2 people of the same orientation loving each other. Look I am a little homophobic when I hear really flaming faggots.(Sorry it just creeps me out) But I have a first cousin and 2 second cousins who are gay. They span the spectrum on gayness. one you can hardly tell at all while on the other end, he came out when he was 45 and is FLAMING!! I mean fruitloopgeorge as an email. But my cousin in the middle he got married and his husband is a teacher and a carpenter. Nice guy too. So my unflaming cousin says he and his partner have no intention of getting married it was nice that my middle cousin got married to someone who he has been monogimous with for 16 years.


From: Looking at the despair of Detroit from across the river! | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Burns
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posted 15 February 2005 01:48 PM      Profile for Burns   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hailey:
Burns I don't think that it's right for you to condemn his convictions around courtship, dating, and marriage when the central point of this thread is to encourage respect for various lifestyles and choices. If Mr. Kenney is choosing to be chaste until marriage it's really not for you to judge and shouldn't be a significant personal concern unless you are interested in sleeping with him. Outside of that reason you should be able to manage day to day life quite well even though Mr. Kenney is a virgin.
For the record I never proposed that being a self-hating queer be made illegal - though it could be argued that it does more harm to society than gay marriage. I would never seek to infringe on Jason's right to live a lie. Unlike him I believe that people have rights.

From: ... is everything. Location! Location! Location! | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 15 February 2005 02:13 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
it isn't always a CHOICE to be single and out of love.

Agreed.

quote:
For Kenny I would say it is because he is a complete ass. If my attitude was as bad as his I would never get any dates never mind getting to a second date.

I understand your point.

quote:
Oh and for the record I am RC and I am dead set against the church in this matter.

At a certain point if people find themselves thematically in opposition to their church they need to ask themselves if they are in a position to continue to regard themselves as RC's.

I am not saying you aren't but I think it's a valid question.

I met someone who said - no kidding - "I am Catholic but I don't believe in God"

You know, I'd think that'd be a pre-requisite.

quote:
Do you follow the teachings of christ or only on stuff you wish to follow. "Love thy neighbour as you love thyself"

I am not RC but I am Christian. I TRY to be consistent in my faith but, FOR SURE, I fail.

Are you meaning on SSM or chastity before marriage? That's not clear to me.

And only on stuff I wish to follow? If you are meaning chastity it would be assumption to think that people who remain chaste don't have all of the normal desires and interests. You think when I got married I thought "Damn it, now I have to have sex! What a mistake this is going to be!" ???

I followed that teaching because I believed it was God-inspired. I

completely understand why people make different decisions even if I don't think it's the best thing.

quote:
Hailey convictions are fine unless they are rooted in hate

I agree.

quote:
For the record I never proposed that being a self-hating queer be made illegal - though it could be argued that it does more harm to society than gay marriage. I would never seek to infringe on Jason's right to live a lie. Unlike him I believe that people have rights.

May I ask, Burns, on what basis do you believe that Mr. Kenney is attracted to other gentlemen?


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 15 February 2005 02:24 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by thorin_bane:
It should be about two people who love each other making a public declaration. That is what marriage is about. 2 people of the same orientation loving each other. Look I am a little homophobic when I hear really flaming faggots.(Sorry it just creeps me out).

Ummm... thanks for your support?

I am most decidedly not a "flamer", thorin, nor am I attracted to that kind of guy. But some of my best friends are "flamers".

Also, it was a bunch of cross-dressing drag queens who fought back against homophobic cops in New York City who were "creeped out" by effeminate cross-dressing men, and who regularly raided their gathering places, harrassed and arrested them for no reason, beat and tortured them mercilessly... Those "flamers" started a 40-year civil rights struggle at a little place called "Stonewall"— I am gawddamn proud of them, and I honour their sacrifice and their struggle. A few of them are still around, and our community would not be where it is today if it were not for those "flamers".

And that includes your "cousin in the middle" who took advantage of the rights those New York City drag queens at Stonewall fought to earn for all of us.

Okay?


