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Author Topic: Shock and Awe Tactics!
Brutus
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posted 16 June 2004 11:47 PM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040528/COSIMP28/TPTechInvestor/


Blown way out of reality for the purpose of Alliance CON servative SHOCK AND AWE treatment of the Canadian voter because they know they'd never get elected on their policies!

Who are the real liars in our Parliment?


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 16 June 2004 11:52 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't know Brutus, but your link is causing sidescroll. Please edit it using either

makeashorterlink

or

tinyurl


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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posted 17 June 2004 12:00 AM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Brutus:
Blown way out of reality for the purpose of Alliance CON servative SHOCK AND AWE treatment of the Canadian voter because they know they'd never get elected on their policies!

Who are the real liars in our Parliment?


Thanks for that, Brutus. It illustrates the problem. People who contemplate voting Con are buying into a fraud. And, frankly, I'm a bit stumped as to how to expose these guys.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Brutus
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posted 17 June 2004 12:03 AM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
RE:: And, frankly, I'm a bit stumped as to how to expose these guys.

Don't feel bad neither does Paul Martin!


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Northlander
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posted 17 June 2004 10:14 AM      Profile for Northlander        Edit/Delete Post
Brutus, the Liberal government has been expanding the size of the federal government by as much as 36% in the last 4 or 5 years. The cost of increasing federal control is killing Canada. Now that the Liberal's are failing horribly in this election we are being promised federal Liberal controlled local daycare? How much extra is it going to cost having daycare controlled by the federal government, implemented by the Provinces to work at the local level. There is much room for savings if we control the Liberal spending machine.
They should not have been buying banners at race tracks while people were dying on waiting lists.

From: GTA | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 17 June 2004 10:29 AM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
They should not have been buying banners at race tracks while people were dying on waiting lists.

Excellent line. Wish I had thought of it.


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 17 June 2004 04:44 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Northlander, everything you say is absolutely true and I agree with all of it. None of this, however, will be solved by cutting taxes, which is all the CP really care about in the end. Like Campbell before them, they will pay off their real constituency no matter what it does to the people they were elected to serve.

I don't doubt that the CP would find a few places to save money if they formed government (which is not gonna happen. They had one chance in this election to make it work and they haven't brought enough people along, so too bad, so sad), but so would the NDP. In fact, a bunch of yahoos pulled off of the street would be able to chip at the system of graft and excessive control that the Liberals have built up and save a few bucks. That's not the issue. The issue is that the tax cuts that the CP are planning will leave the government in far worse shape than they found it and more than make up for any savings they might squeeze out in the process.

Where will the money for these tax cuts come from? From the services that you take for granted every day, not from graft and corruption. Even if there was that much to be saved (which there isn't), do you really think a man who is being mentored by BRIAN MULRONEY, of all friggin' people, would be the one to stop it? There is a reason why the book on the Mulroney years was called "On The Take".

The BC Liberals promised to shorten waiting lists too. They said tax cuts would pay for themselves, and they would weed out all the waste and corruption in the NDP government. We are hearing this EXACT SAME SONG from Harper, and guess what? Waiting lists in BC have DOUBLED, and waste and corruption are rampant. They throw money at their corporate donors like it's confetti.

Don't be fooled, Northlander. The CP are exploiting legitimate concerns to get their own hands in the trough. You can't cut taxes and deliver better services, and nobody ever has. If you really want waste and corruption to be dealt with, if you really want waiting lists reduced, and if you really want to punish the Liberals, then you should vote NDP. Nobody denies that there's a problem, but Harper is not the solution.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Brutus
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posted 20 June 2004 09:15 AM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
RE:: Nobody denies that there's a problem, but Harper is not the solution.

You just ruined northlanders day! Here he was thinking Harper was the answer to shorter healthcare lines!

Harper is likely the answer to shorter life expectancy among Canadians!


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brutus
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posted 27 June 2004 12:45 PM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
Here is an example how the CON servative shock and awe treatment works.

First they refer to the Firearms Act as the gun registry.

Then they lie and tell Canadians the gun registry has cost 2 billion dollars.

What the CON servatives fail to admit is this cost is ongoing and is the total added "ON" cost that has been added up since Dec 5th 1995 when the Firearms Act came into law!

They do not tell you that the gun registry is just a part of the gun control law and the truth that the licensing of gun owners has in fact been more costly than the gun registration part of this law.

They fail to tell you what the yearly cost of the Firearms Act is! Instead they give you the total added cost since Dec.5th 1995!

