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Author Topic: Why We Hate Liberals (and/or Paul Martin)...
wei-chi
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posted 21 March 2004 02:29 AM      Profile for wei-chi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
We all have our reasons, how about we list them...
From: Saskatoon | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Brutus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5073

posted 21 March 2004 08:31 AM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
I see your list is long!

We all hate Liberals because of the huge overkill by the media painting "ALL" Liberals as corrupt. Judgement passed no concrete prove.

It's the right wing way "ALL GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE"

The biggest lying myth in this country is that the media is bias toward the Liberals when in fact they are bias toward the CON servatives!


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 21 March 2004 10:33 AM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My main problem with the Liberals is that there aren't many in the party. My problem with Paul Martin is that he's deliberately been driving any progressives out.

This country doesn't need to choose from Martin's new party of the hard right or the new Harper 'Conservative' party of the wacky right.
Thankfully, we're not a two party state.


From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brutus
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posted 21 March 2004 10:57 AM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
You mean the CON servative Party.

CON because they are trying their hardest to CON vince Canadians this is not the old Reform alias Alliance Party!

ARE CANADIANS THAT STUPID! I don't think so!

Why did they choose the CON servative name over the Alliance name for their so called new party IF THEY WEREN'T TRYING TO CON PEOPLE?

THINK ABOUT IT!


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 21 March 2004 01:44 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Because Paul Martin is all about giving everything away to his rich and powerful buddies while making mealy-mouthed commitments to poor people that will never be fulfilled.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
simonvallee
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posted 21 March 2004 03:36 PM      Profile for simonvallee   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Personally, with my political education (and counting the fact that I am only 19 yr-old), I "hate" liberals because

1- They have no vision, they don't know where they are going, they follow the dominant winds, or the current leader. They are everything but a choice, they try to attract the voters who don't have precise ideas about how our country should be, the undecided who vote. They can go from center-left to center-right in a blink of an eye.

2- They are a bunch of corrupt politicians, the like that Félix Leclerc sung about ("La veille des élections, il t'appelait son fiston/ le lendemain, comme de raison/ il avait oublié ton nom." "At the election's eve, he called you sonny/ the day afterwards for some reason/ He had forgotten your name" though it probably applied to the Union Nationale). They are here to get power, then scratch the backs of those who helped get them there with big donations. Maybe some are clean, but most of them seem to me completely corrupt. It's not just because of the recent scandal, for me, the entire Chrétien mandates were one scandal after the other.

The right-wing conservatives I can often respect, because even though they think the opposite of me, they know where they want to go. When you vote for them, you know for what you're voting for. But the liberals... campaign on the left, rule on the right, a little leftward turn before the elections, then laughing at everyone as they turn right after the elections again.

Some of you may remember earlier liberal governments who didn't look like that, but the fact is that I am young, yet have always followed politics. I see the liberals for what they have been for the last 10 years.


From: Boucherville, Québec | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brutus
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posted 21 March 2004 04:43 PM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
RE:: I see the liberals for what they have been for the last 10 years.

A Bloc voter no doubt. How about that Clarity bill eh?


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
simonvallee
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posted 21 March 2004 04:57 PM      Profile for simonvallee   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually, I'm a sovereignist new democrat. As for the Clarity Bill, I'd say what I think of it, but I've realized that my dear anglophone neighbors are quite uncomfortable with swear words. Let's limit my description of it as "the most unclear bill ever passed, which actually gives the Parliament a right to veto the will of a people expressed through a referendum after the vote".
From: Boucherville, Québec | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 30 March 2004 11:01 AM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Because they're not even trying to pretend they're any different than the gawdamned Reformatories:
quote:
Travers skilfully managed to extract a sketchy outline of Martin's latest vision. It has to do with federal-provincial relations and, as far as I can tell, is remarkably similar in its broad strokes to Conservative Leader Stephen Harper's recipe.

Like Harper, Martin is prepared to cut back Ottawa's taxing power so that the provinces can levy more themselves. Unfortunately, this has the smell of the old tax point scam that almost crippled medicare under Brian Mulroney, whereby Ottawa defined its contribution to national social programs in large part by the taxes it was not levying.


Critics pointed out that handing over so-called tax points to the provinces was not the same as giving them cash.

In particular, this strategy severely limited Ottawa's ability to enforce the Canada Health Act, the law governing medicare. It's possible for the federal government to cut back an annual cash transfer to provinces that aren't living up to the principles of medicare.

But a transfer of taxing room is irreversible; Ottawa can't take it back. All of which is fine for a Stephen Harper. He thinks Ottawa should be out of the business of policing medicare altogether. I'm a little surprised that it's fine for the Liberals. But perhaps Martin hasn't thought through this particular element of Camelot.