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 15 February 2005 02:25 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
He may be attracted to gentlemen, but not to "other" gentlemen, as he is not one.
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Burns
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posted 15 February 2005 03:04 PM      Profile for Burns   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hailey:
May I ask, Burns, on what basis do you believe that Mr. Kenney is attracted to other gentlemen?
As I think I've made clear: it's a hunch. I have no factual basis to believe it. I have never, for example, been serviced by Mr. Kenney in a public washroom.

But I'll bet a million dollars that someone has been.


From: ... is everything. Location! Location! Location! | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 15 February 2005 03:09 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Burns, I wasn't trying to imply you had had a sexual relationship with him or anything!

I've just never bought that you can LOOK at someone and know they are gay. I was curious how you drew your conclusion.

A hunch is a fine answer.


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 15 February 2005 03:13 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Gaydar. That's how you know someone is gay.
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
googlymoogly
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posted 15 February 2005 03:25 PM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This explains it PERFECTLY
From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 15 February 2005 03:37 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm not familiar with the term but if I'm understanding it right it is kind of an offensive concept don't you think? That you can see someone on tv and JUST KNOW they are gay.
That seems like a very scary fearfilled right wing idea to me.

From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Burns
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posted 15 February 2005 03:41 PM      Profile for Burns   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As I already said:
quote:
Originally posted by Burns:
A ridiculously prim and proper man in his twenties who refuses to date women? Hmmm.
Other men who, like Kenney, went through life claiming to be "not interested" in dating:

I will say no more.

[ 15 February 2005: Message edited by: Burns ]


From: ... is everything. Location! Location! Location! | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 15 February 2005 03:47 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, Mackenzie King used to go out "reforming" prostitutes. Who are the others? And didn't J. Edgar Hoover like to wear frilly dresses?
From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
thorin_bane
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posted 15 February 2005 04:12 PM      Profile for thorin_bane     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Heph, I just don't like too much of the lisp which is usually in those that come out later in life. I mean I don't mind it, but when you know they talked fine 5 years ago but now have to make sure everyone is pointedly reminded that they are gay everytime they speak. That can get annoying. My flamer cousin blames it on the being a boy of saint vincent(yep he did go to that school) I don't think that makes it OK to be gay. Either you are or your not. A bad experience with a priest shouldn't make you say "Hey woman aren't attractive to me" Likewise I wouldn't imagine a young gay male being molested by his girl babysitter all of the sudden deciding to become hetro.
Hailey I wasn't refering to you. I meant it as far as all the social cons who are so religeous. OK I am RC only because I haven't been excominicated from the church yet. I don't believe in god. At least not in the way we where taught in catholic school. Karma to a lesser degree only it doesn't seem to work on the truly evil bastards like bush. I hope there is a special place in your hell for him. The churchs hypocrisy turned me away. I went in November and got so pissed at the sermon I decided to not go at Christmas, the first time I missed. I have tried to find god but (s)he doesn't want to punish those that represent him/her that defy his/her laws! And after going to a pentacostal church....WOW scary is about all I can say. My ex-GF brought me to her church often. The thing that struck me as strange was the "catchers" the people who stand behind you when your are being "healed". And of course them asking for money as the first thing they said after singing.
I do gods will by doing what is right. I hold doors I help people when the need it. I try to be humane. That is what god wanted. At least that is how I interpret the bible. Hence why I became a socialist. Greed is against god but yet that is the foundation of the society to the south of us. Perhaps my anti-americanism is just a reflex of my religeon.

From: Looking at the despair of Detroit from across the river! | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 15 February 2005 11:33 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Hailey I wasn't refering to you. I meant it as far as all the social cons who are so religeous.

I'm both of those things!

quote:
OK I am RC only because I haven't been excominicated from the church yet. I don't believe in god.

I think you excommunicated yourself.

quote:
Karma to a lesser degree only it doesn't seem to work on the truly evil bastards like bush. I hope there is a special place in your hell for him.

quote:
I went in November and got so pissed at the sermon I decided to not go at Christmas, the first time I missed. I have tried to find god but (s)he doesn't want to punish those that represent him/her that defy his/her laws!

