http://tinyurl.com/65xnb

quote:

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The fact is that homosexuals aren't barred from marrying under Canadian law," Kenney said at the meeting of the Punjabi Press Club last month in Brampton, Ontario.
"Marriage is open to everybody, as long as they're a man and a woman," said Kenney.

"It doesn't say you can't marry if you're a homosexual. The fact is that homosexuals have been married and do marry."

Former NDP MP Svend Robinson was once married to a woman, noted Kenney. He also said that NDP MP Libby Davies was once married to a man.

Davies, the Vancouver member of Parliament who is openly lesbian, corrected the record Sunday to say she's never been married, but did live with her male partner for 24 years until he died of cancer in 1997.

"I thought I'd heard it all," said Davies. "I wouldn't expect too much out of Jason Kenney on this (subject), but this is absolutely absurd.

"If there was an award for making an idiotic statement, this guy would get it."

---

I think that the MP is being pretty disingenuine. That argument has been made several times - it's silly I agree but it's not new.

And Jason Kenney has been consistent about his beliefs on various issues from day one. He is nothing if not CLEAR.

Carolyn Parrish who is voting AGAINST her conscience has been given respect here for being consistent between her spoken intentions at election time and her current action plan. I'm baffled why that is the way she is responded to but Mr. Kenney is not treated comparably?

quote:

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Originally posted by Hailey:
I guess I'll promote a minority view!

I think that the MP is being pretty disingenuine. That argument has been made several times - it's silly I agree but it's not new.

---

You're right, Hailey, I agree. It is NOT a new idea. But it was a stupid idea when it was first circulated, and it still is.

Presumably, Kenny is fine then with gay men and lesbians lying to their prospective spouses, and living their lives in misery. And apparently (according to these low-lifes) gays and lesbians are a threat to kids when there are two of them raising kids in an honest and open relationship... but it's okay when there's only one, and they're living a lie in the closet. What an absolute asshole...

As for Kenney, it helps explain things like:

quote:

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OTTAWA -- Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, bracing for the launch this week of a parliamentary debate on gay marriage, has made the controversial and unprecedented move of requiring his MPs to vet their speeches with his office.

The decision, announced at last week's caucus meeting, got a mixed response from MPs in a party that is rooted in Western Canada's tradition of populism and grassroots politics.

Some say the move is prudent, given how some MPs from the former Canadian Alliance and Conservative parties have caused enormous controversy and damaged the party's interests during past debates on minority-rights issues.

---

http://tinyurl.com/3n46p

He's speaking as a keynote speaker April 29th and April 30th in Edmonton (if his speech passes Mr. Harper's approval!). I've heard him speak in the past - like him or dislike him - he's authentic and true to his word, he's consistent, he's clear, he doesn't mince words, he doesn't change on a dime. You know what you get when you vote for him.

It is a good thing that the question would be about a closet rather than a bedroom since as PET said:

"the state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation."

We have had gay and lesbian members of the House of Commons and every legislature who have not come out of the closet or been forced out regardless of their political affiliation.

My brother is my focus group of one regarding coming out of the closet. His reply has always been that you can not force someone out. Rather they have to want to come out.

Yes we have had CPC-Reform-PC, Liberal, Bloc, NDP, Socred gay members who have not been forced out. To want to out one today is an insult to those who still believe in a persons freedom of choice.

quote:

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I know that he's talked about a desire to get married but it's not something that's happened in his life.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hailey:
Mr. Kenney is actually a very devout RC member.

---

Kenney is a clown. He has always been a clown. And there's an obvious explanation for his confirmed bachelorhood: anyone so in love with his own reflection has little need of a wife.

quote:

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Originally posted by Contrarian:
I would quibble with the title of this thread. She didn't call him an idiot, she said his statement was idiotic. Subtle distinction there.

---

Happy Valentines day!

Oh, and Mr Kenny?

I saw him once on television where he was being a 'pundit' and finally the host in a rare moment of patriotism, said in response to his rah, rah ain't America the cat's pjs and let's give em our assets, said to him, what about some loyalty and patriotism to Canada? He couldn't respond and looked shocked.