Like Harper, Martin is also apparently prepared to rejig the equalization formula whereby rich provinces (read Alberta, Ontario and sometimes British Columbia) subsidize the others.

Talk of equalization makes most readers nod off. But it's desperately important in places like New Brunswick, where this transfer allows poorer provincial governments to provide fundamental services.



Thomas Walkom in the Star

- Edited because the UBB button for URLs no longer seems to work -

[ 30 March 2004: Message edited by: Lard tunderin' jeesus ]


From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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posted 30 March 2004 11:41 AM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There's a tendency for sovereigntist and social democrats in Quebec to be more sympathetic to the right than to the centre. Now that I think about it, I don't really blame them.
From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brutus
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posted 30 March 2004 03:29 PM      Profile for Brutus        Edit/Delete Post
RE:: Because Paul Martin is all about giving everything away to his rich and powerful buddies while making mealy-mouthed commitments to poor people that will never be fulfilled.

Like the billion he just gave to the beef farmers to help them out? I think the beef farmers would not only argue they are not Paul's buddies but they would also insist they are not rich either.

Hey I'm no Paul Martin fan but give some credit where credit is due!


From: Montreal | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Screaming Lord Byron
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posted 30 March 2004 03:35 PM      Profile for Screaming Lord Byron     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I pity Martin. He's a tragic figure.
Just as the dream he has worked for all his life, the dream his father could not achieve, everything falls apart.

As everyone says, Martin is to Chretien as Velcro is to Teflon.

Nah, I don't really pity him. He'll be well rewarded regardless.


From: Calgary | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 30 March 2004 03:45 PM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I tend to agree with simonvallee. Where is the Liberal "vision"?? Or more precisely, where is Martin's vision?

I can understand why Layton and Harper are running. They are inspired to bring change to Canada, but Martin?

I don't understand how someone can get "inspired" to go after a position that puts him in the position to continue doing the "same old thing"!?

He's not in it for the money, he's not in it to make changes . . . what is he in it for??

Is it for the power? For the International deplomacy lifestyle?

I get very suspicious of people who fight for positions of power with no obvious motive for doing so.


From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
wei-chi
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posted 30 March 2004 06:31 PM      Profile for wei-chi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What's a "sovereignist new democrat"? Someone who wants the NDP to leave Canada?
From: Saskatoon | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
simonvallee
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posted 30 March 2004 10:01 PM      Profile for simonvallee   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Is your post completely a joke, or is it a serious question, wei-chi?

In any case, I'm a québécois sovereignist, AKA separatist, secessionist, Canada's boogeyman, the monster under your bed, whatever... But I believe until such a time as Québec becomes sovereign, I must work with other Canadians who have the same social-economic outlook on things, ie social-democrats.

quote:
There's a tendency for sovereigntist and social democrats in Quebec to be more sympathetic to the right than to the centre. Now that I think about it, I don't really blame them.

You mean with the conservatives, the ancient PCP? I agree there was a "beau risque" and that the sovereignists and social-democrats here (mostly the same crowd) joined them for a while, mostly because they promised decentralization and recognition of Québec as a nation, with revision of the Constitution. But the true right-wing like the Canadian Alliance didn't work very well here.


From: Boucherville, Québec | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sean in Ottawa
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posted 30 March 2004 10:08 PM      Profile for Sean in Ottawa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This thread appears to be a shameless attempt at creating the most popular thread.

Okay, I bite.

Here is my reason.

I have met a lot of people in politics. I met a former Liberal staffer. I asked her why she got into politics. Her answer?

"I am interested in power and how it works."

There you have it: Liberal values and principles wrapped up into one tidy comment.

By the way I am interested in politics because I believe in Justice and that we need government to play an important role in our lives including counter-balance a corporate agenda. Why do Liberals get interested in politics? To get elected. Why do they stay in politics? To stay elected. How do you predict Liberal policy? Ask a pollster.


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
leftcoastguy
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posted 30 March 2004 10:42 PM      Profile for leftcoastguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Is there a difference between the Liberals and the Conservatives? Not that I am aware of.

My frustation with these right wing parties is that their policies are creating too many poor people, including working poor, in Canada.

The tax loopholes that the rich have created to keep themselves rich are very often hidden from the general public, which is why I am against governemnt secrecy, except for things such as personal medical records, and national security, etc.

Basically these right wing parties are in power to make sure the rich stay rich.


From: leftcoast | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Oatmeal Savage
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posted 30 March 2004 11:37 PM      Profile for The Oatmeal Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why not provide some tax relief for 2.1 million poor people in Canada? Here's an idea from those heartless CTF'ers.

http://www.taxpayer.com/newsreleases/federal/October23-03.htm


From: top of the food chain | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged

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