You shouldn't really go if you dont believe. How can you expect something other than frustration?

quote:
And after going to a pentacostal church....WOW scary is about all I can say. My ex-GF brought me to her church often. The thing that struck me as strange was the "catchers" the people who stand behind you when your are being "healed". And of course them asking for money as the first thing they said after singing.

I grew up that way so it's very normal to me. I don't agree about the money comment though.

quote:
I hold doors I help people when the need it. I try to be humane. That is what god wanted. At least that is how I interpret the bible. Hence why I became a socialist.

Me too!


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Vicious
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posted 16 February 2005 01:43 AM      Profile for The Vicious     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yet another idiot mp from Calgary. Is it the oil money that made them all assholes, or something deeper?
From: Calgary, wishing I was back in Ontario | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 16 February 2005 01:47 AM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's something deeper. Perpetual annoyance at bitchy easterners who show up here looking for work.

(oh, and perpetual annoyance at people who don't like fatties)


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Vicious
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posted 16 February 2005 02:02 AM      Profile for The Vicious     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Are you so bitchy at me because your fat and ugly in addition to being conservative? And took a semi humourous rant from weeks ago totally seriously?
Don't be mad at me for your own bad self image or wieght problems.

From: Calgary, wishing I was back in Ontario | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 16 February 2005 02:09 AM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Vicious, you sound like a perfect soul mate for Kenney.
From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 16 February 2005 02:18 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Don't be mad at me for your own bad self image or wieght problems.

Ya, Heywood. Quit blaming all your problems on other people!


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 16 February 2005 10:57 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I've just written a song. It's simple but catchy:

People hate me, because I'm an ass,
People hate me, because I'm an ass,
People hate me, because I'm an ass...
And it's all their fault!

I can't decide if it's a punk tune or a country song. But I do know who should be singing it!


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 16 February 2005 11:07 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Perpetual annoyance at bitchy easterners who show up here looking for work.

Oh, God. Sometimes I just cry for my Alberta. I really do. Oh, how can Albertans have come to sound like this? How? Oh, God.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
kuri
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posted 16 February 2005 11:16 AM      Profile for kuri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Re: the easterners who show up in Alberta looking for work (and presumably fail, otherwise no one would notice them) - Do you think that has anything to do with the false marketing of the so-called "Alberta Advantage"? As an Albertan, I've thought about how tragic it is for people to move thousands of kilometres away from their networks on the premise that jobs fall off the trees in Alberta and it's sad because they get to Calgary or Edmonton just to find out that it's not true. It's hard for unskilled people to get a career anywhere and leaving their networks of family and friends probably makes it harder yet.
From: an employer more progressive than rabble.ca | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 16 February 2005 11:41 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think that that is true, dokidoki, and so sad, as you say. To me, it is so hurtful that the human voices of the place and community I come from are being drowned out by the sheerly brassy these days.

And of course many of the brassiest voices come from the carpetbaggers, especially the ones who have taken over a department of my beloved old U of C, which didn't use to be a metaphor for brutalism.

[ 16 February 2005: Message edited by: skdadl ]


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
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posted 16 February 2005 12:02 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:

Oh, God. Sometimes I just cry for my Alberta. I really do. Oh, how can Albertans have come to sound like this? How? Oh, God.


Yerk.

'dadl, you didn't notice that I was specifically responding to a bitchy easterner who was slagging my beloved hometown?

We welcome 100% of everyone who shows up here looking to make a better life. I'm one too. Those who show up and start complaining annoy the 99.99999999999999% of us who are happy.

Vicious: take this offer as genuine. If you aren't happy, I will buy you a one-way bus ticket back to London, Ont or wherever you came from and I will do it today.


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Don
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posted 16 February 2005 01:42 PM      Profile for Don   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So, was she married or not?

Libby Davies - married or not?

quote:
Sometime in the last 16 hours Libby Davies has changed her website to further efface the memory of her marriage. Bruce Eriksen, formerly "her late husband," is now "her late partner."