[ 14 February 2005: Message edited by: Blueiris46 ]

quote:

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Originally posted by johnpauljones:
...We have had gay and lesbian members of the House of Commons and every legislature who have not come out of the closet or been forced out regardless of their political affiliation.

My brother is my focus group of one regarding coming out of the closet. His reply has always been that you can not force someone out. Rather they have to want to come out.

Yes we have had CPC-Reform-PC, Liberal, Bloc, NDP, Socred gay members who have not been forced out. To want to out one today is an insult to those who still believe in a persons freedom of choice.

I for one still hold this to be true.

---

In general I agree with you. It is a personal decision. HowEVER... if any LGBT person, particularly one in a position of authority, is behaving like a homophobic ass and using their influence or their authority to harm my community while remaining safely in the closet themselves...?

quote:

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Originally posted by Hailey:
Mr. Kenney is actually a very devout RC member. I know that he's talked about a desire to get married but it's not something that's happened in his life.

---

Well, i don't know how "devout" is Mr. Kenney. I heard him speak at a public forum in the run up to the Iraq war. (A war which, we all remember, the conservatives wanted in on rather badly.)

When asked about his religion and the Pope's view of the war, Kenney said that the Catholic Church hosted a web site in which it set out the criteria for a "Just War". Kenney said that the Iraq war met all those criteria.

Really? Too bad nobody told the Pope who was very much against the Iraq invasion.

It takes some kind of special to stand up in a public forum with your bare face hanging out and flat out lie about the Pope's stance on an issue. I'm not Catholic, but i rather feel that there might be some sort of retribution from mother church for that kind of nonsense.

quote:

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Originally posted by Coyote:
I've heard Kenney mention on CBC, CTV, etc. He's made his religion a matter of public record, not us.

---

I'm sure the above-posted comments reflect his genuine belief: that gays and lesbians should enter into loveless sham marriages with unsuspecting heteros who will then suffer decades of loneliness and depression while their husband goes to get his wang sucked by strangers in parking lots.

The upside to all this is that, if I'm right, there is a possibility that Kenney will finally shed the guilt, come out and (like many who stayed too long in the closet) be ridiculously flaming when he does.

Could be entertaining.

[ 14 February 2005: Message edited by: Burns ]

quote:

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Originally posted by skdadl:
Kenney is a clown. He has always been a clown. And there's an obvious explanation for his confirmed bachelorhood: anyone so in love with his own reflection has little need of a wife.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by TeamNeedles:
Regular people think before they speak. Why don't politicians?

---

I was about to respond, but then I thought better before I clicked "Add Reply".

Leuca...? Springer...? Quaggy....?

quote:

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Originally posted by Hephaestion:
Still waiting for someone to defend Kenney...

---

quote:

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Originally posted by RealityBites:
Why would you want any of them to speak when they're being blissfully silent? Because they make Kenney look smart?

---

Jason Kenney has *always* held this position, got elected on this position, is unapologetic about his position, etc.

And Boom Boom Mr. Kenney speaks openly about his faith, how it has led him to wait to have sexual relations until marriage, to engage in prayer with other conservative and liberal members, to host prolife gatherings (he'll be speaking in Edmonton this fall!), and so forth. He's unapologetic about his faith. I'm not telling tales out of school.

And Burns I don't think that it's right for you to condemn his convictions around courtship, dating, and marriage when the central point of this thread is to encourage respect for various lifestyles and choices. If Mr. Kenney is choosing to be chaste until marriage it's really not for you to judge and shouldn't be a significant personal concern unless you are interested in sleeping with him. Outside of that reason you should be able to manage day to day life quite well even though Mr. Kenney is a virgin.

quote:

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That's your take Hailey. My take is that he's not celibate by choice, but rather by attitude. You believe your version, I'll believe mine.

---

I believe it's both. I believe that the views that he takes and how that would influence his interactions with a bride or bride to be would narrow both his choice of companions and the women who would admire him as a potential spouse in return.

On the other hand Carolyn parrish was booted right out of the Liberal party.... oh, and she's OLD NEWS.

quote:

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What the vast majority of Canadians are looking for is a "reasonable compromise," said Kenney, adding that his party supports domestic partner unions at the provincial level "which recognizes that there are non-conjugal relationships where people live in a dependent situation that deserves state recognition."