They fail to tell you the yearly cost of the Firearms Act is coming down and now has in fact been capped at 25 million a year!

This added cost since day one has a much better shock treatment in an effort to promote their agenda.

It is in fact a form of brainwashing.

Why do the CON servatives steer clear of the fact that the Firearms Act is being administered by the private sector? Because CON servatives are all for privatization? The farming out of the administration of the Firearms Act has also proven to be more costly!

Yes the shock and awe of the CON servatives can be boiled down to good old brainwashing of the masses!

Hopefully the majority of Canadians will be smart enough to see through this B.S.!

[ 27 June 2004: Message edited by: Brutus ]


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Northlander
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posted 27 June 2004 06:55 PM      Profile for Northlander        Edit/Delete Post
What's funny about the Liberals Brutus is that the registry was originally estimated at $2million for everything. Now they have capped spending at $25million per year. The Liberal government lied about the cost of this system and have yet to show any results.

The gun control movement is just smoke and mirrors and harassment of farmers and hunters. Ask yourself, does Toronto feel safer today than prior to 1995? Doubt it! It is not hunters and farmers shooting people in Toronto, it is gang violence and they niether licence themselves not register their illegal guns.

Shock and Awe better describes the Liberal approach. Announce big gun control measures and spend billions to make a list of people who will likely never commit a crime and don't put a cent into new police measures to target gangs.

A waste of a billion dollars and counting, no matter how you slice it!


From: GTA | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Northlander
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posted 27 June 2004 07:08 PM      Profile for Northlander        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Brutus:
RE:: Nobody denies that there's a problem, but Harper is not the solution.

You just ruined northlanders day! Here he was thinking Harper was the answer to shorter healthcare lines!


Might I remind you Brutus that the current health care crisis was created by the Liberal government by cutting transfer payments to the provinces. I'll take my chances with Harper. The Liberals would rather throw billions in the toilet to look tough on crime, than save peoples lives.


From: GTA | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brutus
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posted 28 June 2004 03:55 PM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
RE::a billion dollars and counting, no matter how you slice it!

Thanks for the help in making my point. Everytime an Alliance CON servative member opens his mouth in reference to the gun registry he or she quotes the 2 billion dollar figure. Even the T.V. ads they had quoted the 2 billion figure YOU on the otherhand realize it is closer to 1 billion so it seems you have not bought into the shock and awe B.S. either!

Precisely the point I was trying to make. Don't for get that figure is the total so divide it by 9 years to get the yearly cost!

[ 28 June 2004: Message edited by: Brutus ]


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brutus
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posted 03 July 2004 07:35 AM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
Get ready for some more right wing shock and awe tactics!

Seems on one of the C.S.L. ships they found some drugs that were being smuggled.

On another forum the right wing types are already trying to pin the blame on Paul Martin!

[ 03 July 2004: Message edited by: Brutus ]


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Northlander
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posted 03 July 2004 09:13 AM      Profile for Northlander        Edit/Delete Post
Come on Brutus, you know that Martin and his famlily are just drug dealin scum!

Lets not forget that the gun registry was sold to the house of commons on false statistics quoted by the justice department. Even after the RCMP identified the incorrect statistics, that over-represented gun crime, to the justice department they refused to acknowledge the error. These statistics were used to sell the firearms act to the public.

The same year the firearms registry was created the Liberals spent 8 times as much money on the gun registry as they did on cancer research????

Shock and AWE Brutus, the Liberals used it very effectively to mislead the everyone on the gun crime issue as well as the effectivness of the registry on controlling gun crime. These measures have done nothing to slow the increase in TO gun crime, because criminals don't follow rules or register guns.
But yes according to the auditor general it is $1 billion dollars in the toilet if that makes you feel better?


From: GTA | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brutus
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posted 03 July 2004 05:37 PM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
RE::Shock and AWE Brutus, the Liberals used it very effectively to mislead the everyone on the gun crime issue as well as the effectivness of the registry on controlling gun crime.

Homicides by gun are the lowest they have been in over 30 years!

Gun control is working!


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Oatmeal Savage
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posted 03 July 2004 05:58 PM      Profile for The Oatmeal Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
For about the millionth time, gun homicides rates were going down before C-68 took effect.
From: top of the food chain | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Brutus
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posted 03 July 2004 06:04 PM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
1995Bill C-68, the strictest gun control legislation in Canadian history, received Senate approval. It not only called for harsher penalties for crimes involving the use of guns and creates the Firearms Act, but it also required gun owners to be licensed and registered. The government said the registry would cost about $119 million, but the revenue generated by registration fees would mean taxpayers would only be picking up a tab for $2 million.