From: Ottawa | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Don
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posted 16 February 2005 01:43 PM      Profile for Don   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So, was she married or not?

Libby Davies - married or not?

quote:
Sometime in the last 16 hours Libby Davies has changed her website to further efface the memory of her marriage. Bruce Eriksen, formerly "her late husband," is now "her late partner."

From: Ottawa | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 16 February 2005 01:53 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Don, I don't know whether Libby and Bruce ever went through an actual wedding ceremony.

Lots of people of a certain vintage have lived together without benefit of clergy or licence for a long time and called themselves all kinds of things, including husbands and wives. "Partners" is actually a fairly recent term, or at least it is to me, although I now use it a lot, even when referring to formally married couples, including my husband and me (and yes, we were churched).


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 16 February 2005 01:55 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
PS: Why do you care?

What was offensive about Kenney's comment was that he used another human being's personal life as a political opportunity.

We don't live our lives in order to become raw material, or illustrations, or anecdotes, or "opportunities," for other people -- not without our consent.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Average Joe
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posted 17 February 2005 03:50 AM      Profile for Average Joe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Jason Kenny is a conservative Catholic. It should not be an oxymoron to be a liberal Catholic. He is certainly much different from other Canadian RC politicians such as Jean Chretien, Trudeau, and Joe Clark.


If every RC who disagreed with the RC Church was excommunicated they would lose far more than half of their flock. The current Pope has strayed far from the ideals of Vatican II. According to the RC Church, there is currently no reason to use condoms despite the AIDS virus, no ministry to homosexuals, no way that women can ever become priests, and there is very little in terms of collegial discussion between actual members of the church and the priests at all of the various levels. Men are the leaders, women have to take subserviant roles. I doubt that a majority of Catholics agree to all of this. Many do just leave the RC Church in frustration and they should still be considered a part of the flock. Their opinions do count.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tommy Shanks
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posted 17 February 2005 12:45 PM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I miss the old days when Frank Mag would skewer Kenney for being a virgin, and a complete and utter jackass besides.

Now is he a self-hating queer or simply someone so repulsive, so loathsome, to the opposite sex he simply ain't getting any? I don't know. I hope, if it ever happens for him, he can let the tensions and hatreds that obviously engulf him go. At least he's a good Catholic, though that probably has stopped him from enjoying the occasional waxing the dolphin.

Ah memories. I used to get a kick out of him and Rob Anders, the lovable scamps.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Al_Czervik
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posted 18 February 2005 02:38 AM      Profile for Al_Czervik        Edit/Delete Post
Jason Kenney has got to be one of the greasiest characters around (along with James Moore).

What's the deal with that?

Is it extra lube to allow them to better slide their heads up Stephen Harper's ass?


From: At Liberal headquarters, they don't whistle while they work -- they hum! | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
aka Mycroft
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posted 18 February 2005 09:39 AM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Several years ago Kenney made himself notable by announcing that since he's against extra-marital sex and is unmarried, he is still a virgin.

I think whenever Kenney is interviewed on tv, he should be identified on screen as "Jason Kenney, 35 (or whatever) year old virgin" at least until he says he's no longer one.


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 18 February 2005 09:43 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Apparently (this has been posted on babble before) Kenney has in the last few years announced that he is no longer a virgin, nudge nudge wink wink.

And I'd add at least five years on to that age, Mycroft -- maybe ten?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 18 February 2005 09:59 AM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Vicious: take this offer as genuine. If you aren't happy, I will buy you a one-way bus ticket back to London, Ont or wherever you came from and I will do it today.


Will you extend that offer to me? I'm pretty happy but I'd like 50% the costs of a holiday to ontario.

quote:
According to the RC Church, there is currently no reason to use condoms despite the AIDS virus, no ministry to homosexuals, no way that women can ever become priests

1) Condoms are considered sinful.
2) There is ministry to homosexuals you just don't like the format. The church isn't going out and FINDING homosexual persons - these persons are coming to them for counsel - they should be anticipating they are going to hear difficult things.
3) Women will not be priests in my lifetime.

quote:
Men are the leaders, women have to take subserviant roles

That's not correct.

quote:
Many do just leave the RC Church in frustration and they should still be considered a part of the flock.