"I don't deny at all that gays and lesbians care for each other and love for each other, and indeed that should be considered in civil union relationships at the provincial level," Kenney said.

---

In other words, the policy of the Conservative Party is, as it's always been, to deny marriage rights to gays and lesbians. Period. No parallel institution because that's exclusive provincial jurisdiction. No equality. No separate but equal.

quote:

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He wants a wife that reflects his understanding of the church teachings.

---

He's an actual pastor who reaches out to goth, to punks, to people actively abusing substances, skins, goth, homosexuals, ravers, homeless, straightedge He takes a very unusual perspective. If I were ever in his town I'd attend his church just out of interest.

http://www.vivalarevolution.org/speakers.htm

quote:

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Originally posted by Hailey:
Burns I don't think that it's right for you to condemn his convictions around courtship, dating, and marriage when the central point of this thread is to encourage respect for various lifestyles and choices. If Mr. Kenney is choosing to be chaste until marriage it's really not for you to judge and shouldn't be a significant personal concern unless you are interested in sleeping with him. Outside of that reason you should be able to manage day to day life quite well even though Mr. Kenney is a virgin.

---

quote:

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it isn't always a CHOICE to be single and out of love.

---

Agreed.

quote:

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For Kenny I would say it is because he is a complete ass. If my attitude was as bad as his I would never get any dates never mind getting to a second date.

---

I understand your point.

quote:

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Oh and for the record I am RC and I am dead set against the church in this matter.

---

At a certain point if people find themselves thematically in opposition to their church they need to ask themselves if they are in a position to continue to regard themselves as RC's.

I am not saying you aren't but I think it's a valid question.

I met someone who said - no kidding - "I am Catholic but I don't believe in God"

You know, I'd think that'd be a pre-requisite.

quote:

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Do you follow the teachings of christ or only on stuff you wish to follow. "Love thy neighbour as you love thyself"

---

I am not RC but I am Christian. I TRY to be consistent in my faith but, FOR SURE, I fail.

Are you meaning on SSM or chastity before marriage? That's not clear to me.

And only on stuff I wish to follow? If you are meaning chastity it would be assumption to think that people who remain chaste don't have all of the normal desires and interests. You think when I got married I thought "Damn it, now I have to have sex! What a mistake this is going to be!" ???

I followed that teaching because I believed it was God-inspired. I

completely understand why people make different decisions even if I don't think it's the best thing.

quote:

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Hailey convictions are fine unless they are rooted in hate

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I agree.

quote:

---

For the record I never proposed that being a self-hating queer be made illegal - though it could be argued that it does more harm to society than gay marriage. I would never seek to infringe on Jason's right to live a lie. Unlike him I believe that people have rights.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by thorin_bane:
It should be about two people who love each other making a public declaration. That is what marriage is about. 2 people of the same orientation loving each other. Look I am a little homophobic when I hear really flaming faggots.(Sorry it just creeps me out).

---

Ummm... thanks for your support?

I am most decidedly not a "flamer", thorin, nor am I attracted to that kind of guy. But some of my best friends are "flamers".

Also, it was a bunch of cross-dressing drag queens who fought back against homophobic cops in New York City who were "creeped out" by effeminate cross-dressing men, and who regularly raided their gathering places, harrassed and arrested them for no reason, beat and tortured them mercilessly... Those "flamers" started a 40-year civil rights struggle at a little place called "Stonewall"— I am gawddamn proud of them, and I honour their sacrifice and their struggle. A few of them are still around, and our community would not be where it is today if it were not for those "flamers".

And that includes your "cousin in the middle" who took advantage of the rights those New York City drag queens at Stonewall fought to earn for all of us.

quote:

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Originally posted by Hailey:
May I ask, Burns, on what basis do you believe that Mr. Kenney is attracted to other gentlemen?

---

I've just never bought that you can LOOK at someone and know they are gay. I was curious how you drew your conclusion.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Burns:
A ridiculously prim and proper man in his twenties who refuses to date women? Hmmm.

---

I will say no more.

[ 15 February 2005: Message edited by: Burns ]

quote:

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Hailey I wasn't refering to you. I meant it as far as all the social cons who are so religeous.