Since this estimate was done there were several times the government waived the fees in an effort to get gun owners to register. Also some gun owners went out of their way in an effort to drive up these costs by doing several things which you can read about on their web site http://www.lufa.ca/ They do not try to hide the fact that they did this. It was called operation overload!

For about the millionth time,gun control works the gun homicides in this coutry are the lowest they've been since rexcords were being kept!

[ 03 July 2004: Message edited by: Brutus ]


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Oatmeal Savage
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posted 03 July 2004 06:13 PM      Profile for The Oatmeal Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
http://www.geocities.com/LiberalGunFarce/questions.html
From: top of the food chain | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Brutus
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posted 03 July 2004 06:17 PM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
Listen Savage been down that road many times posted all the facts there are as many web sites for gun control out there as there are against gun control.

Here is the bottomline. Gun control and the registry is here to stay like it or not those are the facts.

This is my opinion and you have yours I think gun control works and I support it.

OVER AND OUT!


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Oatmeal Savage
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posted 03 July 2004 06:21 PM      Profile for The Oatmeal Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So it's here to stay whether it works or not. Brilliant.
How many of our tax dollars diappeared into your liberal buddies pockets through this fiasco? Is this Adsam 2?

From: top of the food chain | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Northlander
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posted 03 July 2004 08:23 PM      Profile for Northlander        Edit/Delete Post
Brutus, Savage is correct, the homicide rate involving guns had been in decline since the mid 70's. That said, it sure as hell doesn't feel that way if you live in the GTA.
Gun control measures like the registry affect law abiding citizens who work within the system. It fails to deal with criminals who operate outside the system. Which group do you think we should worry about?
It might make people feel better that we have gun control, but they are not stopping criminals one bit. Our courts need to start throwing the book at crimes involving guns...no deals, no pleas, long sentences. Then criminals will think twice before they use guns. We have enough laws, when will the courts start enforcing them.

From: GTA | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 04 July 2004 01:50 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Northlander:

Gun control measures like the registry affect law abiding citizens who work within the system. It fails to deal with criminals who operate outside the system.

Actually, I don't see this. Potentially, it allows you to deal with criminals who operate outside the system by putting them away for weapon possession before they actually cream anyone with the weapon.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 04 July 2004 01:55 AM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Provided of course that the firearm is registered in the first place, which is not to be expected of criminals in the first place.
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Brutus
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posted 04 July 2004 09:47 AM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
RE::It might make people feel better that we have gun control, but they are not stopping criminals one bit.

You know if you'd pull your heads out of the sand and observe what is going on around you maybe you'd see things differently.

For example: We've had several robberies here in Montreal lately. Weapon USED? You'd think gun wouldn't you because you think guns are a dime a dozen out there!

Well the weapon USED was pepper spray my friend! Why pepper spray? Well it couldn't be because they had trouble getting their hands on a gun could it?

No you pro gun types would never admit that as being A REMOTE possibity!!!!


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Northlander
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posted 04 July 2004 11:35 AM      Profile for Northlander        Edit/Delete Post
Brutus if anyone is burrying their head in the sand it is gun control advocates. We have the world's longest undefended border with the world's largest arms dealer and only a fool would believe that a billion dollar domestic registry for legal gun owners is the answer.

Last year a Hamilton teenager ordered an assault rifle from the US and it was shipped directly to his residence. The item was labeled as an aluminum baseball bat and wasn't found until his parents reported the incident to the police. How often does this happen and never gets noticed? What good would the registry or gun control be in these cases?
If people want illegial guns, they WILL get them.

The registry was an enormous waste of a billion dollars that could have been used to fight the criminal element with police, anti-gang forces and border guards.

Sorry Brutus but gangland shootings are almost a daily occurance in TO, so the reductions you credit to gun control are not my reality.


From: GTA | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
thorin_bane
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posted 04 July 2004 12:06 PM      Profile for thorin_bane     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Maybe that is part of the solution. Get the US to start to think about maybe controlling it`s guns would help out the ENTIRE world. The average US citizen doesn`t need it`s gun against a foreign invasion. The do have the LARGEST military in the world(greater than the next 25 combined).
From: Looking at the despair of Detroit from across the river! | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged

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