No, once you leave you are gone.

quote:
I miss the old days when Frank Mag would skewer Kenney for being a virgin, and a complete and utter jackass besides

Frank Mag?

I don't think that anyone should be "skewered" for being a virgin. He is living his faith. If you would like persons to be tolerant of other sexual choices why not this one? Why is intolerance of this choice allowable?

quote:
Now is he a self-hating queer or simply someone so repulsive, so loathsome, to the opposite sex he simply ain't getting any?

I am not aware that he is a "self-hating queer". I don't have that level of insight into his sexual feelings. There are people more repulsive and loathsome than Mr. Kenney that are having intimate sexual relations. According to Mr. Kenney he believes that marriage is the appropriate forum for expressed sexuality and that experience has eluded him. Why are you attacking him for this?

quote:
I don't know. I hope, if it ever happens for him, he can let the tensions and hatreds that obviously engulf him go.

You think that people become less conservative if they intercourse?

You must know that's ridiculous.

quote:
At least he's a good Catholic, though that probably has stopped him from enjoying the occasional waxing the dolphin.

Why are you interested in whether or not another man is masturbating? That's a strange thing to wonder about in my books.

But, you are right, if he is Catholic he doesn't masturbate.

quote:
I think whenever Kenney is interviewed on tv, he should be identified on screen as "Jason Kenney, 35 (or whatever) year old virgin" at least until he says he's no longer one.

What would be the purpose of doing that? Do we announce "This is Stockwell Day, married, and having sex six times a week". Why are we wanting to announce personal information particularly within the context of humiliating someone. This isn't intended to do anything but humiliate.

And why would someone have to announce the onset of sexual activity.

quote:
Apparently (this has been posted on babble before) Kenney has in the last few years announced that he is no longer a virgin, nudge nudge wink wink.

I'm not disputing you Skdadl but I am wondering if you have a url perchance?

I totally appreciate that Mr. Kenney has political views that are extreme and some of his behavioural choices lead to persons being in sharp disagreement with him. He's disappointing at times. I don't understand mocking someone's religion or the sexual decisions that stem from that. He's waiting until he's married. Why is that any more appropriate to condemn than conservatives mocking homosexuality? I think you have to model respect in order to legitimately criticize discrimination.


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 18 February 2005 10:04 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm not disputing you Skdadl but I am wondering if you have a url perchance?

Perforce no, Hailey, since it was sheer vicious gossip in the first place and I was obviously just repeating it.

It seems to be ubiquitous sheer vicious gossip though.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6438

posted 18 February 2005 10:12 AM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Perforce no, Hailey, since it was sheer vicious gossip in the first place and I was obviously just repeating it.

It seems to be ubiquitous sheer vicious gossip though.


No worries as I've heard it as well. I just have never been able to find the source!

It's a sad day when my life has led me to type "Jason Kenney" "virgin" into google.

God, I'm ashamed!


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 18 February 2005 10:18 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hailey, you are often such a pure laugh.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy Shanks
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3076

posted 18 February 2005 10:45 AM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Frank Mag?

Frank Magazine. It was a guilty pleasure.

quote:
You think that people become less conservative if they intercourse?

No, I'm suggesting that if people who seem to be overly angry and intolerant stop and smell the roses once in a while, pleasurable things (food, drink, sex, travel) may give them a new perspective.

quote:
Why are you interested in whether or not another man is masturbating? That's a strange thing to wonder about in my books.

But, you are right, if he is Catholic he doesn't masturbate.


I'm simply fascinated by the topic obviously, especially when someone claims that they or others (and let's be fair, I'm as interested in women amusing themselves as well) don't induldge.

But I'm willing to bet on the last part of your thesis. I'd bet you any amount. I'd suspect that a vast majority of Catholics have, at one time or another, taken matters into their owns hands. Even Jason Kenney.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6438

posted 18 February 2005 12:01 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
No, I'm suggesting that if people who seem to be overly angry and intolerant stop and smell the roses once in a while, pleasurable things (food, drink, sex, travel) may give them a new perspective.