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I'm both of those things!

quote:

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OK I am RC only because I haven't been excominicated from the church yet. I don't believe in god.

---

I think you excommunicated yourself.

quote:

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Karma to a lesser degree only it doesn't seem to work on the truly evil bastards like bush. I hope there is a special place in your hell for him.

---

quote:

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I went in November and got so pissed at the sermon I decided to not go at Christmas, the first time I missed. I have tried to find god but (s)he doesn't want to punish those that represent him/her that defy his/her laws!

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You shouldn't really go if you dont believe. How can you expect something other than frustration?

quote:

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And after going to a pentacostal church....WOW scary is about all I can say. My ex-GF brought me to her church often. The thing that struck me as strange was the "catchers" the people who stand behind you when your are being "healed". And of course them asking for money as the first thing they said after singing.

---

I grew up that way so it's very normal to me. I don't agree about the money comment though.

quote:

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I hold doors I help people when the need it. I try to be humane. That is what god wanted. At least that is how I interpret the bible. Hence why I became a socialist.

---

quote:

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Don't be mad at me for your own bad self image or wieght problems.

---

People hate me, because I'm an ass,
People hate me, because I'm an ass,
People hate me, because I'm an ass...
And it's all their fault!

quote:

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Perpetual annoyance at bitchy easterners who show up here looking for work.

---

And of course many of the brassiest voices come from the carpetbaggers, especially the ones who have taken over a department of my beloved old U of C, which didn't use to be a metaphor for brutalism.

[ 16 February 2005: Message edited by: skdadl ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by skdadl:

Oh, God. Sometimes I just cry for my Alberta. I really do. Oh, how can Albertans have come to sound like this? How? Oh, God.

---

Yerk.

'dadl, you didn't notice that I was specifically responding to a bitchy easterner who was slagging my beloved hometown?

We welcome 100% of everyone who shows up here looking to make a better life. I'm one too. Those who show up and start complaining annoy the 99.99999999999999% of us who are happy.

Libby Davies - married or not?

quote:

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Sometime in the last 16 hours Libby Davies has changed her website to further efface the memory of her marriage. Bruce Eriksen, formerly "her late husband," is now "her late partner."

---

Libby Davies - married or not?

quote:

---

Sometime in the last 16 hours Libby Davies has changed her website to further efface the memory of her marriage. Bruce Eriksen, formerly "her late husband," is now "her late partner."

---

What was offensive about Kenney's comment was that he used another human being's personal life as a political opportunity.

Now is he a self-hating queer or simply someone so repulsive, so loathsome, to the opposite sex he simply ain't getting any? I don't know. I hope, if it ever happens for him, he can let the tensions and hatreds that obviously engulf him go. At least he's a good Catholic, though that probably has stopped him from enjoying the occasional waxing the dolphin.

What's the deal with that?

quote:

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Vicious: take this offer as genuine. If you aren't happy, I will buy you a one-way bus ticket back to London, Ont or wherever you came from and I will do it today.

---

Will you extend that offer to me? I'm pretty happy but I'd like 50% the costs of a holiday to ontario.

quote:

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According to the RC Church, there is currently no reason to use condoms despite the AIDS virus, no ministry to homosexuals, no way that women can ever become priests

---

1) Condoms are considered sinful.
2) There is ministry to homosexuals you just don't like the format. The church isn't going out and FINDING homosexual persons - these persons are coming to them for counsel - they should be anticipating they are going to hear difficult things.
3) Women will not be priests in my lifetime.

quote:

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Men are the leaders, women have to take subserviant roles

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That's not correct.

quote:

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Many do just leave the RC Church in frustration and they should still be considered a part of the flock.

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No, once you leave you are gone.

quote:

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I miss the old days when Frank Mag would skewer Kenney for being a virgin, and a complete and utter jackass besides

---

Frank Mag?

I don't think that anyone should be "skewered" for being a virgin. He is living his faith. If you would like persons to be tolerant of other sexual choices why not this one? Why is intolerance of this choice allowable?

quote:

---

Now is he a self-hating queer or simply someone so repulsive, so loathsome, to the opposite sex he simply ain't getting any?