I was a begrudging supporter of the Liberal Party (I have reservations about them!) before I had sex (with a conservative no less!) and nothing about my political beliefs has changed.

I was a social drinker before and now I've temporarily stopped drinking - my political beliefs haven't changed a a bit.

Travel really didn't influence my emotional stage either.


quote:
I'm simply fascinated by the topic obviously, especially when someone claims that they or others (and let's be fair, I'm as interested in women amusing themselves as well) don't induldge.

I didn't have sex until I was married. I spent quite some time during my adolescence talking at youth groups about the decision to be chaste until marriage. I simply see it as one option on the pendulum and, obviously, one that I support. That doesn't mean that I have marked hostility towards people that do otherwise. There are very few sexual preferences or choices that anger me I mostly see it as a personal decision. One I have a bias about but a personal decision none the less!

I can't see what's interesting about it! And you are not just interested - you are making fun of him.

quote:
But I'm willing to bet on the last part of your thesis. I'd bet you any amount. I'd suspect that a vast majority of Catholics have, at one time or another, taken matters into their owns hands. Even Jason Kenney.


Well I guess we'd have to define Catholic. If you mean people baptized whose church attendance is reflected by Easter, Christmas, and funerals as well as the occasional wedding then yes. If you are meaning Catholics who life reflects their faith, Catholics who attend weekly Mass, and Catholics who partake in the Sacraments then you would be wrong. They wouldn't masturbate. It would be a sin.


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tommy Shanks
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3076

posted 18 February 2005 12:30 PM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Even for these Catholics:
quote:
If you are meaning Catholics who life reflects their faith, Catholics who attend weekly Mass, and Catholics who partake in the Sacraments then you would be wrong

I'll still take that bet. I'll even bet there are more then a few priests and others in the church hierarchy who bash the bishop.

Hmm, I don't imagine the Pope does though, he's rather infirm.

And, golly, for someone who accused me of being obsessed with this, you sure seem to know about what "good" catholics do between themselves and God. And you're not even Catholic?


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 18 February 2005 01:23 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This reminds me of an old hymn we used to sing in Sunday School. I think the title was You're Not a Real Catholic Unless You Don't Whack Off. Something like that.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 18 February 2005 04:22 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy Shanks:
[QB]I'll even bet there are more then a few priests and others in the church hierarchy who bash the bishop. QB]

Never heard that expression before. Yuck.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 18 February 2005 04:34 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, any future accusations of "Catholic-bashing" are going to be followed by a few giggles from me.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
unmaladroit
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7325

posted 18 February 2005 04:36 PM      Profile for unmaladroit        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:

Never heard that expression before. Yuck.


that's only for hard-core devout catholics, and never on a sunday. new-age catholics can't seem to make up their mind whether to don a shroud before praying.


From: suspicionville, bc | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tommy Shanks
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3076

posted 18 February 2005 05:02 PM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I can't see what's interesting about it! And you are not just interested - you are making fun of him.

Haha. Why can I see Grover yelling this and shaking his arms. Whaaoo.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
thorin_bane
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6194

posted 18 February 2005 05:47 PM      Profile for thorin_bane     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Before I lost my commitment to the brick and mortor church I used to "flog the bishop" but I didn't feel guilty. It's that or go out and "DO" something about it. Give me a break, you wonder why priests have so many scandals about young kids. It's because they aren't allowed to masterbate. Too much spunk buildup and your head might explode. If I go for weeks without whacking the weasle I start to think about having sex with just about any woman I see. Instaed I like to take matters into my own hands . But I was still devote Catholic when I was 19 I didn't lose my virginity until a week before I was 21 with a close friend. I think people hould try to wait till they are responsible enough to handle all the emotional crap that goes with sex. It changes everything with that person. I know people 35 years old that shouldn't have sex because they aren't mentally ready. But I don't tell them they shouldn't. Anyway I thought this tread was about dumb comments by Kenny? Not my or anyone elses sexual past.
From: Looking at the despair of Detroit from across the river! | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 18 February 2005 07:18 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by thorin_bane:
If I go for weeks without whacking the weasel I start to think about having sex with just about any woman I see.

"Whacking the weasel". Good, golly, Miss Molly!


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6438

posted 18 February 2005 10:09 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'll still take that bet. I'll even bet there are more then a few priests and others in the church hierarchy who bash the bishop.

That is totally rude.

And how do you intend to prove it?

And, golly, for someone who accused me of being obsessed with this, you sure seem to know about what "good" catholics do between themselves and God. And you're not even Catholic?

quote:
And, golly, for someone who accused me of being obsessed with this, you sure seem to know about what "good" catholics do between themselves and God. And you're not even Catholic?


I am NOT Catholic. I am familiar with their teachings. And, yes, I accused you of being focused on it. You know I have never before pondered whether or not the Pope masturbates. That is very odd to me.

quote:
This reminds me of an old hymn we used to sing in Sunday School. I think the title was You're Not a Real Catholic Unless You Don't Whack Off. Something like that.

What kind of class was this?

quote:
Before I lost my commitment to the brick and mortor church I used to "flog the bishop" but I didn't feel guilty. It's that or go out and "DO" something about it.

I am sure not going to tell someone that they can't masturbate. That's entirely up to you. Don't suggest, however, that there are only two choices. There is absolutely the choice of living a life faithful to the church.

quote:
Give me a break, you wonder why priests have so many scandals about young kids. It's because they aren't allowed to masterbate

WHAT? You think that if the average guy is chaste long enough he'll start to want to abuse kids? God, that is a sad commentary on men. That is absolutely not true. That is freakishly disturbing to even say.

quote:
But I was still devote Catholic

May I ask how old you were when you left the church please?


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Average Joe
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5241

posted 19 February 2005 03:59 AM      Profile for Average Joe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hailey, if masterbation is a sin for Catholics, this does not mean that Catholics are without sin and never masterbate. Just last night on the late night programming there was a Christian brother on the Life Network talking about his struggle with masturbation.

To get back to the subject of this "thread", Jason Kenney is the proverbial wanker, but we have no way of concluding if he is or is not a masterbator. javascript:%20x()

Condoms are not a sin. Pope Paul IV in the late 60s really struggled with the contraction issue and finally decided that all contraception was sinful. Who am I to say he is wrong? Most Catholics disagreed with him. How many Catholics just go with their faith and have the large families now? How do they survive in the neo-conservative world of taking care of number ONE? Sure their parishes can help them and there are food banks, but how can anyone count on society to be helping them so much?

What happens with a married couple when one of them accidentally gets the HIV virus while working as a doctor or nurse? Does the spouse refuse to use a condom because it is a sin?

If you do not teach your children about condoms, they are no longer going to get the information from public information. HIV/AIDS public service information has dwindled down to a trickle. Some of these Catholic kids will get the message that condoms are not to be used and just have sex without them. Of course, abstinance would be best, but kids have to know about prevention of HIV infection with the use of condoms.

[ 19 February 2005: Message edited by: Average Joe ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Soul Rebel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10035

posted 03 August 2005 05:46 PM      Profile for Soul Rebel        Edit/Delete Post
I thought I'd share this pithy observation from my Uncle Sam, who sent me a post card recently from his retirement home in a gated, white, Christian retirement community down in Texas:

"It warms my magnanimous American heart to no end to read how the neo-con movement has such articulate and passionate advocates up there in Canada. The right-wing movement in America needs more Canadians of the vision of Stephen Harper, Jason Kenney and Ralph Klein. They know how the world works. They know which side their bread is buttered on. The know American oil companies and social conservatives dictate the political agenda in America. And I find it so quaint and flattering that these great men would remake Canada in the image of Texas. As for all those mean-spirited Canadians who slander the name of a great man like Jason Kenney by suggesting this decent, early 30s Christian virgin is a homosexual-in-denial, why do you commie, atheistic, humanistic, anti-American bigots assume that a young man who bends over and assumes the thank-you position for the American oil industry is necessarily queer? He is a man's man, I tell you, whose intellectual dominance and moral integrity far exceed his exceedingly short stature."