---

I am not aware that he is a "self-hating queer". I don't have that level of insight into his sexual feelings. There are people more repulsive and loathsome than Mr. Kenney that are having intimate sexual relations. According to Mr. Kenney he believes that marriage is the appropriate forum for expressed sexuality and that experience has eluded him. Why are you attacking him for this?

quote:

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I don't know. I hope, if it ever happens for him, he can let the tensions and hatreds that obviously engulf him go.

---

You think that people become less conservative if they intercourse?

You must know that's ridiculous.

quote:

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At least he's a good Catholic, though that probably has stopped him from enjoying the occasional waxing the dolphin.

---

Why are you interested in whether or not another man is masturbating? That's a strange thing to wonder about in my books.

But, you are right, if he is Catholic he doesn't masturbate.

quote:

---

I think whenever Kenney is interviewed on tv, he should be identified on screen as "Jason Kenney, 35 (or whatever) year old virgin" at least until he says he's no longer one.

---

What would be the purpose of doing that? Do we announce "This is Stockwell Day, married, and having sex six times a week". Why are we wanting to announce personal information particularly within the context of humiliating someone. This isn't intended to do anything but humiliate.

And why would someone have to announce the onset of sexual activity.

quote:

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Apparently (this has been posted on babble before) Kenney has in the last few years announced that he is no longer a virgin, nudge nudge wink wink.

---

I'm not disputing you Skdadl but I am wondering if you have a url perchance?

quote:

---

I'm not disputing you Skdadl but I am wondering if you have a url perchance?

---

Perforce no, Hailey, since it was sheer vicious gossip in the first place and I was obviously just repeating it.

quote:

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Perforce no, Hailey, since it was sheer vicious gossip in the first place and I was obviously just repeating it.

It seems to be ubiquitous sheer vicious gossip though.

---

No worries as I've heard it as well. I just have never been able to find the source!

It's a sad day when my life has led me to type "Jason Kenney" "virgin" into google.

quote:

---

Frank Mag?

---

Frank Magazine. It was a guilty pleasure.

quote:

---

You think that people become less conservative if they intercourse?

---

No, I'm suggesting that if people who seem to be overly angry and intolerant stop and smell the roses once in a while, pleasurable things (food, drink, sex, travel) may give them a new perspective.

quote:

---

Why are you interested in whether or not another man is masturbating? That's a strange thing to wonder about in my books.

But, you are right, if he is Catholic he doesn't masturbate.

---

I'm simply fascinated by the topic obviously, especially when someone claims that they or others (and let's be fair, I'm as interested in women amusing themselves as well) don't induldge.

quote:

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No, I'm suggesting that if people who seem to be overly angry and intolerant stop and smell the roses once in a while, pleasurable things (food, drink, sex, travel) may give them a new perspective.

---

I was a begrudging supporter of the Liberal Party (I have reservations about them!) before I had sex (with a conservative no less!) and nothing about my political beliefs has changed.

I was a social drinker before and now I've temporarily stopped drinking - my political beliefs haven't changed a a bit.

Travel really didn't influence my emotional stage either.

quote:

---

I'm simply fascinated by the topic obviously, especially when someone claims that they or others (and let's be fair, I'm as interested in women amusing themselves as well) don't induldge.

---

I didn't have sex until I was married. I spent quite some time during my adolescence talking at youth groups about the decision to be chaste until marriage. I simply see it as one option on the pendulum and, obviously, one that I support. That doesn't mean that I have marked hostility towards people that do otherwise. There are very few sexual preferences or choices that anger me I mostly see it as a personal decision. One I have a bias about but a personal decision none the less!

I can't see what's interesting about it! And you are not just interested - you are making fun of him.

quote:

---

But I'm willing to bet on the last part of your thesis. I'd bet you any amount. I'd suspect that a vast majority of Catholics have, at one time or another, taken matters into their owns hands. Even Jason Kenney.

---

quote:

---

If you are meaning Catholics who life reflects their faith, Catholics who attend weekly Mass, and Catholics who partake in the Sacraments then you would be wrong

---

Hmm, I don't imagine the Pope does though, he's rather infirm.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tommy Shanks:
[QB]I'll even bet there are more then a few priests and others in the church hierarchy who bash the bishop. QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boom Boom:

Never heard that expression before. Yuck.

---

quote:

---

I can't see what's interesting about it! And you are not just interested - you are making fun of him.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by thorin_bane:
If I go for weeks without whacking the weasel I start to think about having sex with just about any woman I see.

---

quote:

---

I'll still take that bet. I'll even bet there are more then a few priests and others in the church hierarchy who bash the bishop.

---

That is totally rude.

And how do you intend to prove it?

And, golly, for someone who accused me of being obsessed with this, you sure seem to know about what "good" catholics do between themselves and God. And you're not even Catholic?

quote:

---

And, golly, for someone who accused me of being obsessed with this, you sure seem to know about what "good" catholics do between themselves and God. And you're not even Catholic?

---

I am NOT Catholic. I am familiar with their teachings. And, yes, I accused you of being focused on it. You know I have never before pondered whether or not the Pope masturbates. That is very odd to me.

quote:

---

This reminds me of an old hymn we used to sing in Sunday School. I think the title was You're Not a Real Catholic Unless You Don't Whack Off. Something like that.

---

What kind of class was this?

quote:

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Before I lost my commitment to the brick and mortor church I used to "flog the bishop" but I didn't feel guilty. It's that or go out and "DO" something about it.

---

I am sure not going to tell someone that they can't masturbate. That's entirely up to you. Don't suggest, however, that there are only two choices. There is absolutely the choice of living a life faithful to the church.

quote:

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Give me a break, you wonder why priests have so many scandals about young kids. It's because they aren't allowed to masterbate

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WHAT? You think that if the average guy is chaste long enough he'll start to want to abuse kids? God, that is a sad commentary on men. That is absolutely not true. That is freakishly disturbing to even say.

quote:

---

But I was still devote Catholic

---

To get back to the subject of this "thread", Jason Kenney is the proverbial wanker, but we have no way of concluding if he is or is not a masterbator. javascript:%20x()

Condoms are not a sin. Pope Paul IV in the late 60s really struggled with the contraction issue and finally decided that all contraception was sinful. Who am I to say he is wrong? Most Catholics disagreed with him. How many Catholics just go with their faith and have the large families now? How do they survive in the neo-conservative world of taking care of number ONE? Sure their parishes can help them and there are food banks, but how can anyone count on society to be helping them so much?

What happens with a married couple when one of them accidentally gets the HIV virus while working as a doctor or nurse? Does the spouse refuse to use a condom because it is a sin?

If you do not teach your children about condoms, they are no longer going to get the information from public information. HIV/AIDS public service information has dwindled down to a trickle. Some of these Catholic kids will get the message that condoms are not to be used and just have sex without them. Of course, abstinance would be best, but kids have to know about prevention of HIV infection with the use of condoms.

[ 19 February 2005: Message edited by: Average Joe ]

Welcome, Soul Rebel.

On edit -- it's neither necro nor an odd topic -- unless of course Kenney has ceased to be an idiot.

[ 04 August 2005: Message edited by: siren ]

"On a more general note, there are still many progressives left in the conservative party and slowly we are getting the upper hand against the social conservative freaks that seem to lead our party at the moment."

Oh, really. I hope that you are right. And based on what evidence do you make that kind of post?

"Calling all conservatives bigots is hurtful and unjust towards the moderate people in the party."

'Tis true.

Unfortunately for the CPC, having people like Kenney, Thompson, Stockwell Day (he, of "The Earth is only 6,000 years old fame), Reynolds, and Harper can only encourage people to ignore the CPC as extremists.

Please show us where the 'moderates' in the CPC exist, and explain what they're doing to gain "the upper hand".

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hailey:
And how do you intend to prove it?

---

To reply to your request to Guelpher, we cannot possibly tell you what we are up to in order to restore the mainstream, moderate face of the party. Or to put it another way -- stamp the PC Party image onto the new CPC party.

Let me assure you that things are moving along very nicely, thank you. The pot is past the boiling stage internally and surprises are in the offing!

[ 01 December 2005: Message edited by: Aric H ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by guelpher:
I just wanted to point out to the fellow babbler who refered to James Moore as a slime bucket that James Moore actually voted for SSM, along with Jim Prentice and Gerald Keddy.

---

I can't find any reference to either "Moore" or "slime" in this thread prior to your post.