From: Calgary | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
A longsuffering conservative
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9425

posted 03 August 2005 10:56 PM      Profile for A longsuffering conservative     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That's it, my new mission in life: getting Jason Kenney to revive Social Credit!!!
From: The Sovereignist Dark Side | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Kinetix
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5296

posted 04 August 2005 02:18 AM      Profile for Kinetix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Huh? Who necroposted? And why such an offtopic necropost?
From: Montréal, Québec | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
siren
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7470

posted 04 August 2005 03:18 AM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Soul Rebel "necroposted" (what a word!) with a very amusing e-mail from his Uncle.

Welcome, Soul Rebel.

On edit -- it's neither necro nor an odd topic -- unless of course Kenney has ceased to be an idiot.

[ 04 August 2005: Message edited by: siren ]


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
guelpher
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9994

posted 05 August 2005 12:17 PM      Profile for guelpher     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I just wanted to point out to the fellow babbler who refered to James Moore as a slime bucket that James Moore actually voted for SSM, along with Jim Prentice and Gerald Keddy.

On a more general note, there are still many progressives left in the conservative party and slowly we are getting the upper hand against the social conservative freaks that seem to lead our party at the moment.
Calling all conservatives bigots is hurtful and unjust towards the moderate people in the party.


From: Guelph, ON | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Kevin_Laddle
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8163

posted 05 August 2005 12:22 PM      Profile for Kevin_Laddle   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
That letter mentioned Kenny's "exceedingly short stature". Is Jason Kenny actually a very short man? Or was that meant symbolically? I'd find it funny if this were the case, because he does appear to have a case of little man syndrom.
From: ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST STATE. ASK THE FAMILIES OF THE QANA MASSACRE VICTIMS. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
dramaman
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5586

posted 06 August 2005 12:24 AM      Profile for dramaman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
guelpher!!

"On a more general note, there are still many progressives left in the conservative party and slowly we are getting the upper hand against the social conservative freaks that seem to lead our party at the moment."

Oh, really. I hope that you are right. And based on what evidence do you make that kind of post?

"Calling all conservatives bigots is hurtful and unjust towards the moderate people in the party."

'Tis true.

Unfortunately for the CPC, having people like Kenney, Thompson, Stockwell Day (he, of "The Earth is only 6,000 years old fame), Reynolds, and Harper can only encourage people to ignore the CPC as extremists.

Please show us where the 'moderates' in the CPC exist, and explain what they're doing to gain "the upper hand".

I look forward to your response.


From: SW Ontario | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7050

posted 06 August 2005 04:22 AM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hailey:
And how do you intend to prove it?

Infrared cameras and a case of Jolt cola.


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
A longsuffering conservative
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9425

posted 06 August 2005 04:24 AM      Profile for A longsuffering conservative     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Dramaman,

To reply to your request to Guelpher, we cannot possibly tell you what we are up to in order to restore the mainstream, moderate face of the party. Or to put it another way -- stamp the PC Party image onto the new CPC party.

Let me assure you that things are moving along very nicely, thank you. The pot is past the boiling stage internally and surprises are in the offing!

I don't intend to telegraph our game plan -- let me just say that Harper won't be smiling for too much longer...


From: The Sovereignist Dark Side | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Aric H
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5815

posted 06 August 2005 04:26 AM      Profile for Aric H     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

[ 01 December 2005: Message edited by: Aric H ]


From: Canada | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718

posted 06 August 2005 06:55 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by guelpher:
I just wanted to point out to the fellow babbler who refered to James Moore as a slime bucket that James Moore actually voted for SSM, along with Jim Prentice and Gerald Keddy.

I can't find any reference to either "Moore" or "slime" in this thread prior to your post.

While I'm not making any judgement on Moore, needless to say, voting for equal marriage does not actually preclude being a slime bucket. His involvement with the psychotically toxic bigot Adam Yoshida is not exactly a point in his favour.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged

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